S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

Excellent news, air defense is reequipping quite fast now. If I count correctly, to the end of this year Russian military will have 40 Pantsirs. Any info if Tor-M2KM will also go in VKO units?

medo wrote:Excellent news, air defense is reequipping quite fast now. If I count correctly, to the end of this year Russian military will have 40 Pantsirs. Any info if Tor-M2KM will also go in VKO units?

1. I dont know about Tor-M2 and most probably few people does at this moment. If I where to be asked about it, I would form a mixed party of Tor and Pancir units to exploit their advantages and nullify their disadvantages. Together they would form an impregnable wall for any PGM and other targets. 
2. I think by the end of 2013 we will see 34 Pancir-S1 units in Russian army.
3. Situation is now stabilized concerning deliveries of PVO equipment (and will greatly increase) but that happend only once Russian Defense Ministry signed long term contract with Almaz Antej in 2011 I think. 
4. Still I would like to know, up to what point S-300V4 contract come. There seems to be very little information about it and jet its a big contract with very powerful system in question. 

Obviously there was some high level meatings about PVO so today we have ton of information about it.

Test C-500 is scheduled for 2014-2015

1. 2014 and 2015 testing of full assembled S-500
2. 2014 testing of S-350 Vityaz 
3. From 2016 all (new, modernized and old) production facilities and production capacity will be 100% busy

Stars on the "armor"
http://www.redstar.ru/index.php/2011-07-25-15-55-32/item/13007-zvjozdy-na-pantsire

Wait for it, apparently, is long.

"As far as promising developments for which troops ASD special hope, in the first place is important to us timely creation and staging adopted the S-500 and" Hero ". C-500 is a new generation of anti-aircraft missile systems and is a universal set of long-range and high-altitude interception with increased potential missile defenses capable of intercepting ballistic missile warheads, flying at a speed of 7 km / s. Prospective AAMS will be able to amaze not only ballistic, but hypersonic and aerodynamic targets (aircraft, helicopters, other aircraft objects). Medium-range air defense missile systems "Vityaz" is to replace the legendary "trehsotki." With new construction principles AAMS significantly increased its combat potential in both spatial capabilities and performance goals and Physical destroyed. Starting serial deliveries of the system is expected in the near future "- said the former" Red Star "Deputy Commander of the Aerospace Defence Air Defence Major General Kirill Makarov.

More details about the upcoming deliveries of the new system and tells the CEO of JSC "Concern PVO" Almaz-Antey "Vladislav Menshikov:" Development of the newest anti-aircraft missile system S-500 is in accordance with the schedule. According to the plans, according to the contracts, which is, in 2015 we intend to complete the development of the C-500 and in 2017 to begin serial production to delivery to the troops, "- said the CEO.

- By car, the C-300 PM-2 this year, a complex improvements that carried "head center service and repair Concern PVO" Almaz - Antey "" Granite ", - said the acting deputy regiment commander for armaments Colonel Igor Pitskhelauri. - After upgrading the system S-300PM to the level of S-300PM-2 opportunity to hit ballistic targets more likely. In particular, the reflection of the combined impacts of aerodynamic efficiency and ballistic targets S-300PM-2 by an average of 15-20 per cent higher than that of C-300PM. Revised concerned and new types of missiles that are installed on this machine. Under them were finalized launchers and software. Improved part specifications: increased detection range, resolution. According to results of the training system in 2013 S-300 PM-2 I was pleased.

Today, anti-aircraft missile and gun complexes "Armour-S" is the flagship national air defense system near the action. They are designed to protect civilian and military installations, anti-aircraft missile systems cover a large range of the C-300 and C-400. Implemented in these complex missile and gun armament allows the firing of air targets throughout the depth of the affected area, starting with the long high-altitude targets and ending suddenly appearing small objects flying at extremely low altitudes. The new complex is capable of detecting up to 10 simultaneous goals. Armed with ZRPK "Armour-S" are 30-millimeter cannon and rocket launchers caliber 76 mm and 90 mm. ZRPK enough ammunition to 1.4 thousand cannon shots and 12 missiles. This complex is no country in the world.

Viktor wrote:5 sets of S-500 to be delivered to Russian Aerospace forces by 2020 (who knows what sets means ??  )

Russian arm with five S-500 2020

and full interview with army commander VKO Maj. Gen. Alexander Golovko

Force Commander EKR: special hopes on the S-500 system

Yesterday army commander VKO Maj.Gen. Alexander Golovko said that Russian PVO troops will recieve 5 sets of S-500 by 2020.

Today VKO Maj.Gen Kirill Makarov (after consultations with Putin) corrected that phase with the number what it used to be = 10  

Up to ten C-500 entered service in Russia up to 2020

Putin also corrected Almaz-Antej reprezentative who said few months ago that during 2014, Russian ASD troops will receive 2 or 3 S-400 systems 

The Russian army c 2014 will arm shelves 2-3 C-400 a year

and here is what Putin stated yesterday 

Russia to Deploy 3 New S-400 Air Defense Regiments in 2014    

Got to love him !!!

GarryB wrote:The S-500 will be a strategic SAM used to defend major structures like capitals and major cities and major ports and also main airfields from ballistic missile attack. It might be able to hit anything above the ground but an An-124 could also carry a 1 ton payload... you just wouldn't use it that way unless you absolutely had to.

The S-500 will be able to eat everything from ground level to LEO, but is likely not going to care much at all about anything air-breating. The S-400 is more than enough for air-breathers, leaving the S-500s to exist as ABM/ASAT complexes.

Viktor , I give up cant keep arguing for the sake of it and just to prove ones point

SOC wrote:The S-500 will be able to eat everything from ground level to LEO, but is likely not going to care much at all about anything air-breating.  The S-400 is more than enough for air-breathers, leaving the S-500s to exist as ABM/ASAT complexes.

What is more interesting is for every new generation of triple digit SAM , they have build up from ground multiple SAM system to deal with different types of target and have not focused on specific targets like for eg US THAAD is primarily focussed on BMD while 40N6 is far more versatile.

Perhaps the difference in dealing with Hypersonic Targets for S-400 48N6E3 and 40N6 will be difference for target speed while 48N6E3 is advertised for a 4.8 km/sec target kill corresponding to ~ 3000 range BM or any target at that speed while 40N6 is capable of dealing with target speed of 5.1 km/sec probably at longer ranges and higher altitude.

With S-500 they would stretch that to 7 km/sec .... they might need series of missile to do that task because an interception in Space is easier compared to an atmospheric ones

The S-500 will be able to eat everything from ground level to LEO, but is likely not going to care much at all about anything air-breating. The S-400 is more than enough for air-breathers, leaving the S-500s to exist as ABM/ASAT complexes.

I totally agree... if you could just have one system then you would have S-500, but just like if you could only have one transport aircraft that you only had the AN-124 then it could do all the jobs but for some jobs it would be terribly inefficient.

The solution is S-500 for top tier defence of hypersonic and ICBM/SLBM threats, with S-400 as main long range area SAM, with Vityaz as a cheaper numbers SAM that can engage a wide variety of targets including less expensive ones that still need to be taken care of.

At sea it will be the same with the Vityaz being the most numerous medium to long range missile carried simply because it offers numbers and sufficient range.

BTW I would suspect the new high technology the Vityaz is being developed and made with applies to all the new model Russian SAMs too.

because an interception in Space is easier compared to an atmospheric ones

What makes you say that?

Control surfaces allow manouver capability in the atmosphere... for space interception you need lots of side thruster rockets and potentially lots of fuel... more importantly no matter what your fuel state you need your side thrusters to be at exactly the payloads centre of mass otherwise instead of shifting the trajectory of the payload it will just make the payload spin... uselessly.

The problem in atmospheric interception is materials and the ability to withstand high G without crumbling ofcourse the energy needs to accomplish is far higher due to atmospheric resistance and G load.

All things being equal its far easier to intercept in space then in the atmosphere

After annunciation of the new PVO academy, new PVO training ground right next to Ashuluk (Astrakhan region) and based on its concept (but bigger)

Ministry of Defence signed a contract for construction of a landfill near Astrakhan

S-300V4 will come along on 2015 and so will BUK-M3 , i posted the interview here some time back.

Viktor wrote:After annunciation of the new PVO academy, new PVO training ground right next to Ashuluk (Astrakhan region) and based on its concept (but bigger)

Ministry of Defence signed a contract for construction of a landfill near Astrakhan

not only 1 but according to the article ,they plan on 4 test polygons in each military sector.
very good. new weapons will need some training.
why arent kazahstans used anymore, if they are in csto?

You don't need to pay a rent if it is in your own territory.

SOC wrote:

GarryB wrote:The S-500 will be a strategic SAM used to defend major structures like capitals and major cities and major ports and also main airfields from ballistic missile attack. It might be able to hit anything above the ground but an An-124 could also carry a 1 ton payload... you just wouldn't use it that way unless you absolutely had to.

The S-500 will be able to eat everything from ground level to LEO, but is likely not going to care much at all about anything air-breating.  The S-400 is more than enough for air-breathers, leaving the S-500s to exist as ABM/ASAT complexes.

Oh? Actually, I believe that there is a reason, why Russia started developing entirely new generation of AD (S-500), even though S-400 (which already is state-of-the-art), was barely in production at the time. And that reason is the advent of hypersonic propulsion systems (such as scramjet). The missiles, or re-entry warheads, equipped with those engines, could not only make the work for ABMDs and their crews significantly harder, but, potentially, even make the very concept of kinetic interception pretty much obsolete  

Rpg type 7v wrote:

Viktor wrote:After annunciation of the new PVO academy, new PVO training ground right next to Ashuluk (Astrakhan region) and based on its concept (but bigger)

Ministry of Defence signed a contract for construction of a landfill near Astrakhan

not only 1 but according to the article ,they plan on 4 test polygons in each military sector.
very good. new weapons will need some training.
why arent kazahstans used anymore, if they are in csto?

Yes you are right, they plan to build 4 new testing ground for PVO. Incredible. I think they are using ground in Kazahstan mostly for testing new missiles but once done exercises with 

SAM systems are done only in Russia. 

Austin wrote:S-300V4 will come along on 2015 and so will BUK-M3 , i posted the interview here some time back.

That we know but what we dont know is how many and when. Putin spoke of 9 S-300V brigades by 2020.

At the moment Russia has 4 or 5 S-300V brigades that are being upgraded to S-300V4 standard and we know from the pictures on previous pages than new S-300V4 are being made.

We also know about this. 

Defense Ministry, Almaz-Antey sign contract for delivery of S-300V4 missile systems (Part 2).

From my understanding that would mean that 1 new fully equiped S-300V4 brigade will be made by 2016. That leaves 4-5 year to make another 3-4 S-300V4 brigades but also from 2015

Almaz-Antej will have several new production factories and several old ones fully modernized which will increase production rapidly. 

sepheronx wrote:Holy hell, the influx of retards on mp.net regarding the S-400's around moscow was outstanding.

I saw. Funny thing is that they are not even aware of the basic. I bet mindstorm would add that If they where fully aware of the scope of the damn thing they would commit mass suicide momentarily   

Rpg type 7v wrote:why arent kazahstans used anymore, if they are in csto?

Emba, where tactical SAM systems were tested like the original Buk and S-300V, has been closed for a long time and that activity moved to Kapustin Yar.

The other main range in Kazakhstan is Sary Shagan, which Russia does still use for ABM test firings. I wouldn't be surprised if the S-500 was tested there rather than Kapustin Yar. The original S-300P was the last strategic SAM system to be tested at Sary Shagan, as again all that activity moved to Kapustin Yar as well.

Austin wrote:S-300V4 will come along on 2015 and so will BUK-M3, i posted the interview here some time back.

Would it be possible to link to that interview Austin, i must have missed it unfortunately. Thank you.

http://dimmi-tomsk.livejournal.com/232277.html

S-400 + Pantsir in the snow.

24min S-400 video (TR1 can you please check if there is something we should know   )

they have tested it as early as in january 1999 against balistic targets at kapustin yar.

SOC wrote:

Rpg type 7v wrote:why arent kazahstans used anymore, if they are in csto?

Emba, where tactical SAM systems were tested like the original Buk and S-300V, has been closed for a long time and that activity moved to Kapustin Yar.

The other main range in Kazakhstan is Sary Shagan, which Russia does still use for ABM test firings.  I wouldn't be surprised if the S-500 was tested there rather than Kapustin Yar.  The original S-300P was the last strategic SAM system to be tested at Sary Shagan, as again all that activity moved to Kapustin Yar as well.

I was thinking more about Ashuluk which is part in russia/ part in kazahstan and 150km across.
they use it most of time.
but yes sary shagan too for its extreme ranges.i think it was largest by area.

Interesting new moment. Expert.ru website in their article claims that this year Russia will receive 6 S-400 batteries. Until few months ago we did not know anything 

about the planned S-400 deliveries in 2013. We knew that they where going to happen but how much - nothing official. I suspected that it would be at least on the same level as 

in the year before and few months ago we found out that 2 S-400 regiments will be delivered by the end of 2013. Now that is excellent and great pace of deliveries in comparison with 

earlier times but at the same time we all assumed that per regiment we will see 2 S-400 batteries which is a minimum number of batteries needed to form a regiment. Now this is the first 

time I hear that by 2013 Almaz-Antej will deliver 6 S-400 batteries and as we know from earlier announcements that 2 S-400 regiments will be delivered by 2013 I have no other option 

(in case this is true) but to conclude that for the first time S-400 regiment delivered to Russian Army will constitute of 3 S-400 batteries. 

In 2013, the armament of various parts of the Russian army battalions received six anti-aircraft missile system S-400 "Triumph".


Almost Soviet pace


Thing is that up until now all announcements regarding S-400 deliveries where made in reference to regiments not batteries and we knew from all earlier deliveres that Russian S-400 

regiments are made of 2 S-400 betteries. Now things might change. In case this proves to be truth, would mean that during 2014 when 3 S-400 regiments are scheduled to be delivered 

we would see actually 9 S-400 batteries delivered instead of 6.

That would also mean 66% increase in planned S-400 battery deliveries (2014/2011) on top of 50% increase of regimental deliveries (2014/2013)    and we 

havent even touched year 2015 when 18 new and modernized Almaz-Antej factories will start popping up SAMs   

To Viktor:

"we knew from all earlier deliveres that Russian S-400
regiments are made of 2 S-400 betteries."

Is this really right? I thought a regiment is comprised of 4 batteries (2 battalions)  

etaepsilonk wrote:To Viktor:

"we knew from all earlier deliveres that Russian S-400
regiments are made of 2 S-400 betteries."

Is this really right? I thought a regiment is comprised of 4 batteries (2 battalions)  

Yup thats right. Regarding S-300 you have next situation:

In PVO you have 

battery -> regiment -> brigade

Up to 6 batteries make one regiment and 2 regiments form one brigade. (although I suspect that Russian regiment can be made of up to 8 batteries)



In V-PVO you have

regiment -> brigade 

(battery is non-existant in V-PVO and smallest unit (building block) is regiment)

Up to 4 batteries make one regiment and up too 3 regiments form one brigade. (although you can not buy one S-300V battery (two is the minimum))



Now dont mix battalions and batteries because in PVO battalions mark the smallest operational unit (battery) but in V-PVO, battalion is the word used to describe a regiment (up to 4 

batteries - which by the way does not exist as a autonomous operational unit)    

So I suggest we stick to battery -> regiment -> brigade as it is easiest to understand. 

Btw - journalist share their burden of responsibility for confusing people.