PAK-TA Supersonic Transport aircraft

WELL WHAT TO SAY !  


Future Russian army could deploy anywhere in the world – in 7 hours        


7,000-km-range supersonic plane delivering 400 next-gen tanks - details of secret Russian military 'PAK TA' program leaked   . A beautiful design somewhat looking like B-2 yankee bomber .  



http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/3b/1b/10/00/uggjffkou8q.si.jpg



http://rt.com/news/242097-pak-ta-russian-army/

This is a potentially massive development for the Russian armed forces.

http://rt.com/news/242097-pak-ta-russian-army/

Also worth checking out the link at RT

Discussions of a plan to build 80, that would move 400 tanks anywhere in the world within 7 hours.
Initially planned to be 2000kph with a large range, ie 7000km is being talked about. Serial production might begin in 2024

Ofcourse this might not happen. But if it did, it could be a massive gamechanger.

_______________________________
We think of large supersonic or even hypersonic planes as something from  the future.
But throughout the Cold War 1, Russia and America spent lots of time developing possible hyper or supersonic very large jets.

Russia almost went the route of hypersonic planes as far back as the 1950s and 60s, I think. But they decided ICBMs were better.

Russia then built large supersonic planes like the Tu-144, then the Tu-160, and also had a Sukhoi very large plane.

Clearly it has had technologies for the PAK-TA for a long time. The question is value for money and affordability. With 21st century discoveries, I wonder what ambitious plans from the Soviet era can be dusted off an renewed with new materials, technologies etc.

I don't think we're gonna see this sort of plan overnight. Maybe by the mid/late 2020s, but if it did happen there would be big implications for Russian strategic plans. And for geopolitics.

1stly on strategic plans, Russia could be much more flexible in the command centres with its borders.
There are potential fronts in East Asia/Pacific, the Caucuses, the Arctic, maybe the West too. Further afield there is the Middle East, and maybe even Cuba/Venezuela defence etc.

A ship might take 20 something days to reach Latin America. Getting from the West to Eastern Russia by ship is a nightmare. The PAK TA takes all that problem out.

It could defend a country against massive attack in hours not weeks.

PAK TAs could be used as huge refuellers, as airborne ABM systems, even nuclear powered laser defence systems.

Hundreds of fighters and bombers could be sent within hours. Next, SAM missile installations could be sent. Later, tanks and ground troops could be sent.

This could mean Russia could set up its own equivalent of NATO for South America, or for the Pacific Rim, Africa or many other places. It could guarantee its partners against attack without the need for nuclear strikes.

That could set up Russia as a "global guarantor of stability" and mean Russia COULD have a dominant financial system, in the way America has had with NATO and its huge navies/airlift capacity etc.

Ofcourse, it could also be misused. Or it might never be developed. Who knows?

But its certainly an interesting development.

it is just an artist concept, and maybe remain as that forever

George1 wrote:it is just an artist concept, and maybe remain as that forever

Correct. The concept pics are done by an artist. Albeit one of them was at Volga-Dnieper freight.

But a supersonic cargo jet wouldn't be hard. Just look at what was being produced with the Tu144 and Tu160.

There are also huge hypersonic plane plans from the 80s, 70s and even 50s and 60s.

Naturally the 2000kph variant would come first. Its not a big leap for Russia in tech terms. But its beyond  everyone else except America to produce economically.

So I wonder what Russia's geopolitical views are on this.
I wonder what would happen if America tried to invade Cuba, which is still important for any strategic defence of Russia. Remember America planned to frame Cuba for shooting down an airliner, with a false flag operation.

This PAK TA could prevent something like an invasion of Cuba or Venezuela, and mean Russia could wield immense power in guaranteeing the indepedence of nations around the World.
Currently, it can only really do that with nukes.

It would also mean that Syria could have crushed ISIS, without Russia even needing to send a single ship.

EDIT:
PS the Tu160 was initially planned to have something like 120 units. That was a long time ago when a large supersonic plane must have been a big challenge. So that would suggest 80 today would be easier. Also, a mobile armed forces means less equipment might be needed. You can ferry stock around without stockpiling it in unused areas. You can also charge any nations that require the option of it to defend their borders.

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150319/1019742286.html

A fleet of 80 such aircraft will be built by 2024 and will be capable of transferring 400 Armata heavy missile tanks or 900 light armored vehicles to the American continent or Australia in 7-8 hours.
Indian Air Force (IAF) Sukhoi Su-30 fighter aircraft flies past during a parade at an airbase in Tezpur, India, Friday, Nov. 21 2014
© AP PHOTO/ ANUPAM NATH
Russian Arms Sales Top $15.5 Billion for 2014 Despite Sanctions' Impact
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russia plans to build a fleet of supersonic military transport aircraft with an unprecedented payload of 220 tons capable of deploying a full-fledged armored army to anywhere in the world in seven hours, Expert Online reported Thursday.
A fleet of 80 such aircraft, dubbed PAK TA, will be built by 2024 and will be capable of transferring 400 Armata heavy missile tanks or 900 light armored vehicles with ammunition to the American continent or Australia in 7-8 hours, according to the media outlet, which cited a military source who attended a closed meeting of the Military-Industrial Commission in Moscow.

Tupolev TU-95
© FLICKR/ GREG BISHOP
Russian Strategic Bombers Conduct Drills in Arctic Circle
"For your understanding, one flight of the [PAK TA aircraft] fleet will be enough to deploy, say, to Cuba an operational and tactical army unit comparable to the total amount of US and NATO forces in Iraq," Expert Online quoted the source as saying.
One PAK TA aircraft can transport five heavy missile tanks, anti-aircraft missile complexes, multiple launch missile systems, and anti-tank missile fighting vehicles, without refueling a distance of 4,350 miles, the source elaborated.

Expert Online added that the ambitious PAK TA project will include a family of medium to super-heavy aircraft.

The heaviest of the aircraft will significantly exceed the carrying threshold of the existing Antonov An-124 Ruslan, an aircraft with up to 165 tons payload.

Firebird wrote:

George1 wrote:it is just an artist concept, and maybe remain as that forever

Correct. The concept pics are done by an artist. Albeit one of them was at Volga-Dnieper freight.

But a supersonic cargo jet wouldn't be hard. Just look at what was being produced with the Tu144 and Tu160.

There are also huge hypersonic plane plans from the 80s, 70s and even 50s and 60s.

Naturally the 2000kph variant would come first. Its not a big leap for Russia in tech terms. But its beyond  everyone else except America to produce economically.

So I wonder what Russia's geopolitical views are on this.
I wonder what would happen if America tried to invade Cuba, which is still important for any strategic defence of Russia. Remember America planned to frame Cuba for shooting down an airliner, with a false flag operation.

This PAK TA could prevent something like an invasion of Cuba or Venezuela, and mean Russia could wield immense power in guaranteeing the indepedence of nations around the World.
Currently, it can only really do that with nukes.

A much easier idea would be to give the Cuban's and Venezuelan's license and production rights to Pantsir-S1 and Antey-2500 and the missiles, and develop a cheap mass produced trailers that can be towed with the Antey-2500 units and launch Antey missiles under a Antey-2500 command post, but without all the expensive components. So Cuba and Venezuela could have 5 batteries of Antey-2500 and have hundreds of trailers that can be towed or carried by a semi-truck. You could have a special trailer for Pantsir missiles that could towed on a semi-truck trailer with several dozen Pantsir missiles, and a 57 mm gun system to assist in SHORAD.

Sounds like a priority project for Russia

The retirement of the An-22 Cock class is imminent. Russia has nothing to replace it in the 70-90 ton payload class. It can make do for now with its An-124 fleet but ultimately a replacement must be found.
The main alternative is a revival of the Il-106 project; however this is a 90s project that has been forgotten and would have to be redrawn, and subsequently developed essentially from scratch. Is it worthwhile?

The retirement of the An-124 fleet I'm guessing will come sometime in the 2020s. Perhaps they can keep on trucking a 'lil longer, till the early 2030s, but again, it's clear that the 80s built An-124 fleet won't last for too much longer and a replacement must be found for the +100 ton class
The plan was to start up production of An-124s with the Ukraine, but with the Ukraine crisis this is now in jeapordy. Theoretically, it could still be possible to secure enough of the freefalling Antonov enterprise, to be able to go at it alone; however this depends on many variables, and the Ukrainian regime could still create problems with Russia by means of patents, legal rights and so on.
The An-124 is an effective, but old design that can possibly be replaced with something more efficient.

The An-225 was a one-off for the Soviet space program, and officially speaking there haven't been any military requirements for a transport plane with a capacity of this size.
However, the heavy use and contracting of this plane by militaries world-wide show that there is definately a niche for such aircraft. Moreover, armour and vehicle weight has been steadily increasing for the last several decades. With the introduction of the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang families, each on average heavier than the MBT, BMP and BTR models respectively that preceeded them, it is worth re-examining a possible role for super-heavy transport aircraft in the Russian Air Force.

A unified transport aircraft family, that will be able to replace the An-22, An-124 and An-225 all at once, is very much a desirable option, and though the cost of development may be large, ultimately it would prove cheaper than having to develop a seperate Il-106 project, restart An-124 production and then figure out a seperate solution later on for the super-heavy class, if it proves neccessary.

At the moment I think all talk of supersonic, or hypersonic transport aircraft is fantasy, but it should certainly not be ruled out for the future, when propulsion technologies have reached a higher level of maturity.
For now, the development of a subsonic transport aircraft family with the possibility for redesign for greater speeds in the coming decades, would seem a most prudent course.

A whole new project would also open the door for multination cooperation on its development; at least on the level of funding and research.
In no particular order, I can easily imagine the interest of China, India, Brazil, Argentina & Indonesia in such a project.

max steel wrote: WELL WHAT TO SAY !  


Future Russian army could deploy anywhere in the world – in 7 hours        


7,000-km-range supersonic plane delivering 400 next-gen tanks - details of secret Russian military 'PAK TA' program leaked   . A beautiful design somewhat looking like B-2 yankee bomber .  



http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/3b/1b/10/00/uggjffkou8q.si.jpg



http://rt.com/news/242097-pak-ta-russian-army/

Sensationalism aside, the ducted fans on the wings/hull of that aircraft is an absolutely insane design.  It's actually using the engine's thrust to force air over the control surfaces to produced a high amount of vectored thrust without adding additional moving parts. The artists/engineers behind this concept aircraft have some amazing talent. I really hope civilian/military transports are this beautiful in the near future.

flamming_python wrote:Sounds like a priority project for Russia

The retirement of the An-22 Cock class is imminent. Russia has nothing to replace it in the 70-90 ton payload class. It can make do for now with its An-124 fleet but ultimately a replacement must be found.
The main alternative is a revival of the Il-106 project; however this is a 90s project that has been forgotten and would have to be redrawn, and subsequently developed essentially from scratch. Is it worthwhile?

The retirement of the An-124 fleet I'm guessing will come sometime in the 2020s. Perhaps they can keep on trucking a 'lil longer, till the early 2030s, but again, it's clear that the 80s built An-124 fleet won't last for too much longer and a replacement must be found for the +100 ton class
The plan was to start up production of An-124s with the Ukraine, but with the Ukraine crisis this is now in jeapordy. Theoretically, it could still be possible to secure enough of the freefalling Antonov enterprise, to be able to go at it alone; however this depends on many variables, and the Ukrainian regime could still create problems with Russia by means of patents, legal rights and so on.
The An-124 is an effective, but old design that can possibly be replaced with something more efficient.

The An-225 was a one-off for the Soviet space program, and officially speaking there haven't been any military requirements for a transport plane with a capacity of this size.
However, the heavy use and contracting of this plane by militaries world-wide show that there is definately a niche for such aircraft. Moreover, armour and vehicle weight has been steadily increasing for the last several decades. With the introduction of the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang families, each on average heavier than the MBT, BMP and BTR models respectively that preceeded them, it is worth re-examining a possible role for super-heavy transport aircraft in the Russian Air Force.

A unified transport aircraft family, that will be able to replace the An-22, An-124 and An-225 all at once, is very much a desirable option, and though the cost of development may be large, ultimately it would prove cheaper than having to develop a seperate Il-106 project, restart An-124 production and then figure out a seperate solution later on for the super-heavy class, if it proves neccessary.

At the moment I think all talk of supersonic, or hypersonic transport aircraft is fantasy, but it should certainly not be ruled out for the future, when propulsion technologies have reached a higher level of maturity.
For now, the development of a subsonic transport aircraft family with the possibility for redesign for greater speeds in the coming decades, would seem a most prudent course.

A whole new project would also open the door for multination cooperation on its development; at least on the level of funding and research.
In no particular order, I can easily imagine the interest of China, India, Brazil, Argentina & Indonesia in such a project.

Agreed 100%, +1.  Its the age of the An-22/124 fleet and the absurdity of planning any replacements/upgrades around the Ukr goose-steppers that provide the strategic drivers for such a program.  Its a real shame as in many ways Antonov was one of the great jewels in the crown of Soviet aerospace industry that ended up on the wrong side of the border and has suffered accordingly (same for Yuznoye/Yuzmash).

More generally, the recent geo-political hostility displayed by the US and the gutless acquiescence by the Euro-vassal states has reaffirmed how vital it is for Russia to have indigenous capabilities for all strategic needs incl defense, aviation, shipbuilding, power systems & propulsion, rocketry & space systems, electronics & sensors, oil & gas exploration/production  etc etc.  Any reliance on foreign suppliers which can be subject to aggressive sanctions needs to be overcome by large scale public investments in the relevant industries. Turbine powerplants and helicopter engines to replace Ukr-sourced units are obvious (and topical) instances, but there are many more, and they all need to go.

kvs wrote:I hope this design gets implemented.  Time to move on in terms of aircraft design.   A lifting body concept is superior to
anything currently available.  

Check out the butthurt response by western "journalists":

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-next-generation-transport-plane-2015-3

The only thing absurd are the two retarded clowns who wrote this troll piece and the clowns that hired them.

Haha i can't stop laughing.

According to Kremlin propaganda outfit RT citing...

The biggest propagandists the anglosucksons are calling others to be propaganda spreader...seriously the pot calling the kettle black.

The Tu-160 first flew in 1981. 35 were built, of 100 planned.
Its empty weight is 110 ton, and max takeoff weight is 275ton.

Obviously the Pak Ta would be broader, and larger. But if we see what was designed 40 yrs ago, I don't think a 2000kph Pak Ta would be that difficult for Russia to do today.
Perhaps the solution is to have blended air intakes at the front, with the cargo area behind that.

The artist's pic shows that sort of idea.

On a related issue, re the Tu160, I've noticed that it never seems to be photographed near foreign borders. Unlike the Tu95. Perhaps the 160 does have special radar dodging features..?

Actually a few aircraft have air piped from the engines to the flaps... the technical term is "blown flaps"... it is usually taken from the cool section at the front of the engine and is applied to aircraft that need to operate from short runways...

Actually if we look carefully perhaps we are seeing what PAK DA might look like too... imagine splitting the design into two categories... bomber and transport, where the transport comes in three scaled sizes of say 80 tons, 130 tons, and 200 tons, though it would be useful for the 200 ton payload capacity model to be able to carry large external loads like fuel tanks for super heavy space launch systems.

With the Bomber branch you could have the strategic bomber with a 9 to 15 ton payload and the rest of the payload fuel for extended flight range while a theater bomber with a heavy payload of perhaps 50-60 tons and reduced fuel for operations over Europe and Asia.

You could even add maritime patrol aircraft, inflight refuelling aircraft, AWACS and JSTARs like aircraft and of course civilian passenger aircraft.

I rather suspect even supersonic flight would be out of the question initially... just because the engine requirements, though the blown flaps concept is interesting to increase takeoff power/performance...

I find this very exciting as there were clear gaps in the transport inventory with the An-22 soon to leave service and the An-124 an excellent aircraft but it wont last forever...

damn, imagine the export demand for these things- jack up the price to even c-17 levels and it will still sell like hotcakes

Count on GarryB to guess at a connection between the PAK-DA and PAK-TA. +1 for that

flamming_python wrote:Sounds like a priority project for Russia

The retirement of the An-22 Cock class is imminent. Russia has nothing to replace it in the 70-90 ton payload class. It can make do for now with its An-124 fleet but ultimately a replacement must be found.
The main alternative is a revival of the Il-106 project; however this is a 90s project that has been forgotten and would have to be redrawn, and subsequently developed essentially from scratch. Is it worthwhile?

The retirement of the An-124 fleet I'm guessing will come sometime in the 2020s. Perhaps they can keep on trucking a 'lil longer, till the early 2030s, but again, it's clear that the 80s built An-124 fleet won't last for too much longer and a replacement must be found for the +100 ton class
The plan was to start up production of An-124s with the Ukraine, but with the Ukraine crisis this is now in jeapordy. Theoretically, it could still be possible to secure enough of the freefalling Antonov enterprise, to be able to go at it alone; however this depends on many variables, and the Ukrainian regime could still create problems with Russia by means of patents, legal rights and so on.
The An-124 is an effective, but old design that can possibly be replaced with something more efficient.

The An-225 was a one-off for the Soviet space program, and officially speaking there haven't been any military requirements for a transport plane with a capacity of this size.
However, the heavy use and contracting of this plane by militaries world-wide show that there is definately a niche for such aircraft. Moreover, armour and vehicle weight has been steadily increasing for the last several decades. With the introduction of the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang families, each on average heavier than the MBT, BMP and BTR models respectively that preceeded them, it is worth re-examining a possible role for super-heavy transport aircraft in the Russian Air Force.

A unified transport aircraft family, that will be able to replace the An-22, An-124 and An-225 all at once, is very much a desirable option, and though the cost of development may be large, ultimately it would prove cheaper than having to develop a seperate Il-106 project, restart An-124 production and then figure out a seperate solution later on for the super-heavy class, if it proves neccessary.

At the moment I think all talk of supersonic, or hypersonic transport aircraft is fantasy, but it should certainly not be ruled out for the future, when propulsion technologies have reached a higher level of maturity.
For now, the development of a subsonic transport aircraft family with the possibility for redesign for greater speeds in the coming decades, would seem a most prudent course.

A whole new project would also open the door for multination cooperation on its development; at least on the level of funding and research.
In no particular order, I can easily imagine the interest of China, India, Brazil, Argentina & Indonesia in such a project.

Admit it, you just wrote that post for a chance to say An-22 Cock.

That BI article is BS. No one knows of PAK FA's stealth characteristics other than armchair engineers jpeg impressions. Add to that the two seater isnt even flying yet, and an upgraded engine is no different than US methods and wouldnt even be considered a setback. Sounds like people with littleman syndrom.

GarryB wrote:Actually if we look carefully perhaps we are seeing what PAK DA might look like too... imagine splitting the design into two categories... bomber and transport, where the transport comes in three scaled sizes of say 80 tons, 130 tons, and 200 tons, though it would be useful for the 200 ton payload capacity model to be able to carry large external loads like fuel tanks for super heavy space launch systems.

With the Bomber branch you could have the strategic bomber with a 9 to 15 ton payload and the rest of the payload fuel for extended flight range while a theater bomber with a heavy payload of perhaps 50-60 tons and reduced fuel for operations over Europe and Asia.

You could even add maritime patrol aircraft, inflight refuelling aircraft, AWACS and JSTARs like aircraft and of course civilian passenger aircraft.

I rather suspect even supersonic flight would be out of the question initially... just because the engine requirements, though the blown flaps concept is interesting to increase takeoff power/performance...

I find this very exciting as there were clear gaps in the transport inventory with the An-22 soon to leave service and the An-124 an excellent aircraft but it wont last forever...

Its an intriguing set of designs.
The key q is what will be built. How will it work. And how will it be used.

I suppose its a bit like 1 and a bit Tu-160s joined together in weight terms.

The vid talks about electric fans and gas turbines. It seems there's a battery on board too.
I'd be surprised if that is the next plan, and not the next plan but one. But who knows.

We've seen supersonic and biggish size before - Tu 160. We've seen stealth and reasonable size - B2 etc. But we've never seen very big, stealthy AND very fast.

I know Russia spoke with Boeing about a supersonic 747 sized jet in the early 1990s. But adding stealth and perhaps range is a whole new issue.

I wonder how stealth works with those fans. And I wonder how the electric fans aspect works.
Also, I wonder if it will be one huge engine. Again, this seems perculiar, but who knows.

I'm a little puzzled at the idea the Pak Da is sub sonic now, but the cargo plane... we believe is actually supersonic. Normally, the 2 are the opposite way round.

Finally, I wonder how much drag the shape would have. And how much stealth. Unlike the B2, it has a tail. And its body, whilst blended is a fair bit wider, and slightly taller.

Cargo planes have traditionally been considered a bit "boring" amongst mil planes. So, if this is the 21st Century Ru cargo plane, I wonder what other ideas they have up their sleeves...

Clearly, Russian military doctrine is now focussing on ultra rapid reaction. As seen by the waves of snap exercises.

Russia does have a shortage of airlift equipment AND the slower naval transport.
With these transport improvements, I wonder how this willaffect Russia's land forces. Will it mean larger forces focussed on global issues. (Its been unable to guarantee some state's security in the past, due to logistics issues).

Perhaps it could mean higher quality equipment, but being flexible and able to shuttle it from the Kurils, to the Arctic and even off to Africa at lightening speed.

It could mean the return of genuine allies in Africa and all round the World. Perhaps it will be all part of the new Customs Union. After all, a trade system only works with guarantees on trade stability.

Regardless of other things, think should be pretty certain that the concept we saw in the video (a pretty darn cool one, yes) is subsonic, not only because of the aerodynamic shape but also those electric fans (one single engine turning two fans with their straight intakes AND the craft to supersonic speed? no way). A supersonic transport imo could indeed look something like a larger Tu-160 with or without VG wings, longer and more slender comparative to this CGI, and supersonic optimized intakes for the super-cruise optimized engines, but obviously payload would be reduced for the same size.

Perhaps the PAK-TA will or will not be built in this form, but the question for the experts would be (and i'm genuinely interested) is this configuration offering better payload, range and cost effectiveness compared to a more orthodox one (like An-124 or An-225)? These are the main parameters for a successful transport isn't it?

Oh and regarding PAK-DA (allegedly subsonic, remember) and it's possible relation to this concept, i remember now i saw one of Paralay's renderings showing an aircraft fairly similar to a B-2 in configuration, but with wing root embedded intakes just like this CGI has for the electric fans!

PS: And also, let's not forget the BWB concept we saw in TsAGIs wind tunnel.