We all know what it is (at least generally) and it gearing up for a serial production
The NGOs are preparing engineering capacity for "object 4202"
According to the report, procurement status - "taken".
The media "object 4202" referred to as hypersonic aircraft, the development of which is engineering the NGO.
It holds a competition for the reconstruction of the production base of "Military-Industrial Corporation" NPO Machine Building "(Reutov, Moscow region), designed to establish mass production of" Order 4202 ", according to Interfax-AVN citing a statement posted on the public procurement website.
Yu-71 project - Basically a mesosphere hypersonic Glider/bomber ,what exactly i was saying Russia needs to really push forward ,but others were saying ,how a subsonic pak-da was "good enough" to do the job.
(spanish) but will be translated, very good website. http://katehon.com/es/article/rusia-desmantela-el-mito-de-la-invencibilidad-naval-americana
Russia dominating space ,is the key for Russia to totally dominating any future war vs Americans and its NATO most loyal puppets. Either conventional or Nuclear. And it will be the ultimate deterrence ,the ability of Russia to hit any US navy battleship formation in the atlantic from above the skies and a bomber they cannot intercept. For reasons that Aegis system cannot target anything at the altitudes of ~50km where Iskander also fly. NATO defenses like patriot can target things at up 35km using some customized missiles they were testing not in service yet ,or at 80km altitude to up using SM-3 but nothing to counter between 40km to 70km.. Combat planes for comparisons ceiling is usually 15km altitude, SR-71 which had the records of sustained high altitude fly at 23km. So there is a level in the atmosphere where no NATO plane or missile can effectively operate or intercept anything , and Russia can exploit to its advantage. Why i think this YU-71 project is a monumental step in the right direction for Russia deterrence capabilities. But in the end the ultimate goal for Russia should be to create bombers ,that can enter United States with impunity at mesosphere altitudes fly over the white house ,peacefully without being stopped take a photo of it ,and return ,and later show it up in the media. Same with any US navy battle group. to fly with impunity over any battlegroup or any world airspace will be the ultimate deterrence ,because it means Russia will be able to bomb that place with lethal precision with a conventional bomb or nuclear one. if it can fly over it and without being intercepted. Americans did it for a small time , with the black bird , that flew over small parts of Russia ,So Russia needs a deterrence like that ,a real game changer , that will scare the shit of any nation ,if Russian bombers could easily fly over their heads .A weapon like that will force US/NATO to sign a new treaty and remove their ABM system from Europe .
Update .. more of Yu-71
Have been tested 4 times already according to the report,and it turn its engines to fly up and turn off them to glide down while flying in the mesosphere, making it very complex for any Aegis system to calculate its fly path and interception path ,because its engines will be only used to fly up and in zig-zag apparently. Looks really interesting the project. and apparently about 24x of them will be build and operating in 2020.
spanish.. http://katehon.com/ru/node/30355
using google translate..
Other means of hypersonic combat that Russia is testing now the Yu-71 (Project 4202) Space Glider, which between 2013 and 2016 was released 4 times from the Baikonur Dombarovsky, using the first stage of an ICBM UR-100. At an altitude of 70 km, the rocket begins to apply corrections spatial planning in horizontal path that gives a cruising speed of between 11,200 and 12,500 km / h, and then the separation is performed. All flight distance of 5,500 km spatial planning was exceeded in 16 minutes. Unlike the heads of ballistic missiles, space planning Yu-71 can maneuver your flight is one of the variables that can not be calculated by computers ballistic shields centers of American leadership. Starting from 2020, Russia will have 24 Yu-71 strategic nuclear base Dombarovsky.
This image is not in any way associated with Pr_4202. Its the old Spiral spaceplane concept from the 1970s. Specifically, its the manned supersonic high-altitude "mothership" tasked with carrying the ascent rocket stack and its manned spaceplane payload to its launch altitude/speed.
Well duh... as I told you several times... Russia does not need some death glider to murder people anywhere on the globe within 90 minutes... that is Americas wet dream.
Russia just wants to ensure MAD through making sure if they launch an ICBM attack on anyone those warheads will hit their targets.
GarryB wrote:Well duh... as I told you several times... Russia does not need some death glider to murder people anywhere on the globe within 90 minutes... that is Americas wet dream.
Russia just wants to ensure MAD through making sure if they launch an ICBM attack on anyone those warheads will hit their targets.
But timing is e v e r y t h i n g. in a war with NATO. If Russia for example get intelligence through several channels , several Governments and intelligences ,that Americans are preparing for a first nuclear strike in Russia , and that war is inevitable . Then Russia will like to have the option to do the FIRST strike first. Because a well timed first strike can make a huge difference. ie.. You can decapitate the leadership of an Enemy nation and create a major division ,coup ,civil war ,if you have for example Support inside the country and they ask you for help to get rid of their leader..
So the Sarmat Missile is only a revenge nuclear weapon. While a Nuclear Mesosphere Bomber carrying hypersonic missiles ,is even more deadlier ,because it can do a very first nuclear tactical strike withing 5 minutes. and take advantage of the enemy leadership being located and a bomber being in the right place to attack.
So with the Strike near space bomber , Russia can do normal patrols , every week around US east coast , withing 200km distance of washington DC.. The very fact of the Bomber being so close there , flying in international waters , but still can attack without warning and bomb the WHite House withing 2-3 minutes of an order Given.. Will Put an enourmous Pressure on the Americans to go to the negotiating table for removing any military base near Russia borders..
The Mesosphere nuclear armed bomber will be similar as to traveling with your car every week armed with a Kornet missile ,to the front of the house of your enemy ,every week. and you are going to scare the shit of that enemy ,because he knows ,he have NO CHANCE to survive ,if you pull the trigger ,he will be dust.
But with the traditional Intercontinental ballistic missile ,because Russia is surrounded with NATO bases with NATO RADARS scanning any nuclear launch, as soon a Sarmat missile launched from any part of Russia , then Russian enemies will know it with an hour of time in advance. and will allow the leaders of that country to hide in a bunker deep underground. and even if you missile hits the target ,it will fail to decapitate the government.
So there is a HUGE difference here.. in the two scenarios. Because with one scenario ,if your intelligence is correct , and you know where all the leadership is located of any nation ,you can launch a couple of dozen of surprise air to ground missiles ,to kill the entire leadership of a nation. And the confusion that will create your decapitation attack , will not allow them to do anything against you ,because they will not have the nuclear codes , neither the authorization to retaliate ,and neither they will know what happened until half an hour later , they detect the Russian missiles. You can say it was an "ISIS attack" . and you will earn valuable time to start a major revolution in that nation. If you have for example internal support.
If Russia develops Sarmat..it will be increase the deterrence of Russia for sure, missiles that cannot be intercepted in a revenge attack. but it will not stop Americans from its aggression to Russia. Russia will never be able to decapitate the leadership of US with sarmats missiles ,since they will always have a nice hour of knowledge before the Missile hit. enough time for US leaders to move to bunkers and retaliate.. see?
But with a mesosphere bomber armed with conventional or nuclear warhead ,flying withing 200km of US east coast. It will be literary aiming at the face of another nation leader with a gun. and they knowing they have no chance to survive the attack if the bomber is ordered to attack. See the difference?
This is why intercontinental Long range ballistic missiles are not enough deterrence.
Your assumption Gary is always the same , that the American leadership will never dare to go to a war with Russia because many millions civilians will die. bla bla bla..
But thats because you dont understand the maniac mentality of some of the American leadership. This is the kind of people that provide Weapons today to ISIS and Alqaeda and later can smile and make jokes about it , like Obama does ,and do not care if millions are slaugthered in Syria if Alqaeda over Run them. This is the kind of people that crash civilian planes ,in their own cities , killing 3,000 americans ,to justify later endless wars in middle east to kill millions. This is the kind of people that have been exposed in public that are Satanic and that feel admiration for a lunatic philosopher who wrote a book , a manual of how to destroy Society.
You are underestimating Gary the level of evilness that exist in the American Government. in some factions there. That some of them even consider acceptable the killing of 60 million of Americans if in the end America wins a nuclear war with Russia.
If Russia had a mesosphere bomber already , that can not be shot down by conventional weapons ,neither intercepted for being to high for combat jets and too low for Aegis defenses. The Russia will have a first strike decapitation of Government weapon. that will completely scare the shit of Any NATO government ,knowing that in less than 3 minutes , Russia can launch a missile that will wipe them and with visual contact of the target. Such a bomber will force Americans to go to the negotiating table , and remove their ABM system from Europe. and any nuclear weapon too from there. but also Stop military exercises near Russian borders.
With internal help of enemy country + a mesosphere bomber, Russia could very easily decapitate a government in a few shots and create a very fast coup there. With the sarmat missile you cant do that.
With a mesosphere bomber , Russia can declare war only against the leaders of a country. and only targeting them. you can kill just a couple of dozen of people and with conventional weapons and still provoke a coup. With a Sarmat , you cannot declare war only against a nation leaders. because their explossion will target millions.. See this? Huge difference.
If for example the ratings and popularity of a NATO leader (like Erdogan) goes to at all time low , with only 10% of the population supporting him. Then with the right connections inside Turkey government , Russia can coordinate a coup to decapitate all the top leaders in Turkey and erdogan using very small personal bombs. that will only target a dozen of people and after that , get your friendly factions in power.
. A mesosphere bomber in decent numbers , 20-30 , will be the most lethal ,most powerful game changing weapon of at times , and could be used to decapitate governments , to shut down enemies satelites very easily and cost effective ,but also could be used to defeat the NATO navies ,by flying above their heads , with their incapability to target at all your bombers. such a bomber will put NATO into a very serious disadvantage in a fight against Russia. Russia will be able to fly above the airpsace of 99% of the nations of the world or even 100% for a small time in a surprise attack. even if the bomber shutdown with a nuclear weapon , it will be too late ,since it will be able to decapitate any government first, or hit any NATO nuclear submarine facility.
Mesosphere bomber will have Line of Sight view of your intended target ,so it will be a visual attack ,guided by lazer and it will be away of 99% of any nation system of defenses. and only could be shutdown with nukes or perhaps rail guns or other lazers. Still with counter electronics and stealth Russia will still have a chance to hide its plane. Long range hypersonic cruise missiles like zircon could be jammed and miss its intended target. Simply a Mesosphere bomber is the ultimate weapon for Russia to make. it will not replace Sarmat.. but it will actually help to avoid a nuclear war. if used correctly.
The Head of the US Strategic Command argued at the Space and Missile Defense Symposium that American anti-missile, anti-aircraft defense systems are unable to intercept Russian hypersonic aircraft and called for advances in the country’s military to respond to the potential threat.
The threat of Russian hypersonic glide vehicles, aircraft reportedly armed with ICBMs that can penetrate even America’s elite anti-missile defense apparatus, has US defense officials ushering a call for a renaissance in America’s military to upgrade systems to counter the potential threats of tomorrow.
Speaking at the Space and Missile Defense Symposium, Adm. Cecil Haney, the commander of US Strategic Command (STRATCOM) focused in on this perceived military challenge.
"Hyper-glide vehicle research and development are also challenging our planning," said Adm. Haney. "The ability to find, fix and track and hold… these types of capabilities are becoming increasingly more difficult. Hyper-glide vehicle technology can complicate our sensing and our defensive approaches.'
According to weapons industry publication Defense News, "the threat [of hypersonic glide vehicles] came up in almost every speech from the Missile Defense Agency director to the Army’s acquisition chief to the US Strategic Command commander over the course of the first two days of the show."
The commentary follows announcements that Russia has successfully tested a Mach 10 (7,680 MPH or 12,360kmh) hypersonic glide vehicle with a report last week that the system may soon be "ready for action" leading the United States to perceive a growing capability gap vis-à-vis Moscow in the area of avionics. Defense industry insiders have seized on the perceived Russian threat to encourage investors that the US defense and weapons industry remains a growth sector while career military leaders are using it as a clarion call to increase American defense appropriations.
Moscow is not alone in its pursuit of hypersonic weapons although the growing fear of Russia stoked by the rhetoric of the 2016 presidential election has helped to create a sense of urgency with leaders and industry insiders focused on the Kremlin.
“Russian press claims Russia successfully tested a hypersonic vehicle on an SS-19 intercontinental ballistic missile in April this year,” said Mark Clark, the director of the Missiles and Space Intelligence Center seizing on the growing Cold War sentiment among Beltway insiders that Moscow poses a threat.
The US, China, and India are also pursuing projects for comparable vehicles, but much remains unknown about the progress of those other efforts to develop and utilize the new-age weaponry.
The threat of Russian hypersonic glide vehicles, aircraft reportedly armed with ICBMs that can penetrate even America’s elite anti-missile defense apparatus, has US defense officials ushering a call for a renaissance in America’s military to upgrade systems to counter the potential threats of tomorrow.
Pfftt... what exactly are these "elite" defense systems? Yankistani ABM systems are unable to defend against even a modest ICBM attack. It all a case of typical US smoke & windows, bluff and bullshit.
Typical Yankee BS... they have it so we need it...
Of course as I mentioned quite a few times the Russians will use this to ensure their nuclear attack gets past any nuclear ABM shield, whereas the US sees this as an extension of their murder drone fleet.
Their victims should feel honoured to be slaughtered by the greatest democracy the world has ever seen...
So the Sarmat Missile is only a revenge nuclear weapon. While a Nuclear Mesosphere Bomber carrying hypersonic missiles ,is even more deadlier ,because it can do a very first nuclear tactical strike withing 5 minutes. and take advantage of the enemy leadership being located and a bomber being in the right place to attack.
You just don't get it.
Sarmat with hypersonic penetrators is not a revenge weapon... a revenge weapon is a 2 billion Terraton nuclear device that no one knows about but will detonate and split the planet in two if Russia gets invaded or overrun by anyone.
Sarmat armed with a hypersonic terminal glider that can penetrate any ABM defence is mutually assured destruction... it is an assurance to the west in general and the US that no matter how sneaky you might be, not matter how successful your first attacks are Russia is going to level your main cities and kill a large portion of your population and make life living for most people on this planet unbearable.
This is so much better than a revenge weapon... a revenge weapon gives you confidence, but this system means the west will know their ABM system wont work and any Russian retaliation will destroy them so they wont be tempted to try a fight they think they might be able to win... they will know they can't.
Prevention of war is much more valuable than the perception that you might actually be able to win it.
Last edited by GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total
GarryB wrote:a revenge weapon is a 2 billion Terraton nuclear device that no one knows about but will detonate and split the planet in two if Russia gets invaded or overrun by anyone.
I surely hope such a device exists! I'd rather blow up the entire planet than be enslaved by either NATO or Izlam
The threat of Russian hypersonic glide vehicles, aircraft reportedly armed with ICBMs that can penetrate even America’s elite anti-missile defense apparatus, has US defense officials ushering a call for a renaissance in America’s military to upgrade systems to counter the potential threats of tomorrow.
Pfftt... what exactly are these "elite" defense systems? Yankistani ABM systems are unable to defend against even a modest ICBM attack. It all a case of typical US smoke & windows, bluff and bullshit.
But the problem is the US retard deciders who think that their wunderwaffe ABM gives them nuclear supremacy so they act like Russia has no nuclear weapons and can be pushed around. These retards are seriously risking a nuclear war due to their delusions. It is useful for some US admiral to make some noises that Russian technology is not mud hut level and can overcome the wunderwaffe ABM. But whether the retard deciders are listening is not clear.
Sarmat with hypersonic penetrators is not a revenge weapon... a revenge weapon is a 2 billion Terraton nuclear device that no one knows about but will detonate and split the planet in two if Russia gets invaded or overrun by anyone.
Sarmat armed with a hypersonic terminal glider that can penetrate any ABM defence is mutually assured destruction... it is an assurance to the west in general and the US that no matter how sneaky you might be, not matter how successful your first attacks are Russia is going to level your main cities and kill a large portion of your population and make life living for most people on this planet unbearable.
This is so much better than a revenge weapon... a revenge weapon gives you confidence, but this system means the west will know their ABM system wont work and any Russian retaliation will destroy them so they wont be tempted to try a fight they think they might be able to win... they will know they can't.
Prevention of war is much more valuable than the perception that you might actually be able to win it.
I think you are the one that don't get it.. Lets see. You cannot use the Sarmat missile for a surprise attack on United States. you simply you can't.. it will be launched from Russia territory all the way to America that will be a huge distance to cover ,about 30 minutes of time to hit washtinton DC , and americans will detect its launch as soon it take off. Because their satellites track every movement of Russia mobile launchers , so you can't hide in Russia a missile launch from american early warning radars and then you have the international space station that will also detect a sarmat attack easily ,with plain eye sight , astronauts will see the launch of any nuclear ballistic missile from Russia. So will Sarmat evade Americans defenses.. ? possibly. But can it do a surprise attack on United States..? Not at all. if Sarmat launched from Moscow , It will give at least 20 to 30 minutes warning for the entire US government to move to bunkers and be 100% safe ,from the sarmat attack.
A first strike weapon in the other hand is an attack that caught you by surprise ,that you do not see it coming.. see? So this can't be done by a Sarmat. for a real first strike weapon , you need a Bomber that will frequently patrol USA eastern Coast... (ideally) ,Russian old bombers who are almost always intercepted still can be deadly and they are ideal for first strike nuclear attacks.. why is that? Because Americans will not know the content inside of the planes.. whether they are armed with nukes or not see?
So if Russia patrols American coast ,while staying in international airspace, lets say a couple of days every week ,that that will keep them worried ,because Russia will be able to launch a nuclear missile ,strike withing 3-5 minutes at Washinton leadership and decapitate it. If Russia have good internal knowledge that is ,of where are they in real time. not a major problem.
The advantage with a mesosphere first strike bomber .. is that not only Russia will have a chance of a first strike in 2,3 or 5 minutes. but that also that the planes will not be intercepted at all. Because fly to high. Oh lets imagine Americans develop a missile to intercept a bomber in the mesosphere.. it will not really matter. Because You cannot shot down a place in international airspace if it have done nothing wrong. see?
A mesosphere bomber will allow Russia , not only to be Fully READY for a surprise attack withing very close distance. but also it will allow the bomber to hit and run away too as escape ,so not sacrificing the lives of the pilots ,neither the plane.. contrary to Russia older bombers that are withing strike distance of any American planes that is escorting it.
Each one have its important Role.. Sarmat is for a major retaliation attack..and a Mesosphere bomber if developed ,it will be incredibly useful for Russia ,to do a first strike attack on US in case they feel war is inevitable and that they will be unable to avoid it.. in such cases , it will be far better to do the first strike ,decapitate the leadership not aware of the danger ,than to allow your enemies to hide in bunkers.
a Submarine with tactical cruise missiles could do the same ,but the problem is the distance , and that submarines can be hunted cased by warships or other submarines.. while a mesosphere bomber cannot be hunted. Simply NATO do not have any plane that can intercept a Bomber flying in the mesosphere.
UR-100NUTTH launch from Dombarovskiy, most likely with Project 4202 payload
On October 25 2016 the Strategic Rocket Forces carried out a successful test launch of an UR-100NUTTH/SS-19 missile from the Dombarovskiy basing area. The missile was launched at 11:58 MSK (08:58 UTC). According to a ministry of defense representative, the payload was "successfully delivered" to the Kura test site in Kamchatka.
This is probably another test of the Project 4202 hypersonic vehicle, similar to that conducted in April 2016.
You cannot use the Sarmat missile for a surprise attack on United States. you simply you can't.. it will be launched from Russia territory all the way to America that will be a huge distance to cover ,about 30 minutes of time to hit washtinton DC , and americans will detect its launch as soon it take off. Because their satellites track every movement of Russia mobile launchers , so you can't hide in Russia a missile launch from american early warning radars and then you have the international space station that will also detect a sarmat attack easily ,with plain eye sight , astronauts will see the launch of any nuclear ballistic missile from Russia. So will Sarmat evade Americans defenses.. ? possibly. But can it do a surprise attack on United States..? Not at all. if Sarmat launched from Moscow , It will give at least 20 to 30 minutes warning for the entire US government to move to bunkers and be 100% safe ,from the sarmat attack.
WTF are you dribbling about Vann?
Why does Russia need a surprise attack weapon?
A first strike weapon in the other hand is an attack that caught you by surprise ,that you do not see it coming.. see? So this can't be done by a Sarmat. for a real first strike weapon , you need a Bomber that will frequently patrol USA eastern Coast... (ideally) ,Russian old bombers who are almost always intercepted still can be deadly and they are ideal for first strike nuclear attacks.. why is that? Because Americans will not know the content inside of the planes.. whether they are armed with nukes or not see?
No I don't see.
Bombers are pathetic first strike weapons... it is expensive to keep them on station all the time and they are vastly slower than any ICBM or SLBM.
Who cares if the US government survives a third world war... Russia can screw the US over twice by destroying their cities and not killing their government.
So if Russia patrols American coast ,while staying in international airspace, lets say a couple of days every week ,that that will keep them worried ,because Russia will be able to launch a nuclear missile ,strike withing 3-5 minutes at Washinton leadership and decapitate it. If Russia have good internal knowledge that is ,of where are they in real time. not a major problem.
Don't be a dick Vann... who gives a fuck if the US leadership is alive of dead... after all the mushroom clouds go up that is not Russias problem. If the first strike does not take out all of Americas ability to fight a nuclear war then there is no point in a first strike.
Killing all the US government means nothing when all their ICBMs and SLBMs launch anyway.... it makes no difference if they are launched by looney Hilary or by automatic launch system activated when the wicked witch of the west is vapourised.
The advantage with a mesosphere first strike bomber .. is that not only Russia will have a chance of a first strike in 2,3 or 5 minutes. but that also that the planes will not be intercepted at all. Because fly to high. Oh lets imagine Americans develop a missile to intercept a bomber in the mesosphere.. it will not really matter. Because You cannot shot down a place in international airspace if it have done nothing wrong. see?
Ohh piss off... there is no way Russia could develop a hypersonic bomber that can spend monday to friday cruising the US coasts all day every day and then at a moments notice deliver a nuclear first strike that takes out all SSBNs and ICBM fields in one stroke. That is just bullshit.
The cost in fuel alone would bankrupt any rich country.
The altitude and speed these planes would have to operate at would make them easy game for any ABM system too. If the S-500 can intercept objects travelling at 7km/s do you think they could not intercept such bombers?
a Submarine with tactical cruise missiles could do the same ,but the problem is the distance , and that submarines can be hunted cased by warships or other submarines.. while a mesosphere bomber cannot be hunted. Simply NATO do not have any plane that can intercept a Bomber flying in the mesosphere.
Geez Vann, I have told you before... look at history... WWI bombers could easily be intercepted by WWI fighters. WWII bombers could be easily intercepted by WWII fighters. WWIII bombers will be easily intercepted by WWIII fighters.
Any engine you put in a super dooper magic bomber you can put in a fighter and make it faster...
If you want a first strike build a reentry cone of ablative material that self stabilises in the air in free fall that is about 20kgs in weight with a 2KT warhead inside it and then put 10 tons of those warheads inside a Sarmat missile and launch it south to fly over the south pole... 6,000km short of the US airspace release the cloud of 10 tons of nuclear bombs that spread in a circular pattern and deliver thousands of small ground burst nuclear explosions to cover the US from coast to coast... that will pretty much disable most communications and logistics and then launch your main attack of ICBMs and SLBMs and send your slow ass bombers... nuclear explosions will be going off for days. Even if they have 100 ABM missiles it wont help...
Russia reportedly tests nuclear-capable hypersonic glider warhead
That shows their goals and desires.
America wants a bomber it can use to destroy targets or kill people anywhere on earth within about 60 minutes... in other words they want to be able to see threats in real time and kill them before they can move position.
Russia wants a hypersonic glider warhead that can evade an ABM defence network... in other words they want their nuclear deterrent to work to deter a nuclear conflict.
America wants to be able to execute people in hours on demand... no jury, no judge... just execution... we have seen with their snipers just picking up wiring or ammo in a public place is grounds for immediate execution... with their drones wearing certain clothes or driving a specific type of vehicle is enough to justify a Hellfire from 10,000m up... imagine what they will do with a hypersonic bomber... of course no bomber can outrun a missile so they still wont be safe but they will be able to murder who they want when they want...
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