Like I said before, they will first finish designing Il-112 and sending it into production and then move on to development of Il-276 (ex 214)
No India required
George1 wrote:The MTA aircraft became the Il-276
As the newspaper Izvestia reported in an article by Aleksei Ramm and Nikolai Surkov, "Il-276 is waiting in the army." A new military transport aircraft will be able to do without concrete runways, "the Russian Armed Forces are planning to purchase medium-sized IL-276 military transport aircraft. The novelty will be able to transport several combat vehicles or up to hundreds of soldiers at a distance of five to six thousand kilometers. At the same time the IL-276 can do without runways - it easily sits down and takes off from the ordinary ground. The car is created on the basis of the unrealized joint Russian-Indian project of the multifunctional transport aircraft MTA (Multi-role Transport Aircraft).
According to experts, the military urgently needs IL-276 to replace the fleet of outdated transporters still built in Soviet times. In addition, the novelty can be of interest to foreign buyers, primarily from among the traditional partners of Russia.
As "Izvestia" was told in the main command of the Air and Space Forces, at present the military department is in talks with aircraft builders. In particular, the timing and the program for creating the IL-276 are being discussed. But it is already certain that the military need is no less than 55 cars.
In JSC "Ilyushin" Izvestia confirmed that negotiations with the military are under way. But they refused to comment further.
The intergovernmental agreement on the joint development and construction of the MTA was signed by Moscow and New Delhi in 2007. Three years later, the base agreement was concluded by the Russian United Aircraft Corporation and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. It was expected that the first flight the aircraft will perform in 2017. Subsequently, the terms were shifted several times. And in late 2015, the Indian side announced the withdrawal from the project.
But in September 2016 representatives of Ilyushin reported that the project of a medium military transport aircraft (SVTS) would be continued. And in June this year SVTS received the official name of IL-276 (earlier in the Russian media the project of MTA-SVTS was called Il-214).
IL-276 is a twin-engine jet with a take-off weight of just over 60 tons. Its payload is about 20 tons. The machine is capable of flying over 6,000 kilometers at a speed of more than 800 kilometers per hour. At the same time, "two hundred and seventy-sixth" is easy to do without runways. He is able to take off, land on the ground.
Independent military expert Anton Lavrov believes that the IL-276 will be very much in demand by the Russian military.
"In the future, it will replace all those transport vehicles that have not been manufactured since the times of the USSR-An-12, An-72, An-32," the expert explained. - This aircraft will be powered by the upgraded IL-76. They are well mastered by industry. This will greatly accelerate the process of debugging the aircraft and making it into service.
Anton Lavrov added that the average transport aircraft is very necessary for transportation to such distances, where it is not expedient to drive a large IL-76, for example, inside military districts or regions.
"The IL-276 will have a run-up and fuel consumption will be much less," the expert said. - It is useful for the transfer of light technology and people. The transportation of supplies to remote garrisons is very in demand, especially in the Arctic. Also on its base will probably be created aircraft EW and radio intelligence. And if you want, you can make a flying laboratory and even a passenger plane to transport the command.
Andrei Frolov, editor-in-chief of the magazine Export of Arms, noted in his conversation with Izvestia that there is a demand for medium-sized military transport planes on the world market.
- Russian development may well interest traditional buyers of our military products. But much will depend on the timing, - the expert explained. - The IL-276 will have strong competitors. Medium transport vehicles with turbojet engines are already offered for export by Brazilian and Chinese manufacturers.
Currently, there are 40 medium military transport An-72 and more than one hundred AN-12 in the fleet of the Russian military department.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2904531.html
Interesting article.
I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:
An-72/74/71
An-24/26/30/32
Very logical. And very right.
GarryB wrote:Interesting article.
I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:
An-72/74/71
An-24/26/30/32
Very logical. And very right.
Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.
The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.
To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.
To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds
The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.
Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.
It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.
The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.
eehnie wrote:GarryB wrote:Interesting article.
I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:
An-72/74/71
An-24/26/30/32
Very logical. And very right.
Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.
The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.
To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.
To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds
The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.
Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.
It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.
The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.
The last sentence is not a safe bet.
There is a work on optimization of the packing of the loads to be done. Now the loads are optimized for the available fleet, but when the number of small transport aircrafts gets reduced by its use, the results of the optimization process will demand the procurement of the optimal aircrafts and helicopters. Bigger aircrafts and helicopters are chearper in costs per Kg and Km. The new Il-276 is well placed in the mix of aircrafts and helicopters to cover the future demand for military air transport.
About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy), and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...
AMCXXL wrote:eehnie wrote:GarryB wrote:Interesting article.
I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:
An-72/74/71
An-24/26/30/32
Very logical. And very right.
Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.
The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.
To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.
To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds
The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.
Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.
It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.
The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.
The last sentence is not a safe bet.
There is a work on optimization of the packing of the loads to be done. Now the loads are optimized for the available fleet, but when the number of small transport aircrafts gets reduced by its use, the results of the optimization process will demand the procurement of the optimal aircrafts and helicopters. Bigger aircrafts and helicopters are chearper in costs per Kg and Km. The new Il-276 is well placed in the mix of aircrafts and helicopters to cover the future demand for military air transport.
It is much easier than all that
Russian Air Forces currently operates the following cargo airplanes:
STRATEGIC TRANSPORT:
An-124 , half of them (10) are modernized , the other half to be modernized until 2025. After 2030 to be replazed by PAK-TA
Il-76MD , half to be modernized to Il-76MD-M and other half replaced by Il-476 until 2025.Later replace the other half
An-22 will be retired after 2020. The only reason for have actuve several is that only the 10 modernized An-124 are active
REGIONAL TRANSPORT:
Each Military District , and each Fleet has one regiment of cargo airplanes for the own use , that has:
An-12 (20 ton. payload / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-276 (20 ton. payload /turbofan) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-178)
An-26 (5,5 ton. payplad / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-112 (6 ton. payload / turboprop) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-140)
About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy), and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...
For the moment , replacement dont seems necesary and also , this plane could be modernized for extend the useful life
the replacement should be an airplane of the 10 ton. payload segment
Russian Airforce does not operates An-24/32 , An-71/74
The few An-30 are not transport airplanes, are a version for recognition
GarryB wrote:Smaller aircraft have a role to play with both lighter load jobs and operations from smaller airfields to remote deployed forces.
About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy), and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...
???
It is in Russias interests to get all Ukrainian designs out of Russia service as quickly as possible.
You don't mention the An-2... the ryaschok or whatever it is called seems to have failed in some way, which is a bit of a shame.
eehnie wrote:AMCXXL wrote:eehnie wrote:GarryB wrote:Interesting article.
I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:
An-72/74/71
An-24/26/30/32
Very logical. And very right.
Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.
The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.
To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.
To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds
The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.
Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.
It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.
The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.
The last sentence is not a safe bet.
There is a work on optimization of the packing of the loads to be done. Now the loads are optimized for the available fleet, but when the number of small transport aircrafts gets reduced by its use, the results of the optimization process will demand the procurement of the optimal aircrafts and helicopters. Bigger aircrafts and helicopters are chearper in costs per Kg and Km. The new Il-276 is well placed in the mix of aircrafts and helicopters to cover the future demand for military air transport.
It is much easier than all that
Russian Air Forces currently operates the following cargo airplanes:
STRATEGIC TRANSPORT:
An-124 , half of them (10) are modernized , the other half to be modernized until 2025. After 2030 to be replazed by PAK-TA
Il-76MD , half to be modernized to Il-76MD-M and other half replaced by Il-476 until 2025.Later replace the other half
An-22 will be retired after 2020. The only reason for have actuve several is that only the 10 modernized An-124 are active
REGIONAL TRANSPORT:
Each Military District , and each Fleet has one regiment of cargo airplanes for the own use , that has:
An-12 (20 ton. payload / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-276 (20 ton. payload /turbofan) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-178)
An-26 (5,5 ton. payplad / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-112 (6 ton. payload / turboprop) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-140)
About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy), and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...
For the moment , replacement dont seems necesary and also , this plane could be modernized for extend the useful life
the replacement should be an airplane of the 10 ton. payload segment
Russian Airforce does not operates An-24/32 , An-71/74
The few An-30 are not transport airplanes, are a version for recognition
I assume you are talking about the An-72, not the An-70. About the An-22 I would say it by other way. Likely the use until the exhaustion of the An-22 is helping to keep a reserve of An-124 (that likely will be modernized too). But there is an important problem with this model of replacement.
Russia, will not avoid a dimensional analysis of the current and future warfare of the Russian Armed Forces, and will not avoid the analysis of the demand of military air transport, from every point to start to every point of destination. From the last the analysis about the about optimization of the packing of the loads is inmediate and necessary.
All this is key to define the dimensions of the future transport aircrafts and helicopters, to obtain the optimal dimensional configurations and the best possible ratios for the costs of transport per Kg and per Km, and even to find new needs in the refered to airfields,...
In the military air transport Russia will not aply a 1 by 1 replacement model. This would mean to consider valid the analysis done in the 1950s and in the 1960s, with some improvements of the 1970s and 1980s. This will not happen. Russia is in the moment of designing a new generation of air transport aircrafts and now is the right moment to do the complete analysis, and I have not doubt that has been done (likely finnished before the definition of the 2018-2025 State Armament Program). Note that the analysis and solutions of the 1950s and 1960s were strongly affected by the technical (theorical and practical) limitations at the time, that in many cases are not the same problem today.
I tend to think that the Il-276 and the Su-SJ have the right size to be in the basis of the Russian military air transport of the future. Under this size I tend to think that the helicopters are dominant in low costs.
AMCXXL wrote:eehnie wrote:I assume you are talking about the An-72, not the An-70. About the An-22 I would say it by other way. Likely the use until the exhaustion of the An-22 is helping to keep a reserve of An-124 (that likely will be modernized too). But there is an important problem with this model of replacement.
Russia, will not avoid a dimensional analysis of the current and future warfare of the Russian Armed Forces, and will not avoid the analysis of the demand of military air transport, from every point to start to every point of destination. From the last the analysis about the about optimization of the packing of the loads is inmediate and necessary.
All this is key to define the dimensions of the future transport aircrafts and helicopters, to obtain the optimal dimensional configurations and the best possible ratios for the costs of transport per Kg and per Km, and even to find new needs in the refered to airfields,...
In the military air transport Russia will not aply a 1 by 1 replacement model. This would mean to consider valid the analysis done in the 1950s and in the 1960s, with some improvements of the 1970s and 1980s. This will not happen. Russia is in the moment of designing a new generation of air transport aircrafts and now is the right moment to do the complete analysis, and I have not doubt that has been done (likely finnished before the definition of the 2018-2025 State Armament Program). Note that the analysis and solutions of the 1950s and 1960s were strongly affected by the technical (theorical and practical) limitations at the time, that in many cases are not the same problem today.
I tend to think that the Il-276 and the Su-SJ have the right size to be in the basis of the Russian military air transport of the future. Under this size I tend to think that the helicopters are dominant in low costs.
Yes , of course, I was talking about the An-72
About "Military Transport Aircrafts" , we are talking about airplanes for to move military units (soldiers/paratroopers , impedimenta, ammunitions, military vehicles , BMP, MBT, etc ...)
Airliners , even those that use VKS ,are excluded of that field
The first role of the Military Transport Aviation (BTA) is support and deploy the airborne forces (VDV) , and also support all the military deploys
For simply to move charges, usually a private companies as Volga-Dniepr is transport for example, breakdowned airplanes to the repair plants , or materials for the new opened bases in the artic
Military Transport Aviation is not FedEx , although of course, it must improve the performance of its aircrafts
Russia cannot have a dozen of different Military Transports , is not the USSR , with 4 models or 5 at much , is enough
The needs for move a battalion of the airborne troops are basically the same , and now , the new airplanes are more capable than the older models
The future models Pak-TA , Il-476/Il-478 , Il-276 and Il-112 are enough for the Russian needs , even if there is not a new design for the 10 ton payload segment
ABout the An-124 , there are 10 modernized in 2011-2015.
After the Ucranian problems , seems the modernization is delayed, in fact ,in 2016 and 2017 should have been handed over several more An-124 modernized and in 2020 have the projected 22 modernized
But now there are An-124´s in Ulyanovsk with the modernization works stopped or delayed
When Russia has about 15 An-124 modernized, the An-22 will be retired
- Size cathegory of the An-124.
- Size cathegory of the An-22.
- Size cathegory of the Il-76.
- Size cathegory of the Tu-204/214.
- Size cathegory of the An-10/12.
GarryB wrote:So the question is which will go ahead.... the twin engined Tu-214, or the Il-276... ...........
More concretely:
- Size cathegory of the An-124. MTO weight 350-585 tons. Bigger 4 engines -> around 160 tons payload.
- Size cathegory of the An-22. MTO weight 210-350 tons Bigger 2 engines -> around 80 tons payload.
- Size cathegory of the Il-76. MTO weight 125-210 tons. Smaller 6 engines -> around 60 tons payload.
- Size cathegory of the Tu-204/214. MTO weight 75-125 tons. Smailler 4 engines -> around 40 tons payload.
- Size cathegory of the An-10/12. MTO weight 45-75 tons. Smaller 2 engines -> around 20 tons payload.
The relation between payloads keeps the relation between the number of engines (which implicitly is a relation between the power).
The bigger design with 6 engines would lead to an aircraft with around 240 tons payload in the size cathegory of the An-225, that would be also doable, but has not a precedent with success. It means the cathegory is weaker than the rest.
The Ministry of Defense of Russia approved the tactical and technical requirements for a promising medium military transport aircraft IL-276. The development of the aircraft is carried out by PJSC "IL" - the head enterprise of the UAC Transport Aviation Division
Hole wrote:Payload of the Il-276 will be 20 tons.
What you want is a carpet bomber. No need for so many bombs in most scenarios. Pylons under the wings should be enough. Could also carry Kh-38 missiles or Grom glide bombs. The gunship should be a different version, also with a 57mm cannon. An ECM version with ARM´s would also be great.
LMFS wrote:That is exactly how US armed forces forgot fighting peer rivals and concentrated in killing goat herders... better not putting too much focus in this, counter insurgence in foreign lands should not be central to the mission of armed forces