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4 th Independent Tank Battalion "August"
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Novorossiya Armed Forces (NAF)
George1- Posts : 18524
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Walther von Oldenburg- Posts : 1725
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IS that a new unit?
medo- Posts : 4343
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Walther von Oldenburg wrote:IS that a new unit?
From August last year. It's name is from a month of creation - August.
franco
franco- Posts : 7057
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George1 wrote:4 th Independent Tank Battalion "August"
4 Tank companies (40)
Motor rifle company (BMP)
Artillery battalion
- SPH battery
- FH battery
- MRL battery
That is a nice strike force.
sepheronx- Posts : 8852
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Do we know how many fighters are in NAF?
franco- Posts : 7057
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sepheronx wrote:Do we know how many fighters are in NAF?
I think the best info would be ~35,000 regulars with another ~35,000 reservist.
sepheronx- Posts : 8852
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franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:Do we know how many fighters are in NAF?
I think the best info would be ~35,000 regulars with another ~35,000 reservist.
Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
Now with the issue of Rusich leaving, they are screwed, aren't they.
ExBeobachter1987- Posts : 441
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sepheronx wrote:Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
In theory or in reality?
sepheronx wrote:Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
The gap is much smaller than it was one year ago.
sepheronx- Posts : 8852
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ExBeobachter1987 wrote:sepheronx wrote:Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
In theory or in reality?
Well, media on both sides were stating the same thing, so I would figure that with truth being somewhere in the middle, it is the truth.sepheronx wrote:Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
The gap is much smaller than it was one year ago.
Yes, I understand that Pukes have something like 70 - 80K on the borders with Novorussia. But with units leaving in protest, I have little faith in the NAF. Giving up territory to OSCE whom are untrustworthy and are scam artists, was a bad idea. Keeping them around is a bad idea. Not firing back at Ukrops is a bad idea. A lot of bad ideas that may warrant an overthrow of the NAF leaders when people had enough being tortured by the Ukrops.
franco- Posts : 7057
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sepheronx wrote:franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:Do we know how many fighters are in NAF?
I think the best info would be ~35,000 regulars with another ~35,000 reservist.
Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
Now with the issue of Rusich leaving, they are screwed, aren't they.
Transistria only has about 500,000 people so the 50,000 would be about every male between 18 and 45. Dubious at best, would expect the actual trained and equipped to be around 10,000 and I have actually seen a figure of 9,000.
Remember the NAF are all volunteers, experienced, highly motivated and a lot of the reservist have also had combat experience. The UAF would have 20,000 at best equivalent, plus the rest would be poorly trained, equipped and with low morale... ready to bolt or surrender not fight.
sepheronx- Posts : 8852
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franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:Do we know how many fighters are in NAF?
I think the best info would be ~35,000 regulars with another ~35,000 reservist.
Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
Now with the issue of Rusich leaving, they are screwed, aren't they.
Transistria only has about 500,000 people so the 50,000 would be about every male between 18 and 45. Dubious at best, would expect the actual trained and equipped to be around 10,000 and I have actually seen a figure of 9,000.
Remember the NAF are all volunteers, experienced, highly motivated and a lot of the reservist have also had combat experience. The UAF would have 20,000 at best equivalent, plus the rest would be poorly trained, equipped and with low morale... ready to bolt or surrender not fight.
So the 35,000 and 35,000 reservists are what current figure are, even after the leaving of Rusich or whatever the name is?
franco- Posts : 7057
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sepheronx wrote:franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:Do we know how many fighters are in NAF?
I think the best info would be ~35,000 regulars with another ~35,000 reservist.
Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
Now with the issue of Rusich leaving, they are screwed, aren't they.
Transistria only has about 500,000 people so the 50,000 would be about every male between 18 and 45. Dubious at best, would expect the actual trained and equipped to be around 10,000 and I have actually seen a figure of 9,000.
Remember the NAF are all volunteers, experienced, highly motivated and a lot of the reservist have also had combat experience. The UAF would have 20,000 at best equivalent, plus the rest would be poorly trained, equipped and with low morale... ready to bolt or surrender not fight.
So the 35,000 and 35,000 reservists are what current figure are, even after the leaving of Rusich or whatever the name is?
That was a very small unit, probably had to do as much with the Donbas authorities tightening control over the volunteer groups. The NAF has had to do the same thing as UAF in gaining control of the volunteer units, however they have been more successful.
sepheronx- Posts : 8852
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franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:franco wrote:sepheronx wrote:Do we know how many fighters are in NAF?
I think the best info would be ~35,000 regulars with another ~35,000 reservist.
Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
Now with the issue of Rusich leaving, they are screwed, aren't they.
Transistria only has about 500,000 people so the 50,000 would be about every male between 18 and 45. Dubious at best, would expect the actual trained and equipped to be around 10,000 and I have actually seen a figure of 9,000.
Remember the NAF are all volunteers, experienced, highly motivated and a lot of the reservist have also had combat experience. The UAF would have 20,000 at best equivalent, plus the rest would be poorly trained, equipped and with low morale... ready to bolt or surrender not fight.
So the 35,000 and 35,000 reservists are what current figure are, even after the leaving of Rusich or whatever the name is?
That was a very small unit, probably had to do as much with the Donbas authorities tightening control over the volunteer groups. The NAF has had to do the same thing as UAF in gaining control of the volunteer units, however they have been more successful.
OK, so NAF is pretty much taking control of all volunteer units and making them official NAF military, correct? As well, where did you find the reserve numbers? If that is the case, then ok, I suppose the forces are quite large. As well, I heard rumors of a NAF military bases opening up recently, are these true as well?
franco- Posts : 7057
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OK, so NAF is pretty much taking control of all volunteer units and making them official NAF military, correct? As well, where did you find the reserve numbers? If that is the case, then ok, I suppose the forces are quite large. As well, I heard rumors of a NAF military bases opening up recently, are these true as well?
Correct.
The Reserve figure comes from the NAF plan to recruit a 100,000 force but then downsized to 70-75,000 due to shortage of equipment. Zakharchenko stated around the time of the 1st year anniversary that Donetsk had 23,000 regulars and 30,000 reservist (plus whatever Lugansk contributed). Lugansk has about half the population of Donetsk.
The NAF has been organized into a full military force.
Correct.
The Reserve figure comes from the NAF plan to recruit a 100,000 force but then downsized to 70-75,000 due to shortage of equipment. Zakharchenko stated around the time of the 1st year anniversary that Donetsk had 23,000 regulars and 30,000 reservist (plus whatever Lugansk contributed). Lugansk has about half the population of Donetsk.
The NAF has been organized into a full military force.
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NAF finishes large training exercises in Lugansk;
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fdefense_safety%2F&sandbox=1
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fdefense_safety%2F&sandbox=1
franco- Posts : 7057
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Changes to the Donetsk Ministry of Defense explained;
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://warfiles.ru/show-92065-ministerstvo-oborony-dnr-reorganizovano-genshtab-vzyal-na-sebya-upravlenie.html&usg=ALkJrhhD6tjJ_wN3lhlOhnC41Pltg5PsTw
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://warfiles.ru/show-92065-ministerstvo-oborony-dnr-reorganizovano-genshtab-vzyal-na-sebya-upravlenie.html&usg=ALkJrhhD6tjJ_wN3lhlOhnC41Pltg5PsTw
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sepheronx wrote:ExBeobachter1987 wrote:sepheronx wrote:Pretty sad numbers when Transistria was able to get upwards to 50,000 for being much smaller.
In theory or in reality?
Well, media on both sides were stating the same thing, so I would figure that with truth being somewhere in the middle, it is the truth.sepheronx wrote:Add in, Ukrops have a lot more people at frontlines.
The gap is much smaller than it was one year ago.
Yes, I understand that Pukes have something like 70 - 80K on the borders with Novorussia. But with units leaving in protest, I have little faith in the NAF. Giving up territory to OSCE whom are untrustworthy and are scam artists, was a bad idea. Keeping them around is a bad idea. Not firing back at Ukrops is a bad idea. A lot of bad ideas that may warrant an overthrow of the NAF leaders when people had enough being tortured by the Ukrops.
I think Putin and his government have the final say on these matters.
The leadership of the New Russia cannot do much without the help from the Russian Federation, so the government of the latter dictates the terms here.
franco- Posts : 7057
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NAF ORBAT
- based on previous information released on this thread plus further research. Considering the circumstances not sure how accurate but it gives some picture.
1ST Army Corps (Donetsk)
1st Motor Rifle Brigade "Slavic" - appears to defend Donetsk
3rd Motor Rifle Brigade "Berkut" - Gorlovka area to Lugansk Republic
5th Motor Rifle Brigade "Republican Guard" -reserve reaction force. Has 2-4 Motor Rifle battalions and 2 Tank battalions including the "Diesel" Tank Battalion Tactical Group
6th Motor Rifle Brigade - appears to incorporate the various small militia units from Donetsk south
7th Motor Rifle Brigade - appears to defend the southern zone facing Mariupol
1st Battalion Tactical Group "Somalia" - defends airport zone
? Naval Infantry Battalion "Sparta" - official commando type force of the NAF, apparently includes some members with para training
? Artillery Brigade "Kalmius" - miner division, heavy artillery and air defense
1st Spetsnaz Force - may be regiment size reconnaissance and special forces
? Military Commandant Regiment - military police security type force. Probably includes reconnaissance and reaction battalions plus companies / platoons stationed throughout Republic
2ND Army Corps (Lugansk)
2nd Motor Rifle Brigade - includes the "Zarya, Don and Bully" battalions, very regular army mobile type brigade
4th Motor Rifle Brigade - incorporates the various militia units guarding the front lines, static defense
? Battalion Tactical Group "August" - mobile reserve force
4th Territorial Defense Battalion "Ghost Brigade" - nicknamed a brigade but appears to be a Battalion Tactical Group (claims to have 3,000)
1st Cossack Regiment "Great Don Army" - not sure of the size but would be at least a Battalion Tactical Group (claims to have 4,000)
? Artillery Brigade - heavy artillery and air defense
2nd Spetsnaz Force - probably battalion size reconnaissance and special forces
? Military Commandant Regiment - military police security type force. Probably includes reconnaissance and reaction battalions plus companies / platoons stationed throughout Republic
Aviation Unit - a couple of planes and a few helicopters
Ministry of the Interior
At least 3 Interior Troops Security battalions
Berkut battalion
TANK FORCE
There appears to be 6 tank battalions (30-40 per) and 6-7 separate companies (10 per). This would give a total force of between 240 to 310 tanks.
- based on previous information released on this thread plus further research. Considering the circumstances not sure how accurate but it gives some picture.
1ST Army Corps (Donetsk)
1st Motor Rifle Brigade "Slavic" - appears to defend Donetsk
3rd Motor Rifle Brigade "Berkut" - Gorlovka area to Lugansk Republic
5th Motor Rifle Brigade "Republican Guard" -reserve reaction force. Has 2-4 Motor Rifle battalions and 2 Tank battalions including the "Diesel" Tank Battalion Tactical Group
6th Motor Rifle Brigade - appears to incorporate the various small militia units from Donetsk south
7th Motor Rifle Brigade - appears to defend the southern zone facing Mariupol
1st Battalion Tactical Group "Somalia" - defends airport zone
? Naval Infantry Battalion "Sparta" - official commando type force of the NAF, apparently includes some members with para training
? Artillery Brigade "Kalmius" - miner division, heavy artillery and air defense
1st Spetsnaz Force - may be regiment size reconnaissance and special forces
? Military Commandant Regiment - military police security type force. Probably includes reconnaissance and reaction battalions plus companies / platoons stationed throughout Republic
2ND Army Corps (Lugansk)
2nd Motor Rifle Brigade - includes the "Zarya, Don and Bully" battalions, very regular army mobile type brigade
4th Motor Rifle Brigade - incorporates the various militia units guarding the front lines, static defense
? Battalion Tactical Group "August" - mobile reserve force
4th Territorial Defense Battalion "Ghost Brigade" - nicknamed a brigade but appears to be a Battalion Tactical Group (claims to have 3,000)
1st Cossack Regiment "Great Don Army" - not sure of the size but would be at least a Battalion Tactical Group (claims to have 4,000)
? Artillery Brigade - heavy artillery and air defense
2nd Spetsnaz Force - probably battalion size reconnaissance and special forces
? Military Commandant Regiment - military police security type force. Probably includes reconnaissance and reaction battalions plus companies / platoons stationed throughout Republic
Aviation Unit - a couple of planes and a few helicopters
Ministry of the Interior
At least 3 Interior Troops Security battalions
Berkut battalion
TANK FORCE
There appears to be 6 tank battalions (30-40 per) and 6-7 separate companies (10 per). This would give a total force of between 240 to 310 tanks.
Last edited by franco on Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
George1- Posts : 18524
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DPR pulls 41 tanks and 84 armoured infantry carriers from engagement line
franco- Posts : 7057
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Article on some NAF units with photos and unit crests;
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1397314.html
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1397314.html
franco- Posts : 7057
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An update on Ukrainian forces (ORBAT) opposing the NAF in the Donbas.
- includes forces in Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Zaporozhye (rumored to be a mechanized brigade/regiment in reserve in each Region)
UKRAINE ARMY
Armored - 1st and 17th brigades
Mechanized - 24th, 28th, 30th, 72nd, 92nd and 93rd brigades
Mountain - 128th brigades
Airborne - 25th, 79th, 80th and 95th brigades
Artillery - 26th, 55th and possibly 1 unknown
Rocket Artillery - 1 or 2 battalions of the 19th Rocket brigade, 107th MRL brigade and possibly 1 unknown
Special Forces - 2nd regiment and possibly 1 unknown
Infantry (Mobilized Reserve) - 9th, 13th, 17th, 18th, 20th, 34th and 42nd Brigades (or may only be regiments, possibly 1-2 unknowns)
NATIONAL GUARD
2 Regiments
20-23 battalions
- includes forces in Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Zaporozhye (rumored to be a mechanized brigade/regiment in reserve in each Region)
UKRAINE ARMY
Armored - 1st and 17th brigades
Mechanized - 24th, 28th, 30th, 72nd, 92nd and 93rd brigades
Mountain - 128th brigades
Airborne - 25th, 79th, 80th and 95th brigades
Artillery - 26th, 55th and possibly 1 unknown
Rocket Artillery - 1 or 2 battalions of the 19th Rocket brigade, 107th MRL brigade and possibly 1 unknown
Special Forces - 2nd regiment and possibly 1 unknown
Infantry (Mobilized Reserve) - 9th, 13th, 17th, 18th, 20th, 34th and 42nd Brigades (or may only be regiments, possibly 1-2 unknowns)
NATIONAL GUARD
2 Regiments
20-23 battalions
George1- Posts : 18524
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Self-proclaimed Donetsk republic to hold first-ever tank biathlon contest
Tank biathlon is believed to be a brainchild of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu
MOSCOW, August 13. /TASS/. The defense ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk republic will hold its first-ever tank biathlon contest for local militias and self-defense forces from the neighboring self-proclaimed Luhansk republic, the command of the Donetsk armour units said on Thursday.
"The command of the Donetsk People’s Republic Defense Ministry corps has made a decision to hold the republic’s first ever tank biathlon contest. Tank crews from Donetsk and Luhansk will compete in tank driving skills and fire accuracy," the Donetsk News Agency quotes the report as saying.
The armour units’ spokesman said the contests would be held for improving the tank crews’ combat readiness. The militias will be competing in the rapidity of fire accuracy, target reconnaissance and driving skills.
Tank biathlon is a contest for tank crews competing in driving armored vehicles and accuracy of fire. Of late, it was gaining ever-greater popularity in some post-Soviet countries. It is believed to be a brainchild of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu.
The first international competition was held in August 2013 in Alabino, a town to the southwest of Moscow, with participating crews from Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia. According to the rules of tank biathlon, crews must navigate a distance of up to 20 kilometres (12.5 miles) negotiating various obstacles, crossing rivers and bridges and shooting at a set of targets. Tanks that miss a target get a penalty lap.
Tank biathlon is believed to be a brainchild of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu
MOSCOW, August 13. /TASS/. The defense ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk republic will hold its first-ever tank biathlon contest for local militias and self-defense forces from the neighboring self-proclaimed Luhansk republic, the command of the Donetsk armour units said on Thursday.
"The command of the Donetsk People’s Republic Defense Ministry corps has made a decision to hold the republic’s first ever tank biathlon contest. Tank crews from Donetsk and Luhansk will compete in tank driving skills and fire accuracy," the Donetsk News Agency quotes the report as saying.
The armour units’ spokesman said the contests would be held for improving the tank crews’ combat readiness. The militias will be competing in the rapidity of fire accuracy, target reconnaissance and driving skills.
Tank biathlon is a contest for tank crews competing in driving armored vehicles and accuracy of fire. Of late, it was gaining ever-greater popularity in some post-Soviet countries. It is believed to be a brainchild of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu.
The first international competition was held in August 2013 in Alabino, a town to the southwest of Moscow, with participating crews from Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia. According to the rules of tank biathlon, crews must navigate a distance of up to 20 kilometres (12.5 miles) negotiating various obstacles, crossing rivers and bridges and shooting at a set of targets. Tanks that miss a target get a penalty lap.
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Not being very au fait with the subject, roughly how many men would make up a brigade/battalion/regiment? At full strength that is, as it is possible some of the above formations may not be.franco wrote:An update on Ukrainian forces (ORBAT) opposing the NAF in the Donbas.
- includes forces in Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Zaporozhye (rumored to be a mechanized brigade/regiment in reserve in each Region)
UKRAINE ARMY
Armored - 1st and 17th brigades
Mechanized - 24th, 28th, 30th, 72nd, 92nd and 93rd brigades
Mountain - 128th brigades
Airborne - 25th, 79th, 80th and 95th brigades
Artillery - 26th, 55th and possibly 1 unknown
Rocket Artillery - 1 or 2 battalions of the 19th Rocket brigade, 107th MRL brigade and possibly 1 unknown
Special Forces - 2nd regiment and possibly 1 unknown
Infantry (Mobilized Reserve) - 9th, 13th, 17th, 18th, 20th, 34th and 42nd Brigades (or may only be regiments, possibly 1-2 unknowns)
NATIONAL GUARD
2 Regiments
20-23 battalions
franco- Posts : 7057
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Join date : 2010-08-18
A lot depends on what type of support is attached to the brigade. If it is a company of engineers or a battalion, same for artillery units etc. From figures I have seen for the UAF would suspect the following;
Mechanized & Mountain brigade = ~3,500
Armored & Airborne brigades = ~2,500
Artillery & Special Forces = 1,000 -1,500
Infantry regiment/brigade = ~2,500
National Guard regiments = 1,000-1,500
National Guard battalions = 400-500
The totals vary from 64,000-70,000 just in the Donbas area, there are some of these units as reserve in the 3 surrounding regions plus other support elements.
Mechanized & Mountain brigade = ~3,500
Armored & Airborne brigades = ~2,500
Artillery & Special Forces = 1,000 -1,500
Infantry regiment/brigade = ~2,500
National Guard regiments = 1,000-1,500
National Guard battalions = 400-500
The totals vary from 64,000-70,000 just in the Donbas area, there are some of these units as reserve in the 3 surrounding regions plus other support elements.
franco- Posts : 7057
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Interfax news - Around 8,000 Ukrainian officers sided with enemy in Crimea, Donbas - Ukraine's military prosecutor general
Considering 2,600 joined the Russian Armed Forces plus 500-1,000 the Russian Border Guard, Coast Guard and Troops of the Interior. That leaves around 4,500 to man the NAF... guess they don't need those thousands of Russian officers as claimed.
EDIT; Tass reports the same story different. Their version is that 8,000 soldiers and policeman have switched sides to the NAF.
http://tass.ru/en/world/814303
Considering 2,600 joined the Russian Armed Forces plus 500-1,000 the Russian Border Guard, Coast Guard and Troops of the Interior. That leaves around 4,500 to man the NAF... guess they don't need those thousands of Russian officers as claimed.
EDIT; Tass reports the same story different. Their version is that 8,000 soldiers and policeman have switched sides to the NAF.
http://tass.ru/en/world/814303