I rearranged your post so I can answer more elegantly, hope you don't mind.
First, I am neither praising nor criticizing this ship because nobody really knows what it will contain. Just look at early images and specs for Karakurt and then compare it to what is actually built. Quite a few improvements.
So I will need to see this thing first before making a proper opinion.
miroslav wrote:....
He is mostly right on all the points (my look on it as well).
1. The anti ship weapons system is not adequate for a ship of that size (frigate), maybe for an 65 - 80 m corvette/FAC but not for an 105-110 m frigate, especially considering the idea that all combat ships should have a UKSK launcher (that was the whole point from the beginning).
5. It has to chose between a Helicopter and a 4 long range missile container carrier, THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE AND OUTRIGHT IDIOTIC, without a helicopter it cant carry out effective anti submarine operation, and with just 4 long range missile of the Kalibr family it cant do much offensively, THIS IS THE REASON IT SHOULD HAVE HAD A REAL UKSK LAUNCHER IN THE FIRST PLACE, then most other problems would not mater.
2. Modular design -> not at the expense of main fire power and lets not forget that Russia NEEDS COMBAT SHIPS, meaning ships that can sink other ships, escort convoys etc. Russia does not have the means or the resources to waste them on stuff that cant to the basic tasks effectively.....
Main purpose of Russian surface navy is to go after enemy subs. They will never be able to stand up to surface navy the size of American one and they know it.
Helicopter is main armament here, not guns or missiles because helicopter is most effective anti-sub tool.
And they did say that later ships will be getting UKSK. Which leads me to next point:
miroslav wrote:.....
4. A single Pantsir (or equivalent) module would be better that 2 AK630, but it is still OK that it has an artillery based CIWS, if it turns out that it will have only one AK630, than it's SHIT in that way as well.....
Like I said at the begining we don't know what final product will look like and even more importantly, we don't know what next hull will have because they have proven history of making changes to serial ships:
Steregushi went from having Kashtan on first ship to Redut AA on all others.
Karakurt went from having AK630 on first two to Pantsir on third one.
Two new Molonyas were totally redesigned without even a peep in the news.
miroslav wrote:
Perceived positives:
1. It has a many new technologies -> long testing phase with not that many bangs for the given bucks as the Muricans would say....
They need to start putting new stuff somewhere at some point. Probably why Steregushi and Gremashi are still built in parallel to this one. But time marches on.
Probably reason for light armament on first one, too much new stuff at once can be problematic.
miroslav wrote:...
2. Increase from 12 to 16 SAM missile is not much (compared to the basic 20380).
3. It has a 76 mm main gun not a 100 mm one.....
Guns are glorified decorations at this point unless we are talking about 120mm or larger ones because that is something that can use more advanced guided munitions.
Trimming down the gun in order to fit more AA missiles is excellent decision in my book.
miroslav wrote:
4. More endurance -> useless if it's not coupled with adequate main fire power.
This is actually really important because Russian Navy needs more long range ships since majority of newly built ones are short range.
miroslav wrote:....
Conclusion: The 20385 and ESPECIALLY THE 11356 are far better ships, able to do the main tasks far more efficiently.
11356 is larger but not exactly better ship. It only has one UKSK system which is really light for vessel of that size and it relies on torpedoes for anti-sub work instead of missiles. Also 24 Shtil missiles is inferior to 16 Redut missiles especially for ship this big. Sonar and radars are not top shelf models either.
20385 has good armament but it is simply overstuffed. Original 20380 had Kashtan which was replaced with Redut. That took up lots of internal space. And then when they added UKSK and moved Redut in the back they probably erased any internal space still available. This had to have downsides.
Long story short: wait and see. We still don't know what will this ship be like. I'll form opinion later.
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