EU, ΙMF and Greece and Spending cut

flamming_python wrote:I'm enjoying the drama here to be honest; never expected Tsirpas to go as far as he has.

But I'm afraid that he hasn't really a leg to stand on in this standoff. He's really pissing off the big-boys and these guys are not the type that tolerate disloyalty - nor do they forgive it.

Harkening back to an old civil war maxim - "You, we won't shoot. You - we will hang"

zg18 wrote:

Kyo wrote:On time or not, austerity leads to lower GDP which, in turn,  leads to lower fiscal revenues and so, to lesser government expenditures, which in turn leads to lower GDP, turning the whole process into a spiraling black hole.

Yes austerity does lower GDP , but doesn`t necessarily means it lowers revenues. Most countries that do austerity started parallel process to bring grey economy into legal sphere and stronger tax and fiscal discipline. Austerity can work with structural reforms, Germans did it 10 years ago, my neighbours from Serbia are doing it successfully right now.

Hannibal Barca wrote:OK Syriza raped the Greeks. It's official now but I already gave you this piece of information a year ago.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Unless you wanted a rerun of the civil war in Greece, they did what they could. It's very difficult to understand why Tsipras would change so little from the former plan and still get accepted...Uncle Sam did its magic. Vae Victis, Alea Jacta Est etc...

flamming_python wrote:Gotta laugh at russian-insider with their ridiculous overoptimism about everything.

Greece ain't going nowhere.

flamming_python wrote:Told you they would fold.
And now they're gonna be punished worse than before - for disobedience.

Gotta laugh at russian-insider with their ridiculous overoptimism about everything.

Greece ain't going nowhere.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:OK Syriza raped the Greeks. It's official now but I already gave you this piece of information a year ago.

Unless you wanted a rerun of the civil war in Greece, they did what they could. It's very difficult to understand why Tsipras would change so little from the former plan and still get accepted...Uncle Sam did its magic. Vae Victis, Alea Jacta Est etc...

Hannibal Barca wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:OK Syriza raped the Greeks. It's official now but I already gave you this piece of information a year ago.

Unless you wanted a rerun of the civil war in Greece, they did what they could. It's very difficult to understand why Tsipras would change so little from the former plan and still get accepted...Uncle Sam did its magic. Vae Victis, Alea Jacta Est etc...

Let me have better (sic) intelligence about Greece than you.
Those voices about civil war and this and that and American intervention etc is total crap.
People are so staggered by the economic decline of the last 8 years that the country was never more peaceful than it is since the impose of the capital controls.
There are so many people that are affected by the austerity, and is the younger and more active people, that it is further memorandums which will cause explosion and not the other way around.
Real politic is to default on the debt and devalue not to try to match Germany with hard currency and no tariffs in a common market, this is like facing the panzer in open ground.

KoTeMoRe wrote:growth with or without the Euro, within the Eurozone is nihil.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Looks like the Americans have pressured the Europeans into giving concessions. Tsirpas sounds very pleased about the result.

flamming_python wrote:Looks like the Americans have pressured the Europeans into giving concessions. Tsirpas sounds very pleased about the result.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Looks like the Americans have pressured the Europeans into giving concessions. Tsirpas sounds very pleased about the result.

There's only a 27 billion Swap so far from the First package to the second (thus from ECB bonds to EFSF). There are no other concessions, most funds will again go to interbanking consolidation. Tsipras looks relived because he can go on and lose his next elections with grace, but there's no other non-corrupt party out there that would want to deal with that plan with a 10k foot pole.

Frankly the only pressure the US might have put over the Germans is a retaliatory move on the TTiP and the fact Ze Germans said yes...

Greece has NOT reached a bailout deal in any way shape or form. What DID happen was Greece’s Prime Minister agreed to try and push a new austerity program through Greece’s parliament.
IF he can do this, and IF the Greek government agrees to the austerity program then NEGOTIATIONS (not a deal) can begin as to whether or not Greece should receive another bailout.
Put simply, Greece has THREE DAYS to agree to an austerity program in which it will hand over assets worth 25% of its GDP to the EU… at which time TALKS (again not a deal) COULD begin regarding a potential third Greek Bailout.

flamming_python wrote:Greeks are so funny.

They protest endlessly about the EU not humiliating them, taking away their sovereignty, or austerity, etc... but they themselves are not ready for any other direction than towards the EU.

It's a completely bizarre situation when the majority of Greeks say 'no' to austerity; which is the unconditional demand pressed upon them by their benefactors - but in opinion polls also state that they in their majority are for the EU and against any alternative directions such as towards BRICS/SCO.

I mean which is it? Either accept the conditions of the EU, or don't and find other alternatives to the EU - the Greeks seem to think they can have it both ways, like a spoiled child that has been given everything for free up until now, and expects that everyone will continue to accomodate them in the future too.
The Greeks are completely disconnected from the real world and how harsh it is out there; most countries do not have an economic union to balance their budget or provide funds, they have to do everything themselves. The Greeks are desperate to avoid becoming such a country, but at the same time they want to dictate conditions to the EU. Doesn't work that way.

Merkel and Hollande paid lip-service to the results of the Greek vote over a telephone conversation, saying that the people's choice in Greece 'must be respected'.
Of course this was a load of bosch, as fast-forward just one week, and the EU and Greece have worked out a deal; whatever the details, and austerity is still going full-steam ahead as planned.
Was just more smoke and mirrors by the Greek government, an action of no consenquence - no-one cares about the Greek people's opinions on austerity and that's a hard fact. The Greeks however, disconnected from the real world as they are, seemed to think that Germany would have to listen to them. Why?

I don't want to give an opinion on austerity, whether it's right or wrong or whatever; I'm not an economist. But I will say that 'my house, my rules'. It's Germany's house, and Germany's rules. No ifs, no buts.
If Greece doesn't want to accept austerity - then it always has a choice not to; and that choice is not to whine and winge and conduct populist referendums of no consenquence - it's to say sayonara to the EU, leave the Eurozone, and start working on alternatives for its future. There's always a choice, and that's the one the Greeks have.
If they don't want to take it - then fine, so just sit down and be quiet.