The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

arpakola wrote:http://goo.gl/maps/AB3ok
About 200 fighters from Right Sector prepare to storm MVD headquarters in Poltava

‘Russia had no other option’

What was the rationale for Crimea’s accession to Russia?

The most important, of course, was the will of the local people, which was very clearly expressed in the referendum of March 16. The will of the people was the guiding beacon for the Russian authorities. Apart from that, there were forces in Kiev which had accelerated the process in Crimea. The first thing the so-called new government in Kiev did was to pass a decree abolishing Russian as an official language instead of focussing on economic recovery. They rectified it later but it was a bad mistake on their part. It immediately alienated Crimeans and hastened the process [of accession].

But, apart from all that, the Crimean situation is different from similar cases around the world. First and foremost, in 1954, Khrushchev whimsically decided to gift Crimea to Ukraine, where he was once the Communist Party chief. Never before had Crimea been with Ukraine. The Russian empire had fought three major wars with the Turks for Crimea and it was only during the time of Catherine the Great that complete possession of Crimea took place.

In Ukraine now, very radical ultra-nationalist elements have entered the government who, unfortunately, are ruling that “satanic ball”. They are from western Ukraine, which was never originally part of that country. And Crimeans thought that with these forces having the upper hand in government, the lakhs of Russian lives laid down for Crimea would go in vain.

More than one million Russians perished in the three wars. One hundred and fifty thousand Russians are buried in a cemetery in Sevastopol.

And after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there has been complete neglect on the part of Kiev about the needs and requirements of the Crimean people. World-famous resorts there have fallen into ruin. Kiev was more preoccupied with its internal political struggles.

How important is the port of Sevastopol for Russia?

Even before 1954, Sevastopol had a special status as the base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. It was always subordinate throughout its history to the central government in Moscow.

What about the impact of the sanctions on Russia?

Inconsequential. The world has changed. There is much more interdependency now. Russia has always been and continues to be against any kind of sanctions. We never joined the West-led sanctions against India in 1998, which is somewhat forgotten these days. Against the background of globalisation, any sanctions will boomerang. Europeans are not united on the issue. The German Chancellor has said that they do not want to have an economic war with Russia.

President Obama has described Russia as a mere regional power.

Only God can judge whether Russia is a regional or a superpower, and the American President is not God. What would you call a country that has the capacity to destroy the planet a thousand times?

Russia was suspended from the G8 and there was a call by the Australian Prime Minister to keep Putin out of the G20 summit.

Their discourteous language about Russian membership in the G8 and the G20 was unwarranted. If the G8 has done its job, so be it, but it is not up to any G20 member to either expel or not invite another member state. We are not bound to those formats and do not consider it a badge of honour.

The G8 is just a gentleman’s club with no consequence. The G20 is definitely more important.

Is Russia happy with the response of the BRICS nations and the result of the U.N. vote on Crimea?

The response of the BRICS countries was constructive and well-balanced. We value the position they took. The outcome of the U.N. General Assembly vote was absolutely balanced. The vote has shown that there is a great force emerging now, which rejects the policies of a unipolar world. It reminds me of the golden days of the Non-Aligned Movement.

Is Russia not unhappy with India and China for abstaining from the U.N. vote?

Not at all. President Putin in his Kremlin speech after the incorporation of Crimea emphatically thanked the Indian and Chinese governments for their far-sighted and objective position. He also singled out India for its constructive approach.

Is the continued expansion of NATO a concern?

Unfortunately, double standards and deceit have always been the guiding principles of our partners. They had given assurances to the Soviet Union and Russia that they would not move to our borders. Now Poland, the Czech Republic and the Baltic republics that were part of the USSR are members of NATO. Then what are their promises worth? Not even a paisa.

There was betrayal even in Ukraine.

Yes. What was the value of the agreement the three Foreign Ministers signed in Kiev? One day Yanukovich was very much at the helm and the next day the agreement was discarded like toilet paper by the West.

The West has been using the pretext of a Russian military build-up on the Ukraine border to ratchet up the tensions.

We do have to protect Russia from the instability in the neighbouring countries and even fraternal countries. Look what happened yesterday in Kiev. Those bandits stormed the Parliament building. Putin had clearly stated that he did not want any fragmentation of Ukraine. He said that he wanted a prosperous and stable Ukraine. Chaos in Ukraine is not in Russia’s national interest.

macedonian wrote:Anyone got any fresh info about what's going on in the east?
And I don't mean Facebook posts by putchist regime wankers, but actual news from people on the ground.

Vann7 wrote:
Clearly it looks like it will be a matter of time.. weeks but most likely months that the Eastern part of Ukraine and
probably the southern part will declare independence and split from Ukraine. Since Ukraine is bankrupt and will never recover
its economy again ,The question is not IF.. but how much weeks or months to happen. Question i have..
In what way will benefit Russian economy and strategically to have all eastern side and south of ukraine?

navyfield wrote:it wont.
Russias gdp growth is just above 0 and this would plunge it into bad recession .
Every empire suffers from overreach and overextends itself ,thas why they dont want to charge ahead with unification idea ,20 mill people will demand same treatment like crimeans did -so that means 3x higher paychecks and pensions.
145mill russia cant support that without consequences.
For russia ideal would be a Ukranian federation east-west ,with westerners paying for ukranian gas bills  and with ability of east to separate on a referendum after some time when things get better.

This way ukraine will be divided like east-west Germany , and we know who won that   

flamming_python wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

macedonian wrote:Anyone got any fresh info about what's going on in the east?
And I don't mean Facebook posts by putchist regime wankers, but actual news from people on the ground.

I think we should wait for "flamming_python" to start his news feed. He is currently at "mp.retarded", arguing with retards.

**shuffling papers**

Well basically:

- Slavyansk is going to shit. SBU co-ordinating the storm of the town; airport taken over already. Up-to 150 Spetsnaz, 2 helicopters, reports of BTRs. 1 dead, 5 wounded on their side, at least 3 wounded on the pro-Russian militia's side. Allegedly even Pravyj Sektor has arrived there now http://russian.rt.com/article/27578
Of course though all this info is far from reliable, but it's all we got.
- another town captured today; Enakiyevo - allegedly the SBU building, city administration and prosecutor's office have been taken over. Unsure though if its just unarmed local protestors who rose up, or a militia group arrived and did the work
- huge amount of protestors expected to show up in central Kharkov today; carrying on from the protest yesterday. Currently the Kharkov Euromaidan is co-ordinating its actions from the regional administration building allegedly. We might see it getting flushed out of there.
- Kharkov Spetsnaz "Sokol" has raided the Pravyj Sektor HQ in Kharkov. Unclear on whose orders, and who they are loyal to.
- Poltava police arrested 70 Pravyj Sektor activists yesterday, on their way to fight the anti-Maidanists in Kharkov. Before - they never used to bother them.

Regime is with its back to the wall and may ultimately use military force; that's IMO anyway.

flamming_python wrote:- NATO secretary general threatens Russia with increased isolation.

And now to stop with such non-news, here is some real news:

- Mariupol administration building seized by protestors
- Some sources say that the Ukr. Spetsnaz forces have liquidated one of the pro-Russian militia checkpoints in/around Slavyansk; using grenade launchers among other weapons.
- Ukr. forces around Slavyansk continously reinforced.
- Pravyj Sektor attacked a checkpoint in Slavyansk; one injured (apparently from the pro-Russian militia), one dead (apparently from Pravyj Sektor)
- One civilian heavily injured in Slavyansk by Ukr. forces (could be that fisherman written about earlier, mistaken for a militia member)
- Apparently a Berkut unit, or former Berkut members, are part of the pro-Russian forces guarding Slavyansk.
- Seems that the self-defense forces (pro-Russian militia) have set up a checkpoint along the road to the town of Dzherzinsk, Donetsk region. They seem to be locals from that town. They are also apparently unarmed, and claim that the main aim is observation of forces loyal to Kiev.


Oh yeah and the Maidan rally in Kharkov yesterday; before they got their ass beat I guess


- Some mixed feelings in Kazakhstan in regards to the Crimean annexation. Predictable unfortunately:
http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/kazakhstan-opposition-fears-ukraines-russian-spring/