Syrian Civil War: News #4

PapaDragon wrote:If that is all there is there then Turks are lucky. But I have a feeling that it might have brought some bigger "cousins"...

Does this class have vertical launchers for cruise missiles or do they use torpedo tubes for that? Me naval noob...

877/636 and 677 all have the capacity of 18 torpedoes/missiles on the racks and if the tubes are loaded prior to sailing for that extra loads, then in total 22 weapons.

I hope the 636 gets basing in Tartous and we see atleast four of these operating off the area.

JohninMK wrote:

Dima wrote:

sepheronx wrote:So the question is: were is the equipment? Russia has in its arsenal, especially in reserves, plenty of semi decent jets that would work, especially after some cheap modernization.  And the amount of AD systems available is a lot but once again, where are they?

Just having equipment is no solution, that need to be transported to the area of operation and that is severely lacking.

What does Russia have to transport its military wares? Small pr.775 landing ships....and thats all, with very limited capacity to accommodate the military stuffs like Buk-M2 etc. I have been a great supporter of upgrading/retaining the Pr.1174 landing ships and if I may take the pleasure of putting what if cases....then Pr.1174 would have had the capacity to transport atleast 40 units of Buk-M2 per ship!

What we saw instead of upgrading these ships or new built of their variants was the blunder of committing Mistrals!
For me, Mistrals was a blunder, first in terms of committing to buy them and then letting off the French for peanuts (!), saw in Mistrals thread about satisfaction of the refund, but I've strong disagreements on that coz, it was a bloody loss for Russia in terms of money, time and more importantly capability. See for once what Mistrals could have brought to the table in terms of lifting capablity to Syria...it was immense. So Russia lost pr.1174 capability and the successor never materialized.

The best or rather the last option (considering the urgency) that I see is to request/force the Chinese to help with the Type-071 ships and I have mentioned this many times w.r.t to Sustaining Syrian ops. These ships have much better lifting capacity and Russia needs to lift as much hardware as possible from the black sea to Syria before any sort of blockade/complication happen.

I dont think Russia is serious about actually defending Russians and fighting terrorism.  Or there would have been a proper response by now.

Russia is serious about fighting terrorism and protecting Syria but like anyone else, sometimes mistakes happens or error in judgements. But Russia cant act like a cowboy and go out blastsing whoever they see....whats required is a measured response and that's whats happening. Even I get frustrated sometimes, but be optimistic.

I hope they do move new equipment and more to the second airforce base.  I also hope Iran airforce gets involved.

With no upgrades to its airforce, mainly the MiG-29s and not much in numbers, its still limited. But if they can bring in their military a/c w.o compromising their own air-defence, the better. But Russia is the core here, be it in terms of MIC or prime mover. Everything needs to come from Russia. All I wish is Russia fast track (& also increasee the numbers) the MiG-29 deliveres to Syria and upgradation of Syrian and Iranian MiGs.

Fortunately you are not quite correct. OK the six or so Ropucha and Alligator class landing ships have a limited capacity but they are capable of delivering 50 or so MBT or similar every three weeks. But Russia bought a big RO-RO two deck ferry in the summer and is running that on the 3 week turnround as well. It can carry, from memory 2000tons, which is a lot of military stuff of all kinds. That ship plus the other seven container and general cargo/grain ships they bought is probably the reason they no longer carry stuff on the decks of the large landing ships.

Then there is that big new ammunition transport ship being accepted into the Northern Fleet in under 10 days.

Tubes no vertical launcher, they apparently carry only 8 cruise missiles tho + torpedos in normal operations.

China spokemen of the government says it support Russia operation in Syria...

Wake me up ,when they stop and do something different than cheap words.
How disappointing , and what a farce is the shangai cooperation organization.

If they dont help Russia in Syria ,that Russia is fighting terrorism and doing that legally with the green light of United Nations. Then i don't see ANY other scenario in the world where Russia
and China can work together over anything in military. Other than navy training and thats it.

Because China only major challenge is territorial issues over China sea and Taiwan.
And Russia will not fight for territorial issues. Things that is a matter of opinion.And only could fight outside its land for security and terrorism .


In fact i see more probability in France joining Russia alliance if Le Penn wins the next election ,
that China moving a single combat jet or warship to help Russia. at best they will only sell military hardware just like to any other nation with luck with a 3% discount in price for the fight against ISIS.      

Peter the Great was right ,to look to Europe because there is nothing else to look. He even warned to no trust a Turk. how wise was the guy. You never see leaders like him. He was defeated a couple of times on his life but never gave up and gave Russia the land that connects to Europe northern sea.

If i was leading Russia ,i will be more closer to Trump style.. just throw nukes at the cities controlled by Rebels and end the political correctness bullshit and you will see how they will surrender very fast, the west does not respect international laws why should Russia do it?

Dima wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:If that is all there is there then Turks are lucky. But I have a feeling that it might have brought some bigger "cousins"...

Does this class have vertical launchers for cruise missiles or do they use torpedo tubes for that? Me naval noob...

877/636 and 677 all have the capacity of 18 torpedoes/missiles on the racks and if the tubes are loaded prior to sailing for that extra loads, then in total 22 weapons.

I hope the 636 gets basing in Tartous and we see atleast four of these operating off the area.

"Carries 18 torpedoes with six in the torpedo tubes and 12 stored on the racks", this is what naval-technology says.

KiloGolf wrote:Rumors SAA allies loosing Banes and that Al Eis has been hit with VBIED.

Its not rumor,but cruel reality.
SAA once again failed miserably...

Vann7 wrote:China spokemen of the government says it support Russia operation in Syria...

Wake me up ,when they stop and do something different than cheap words.
How disappointing , and what a farce is the shangai cooperation organization.

If they dont help Russia in Syria ,that Russia is fighting terrorism and doing that legally with the green light of United Nations. Then i don't see ANY other scenario in the world where Russia
and China can work together over anything in military. Other than navy training and thats it.

In fact i see more probability in France joining Russia alliance if Le Penn wins the next election ,
that China moving a single combat jet or warship to help Russia. at best they will only sell military hardware just like to any other nation with luck with a 3% discount in price for the fight against ISIS.      

Peter the Great was right ,to look to Europe because there is nothing else to look. He even warned to no trust a Turk. how wise was the guy. You never see leaders like him. He was defeated a couple of times on his life but never gave up and gave Russia the land that connects to Europe northern sea.

If i was leading Russia ,i will be more closer to Trump style.. just throw nukes at the cities controlled by Rebels and end the political correctness bullshit and you will see how they will surrender very fast, the west does not respect international laws why should Russia do it?

China's long term aim is not cooperation with Russia - but rather turning Russia into a vassal or a colony.

Russia has 10 times smaller population but has 1/3 pf world's natural resources - why should China help it's potential rivalg et stronger.

More news, SAA have taken Zitan, Humaira & Qalaajiya, advanced in Zirba & encircled Khan Touman

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Dec-08/326479-syria-army-allies-advance-closer-to-aleppo-highway.ashx

Militarov wrote:"Carries 18 torpedoes with six in the torpedo tubes and 12 stored on the racks", this is what naval-technology says.

Ah yes. Sorry abt that mistake.

JohninMK wrote:Fortunately you are not quite correct. OK the six or so Ropucha and Alligator class landing ships have a limited capacity but they are capable of delivering 50 or so MBT or similar every three weeks. But Russia bought a big RO-RO two deck ferry in the summer and is running that on the 3 week turnround as well. It can carry, from memory 2000tons, which is a lot of military stuff of all kinds. That ship plus the other seven container and general cargo/grain ships they bought is probably the reason they no longer carry stuff on the decks of the large landing ships.

Then there is that big new ammunition transport ship being accepted into the Northern Fleet in under 10 days.

I'd be more than happy to be wrong if Russia is lifting all the heavies in numbers that is required to fortify Syrian and Russian presence.

Russians have found the black box from the Su-24 ambushed by Turkey.

http://lifenews.ru/news/174110

Knowledge is power!!!

Dima wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Fortunately you are not quite correct. OK the six or so Ropucha and Alligator class landing ships have a limited capacity but they are capable of delivering 50 or so MBT or similar every three weeks. But Russia bought a big RO-RO two deck ferry in the summer and is running that on the 3 week turnround as well. It can carry, from memory 2000tons, which is a lot of military stuff of all kinds. That ship plus the other seven container and general cargo/grain ships they bought is probably the reason they no longer carry stuff on the decks of the large landing ships.

Then there is that big new ammunition transport ship being accepted into the Northern Fleet in under 10 days.

I'd be more than happy to be wrong if Russia is lifting all the heavies in numbers that is required to fortify Syrian and Russian presence.

All we know is that those ships are being worked hard on a continuous round trip operation. Not really what they were designed for but they seem to be holding up OK. As to what they are carrying, we have no idea. All we do know is that there must be sufficient 'stuff' to carry for the MoD not to give them a break. But there is the ability to carry lots of SAMs if they want to.

I would like to see what else they are transporting to Syria.  Hopefully more pantsirs and buks.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
Russia has 10 times smaller population but has 1/3 pf world's natural resources - why should China help it's potential rivalg et stronger.

Because if they had any Intelligence ,they will know their own nation Sovereignty and Independence ,depends on Russia to exist. The American Imperialism does not accept
the sharing of power. They want to Rule the world and everyone else to be a colony.
SO china will be the next Target if Russia collapse ,like soviet union did it.  India too.
the so called "Americans new century" is the absolute control of the world and with military
bases in every part of it. If ISIS win in Syria and Russia forced to retreat for economy issues
those same American ISIS assets that China refused to fight in Syria ,they will have to fight in their own land later when exported ,but this time with far better weapons and training and numbers. And If ISIS become very rich in control of Syria and IRAQ oil ,they will be able to recruit a real Huge Muslin army that will threaten even China.

So effectively China selfishness of staying in the comfort zone ,when US do dangerous things in the world threatens their own Nation future.  The same is True about India. They could do a lot in syria and without being in direct combat ,just by sending attack drones or send warships to help Russia navy defense could be of a major help.  

It will be similar as if you have a building apartment you live in fire. but because your personal property is not in fire you choose to do nothing.  But everyone knows ,that just like terrorism..
the fire if it is not stopped it can spread to other places and sooner or later affect you too ,but this time the Fire will be so big ,that it will be too late for you to do anything.

The ISIS project of Americans to take control of Middle east.. it threatens the entire world dude.
and more specially the nations not aligned with US imperialism. and we already can see how
Europe is being affected by the 1 million refugees with potential fighters in their own land.
I have no doubt ISIS will be exported to ASIA and China if they successful in Syria and IRAQ.

IF China believe for a second.. that they will be allowed to be a super power and compete
with US ,just because they are flirting with london and investing a lot there.. they are seriously
mistaken. To defeat ISIS/Alqaeda in Syria and IRAQ is 100% on the interest of China.. is not
just a "middle east problem" but a world wide one. and it will affect them too in no less direct way that it affect Syria. NATO Will export ISIS to any place in the planet they need it. there are no less than terrorist from 100 countries in the world fighting in Syria. this cannot happen without a major support of US and its allies.

Vann7 wrote:China spokemen of the government says it support Russia operation in Syria...

Wake me up ,when they stop and do something different than cheap words.
How disappointing , and what a farce is the shangai cooperation organization.

China atleast have the backbone and voice to say that and have even rendered financial help all these years, along with Russia, to keep the Syrian Govt to meet their basic financial needs. That in itself is a big stuff.
We never saw the so called "next super/global-power" (as portrayed by the dumb Indian forums/media) even uttering a word in support of Syria/Russia in their counter-terrorists operation..

Dima wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Carries 18 torpedoes with six in the torpedo tubes and 12 stored on the racks", this is what naval-technology says.

Ah yes. Sorry abt that mistake.

Happens

Thanks for sub-info Dima, Militarov.



Old news but video inside...

Syrian Army Troops Take Control over Aleppo-Damascus Highway in 3rd Phase of Attacks + VIDEO

http://en.alalam.ir/news/1767404

The Syrian Army’s 4th Mechanized Division – in coordination with Hezbollah, Harakat Al-Nujaba (Iraqi paramilitary), and the National Defense Forces (NDF) of Aleppo City kicked-off the 3rd phase of their operations in the Southern parts of Aleppo with massive attacks on the terrorist-held villages of Burnah, ICARDA Farms, Khan Touman, Al-Zorba, and Al-Qarassi.

The primary objective of this 3rd phase is to officially cutoff the militants of Harakat Ahrar Al-Sham, Al-Nusra Front (Syrian Al-Qaeda group), Al-Islam Army, Nouriddeen Al-Zinki Movement, and Liwaa Suqour Al-Sham from their strategic supply route alone the Aleppo-Damascus Highway (M-5 Highway), which ultimately leads to the provincial capital of the Aleppo Governorate.

If successful, the Syrian Armed Forces and their allies will prepare for the 4th phase of this southern Aleppo offensive, which includes their reentry into the Idlib Governorate after being forced to withdraw due to Jaysh Al-Fateh’s (Army of Conquest) massive offensive this past summer; FNA reported................

Dima wrote:

Vann7 wrote:China spokemen of the government says it support Russia operation in Syria...

Wake me up ,when they stop and do something different than cheap words.
How disappointing , and what a farce is the shangai cooperation organization.

China atleast have the backbone and voice to say that and have even rendered financial help all these years, along with Russia, to keep the Syrian Govt to meet their basic financial needs. That in itself is a big stuff.
We never saw the so called "next super/global-power" (as portrayed by the dumb Indian forums/media) even uttering a word in support of Syria/Russia in their counter-terrorists operation..  

I don't think Russia has asked, and I don't think China needs to intervene at this stage.
Only at a later date may it be an attractive proposition for Russia.

Russia is saying "I am big enough to handle this". Syria is a Russian sphere of influence, not China's.
It would look wrong for Russia if China came along got involved. I think this is what Russia wants.

Now if Russia hit Turkey and all NATO got meddling, or the US did, then China would stand by Russia's side.

And where things count, China has voiced its support for Russia, inc re Syria.

Looks like the French carrier has defo gone to the Gulf, now leading US Naval Forces Central Command's Task Force 50

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3321

china is a good strategic partner till now but why the hell you think it will intervene in syria??? it has absolutely 0 to gain from it and a lot to risk in comparison to there own local difficult diplomatic and military situation in asia in the south china see and with taiwan.

who thought china was coming guns blazing to syria has lost his mind

Russia can't expect PRC to join this conflict when they've armed to the teeth and still do their main geopolitical opponent in South China sea. Vietnam.
Diplomatic and media support is more than enough for Putin.

Firebird wrote:

I don't think Russia has asked, and I don't think China needs to intervene at this stage.
Only at a later date may it be an attractive proposition for Russia.

Russia is saying "I am big enough to handle this". Syria is a Russian sphere of influence, not China's.
It would look wrong for Russia if China came along got involved. I think this is what Russia wants.

Now if Russia hit Turkey and all NATO got meddling, or the US did, then China would stand by Russia's side.

And where things count, China has voiced its support for Russia, inc re Syria.

So you think that if Turkey and Russia start a war and NATO helps Turkey , China can be
any help to Russia by being in Asia?  Absolutely not. China needs to be in the Syrian coast
with at least one warship..helping RUssia security zone.

You have been living under a rock if you say Russia have not been asking help. I can see
every week Putin asking for help in vain ,because no one listen.  

Russia is saying "I am big enough to handle this"

The most silly thing i have ever heard.  
Now you are making things up.. You really think Russia likes to be alone in the middle east dealing with a NATO coalition that grows by the time? dealing with a major problem that will affect the entire world.. including CHina and India too You think that RUssia will not appreciate if China or India navy was in the Syrian coast helping Russia in the defense at least of its navy ?

Do you know of anyone who will go alone to a big fight and not appreciate friends to help?
Be real dude.  If a major war start between Russia and NATO ,Russia will be 100% alone..
and it is this lack of support to Russia ,real support.. not just Bullshit empty words in air conditioner office in China. What makes US to increase its hostilities towards Russia and Syria.
But had there been a big coalition in Russia side.. it will give second thought to the nations trying to destroy Syria to continue.

All this fight on ISIS dude cost a lot of money ,dude.. that Russia will prefer to invest
on its own country and it is expensive because Russia is alone..and no other nation sharing
any responsibility in dealing with a global problem created by Americans  ,and helping in create pressure for them to stop their illegal war in Syria. IS pure cowardice,What China ,India and other major powers are doing.. totally shameful.  Is pathetic to see nations that can do a lot of help doing nothing to pressure US to stop its illegal war .  I guess that if the world depended of people like you ,we are will be doomed , because no one will do nothing or share any responsibility for problems that will also affect them directly. Is not just a middle east war..
but the early start of world war 3..and it will affect directly China , and India too ,because they have muslin populations. But also all the world too . It will affect the quality of life of every human being on this planet ..and Russia is literary saving the world there alone with a little help of IRAN.

Vann,

too much pessimism mate.

----

SAA have taken control of Rweiset Ya'qoub north of Al-Ziyarah in #Latakia countryside
https://twitter.com/Ald_Aba/status/674316111203188736

Solncepek wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:Rumors SAA allies loosing Banes and that Al Eis has been hit with VBIED.

Its not rumor,but cruel reality.
SAA once again failed miserably...

Quoting myself, the rumor is yet to be confirmed... I sense the insurgents may put it out there to cover their losses in the area. In any case here's a new map that factors it in:



SAA and co, have lost significant ground around Al Eis at the SW tip of their recent gains. But they gained some ground towards Zerbah (not fully shown in this map). We may need to give it a few days for the front to stabilize.

South Front update

OK another Mike Whitney article, very topical this one. Here are its conclusions. Looks as if its gonna get real nasty.

Blackmail? Is that what we’re talking about, blackmail?

It sure sounds like it.

Let’s summarize: Erdogan intentionally releases tens of thousands of Syrian refugees into Europe to put pressure on EU politicians who quickly lose the support of their people and face the meteoric rise of right wing parties. And then, the next thing you know, Merkel, Hollande and every other EU leader is looking to cut a deal with Erdogan to keep the refugees in Turkey.

Isn’t that how it all went down? Except we’re missing one important factoid here, because according to the first op-ed “The increase in military cooperation within NATO… and the piling up of NATO forces near Turkey’s border”…took place in parallel with the deal between Ankara and the Brussels.”

Get it? So there was a quid pro quo that no one wants to talk about. In other words, Germany, France and the UK agreed to support Erdogan’s loony plan to conduct military operations in Syria, risking a serious dust-up with Russia, in order to save their own miserable political careers.

Boy, if that doesn’t take the cake, than I don’t know what does.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article53230.html