The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

Very disturbing. Its starting to look like S Ossetia. Utter scum backed by Americans. An armed far right militia is taking over sections of the army. I really wouldn't be surprised that we could see heavy Russian arnamanents rolling into the East AND Central  Ukraine within 24 hrs.

These monsters are exactly the same as Sahkashvilli.

This is not good news.
Ukraine militia everywhere

Thanks Arpakola for bringing the latest from Ukraine.

Everyone KNOWS what sort of scum is infesting Kiev at the moment.
Why should lives be lost before Moscow intervenes?
I don't understand..   

Firebird wrote:Very disturbing. Its starting to look like S Ossetia. Utter scum backed by Americans. An armed far right militia is taking over sections of the army. I really wouldn't be surprised that we could see heavy Russian arnamanents rolling into the East AND Central  Ukraine within 24 hrs.

These monsters are exactly the same as Sahkashvilli.

(there is 'traffic" near Rostov..)




Российские войска идут на поддержку

Everyone KNOWS what sort of scum is infesting Kiev at the moment.
Why should lives be lost before Moscow intervenes?
I don't understand..  

It is difficult to think what sort of people are these artsenyk and turchnyov..
Crazy seems to be the best word..
They have russian inheritance but behave like animals (wild boar..)

What calculations are going on in Russ MoD .. is anybody guess.

perhaps they will wait a little more.. or perhaps .. they will directly interfere in Kiev..

but I get a feel .. that now situation can only be taken care of in Kiev.. 

-----------------------

special offer (he he )

RT covering the dubious "Russians in Ukraine" photos:

This is too good . Fell of the chair laughing .




Ukrainian helicopter just dropped leaflet over Slavyansk and Kramatorsk. Warns residents to avoid "Russian terrorists"   

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Russian MoD start military exercise in Rostov region, so those military convoys are most probably part of exercise.

Unfortunately i don't see much support.. in the eastern regions.. is like only 3% of the population is active protesting. So thats the major problem i see lack of support.. If there was overwhelming support not only civilians but enough Ukrainian armed forces for Russia intervention then things will be different.  

The way i see it..  the best play for Russia is to remain away directly from the conflict.. and indirectly support them with weapons to push back the ukrainians neo nazi army. Give them Kornet -E missiles or any other cheaper but with similar range and manpads (with the first missiles with a significantly reduce explosive charge) only enough to damage the helicopters but not kill anyone and push them away of the conflict. Time is NOT in the side of Kiev.. by the end of year when people start losing their jobs and ukraine goes bankrupt ,and their money in banks is worth of toilet paper.. people will be on their knees ,pleading RUssia to take them back.

The problem of Russia interfering or invading now is that a direct war with Ukraine will break any possibility of Russia having ever good relations with Ukrainian citizens ,even with the ones that used to be neutral to Russia ,aside of the problems with Belarus that is against the federalization and the armed uprising.. So Russia could lost a lot by invading relations with their former soviet republics..  Not interfering directly however have the big risk of sacrificing the collapse of the insurrection Pro Russia and many hundreds of Russians killed. Is kind of dam if you do and damned if not. Economically speaking the best option is wait and just arm Pro Russian local forces with limited undercover support.

I really consider Russia policy in Ukraine a total failure.. they only got lucky in Crimea. Putin should have known Ukraine was on the hit list to be overtaken by a coup by US..and that their nation security will be at risk after that.
And more worried after the arab spring began in 2011 ,full knowing that US was behind it. Even more fully knowing that US NGOS were operating in Ukraine brainwashing them for more than a decade. There is no excuse for Russia for having at least 10,000 -20,000 special forces local forces inside Ukraine main land loyal to Russia and have that little army sleep and activate them in case a major coup is repeated again.. Hopefully Russia have a plan other than invading, because if that is their plan ,then definitively they have learned nothing and wasted their time all this years in Ukraine.. and their policy needs to change to one of more interference in the countries they understand US is using its money against them. I will not be surprised if many of the forces attacking the eastern zones in Ukraine loyal to Russia are americans blackwater mercenary thugs. But also with the help of many western Ukrainians neo nazis loyal to Kiev.

Vann7 wrote:Unfortunately i don't see much support.. in the eastern regions.. is like only 3% of the population is active protesting. So thats the major problem i see lack of support.. If there was overwhelming support not only civilians but enough Ukrainian armed forces for Russia intervention then things will be different.  

The way i see it..  the best play for Russia is to remain away directly from the conflict.. and indirectly support them with weapons to push back the ukrainians neo nazi army. Give them Kornet -E missiles or any other cheaper but with similar range and manpads (with the first missiles with a significantly reduce explosive charge) only enough to damage the helicopters but not kill anyone and push them away of the conflict. Time is NOT in the side of Kiev.. by the end of year when people start losing their jobs and ukraine goes bankrupt ,and their money in banks is worth of toilet paper.. people will be on their knees ,pleading RUssia to take them back.

The problem of Russia interfering or invading now is that a direct war with Ukraine will break any possibility of Russia having ever good relations with Ukrainian citizens ,even with the ones that used to be neutral to Russia ,aside of the problems with Belarus that is against the federalization and the armed uprising.. So Russia could lost a lot by invading relations with their former soviet republics..  Not interfering directly however have the big risk of sacrificing the collapse of the insurrection Pro Russia and many hundreds of Russians killed. Is kind of dam if you do and damned if not. Economically speaking the best option is wait and just arm Pro Russian local forces with limited undercover support.

I really consider Russia policy in Ukraine a total failure.. they only got lucky in Crimea. Putin should have known Ukraine was on the hit list to be overtaken by a coup by US..and that their nation security will be at risk after that.
And more worried after the arab spring began in 2011 ,full knowing that US was behind it. Even more fully knowing that US NGOS were operating in Ukraine brainwashing them for more than a decade. There is no excuse for Russia for having at least 10,000 -20,000 special forces local forces inside Ukraine main land loyal to Russia and have that little army sleep and activate them in case a major coup is repeated again.. Hopefully Russia have a plan other than invading, because if that is their plan ,then definitively they have learned nothing and wasted their time all this years in Ukraine.. and their policy needs to change to one of more interference in the countries they understand US is using its money against them. I will not be surprised if many of the forces attacking the eastern zones in Ukraine loyal to Russia are americans blackwater mercenary thugs. But also with the help of many western Ukrainians neo nazis loyal to Kiev.

Agree, Russia now have to wait few months, that development take it course. Kiev junta attack their own citizens and it is clear, that there is no Russian troops as Russian troops would be differently armed, have control of border and support from the air or at least some AT weapons and MANPADs to protect themselves. As you mentioned, there is still not a critical level of active rebellion of southeastern Ukrainians, which will be quickly reached if Kiev junta start killings and terrorizing population. When a massive unrest will be reached, than Russia could easier step inside to pacify the region.

Gotta say, I see it completely differently.

Euromaiden's Right Sector had hardly any support. But it had the back up of the Evil Empire (aka the US) and its little poodle, the rogue elements of the EU.

Infact, much of the Euromaiden was a protest against "the system" as it was against Yanuk. Perhaps more so, because it was the non Pty of the Regions clowns that were causing much shit.

The longer Russia leaves it, the more the scum will take hold. Intimidating and killing judges, soldiers, the media, polticians etc etc.

The place isn't remotely like a democracy any more. Its opportunist scum, certified psychopaths and all the usual vermin you'd expect to be put in place by a US coup.

The pro-Russian groups are massive. But ofcourse they are being terrorist by self confessed Nazis, and "Nazi-lite" groups like Tymoshenko and her armed gang.  If Russia stands back, people will think "we cant protest, we will get killed, and Russia wont help us".

This is the ideal time to steam in. Leave it, and its far far harder to justify or even perform intervention. Imagine this regime "legitimised" in x weeks, MONTHS, YEARS time. Russian language banned. The peddling of a perverse Banderist propaganda, turning children against Russia. Russians fleeing abroad. Protestors jailed and killed. NATO bases in Donetsk. The Ukraine plundered beyond recognition. GM poisons being blown into Russia. The plundering of Scythian treasures, Orthodox relics to sit in the collection of some Blackwater scum over in Virginia.

I live in the West, and I can see its all screaming out for Russian intervention. Very sad state of affairs.

PS, to me, the Eastern pro Russian movement looks way bigger than Wanker-Maiden ever was. Diffeence is, its spread across lots of towns. Perhaps there needs to be a campaign more focussed on Kiev. Cutting electric, telecoms and IT, harming the smooth running of the city. Bring the city to a standstill. After all, I cant see the Central Ukr moderates being thrilled with Right Sector telling them what to do. Esp when they're begging Russia for cheap gas...

Vann7 wrote:Unfortunately i don't see much support.. in the eastern regions.. is like only 3% of the population is active protesting. So thats the major problem i see lack of support.. If there was overwhelming support not only civilians but enough Ukrainian armed forces for Russia intervention then things will be different.  

The way i see it..  the best play for Russia is to remain away directly from the conflict.. and indirectly support them with weapons to push back the ukrainians neo nazi army. Give them Kornet -E missiles or any other cheaper but with similar range and manpads (with the first missiles with a significantly reduce explosive charge) only enough to damage the helicopters but not kill anyone and push them away of the conflict. Time is NOT in the side of Kiev.. by the end of year when people start losing their jobs and ukraine goes bankrupt ,and their money in banks is worth of toilet paper.. people will be on their knees ,pleading RUssia to take them back.

The problem of Russia interfering or invading now is that a direct war with Ukraine will break any possibility of Russia having ever good relations with Ukrainian citizens ,even with the ones that used to be neutral to Russia ,aside of the problems with Belarus that is against the federalization and the armed uprising.. So Russia could lost a lot by invading relations with their former soviet republics..  Not interfering directly however have the big risk of sacrificing the collapse of the insurrection Pro Russia and many hundreds of Russians killed. Is kind of dam if you do and damned if not. Economically speaking the best option is wait and just arm Pro Russian local forces with limited undercover support.

I really consider Russia policy in Ukraine a total failure.. they only got lucky in Crimea. Putin should have known Ukraine was on the hit list to be overtaken by a coup by US..and that their nation security will be at risk after that.
And more worried after the arab spring began in 2011 ,full knowing that US was behind it. Even more fully knowing that US NGOS were operating in Ukraine brainwashing them for more than a decade. There is no excuse for Russia for having at least 10,000 -20,000 special forces local forces inside Ukraine main land loyal to Russia and have that little army sleep and activate them in case a major coup is repeated again.. Hopefully Russia have a plan other than invading, because if that is their plan ,then definitively they have learned nothing and wasted their time all this years in Ukraine.. and their policy needs to change to one of more interference in the countries they understand US is using its money against them. I will not be surprised if many of the forces attacking the eastern zones in Ukraine loyal to Russia are americans blackwater mercenary thugs. But also with the help of many western Ukrainians neo nazis loyal to Kiev.

Ukraine as a total never would be with Russia . Always would be problems. Ukraine is not one country .. is at least 3
If Russia steps in just to insure that the referendums will take place , then I dont think will be any problem with the local population of east and say odessa.

Now what  LuKashenko says .. who gives a dum ?

Now as for the wait and see way, there is danger that the moral will be demorilised. Desparate people dont always turn  revolutionary.. In many cases they are getting closed in house or start begging around for food. Greece is a good example of it. Giving too much time to Kiev Im not shure is the best idea.

I agree that giving igla , Dragunovs and rpgs is a good idea , also night vision equipment and secure communication equipment.
An other factor is the TV broad casts. The captured buildings must become local TV stations broadcasting 24h .. this is very importand !!
--------------------------------------

KIEV, April 24. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s Right Sector radicals have seized the building of the local state administration in the town of Kolomyia in the Ivano-Frankovsk region in the west of Ukraine, local media reported on Thursday.
According to media reports, radicals have blocked the operation of the administration in protest against the newly-appointed administration head, Mikhail Boyko.
Boyko was appointed to the post by Ukraine’s parliament-appointed President and parliament speaker Oleksandr Turchynov.

The self defence forces of east must transfer the war to the west Ukraine..
there are many ways to kick the soft belly of Kiev.
They must feel unsecure to stop atacking the east

arpakola wrote:The self defence forces of east must transfer the war to the west Ukraine..
there are many ways to kick the soft belly of Kiev.
They must feel unsecure to stop atacking the east

Agree..

But civilians needs to participate.. they also need to take all other cities in the east fully like karkov. We also agree that Russia needs to start arming heavily the local defenses in easter ukraine with Kornets, manpads ,bullet proof vest sniper rifles and night vision googles..  IS far more cheaper
to arm ukrainians than to send your army there..  IF Russia sends their army ,they will face a lot on unrest in Russia for No war.. etc.. and that will have a heavy hit on Russia economy too..  I really believe NATO aims are Russia economy and russia economy and Russia economy.. but also they looking for ways to affect Russia economy.
They clearly know Ukraine have no chance to win in a fight with the Russian army. So if Russia invade they will start sending mercenaries ,waves after wave from all europe and repeat a Syria conflict. So my best guess is the best option for Russia is to send 200 hundred Kornet-E missiles but also manpads and a thousand of bullet proof vest  to Eastern Ukraine with 300 strong special forces but undercover..with the only aim to push away any kiev forces. and the Russian special forces should train them how to use the weapons.. SPy pro nato Media should not be allowed anywhere in the east or south .. all have to be not allowed to film for security reasons.  And Russia will also need to finance them.. to encourage civilians to attend rallies..  All this measures are far less expensive than sending their own army..


on more news .. apparently in city of Mariupol in the south the protesters managed to kick armed neonazis that came at night from their controlled building.

KIEV, April 24 (RIA Novosti) – Unknown attackers on Wednesday night broke into the city council building in the southeastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol, controlled by pro-federalization supporters, injuring several people, a local news portal has reported.
“Five men aged between 18 and 28 were injured during an attempt to storm the city council,” the report said. The men suffered multiple injuries, including to the head, and sought medical assistance.
Three of them have been admitted to a local injury care center, and two have refused to be hospitalized.
The representatives of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, declared on April 7, said they have repelled the attempt to storm the building.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140424/189340711/Five-Injured-in-City-Council-Storming-in-Ukraines-Mariupol-.html

NYT is now embracing McCarthyism:

US State Dept and NYT ‘photo evidence’ case collapses

Pictures presented by Washington and Kiev as evidence of Russia's involvement in Ukraine, and published on Monday by the New York Times, were unverified and in fact contradicted the claims they were to support.

The US State department acknowledged the error and the New York Times back-tracked on its Monday story, which claimed “photographs and descriptions from eastern Ukraine endorsed by the Obama administration … suggest that many of the green men are indeed Russian military and intelligence forces”.

The proof was this particular picture with an inscription “Group photograph taken in Russia”.



Freelance photographer Maxim Dondyuk took the photo.

“It was taken in Slavyansk [Ukraine],” he told NYT over the phone. “Nobody asked my permission to use it.”

The picture was amongst others Kiev gave the OSCE mission to Ukraine to ‘prove’ Russian involvement in the massive unrest gripping the Donetsk region.

The State Department repeated the claims, citing ‘confirmation’ of Moscow involvement.

“We see in the photos that have been again in international media, on Twitter, publicly available is that there are individuals who visibly appear to be tied to Russia. We’ve said that publicly a countless number of times,” Jen Psaki, State Dept spokeswoman said.

The New York Times eventually published a climbdown Wednesday - ‘Scrutiny Over Photos Said to Tie Russia Units to Ukraine’, where it admitted failing to properly verify the Kiev photo dossier.

The NYT also cited the State Dept’s Psaki admitting “the assertion that the photograph in the American briefing materials had been taken in Russia was incorrect”. She explained the picture was only part of a draft packet that wasn’t used by Kerry at the talks.

Psaki then claimed to have other evidence connecting “the Russians and the armed militants” in eastern Ukraine but would not provide details.

http://rt.com/news/154548-pictures-russian-troops-false/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

The Real revolution will begin as soon not even police and most government do not receive a salary and are unemployed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f7hqwEhlm0


Another possibility Russia can explore is collapsing Ukraine economy ,not trading with them.. or if they trade that only do it with eastern regions and this one pay nothing to kiev. Ukraine maintains its operation of their police and army thanks to US and NATO funding. What will the Ukraine army do when no longer they paid or have money even to eat? Same with police when no longer paid?  2-3 months without payment will do the trick. It will force US to keep funding Ukraine. And people regardless of size will rebel against Ukraine junta.

This is mostly ukrainian internal conflict, not a conflict between Russia and Ukraine as West want to show, so it have to stay inside Ukraine for Ukrainians to deal with it. It must become massive rebellion of southeastern regions against Kiev junta before Russia could more actively involve in it politically at first and than if needed as pacifying force. Massive rebellion will also bring Ukrainian army to make a decision, where they stand in this internal conflict. With their citizens or with junta. Maybe army will than stand with citizens and throw the junta as Egyptian army throw Mursi.

Vann7 wrote:The Real revolution will begin as soon not even police and most government do not receive a salary and are unemployed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f7hqwEhlm0


Another possibility Russia can explore is collapsing Ukraine economy ,not trading with them.. or if they trade that only do it with eastern regions and this one pay nothing to kiev. Ukraine maintains its operation of their police and army thanks to US and NATO funding. What will the Ukraine army do when no longer they paid or have money even to eat? Same with police when no longer paid?  2-3 months without payment will do the trick. It will force US to keep funding Ukraine. And people regardless of size will rebel against Ukraine junta.

Yeap this is the whole essence of the Ukrainian crisis and from where all started.
China backed Russia made an absolutely incredible proposal of some 25 billions of direct investments and loans under great conditions with practically zero obligations. This was a staggering offer enough to hold Ukraine for the next 3-4 years without further support.
USA and EU put their agents in action to cancel this country-saving deal and the masses been brainwashed about almighty West convinced that if they sleep with the enemy will get all they want, alas....
I don't blame them though, even the fucking Serbs who got raped by NATO want to be part of EU. They are fucking retards those bitches really deserve all the suffering they got!
Others still want to join Euro, Azeris think that they can deliver gas to EU under the nose of the almighty Russia...they will bankrupt Russia, along with Georgia this tiny shit whole genocided by the Turks, they must be lunatics.
I don't think people realize that west is effectively bankrupt pretty much in the same way Soviet Union was in the early 80s (according to Ron Paul one of the handful US politicians I respect even like in '87!).
Judging from my Greek experience West will not provide enough liquidity to stop the problem from worsening and this is why from the very beginning I was so positive that East will triumph here.
Giving some money to key people is possible but is not enough especially for Ukraine's case.
Getting passports and leave for EU is out of question. They are too many and can't be accepted, West already have unattainable unemployment on her own and after all such regulation period will take a few years to complete.

medo wrote:This is mostly ukrainian internal conflict, not a conflict between Russia and Ukraine as West want to show, so it have to stay inside Ukraine for Ukrainians to deal with it. It must become massive rebellion of southeastern regions against Kiev junta before Russia could more actively involve in it politically at first and than if needed as pacifying force. Massive rebellion will also bring Ukrainian army to make a decision, where they stand in this internal conflict. With their citizens or with junta. Maybe army will than stand with citizens and throw the junta as Egyptian army throw Mursi.

But its not an internal "Ukraine" matter. What have Nazis got to do with the general popln of the Ukraine? Nothing. Its all American/EU coordinated. Their prize is plundering the Ukraine. And NATO nukes in Donetsk and Lugansk. If the Americans have took over part of the Ukr army, and armed far right loons with masses of weapons and expertise, Russia cant just stand aside.

Who does it impress by standing aside? No one. America considers RU public enemy numnber one anyway. Russian will NEVER have a better option to sort the mess, once and for all.

If Russia keeps standing aside, it means the "Russian world" no longer exists.