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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:57 am

    Honestly I hope for the best but I don't hold out for any negotiations with either the US/EU or this Ukrainian government succeeding. They will never accept anything more than their own total victory.

    Odessa can open a 2nd front. If they do, they can be supplied by Pridnestrovie.
    After that - the Junta will definately be in serious danger.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:41 am

    It looks like the US made plans for Central and Eastern Europe. Here you go:
    Looks like "F##@ the EU" Nuland, went full retard and spat out some of the most putrid garbage that i have read since FP posted that Washington post article, on top of that she spilled the beans on the U.S objectives in central and eastern Europe.  Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:49 am

    flamming_python wrote:Honestly I hope for the best but I don't hold out for any negotiations with either the US/EU or this Ukrainian government succeeding. They will never accept anything more than their own total victory.

    Odessa can open a 2nd front. If they do, they can be supplied by Pridnestrovie.
    After that - the Junta will definately be in serious danger.


    I really do not see any hope for any progress beyond what they have already achieved. With police being moved from western Ukraine to the east blocking movements and Russia negotiations to "descalate" things.. looks like Russia have halted the advance of their own supporters. If i was there will get the armed special forces Pro Russia militants to remove the neo nazi police from creating checkpoints
    ,to arrest them and transport them outside their territories. Is they allow neonazi police to set up checkpoints inside their zone then they have no chance to do any progress and instead their pro russian activist will be arrested by them before they go to the protest.

    Now Kiev liberate a few prisoners and will say that they did their part.. and that referendum in may with elecitons.   I neither understand Russia negotiations with Syria of shared power.  They at least took crimea but don't see any progress with the uprising in the east.

    The most important places for Russia TO capture is Odessa in my opinion and all Southern Ukraine. that will land lock ukraine ,block any access of NATO near Crimea Territory and will allow Russia to supply from the coast Odessa. The major issue in all this is that Russia do not have the economy to annex any other territory ,and there is no total support like in the east for Russia. The anti maidan revolution needs to grow significantly or will die.. without people participation i dont see much happening.

    In my opinion the ukraine issue is a near total failure of Putin.. They got Crimea..but still will end with NATO withing 100km of their naval base in sevastopol and have many warships with nuclear weapons in odessa.. Putin should have sent to Ukraine when yakunovych was in power undercover strong Russia police to help counter the organized Protest.. send water cannons ,sounds guns.. and arrest arrest and arrest even 100,000 arrested IF neccessary to save the nation from the mess that is now and refuse to negotiate , or release anyone.. even if that means losing yakunovych next elections. Also could have hired strong wrestlers to act as Pro Yakunovych protesters in kiev..and fight directly with the neo nazis throwing stones or bricks back to them. simply so many things Putin could have done to avoid  a world war 3 like tensions...but he preffered to be politically correct..while NATO was playing games.

    IF Russia don't manage to increase by 300% the level of participation in protest ,he then should be thinking to move the capital of Moscow to siberia ,that will neutralize any advantage of having NATO bases in Ukraine.and forcing NATO to lose interest on ukraine and once the country collapse its economy as it will , people will be begging Russia ,including the pro EU to take them back. Also they will need to move or make new ones Naval construction facilities for submarines in the Far east. COntrary to western border of Russia.. Russia have no potential enemies in the far east that could attack Russia in a surprise strike aside of Japan..but the having so small Island.. that even 1 nuke will wipe it completely ,the chances they will allow to be used in the front line of a nuclear interchange with RUssia are zero. So Russia needs to move its capital to Siberia and its war industries to the far east. That will give RUssia a lot of piece of mind knowing they will have plenty of time to counter any attack on their capital or to move to a bunker if defenses fails and no surprise attack will be possible.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:32 am; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:50 am

    Obama and Kerry being called out for their lies, and stupidity:



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    Post  Vann7 Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:27 am



    just carefull with Democracy Now.. is an american "Independent" media.. what is called
    a part time CIA asset. They will spread Bullshit at times.. For a real independent and behind the scenes media
    of any conflict ,look for Tarpley.net
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:07 am

    ^^^I know, I just wanted to point out that interview:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 BlhiioPCMAAPStd



    Ukraine's good ole (and newly formed) National Guard's work in Melitopol:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 BlcA2E4CEAAZlY-
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    Post  gaurav Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:13 am


    I don't remember to hear such strong words in the last 25 years. Obviously they'll do anything to contain Russia's influence in the Balkans albeit some countries aren't even NATO members!
    This article is aclear proof...
    Yes the heat is piling on that Bummer administration because they realize that they cannot do anything.
    Obama is paying a heavy price for doing all these antics.




    Across the board, Russia has found itself isolated
    Most of the countries have supported Russia on Ukraine.

    India and China have supported Russia. Obama ratings are now close to 15%..
    Russ crisis is taking a toll  on everyone in presidential race from clinton .. to
    neo cons..
    Clinton to tymo .. neo cons all speak just out of sheer frustration.



    Thanks for FP for giving the latest on Ukraine
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:54 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:^^^I know, I just wanted to point out that interview:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 BlhiioPCMAAPStd



    Ukraine's good ole (and newly formed) National Guard's work in Melitopol:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 BlcA2E4CEAAZlY-

    i can't understand how can there be human beings such careless about humanity. There is an interesting story about
    How Hitler came to power that is not being told in any western media or documentary. Apparently Hitler was helped by Jews in US ,UK and Europe to get into Power in Germany..that was already under big sanctions. The idea was to use hitler as a weapon against the Soviet Union.
    (in the same way the same people helped neonazis ukranians right wing parties to get in power). SImply the message is clear NATO wants to turn Ukraine into a battlefield to fight Russia. SO they will need to monitor carefully any movement of nuclear weapons into Ukraine ,that will be truly hostile and a real act of war against Russia.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 Empty Who is Victoria Nuland

    Post  calripson Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:11 pm

    Victoria Nuland (born Nudelman) is the wife of prominent neocon Robert Kagan. Both are leading neocon figures. Part of their visceral hatred for all things Russia stems from their anger at Putin's perceived road blocks for their plans for Syria and ultimately Iran. The "transatlantic" nonsense comes from a different direction, that of the Carroll Quigley Anglo-American Empire sort, as personified by Polish born (and British Commonwealth educated) Zbigniew Brzezinski. It reduces to an extension of the financial and business interests of the City of London and Wall Street. The ultimate beneficiaries of which are a host of wealthy aristocratic families (mainly WASPS and Dutch) and a host of dynastic banking families (mainly Jewish) who freely intermarry. That's the reality of how the world works. The U.S. government and the corporate western media are totally controlled by these interests.

    Now, as far as Russia is concerned, it matters not whether Putin or any other Russian leader plays ball or not. The U.S. openly supported Chechnyan separatism in the 1990s going as far as founding the Committee for Peace in Chechyna populated by all the big name geopolitical players. This was during a period when Yeltsin was totally subservient to the "west". Conflict is unavoidable and never ending between the 'west" and Russia - not due to some Russian pathology as presented by the likes of Nuland, but by virtue of the simple fact that the "west" seeks total global hegemony and Russia's military, natural resources, and geographic area present a challenge to this goal. (U.S. strategy regarding full spectrum dominance was written about openly in U.S. government sources in 1991-1992; one of the authors was in fact Dick Cheney). Only if the "west' declines in power as a result of some economic crisis, or if a third party threat arises such as China that requires the west to accommodate Russia to mitigate the greater threat, will any change in policy occur.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:37 pm

    One Spetsnaz soldier killed another one by mistake in Donetsk airport at about 1.30AM this morning.
    They were both from a Kirovograd Spetsnaz unit (don't know which) which had orders to guard the airport.
    The shooter failed to identify his squadmate in the dark and shot to kill. The soldier who was killed was 22 years old.

    http://kp.ua/daily/190414/449121/

    =================================

    The people's mayor of Gorilovka (pro-DPR town) went missing 3 nights ago (suspected to be abducted by the SBU or Pravyj Sektor or what not)

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/horlivka-pro-russian-activists-looking-for-peoples-mayor-sapunov-344005.html

    =================================

    A Russian woman journalist from LifeNews was detained for 18 hours in Mariupol and interrogated by Ukrainian authorities
    She was covering the events that happened in Mariupol a few nights ago when a bunch of people were shot and arrested; she was detained and handled very roughly along with others, receiving trauma to her legs and face.

    http://russian.rt.com/article/28286#ixzz2zDghu8Zp

    =================================

    Natasha Poklonskaya (new chief prosecutor of the Crimean republic), has been featured in a video-game (some DOTA clone by the looks of it)

    http://lifenews.ru/news/131585

    =================================

    Dnepropetrovsk paratroopers (the 25th brigade), are telling about how they've been betrayed, used as scapegoats by the government.

    http://vesti.ua/donbass/48064-dnepropetrovskie-desantniki-nas-predali-brosili-a-teper-obvinjajut

    Here's an interesting first-hand account explaining how they were surrounded and details of how they were sold-out. Some parallels can be found with Chechnya.

    http://dp.vgorode.ua/news/219899-otkrovenye-desantnyka-chto-sluchylos-s-25-y-bryhadoi-v-kramatorske
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    Post  gaurav Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:31 pm


    The shooter failed to identify his squadmate in the dark and shot to kill. The soldier who was killed was 22 years old.


    In Crimea
    External Russigan spec ops forces had  radio sets for communicating
    in during or before skirmishes .
    they had very good comm equipment .. personal radio sets .. and indicators during night time..

    I think Communication needs to improve in these small to medium units..

    reasons.. may be (I still dont know)
    Kramtorsk firing would have been more safer..
    this Donetsk airport fire incident..
    also Mariopol fire fight could be better coordinated..

    This is another proof that Russian units have not interfered in East ukraine..
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:13 am

    gaurav wrote:reasons.. may be (I still dont know)
    Kramtorsk firing would have been more safer..
    this Donetsk airport fire incident..
    also Mariopol fire fight could be better coordinated..

    This is another proof that Russian units have not interfered in East ukraine..

    These are all Ukrainian forces blunders, not their opponents.
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    Post  gaurav Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:41 am

    What the heck..
    man..
    He he he ..
    Thanks for that .. Cool 
    I got totally confused.. But I guess any thrid person would get confused..
    I forgot to read your link..

    These Ukrainian forces were deployed .. for arrival of tymoshenko..

    Well donetsk airport is still incontrol of pro ukrainian forces.??

    But still I would suggest that pro russian forces should have decent communication stuff.
    for avoiding friendly fire.. because same things could happen to pro russian forces.

    Therewere some news reports that pro russian forces were led into a trap in Mariopol and kramatorsk..
    by right sector activists
    These trap like situations could be avoided with real time coordiantion of radio..
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    Post  etaepsilonk Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:47 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Here's an interesting first-hand account explaining how they were surrounded and details of how they were sold-out. Some parallels can be found with Chechnya.

    http://dp.vgorode.ua/news/219899-otkrovenye-desantnyka-chto-sluchylos-s-25-y-bryhadoi-v-kramatorske

    No one sold out anything. This happens when you use open frequencies  Smile
    Chatting via mobiles and radios among self defense also helps to pinpoint their direction of movements.
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    Post  Intrigado Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:18 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Intrigado wrote:Things seem serious though.

    Don't tell me, I am gonna cry  Laughing 



    Well, hopefully tears would be spared, as any more bloodshed. What worries me in all this is that it wasn't about an article published in some newspaper or a leaked phone call but the US strategy to be applied in Europe in the near future. It wasn't that woman's opinion but the US official view. It's the first time since I can remember that I hear the US laying a claim on parts of Europe, more so that I don't recall any country asking American help to fight against corruption. So better be prepared, whether you like it or not, the Americans are gonna come and give you a happy life.  Very Happy 

    Even if times are so troubled, since both Catholic and Orthodox Churches are celebrating Passover at midnight, I'd like to wish everyone "Happy Easter" and may the Lord Jesus bring peace and understanding among us.

    P.S. Cliche or not, I do mean it, especially this year.   Sad
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:23 am

    The town of Komsomolskoe, Donetsk region - has raised the DPR flag.
    Seems they did it after a meeting at midday

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 Komsom10

    Don't expect much other activity over the weekend; Easter Sunday and all that.

    ===============================

    But things may be set to heat up in Zaporozhia
    The Motor-Sich factory has ignored directives to stop exporting to Russia. In fact they've carried on doing it, as Russia is basically their only real customer.
    Now the Maidanists have set out to stop this, possibly by storming the factory.
    The factory in response has called on all local residents and workers to defend the factory.
    Anti-Maidan Zaporozhie can potentially make some gains and capitalize on some support.

    http://www.newsbalt.ru/detail/?ID=27055

    ===============================

    Tyagnibok is promising to chase the Russian language out of south-east Ukraine, and views any discussion of Russian as an official language in the Ukraine as 'capitulation'
    http://lifenews.ru/news/131622

    Meanwhile Pravyj Sektor is refusing to call-in armed fighters from the south-east of the country, endangering the Geneva agreement even more
    http://rushor.com/news/17404

    With such people, no compromise is possible

    ===============================

    Poland's former president, Kwasnevskij - is predicting that the Ukraine's economic crisis will drive Ukrainians into the Customs Union.
    He also holds the opinion that war is absolutely not in Putin's interests, nor is splitting the Ukraine - because Putin wants all of it to join the Customs Union
    An interesting POV all in all
    http://russian.rt.com/inotv/2014-04-18/Kvasnevskij-Krizis-pogonit-ukraincev-v
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:37 am

    Intrigado wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Intrigado wrote:Things seem serious though.

    Don't tell me, I am gonna cry  Laughing 



    Well, hopefully tears would be spared, as any more bloodshed. What worries me in all this is that it wasn't about an article published in some newspaper or a leaked phone call but the US strategy to be applied in Europe in the near future. It wasn't that woman's opinion but the US official view. It's the first time since I can remember that I hear the US laying a claim on parts of Europe, more so that I don't recall any country asking American help to fight against corruption. So better be prepared, whether you like it or not, the Americans are gonna come and give you a happy life.  Very Happy 

    Even if times are so troubled, since both Catholic and Orthodox Churches are celebrating Passover at midnight, I'd like to wish everyone "Happy Easter" and may the Lord Jesus bring peace and understanding among us.

    P.S. Cliche or not, I do mean it, especially this year.   Sad



    Yeah mate, already said that Greece, the most key country in the Balkans, is about to leave (de facto or at least de jure) Western institutions so I do expect Americans and their puppet dogs here to try everything they got to not lose Balkans. Giving money is not an option, they don't have any, so they can try only nasty things. I don't think that they can reverse the inevitable but may create a mess, we are talking about highly mean individuals.
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    Post  Intrigado Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:07 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Don't expect much other activity over the weekend; Easter Sunday and all that.

    Meanwhile Western media (I suppose this is where our good for nothing media picks its information since they're too lazy to actually go there and see for themselves) says that the Crimean Tatars are fired from their jobs and threatened with unemployment. And that in Slavyansk some people of the Gypsy minority got robbed by pro-Russians. Not very believable, both of them, but here you go.

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    Post  Intrigado Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:13 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:



    Yeah mate, already said that Greece, the most key country in the Balkans, is about to leave (de facto or at least de jure) Western institutions so I do expect Americans and their puppet dogs here to try everything they got to not lose Balkans.

    You mean throwing out the Troika? I want that too! But how could it be done?
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    Post  Vann7 Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:15 am

    thanks for the updates.. flamming_python  interesting indeed..


    this youtube channel is posting a lot of stuff from Ukraine.. but can't understand anything..
    I see soldiers well armed with APCS looks like Pro Russian forces.. but no idea what happens,where it is.. and what they say.



    and some incident happened here..



    Can anyone summarize?
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    Post  Cyberspec Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:10 am

    The first video is a refutation of a recent claim on Ukr. media that 2 APC have been recaptured by the Kiev forces.

    The second video is about kidnappings of activists by Right Sector
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:42 am

    Looks like Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski invited 86 members of the Right Sector for training, aka brownshirt street-fighting:

    The secret state secret Maidan

    Polish Conditioning camp for Ukrainians.

    Ukrainian grimacing mouth only in a strange grimace. For the Polish came a year ago in search of work and prospects. I ended up on the illegal zapierdalaniu on the site.
    barely manage to control the laughter. Sitting in front of me a man mason certainly never was - hands are smooth like an unemployed pianist. And the sport is practiced may piczy polo 3 goals, because moves with the grace of a tanker. What he says about others, but it is more interesting than what he says about himself.
    According to his information, 86 militants then still szykowanego Euromajdanu flew over the Vistula River in September 2013 at the invitation of the Polish Foreign Ministry.
    pretext was to be the start of cooperation between Warsaw University of Technology and the National Technical University in Kiev. The devil that some students from Ukraine did not have exams, they had for it after 40 years - it's important that created the appearance. The last thing that anyone would be interested, visit the geeks behind the Bug River.
    Instead of building the university, the visitors from the East were by Vova transported to for three civilian buses to Legionowa. Here in the Police Training Centre, had to spend the next four weeks. According to what he writes on his website CSP is available is intended, inter alia, hall, specialist laboratories, a library, sports facilities, gym, stadium, swimming pool, shooting complex, cafeteria, buffet, two lecture halls with booths for simultaneous interpretation, forensic room for classes, as well as hotel facilities with satellite TV and the Internet. In short, everything you need to access an accelerated course rozpierduchy.
    - Maybe I just looked for a cheap accommodation for foreign state guests? - I ask.
    - Of course. MFA surveyed portals of hotels and this was the best offer!

    Busy Day of the Jackal
    Vova pulls the computer and shows me a series of documents, videos and photos from the training held here. Almost each bearing the same type of man: bald, tattooed Zakapior in type murdered recently Sashka White with Right Sector. From the sweaty t-shirts can be seen tattooed with swastikas, eagles or runes. Between the "students" from the East scrolling in various poses men in balaclavas. This - he says Vova - Polish instructors. There are of course wearing any symbols indicating that they are representatives of our armed forces, but just look at the wall to see that the action takes place in Legionów. The blocking of the large lettering "Police Arkadiusz" or hanging on the wall a portrait of Chief of simply forgotten. Typical Polish poplin ...
    Ukrainians trained long and passionately. Day 1 and 2 - accommodation, acclimatization and light exercise. Day 3 and 4 - theoretical: crowd management, choice of target, tactics and leadership. Day 5 - Training of behavior in stressful situations. Day 6 - free without the possibility of leaving the resort. Day 7 - preclinical. Day 8 - protection against irritating gases. Day 9 - building barricades.
    And so on, and on, for nearly 25 days. In real hits: repeatedly recurring classes at the shooting (including three with sniper rifles!), Tactical and practical training with the storming of the buildings, and even - pay attention! - Meeting with representatives of the Polish organization kibicowskich and patriotic.
    - Did I get it? Legia hooligans or the Vistula and the extreme right-wing activists on the invitation of the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Ukrainian fascists learned how to make a riot! - I ask spitting a Coke.  
    MAREK Miszczuk

    http://nie.com.pl/13-2014/tajemnica-stanu-tajemnica-majdanu

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    Post  Werewolf Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:47 am

    Poland,Estonia,Lithunia are the european equivalent to the Middle Eastern Qatar,Pakistan,Kuwait,Turkey and Israel for training,funding,arming and sending terrorists into souvereign countries.


    Update:

    Video of how well established NGO organisations have gathered Rent-demonstrations up to 5000 to rent from some few.


    Here a ukrainian goes and figures out how that works, how much that costs and how to do it.

    To show to the viewrs that they are paid he goes around and tells them,
    "go smile like you like it, you were instructed and paid so do your job"

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    Post  Vann7 Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:14 pm

    HE can smile more now ,that will have a land locked pro EU nation.. LOL

    Here are some editing recompilation  ..of what looks to be events in Odessa.. what should be the most important city for Russia to capture.
    It looks like they are getting decent participation of Pro Russian civilians in that city..



    and RT reports.. 6 killed total from both sides and others wounded in clashes in a check point in Eastern Ukraine by
    an attack of the right sector at night..

    http://rt.com/news/slavyansk-checkpoint-shooting-killed-640/

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    Post  flamming_python Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:46 pm

    The town of Starobeshevo, Donetsk region - has raised the DPR flag
    http://rusvesna.su/news/1397929147

    ========================

    Anti-Maidan co-ordinator in Kharkov has been detained
    http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1497487&1497487

    ========================

    More rumours about Yanukoivch making his appearance soon.
    Apparently he is, or was - supposed to come in via Berdyansk airport. One of the local air defense commanders has been detained by the SBU (allegedly he switched off air-traffic monitoring or was planning to), while concrete blocks have been put on the airstrip there. Meanwhile, security forces have been deployed to other airports throughout the Donetsk region. It seems that if he comes - he will do it with Russia's help/involvement
    http://rusvesna.su/news/1397898830

    ========================

    Some noise about the Zakarpatia region preparing to declare itself an independent republic on the 24th April. Some Rusyn radical groups are activating, possibly with the involvement of ethnic Hungarians too.
    I think it's too early personally for this story to be anything other than BS but whatever.

    http://worldru.ru/index.php?nma=news&fla=stat&nums=32507
    http://novezakarpattya.com/politics/19451-24-kvitnya-zakarpattya-ogolosit-pro-stvorennya-nezalezhnoyi-respubliki.html

    Earlier the Hungarian Jobbik party laid a claim on this region

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 18 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

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