EU, ΙMF and Greece and Spending cut

We should throw Greece out of EU. Enough paying for these lazy bums.

They had enough time to learn how to run economy properly. Now it's ove.

The problem is that currency is not flexible... a strong currency suits some economies and does not suit other economies... if every country in the EU had the same products and services as France and Germany then the problem would be lack of diversity and real competition.

What the EU really needs is dual currency.

I proposed this a decade ago, but very simply you have the Euro and the Euro jnr. Both currencies are fixed to each other so one goes up, the other goes up, but the Euro jnr is 1/25th the value of the Euro... in other words one Euro equals 25 Euro Jnrs... you can use your Euros in any EU country and your Euro Jnrs in any EU country and the exporters of machine tools like Germany can enjoy cheap raw materials imports and cheap gas, while a service industry based country like Greece can benefit from European tourism, stay in the Euro zone and pay its bills eventually without having to sacrifice its old people and its young peoples education and future.

Countries can choose which money to base their economy but have a fixed period... say 5 or 10 years to allow a change... so they can't just flick between the two potential currencies just when it suits them.

Greece is just the leader of the pack in terms of economy... For Russia the disintegration of the EU would be OK... the disintegration of NATO would b rather better... For Greece I don't think it would be so good... and the other countries that follow it it wont be so good either.

Keep in mind Iceland... the EU doesn't really mention Iceland much now. But they had serious economic problems and they seem to have sorted them out rather more quickly than Greece or Ireland or Portugal.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:We should throw Greece out of EU. Enough paying for these lazy bums.

They had enough time to learn how to run economy properly. Now it's ove.

Plainly i have to bloody facepalm... just the usual nonsense that i hear from fellow germans "We pay them but they are just lazy, We are so hardworking..." Greeks have nothing to do with that, it is the PRivate BANKS that are in debt not the country itself, not because they do not work. They can't bring their economy back on its feet because of IMF Genocide, IMF gives loans only with very tight and specific orders, those rules and orders are not there so the country can actually become competative on market but so the State has to sell actual resources, social sector assets and state owned economical worthings. Austerity means, the country has to cut, payments, less payments means people have less to life upon, meaning they have nothing to spend, meaning they do not pay higher taxes of normal or wealthy incomes. Austerity means the countries competaty on the market is lowered, it can not produce for feasible prices and workforce with others.

That is like saying the germans are so freakish lazy people, they deserve to have 30-40% of people being homeless without pension after 2030. The problem is the corruption within the government and private banks and coprorations which avoid high payments and evade taxes by paying only netto payments while cutting the high brutto incomes which depletes the german pension funds, not only them alot of other funds of the social sector aswell. That has nothing to do with the people, it is plain and simple Tax evation and treason of all EU countries. Greeks are not to blame only private banks, i would have put them to death sentence, you can trust me such measures work wonders. Screw this pseudo civilized world of warmongers that are happy when millions day around the world but dare you jail some thief or warmonger politician of the western world, they are all holy spirits that only wish wealth and health for all people...

We need death penalty for politicians and lobbyists and private banks, right out ban anything private that is and should be state asset for any society.

I disagree with some of your opinions firstly just by doing Grexit and taking Greece into Eurasian bloc will not going to solve greece problems . Greece debt is going to remain as a major issue , China can't help greeks . They have to go hard way sorry they should have thought before falling in euro banksters arms .


Greeks must do an Iceland . That's the only solution . Iceland debt is lowering every fiscal . BE ready to accpet haircuts .


I would like to know what George1 thinks about his country fiasco .

max steel wrote:Greeks must do an Iceland . That's the only solution . Iceland debt is lowering every fiscal . BE ready to accpet haircuts .

But Iceland is a geographically isolated island of barely three hundred thousand inhabitants so they can show their collective middle finger to whoever they want and start paying in cod liver oil, shark fins and mackerels to anyone wanting to trade with them.

Some intelligence.
In Greece the foreign promoted establishment gives everything to keep the country as a Jewish vassal.
They really enrolled every ghost that destroyed the country the last 40 years and is still alive.
It is futile, Greece sooner or later will brake free, but the sons of Zion give a desperate battle.

Even if they do an Iceland the Greeks will suffer regardless, the question is whether they regain their sovereignty as a nation and at least dictate terms of their own suffering and have ability to decide how they wish to start again from the ashes - or not .




‪‎Greece‬'s finance minister at the 1953 London Conference, signing a treaty to cancel 50%(!) of Germany's debt, less than a decade after Nazi Germany was defeated and driven out of Greece.


The moral of this story? - No good deed goes unpunished...

Hannibal Barca wrote:Some intelligence.
In Greece the foreign promoted establishment gives everything to keep the country as a Jewish vassal.
They really enrolled every ghost that destroyed the country the last 40 years and is still alive.
It is futile, Greece sooner or later will brake free, but the sons of Zion give a desperate battle.

Just do the fu***** reforms and stop blaming your failures on mysterious dark forces. Other than incompetence of Greek government, how ddo you explai that literally everyone in EU (including Spaniards and Italians) is doing better than you? Jews certainly don't have any particular hate of Greeks... after all it's us Germans whom they should dread the most.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Other than incompetence of Greek government, how ddo you explai that literally everyone in EU (including Spaniards and Italians) is doing better than you?

It's explained by BCE bond buying spree. Spain and Italy are on a roll because tourists have been fleeing away from their competition after every violence outbreak.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:Some intelligence.
In Greece the foreign promoted establishment gives everything to keep the country as a Jewish vassal.
They really enrolled every ghost that destroyed the country the last 40 years and is still alive.
It is futile, Greece sooner or later will brake free, but the sons of Zion give a desperate battle.

Just do the fu***** reforms and stop blaming your failures on mysterious dark forces. Other than incompetence of Greek government, how ddo you explai that literally everyone in EU (including Spaniards and Italians) is doing better than you? Jews certainly don't have any particular hate of Greeks... after all it's us Germans whom they should dread the most.

You have no saying. You are an occupied territory and do as they say those that still have boot on German soil.
Greece should leave EU and default on it's loans because the hard currency and the unsustainable debt perpetuate the problem.
Also losing the ECB funds will help them realize their own mistakes, now they get enough volatility to remain hostages in this slavery.
Problem is anglozionists can't afford to lose control of Greece so they order their vassals in EU but also their Maidanists inside Greece to take
the necessary actions to keep this situation going.
Spain and Italy still hang on for the simple reason that they are in better condition, with better economies, more advanced systems, better mentalities.
They 'll still go down but it will take longer than Greece.
GarryB outlined the situation pretty well.

Occupied by whom? Speak for yourself. I know what shape my country is in and I don't feel that it's being occupied by anyone.

Ok, if you leave EU the rest of us will not have to suppoer you anymore. What will you do, then? Do Greeks actually WANT to leave EU or t's just you?

Just do the fu***** reforms and stop blaming your failures on mysterious dark forces. Other than incompetence of Greek government, how ddo you explai that literally everyone in EU (including Spaniards and Italians) is doing better than you? Jews certainly don't have any particular hate of Greeks... after all it's us Germans whom they should dread the most.

Go, cut your wrists the IMF told you so, you will feel better afterwards. That is what the fucking IMF does to countries. There is not a single fucking success story of IMF meddling and dictating around how a country has to adjust their economy to get on their feet back. The problems are coming from PRIVATE BANKS, that are stealing money and buying money from central banks to conditions and are then translating those debts to the state due the IMF lobbysts in the government. Those debts are not made by the country itself, nor by the citizens only IMF and Private Banks are sponsible. Having Private banks that are interested in PRIVATE profits can't work in the benefit of a Government and the countries citizens, it is plain corruption, period.

Occupied by whom? Speak for yourself. I know what shape my country is in and I don't feel that it's being occupied by anyone.

Ok, if you leave EU the rest of us will not have to suppoer you anymore. What will you do, then? Do Greeks actually WANT to leave EU or t's just you?

You are right we are not occupied.

I just will list a few laws here that tell beyond doubt how unoccupied we are.

Artikel 139)

Artikel 139

Die zur "Befreiung des deutschen Volkes vom Nationalsozialismus und Militarismus" erlassenen Rechtsvorschriften werden von den Bestimmungen dieses Grundgesetzes nicht berührt.

For the "liberation of the German people from national socialism and militarism" legislation adopted by the provisions of this basic law shall not be affected.

Meaning the SMAD (Soviet Military Administrative District) and the SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force) meaning the 1945 Military Districts of East and West still have their laws above our "basic law" which is to us sold as a Constitution which the Basic Law itself says that it is not a Constitution. Meaning this so called Germany is still under the control of SHAEF, Soviets or gone, american occupiers and invaders have never left, they are not our allies, they are our occupants.

Artikel 146

Dieses Grundgesetz, das nach Vollendung der Einheit und Freiheit Deutschlands für das gesamte deutsche Volk gilt, verliert seine Gültigkeit an dem Tage, an dem eine Verfassung in Kraft tritt, die von dem deutschen Volke in freier Entscheidung beschlossen worden ist.


Article 146

This Basic Law, after the completion of the unity and freedom of Germany for the entire German people, shall lose its validity on the day on which a Constitution enters into force, the by the German people in a free decision has been decided.

Meaning we still have a Basic Law that was made under the Leadership and overview of the SHAEF and SMAD and placed above us but beneath their Laws, which means we are slaves, period.

1990 the GG Artikel 23 was deleted. It does not exist anymore. The Artikel 23 defined the Boundaries of Basic Law of Germany and in which regions (states and countries boarders) where clearly defined like the UN Charta demands of countries for a clear definition of laws on defined states with defined boarders, because laws without boundries or boarders have no validity in UN courts.

Today the GG Artikel 23 states that "Germany" (without defined boarders) is obligated to force and support the EU and other countries integration into EU... bla bla. Very long text very anti-culture and anti-souvereignity.



So much for we are not occupied. American Nukes in Rammstein Airforce Base which Germans pay for with taxes, while no german is allowed to check even into the Base and never has seen how nukes are stored and why the fuck we have nukes in Germany which makes us a High Priority Number 1 Target for any other country with Nukes like Russia.

Always nice feeling knowing you are just a humanshield for our friend and equal allies the americans, who do not think off themselfs as being exceptional...

We are occupied, we have no rights, we have no constitution, we have and never had freedom, we are a humanshield for the 3rd time of the anglo-sacksons attempt of enslaving russia and getting the richest country on earth under their fingernail in their crusade of their believes of being a superior race along with Zionazis who are using the anglo-sacksons as their puppets.

IMF meddling is everywhere, not just Greece. So it's not the main factor affecting economic shape of countries in EU. The difference is that some countries - we for example - but also Austrians, the Dutch, Belgians, Scandinavians and a few others - know how to get things in order. Greeks don't.

The reason why "proper" constitution was not adopted is becasue the Basic Law fulfils it's purpose well. There is no need to invent something new. The articles quoted by you are in fact dead. They are not used in practice.

People like you are strange. You claim that we are occupied by someone (I guess it's Anglo-"Sucksons") but at the same time you NEVER provide any vision (not to mention a coherent one) of what advantages exactly would ending that "occupation" bring and, what would our country look like and what would I as a common man, gain from that.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:IMF meddling is everywhere, not just Greece. So it's not the main factor affecting economic shape of countries in EU.  The difference is that some countries - we for example - but also Austrians, the Dutch, Belgians, Scandinavians and a few others - know how to get things in order. Greeks don't.

The reason why "proper" constitution was not adopted is becasue the Basic Law fulfils it's purpose well. There is no need to invent something new. The articles quoted by you are in fact dead. They are not used in practice.

People like you are strange. You claim that we are occupied by someone (I guess it's Anglo-"Sucksons") but at the same time you NEVER provide any vision (not to mention a coherent one) of what advantages exactly would ending that "occupation" bring and, what would our country look like and what would I as a common man, gain from that.

We know jackshit, because if we wanted to get shit to be done we would never accept EU. The wages have been diminished and are shrinking, not raising. Under the EURO only the CEO's make more money while constantly wages for working class getting lower but living, rents, taxes and insurance rose over the years and will always do.

No the Basic Law does not fulfill any purpose and leaving the SMAD and SHAEF above our so called "Constitution" diminishes the entire bullshit story of we being souvereign, you can't be souvereign when other countries have Laws above your so called Constitution. Yes there is an imidiate need to get a souvereignity and chase the dogs out of our country. They are not dead, they are all actual and in full order. They are used in practice, fucking US dictating around what germany does proofs me to 100% correct the US dictates around not we.

NO FUCKING WAR NO HUMANSHIELD for the fucking anglos, that is your benefit of being free, no lower wages, no war mongering for US, no private banks dictating around politics and economy, no obligation to other countries, no cultural and historical destruction in germany by EU and USA. Stay a slave, i don't see you as an equal if you so orderly and willingly take submissive position, people like you are the problem of all countries. Liability to every citizen.

AGAIN - speak for yourself. I am not I slave. I can work whereever I want and in whatever profession. I can attend any educational institution I want to attend. If I want to, I can freelty move to Norway or Sicily or France. I can practice any religion I want to or even invent a new one and start preaching it. Or become a politician. This is exactly the very definition of freedom - things many people on earth would like to enjoy but don't. What else should I want?

You've defined your "freedom" in such a strict, abstract way that I don't know one country that fulfills your definition of "freedom". Right, throw US troops out by force, leave NATO, leave EU and let our country become another international pariah for the sake of fighting some "Anglo-Saxon domination" for God knows what reason.

Geez dude. I WANT GERMANY YO STAY AS IT IS - a strong European country with advanced economy, exports to lots of countries and good relations with as many countries as possible, including the US. The only thing I miss is a strong army. I don't want us to become another North Korea or Iran, poor, isolated with embargoes from US and all major western nations. This is the direction we would head in if you seized power. Thanks but I say nope.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:AGAIN - speak for yourself. I am not I slave. I can work whereever I want and in whatever profession. I can attend any educational institution I want to attend. If I want to, I can freelty move to Norway or Sicily or France. I can practice any religion I want to or even invent a new one and start preaching it. Or become a politician. This is exactly the very definition of freedom - things many people on earth would like to enjoy but don't. What else should I want?

You've defined your "freedom" in such a strict, abstract way that I don't know one country that fulfills your definition of "freedom". Right, throw US troops out by force, leave NATO, leave EU and let our country become another international pariah for the sake of fighting some "Anglo-Saxon domination" for God knows what reason.

Geez dude. I WANT GERMANY YO STAY AS IT IS - a strong European country with advanced economy, exports to lots of countries and good relations with as many countries as possible, including the US. The only thing I miss is a strong army. I don't want us to become another North Korea or Iran, poor, isolated with embargoes from US and all major western nations. This is the direction we would head in if you seized power. Thanks but I say nope.

Nice... we have a german TR1, knows nothing about politics, thinks all is fine in this shithole the country is right now... you should refrain from political threads, not relly versed on those.

Bombshell of the century: IMF director Paolo Batista admits that $240 Billion of bailout money sent to Samaras govt. was a cover to bailout German and French banks, while Greeks were forced to pick up the tab:

“to save German & French banks”

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:AGAIN - speak for yourself. I am not I slave. I can work whereever I want and in whatever profession. I can attend any educational institution I want to attend. If I want to, I can freelty move to Norway or Sicily or France. I can practice any religion I want to or even invent a new one and start preaching it. Or become a politician. This is exactly the very definition of freedom - things many people on earth would like to enjoy but don't. What else should I want?

You've defined your "freedom" in such a strict, abstract way that I don't know one country that fulfills your definition of "freedom". Right, throw US troops out by force, leave NATO, leave EU and let our country become another international pariah for the sake of fighting some "Anglo-Saxon domination" for God knows what reason.

Geez dude. I WANT GERMANY YO STAY AS IT IS - a strong European country with advanced economy, exports to lots of countries and good relations with as many countries as possible, including the US. The only thing I miss is a strong army. I don't want us to become another North Korea or Iran, poor, isolated with embargoes from US and all major western nations. This is the direction we would head in if you seized power. Thanks but I say nope.

You can't even stage a referendum for Christ shake since it is forbidden by your legislation because draws resemblance to the Hitler regime allegedly.
Just to begin with go out and say that the crematorium you see in Dachau was build after the war,
which is a fact or that Zyklon B can't vaporize in room temperatures or that the gas chambers are
below the surface level which is totally counter productive for carrying the dead bodies
or that the pictures with the dead people in piles feature English bulldozers and you are guaranteed a thriving career in jail.
There are no examples of occupation troops staged in a country 70 years after the end of a war in human history.
Carthage never had Roman troops, Paris had troops stationed only for a few months after the end of Napoleonic wars or the Franco-Prussian war,
German and Japan still have them 70 years after the peace treaty, what do you think they are doing there?
So much free you are.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Occupied by whom?

I'll tell you by whom you're occupied: by the US, obviously. Or don't you have US nukes still installed in your territory, so as to blackmail Germany from pivoting towards Rússia and to become nuclear cannon fodder in case of WWIII?

I agree with the view that the Iceland solution is the way to go for Greece.

Unfortunately not likely to happen, according to William Engdahl, the Greek Fin-Min is a Trojan Horse

Is Varoufakis Eurozone's Trojan Horse in Greece's Government?

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150704/1024206753.html#ixzz3eyGWQmT0

Kyo wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Occupied by whom?

I'll tell you by whom you're occupied: by the US, obviously. Or don't you have US nukes still installed in your territory, so as to blackmail Germany from pivoting towards Rússia and to become nuclear cannon fodder in case of WWIII?

Chances of major war in Europe are nil. They're so minimal that it's more probable to win a lottery twice in a row.

We are a country with a very difficult history. We caused two world wars that cost the world dozens of millions of dead. It's perfectly normal that other countries want to make sure we never blow up Europe from inside again.

TOday we're EU's strongest economy, world's 3rd largest exporter and we enjoy among the highest standards of living in the world - and that duits me. If you guys don't like it -go to Venezuela or North Korea and you'll have your "freedom" and "independence". I have no need for them.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:

Kyo wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Occupied by whom?

I'll tell you by whom you're occupied: by the US, obviously. Or don't you have US nukes still installed in your territory, so as to blackmail Germany from pivoting towards Rússia and to become nuclear cannon fodder in case of WWIII?

Chances of major war in Europe are nil. They're so minimal that it's more probable to win a lottery twice in a row.

We are a country with a very difficult history. We caused two world wars that cost the world dozens of millions of dead. It's perfectly normal that other countries want to make sure we never blow up Europe from inside again.

TOday we're EU's strongest economy, world's 3rd largest exporter and we enjoy among the highest standards of living in the world - and that duits me. If you guys don't like it -go to Venezuela or North Korea and you'll have your "freedom" and "independence". I have no need for them.

Please refrain off speaking for all germans, people like you, castrated fools are not the germans, people like you are the problem.
We did not incite the World Wars, anglo sucksons did. Germany became powerful the British Empire did not want to see anyone besides them in such political, econmoical and military power, so WW1 started, WW2 is based soley on WW1 so called Peace Treaty or the Vairsailles war treaty which set stone for WW2, regardless if Hitler or anyone else WW2 was planned and WW3 is planned.

Our economy is non existent you are only fooling yourself. Do you even understand why our economy is so "high". It is fictional. We sell cars, industrial machinery and all other german goods on CREDIT, we do not get paid by EU nor by US, we only get fictional debts written on our head, US never can pay back its debts everyone knows that. So biggest economy in EU only on paper, we do not make actual money. Our so called high living standards are diminishing, we do not have such high standards and our social sector gets privatized that is a destruction of living standards. Rents gets higher, wages geting lower, TTIP is pressed through this dictatorship which will be the Nail in the coffin for entire EU and especially Germany, you won't find anything of quality then. Privatized Hospitals with own price tags, your insurancy is already private they will not pay jackshit when Hospitals are privatized meaning our health care is already low and gets only lower. So much for your high living standards, you have never even researched any other country what means high living standards. If you like Freedom and high living standards so much and all this bullcrap US waves its flag with why you dont go to the so prosperous USA with 60 mln who can't feed themselfs and have to live on Food stamps?