Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Azi wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Hole wrote:Thank you. I needed a good laugh and your post is really funny. F-35 a top line fighter...

Sorry dude just not delusional like most people here.

Better radar, better sensors, better ew, better esm and more reliable missiles.

It can passively track su35 from hundred of miles out leaking all those emissions blasting it’s radar. Su35 won’t  even know the f35 was there.

It’s the digital age now aerodynamics aren’t as important.

Western radars and micro electronics are still far better than any Russian stuff

Sorry that`s complete and utterly bullshit...from the start to the end!

What is the basis of your claims? Because western technology performed so good against the military superpowers Iraq, Yugoslavia and Lybia? It was state of the art western technology against 60ies soviet technology (some pieces 70ies technology).

The F-22 is a good jet but it is more or less cold war technology. The F-22 was never really upgraded, it lacks an IRST, the onboard computers are early 90ies technology and the radar is not better than that of modern Sukhoi fighters.

And the myth that the F-35 is invisible to a Su-35? Why do you think so? How can the F-35 see the Su-35? Yes...with it's radar and than it's not stealth anymore? You simply know NOTHING about stealth! The concept of stealth is that one aircraft will scan with the radar and the others stay silent, sharing the data with the whole squad. An AWACS can provide the data too. Second component of stealth is that long range missiles can lose the weapon track, if the stealth jet is agile enough. And here we come to the flaw of the F-35...it's a lame sitting duck! The F-35 is so lame it can't chase Tu-22M and Tu-160, it lacks simply the speed.

Why is USA purchasing the F-15 in it's newest variant? Because F-35 is perfoming soo good?

About ESM...the Russians have far better systems than USA!

I'm tired so i stop writing here....please inform yourself before you write bullshit. Constructive criticism is okay, this a forum and everything can be discussed...but you are just trolling!

F35 has an AESA radar. Do you know what AESA and LPI is and it works when combined with stealth? F35 is not going to just blast it’s AESA not stop. It will intermittently scan and rely on the LPI features to keep tabs on the su35 without being detected. It also has the best EO system in the world and arguably the best ESM maybe Raphael’s spectra is better.

Russian ESM systems better? Maybe the ground based ones. The small ones that you can actually put inside a fighter jet? Nope sorry. Russian micro electronics have always been severely lagging

Nothing I said is  bullshit it’s common knowledge outside this forum. Even the Russians themselves admit they are giving up “look first shoot first” until they field a workable 5th gen jet.

Su35 will have to rely on data links and vectoring via ground based radars that Russia has. But those radars aren’t always around or close enough to do the job.

And even with assuming AWACS and ground based radar can detect the f35 the su35 will still have to provide weapons tracking with its own radar. Just knowing the f35s general location will not be enough.

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Azi wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Hole wrote:Thank you. I needed a good laugh and your post is really funny. F-35 a top line fighter...

Sorry dude just not delusional like most people here.



...stuff

Sorry that`s complete and utterly bullshit...from the start to the end!

What is the basis of your claims? Because western technology performed so good against the military superpowers Iraq, Yugoslavia and Lybia? It was state of the art western technology against 60ies soviet technology (some pieces 70ies te

I'm tired so i stop writing here....please inform yourself before you write bullshit. Constructive criticism is okay, this a forum and everything can be discussed...but you are just trolling!

F35 has an AESA radar. Do you know what AESA and LPI is and it works when combined with stealth? F35 is not going to just blast it’s AESA not stop. It will intermittently scan and rely on the LPI features to keep tabs on the su35 without being detected. It also has the best EO system in the world and arguably the best ESM maybe Raphael’s spectra is better.

Russian ESM systems better? Maybe the ground based ones. The small ones that you can actually put inside a fighter jet? Nope sorry. Russian micro electronics have always been severely lagging

Nothing I said is  bullshit it’s common knowledge outside this forum. Even the Russians themselves admit they are giving up “look first shoot first” until they field a workable 5th gen jet.

Su35 will have to rely on data links and vectoring via ground based radars that Russia has. But those radars aren’t always around or close enough to do the job.

And even with assuming AWACS and ground based radar can detect the f35 the su35 will still have to provide weapons tracking with its own radar. Just knowing the f35s general location will not be enough.

bitcointrader70 wrote:
F35 has an AESA radar. Do you know what AESA and LPI is and it works when combined with stealth? F35 is not going to just blast it’s AESA not stop. It will intermittently scan and rely on the LPI features to keep tabs on the su35 without being detected. It also has the best EO system in the world and arguably the best ESM maybe Raphael’s spectra is better.

Russian ESM systems better? Maybe the ground based ones. The small ones that you can actually put inside a fighter jet? Nope sorry. Russian micro electronics have always been severely lagging

Nothing I said is  bullshit it’s common knowledge outside this forum. Even the Russians themselves admit they are giving up “look first shoot first” until they field a workable 5th gen jet.

Su35 will have to rely on data links and vectoring via ground based radars that Russia has. But those radars aren’t always around or close enough to do the job.

And even with assuming AWACS and ground based radar can detect the f35 the su35 will still have to provide weapons tracking with its own radar. Just knowing the f35s general location will not be enough.

Singular_Transform wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:
F35 has an AESA radar. Do you know what AESA and LPI is and it works when combined with stealth? F35 is not going to just blast it’s AESA not stop. It will intermittently scan and rely on the LPI features to keep tabs on the su35 without being detected. It also has the best EO system in the world and arguably the best ESM maybe Raphael’s spectra is better.

Russian ESM systems better? Maybe the ground based ones. The small ones that you can actually put inside a fighter jet? Nope sorry. Russian micro electronics have always been severely lagging

Nothing I said is  bullshit it’s common knowledge outside this forum. Even the Russians themselves admit they are giving up “look first shoot first” until they field a workable 5th gen jet.

Su35 will have to rely on data links and vectoring via ground based radars that Russia has. But those radars aren’t always around or close enough to do the job.

And even with assuming AWACS and ground based radar can detect the f35 the su35 will still have to provide weapons tracking with its own radar. Just knowing the f35s general location will not be enough.

LPI means a 30-40 years old early radar warning device, or somethign that I made at home from 10£ won't be enought to detect it.

I have to spend 1000 £ to detect it.

The F-35 has smaller radar than the Su-35 , and nothing can compensate this difference.


And finally, radar technology needs good RF enginers and analogue circuits.

is common mediocrity about handling the topic.

Atmosphere wrote:>It can passively track su35 from hundred of miles out leaking all those emissions blasting it’s radar. Su35 won’t  even know the f35 was there.

That's not how it works. ESM systems have the ability to see from "hundereds of miles" because radar waves have to travel once not twice like on radars, that's nothing impressive, even the old brich RWR on the MIG25 guaranteed at least 120 percent the range of the radar it is sampling, and that's ancient soviet tech.

"leaking all those emissions blasting it’s radar" is some thing every radar does, including APG-81. LPI is a set of techniques made to blend with background noise but there are counter LPI techniques on modern ESM systems as well, Why do you think raptor pilots flew on radio silence in syria if LPI could ensure them not being detected? Where's common sense? And why would ESM systems exist if LPI was a silver bullet? Then there's the fact that these techniques are not related to antenna types, even mechanically scanned arrays can have LPI emissions, Both N035 and N011M, let alone N036 all have frequency agility, and there is no hardware limitation to have Waveform agility as well since that's not an antenna related thing.

"won’t  even know the f35 was there."
Bull. Where's your breakdown on how APG81 vs SPO150-35 would go? where's the analysis? Or is it that i am to assume that a malyutka missile will destroy an abrams head on because it has the name "anti-tank" missile in it ?


"F35 has an AESA radar. Do you know what AESA and LPI is and it works when combined with stealth?"
Do you know how LPI works against the various processing techniques built specifically to counter LPI patterns? And what's up with the AESA fetishism?

"F35 is not going to just blast it’s AESA not stop. It will intermittently scan and rely on the LPI features to keep tabs on the su35 without being detected. "
no.

" It also has the best EO system in the world "
Alright give me your breakdown of the F35's EO suit vs 101KS atoll. Full technical breakdown. I want to know how exactly it is the best.

"arguably the best ESM maybe Raphael’s spectra is better."
There is literally no bit of info that suggests that it is better than SPO-150-35. This comes from thin air.

"The small ones that you can actually put inside a fighter jet? Nope sorry. Russian micro electronics have always been severely lagging"
Do you actually grasp how big this topic is? This common "knowledge" is not F-16.net, by all means every bit of info out there clearly shows that russian Micro Electronics are at least as good as the US counterparts, the T/R modules on a Zhuk AMh are the same size of their US analogues of the same period while even having lower noise figures. That's one example out of many.

"it’s common knowledge outside this forum"
Micro electronics are way too complicated for them to be "common knowledge". What there is,

is common mediocrity about handling the topic.

"Su35 will have to rely on data links and vectoring via ground based radars that Russia has. But those radars aren’t always around or close enough to do the job.

And even with assuming AWACS and ground based radar can detect the f35 the su35 will still have to provide weapons tracking with its own radar. Just knowing the f35s general location will not be enough."

Where's your breakdown on how the APG81 vs Khibiny would go? And why are you assuming that ESM won't detect the APG81? Where's the evidence? And why are you assuming that N035 or OLS35 would not be enough for weapons guidance at the NEZ of an R-77-1? Or is it that you believe that the pea size RCS would be at any area besides the narrow front?And why are you assuming that the range of the onboard radar would not be enough with a very narrowed down search sector provided by AWACs and ground radar guidance?

It's ridiculous how you're claiming this entire bull without a shred of evidence.

bitcointrader70 wrote:
Yeah america spent trillions of dollars on development of new  radars, micro electronics, and fighter jets only to have some guys on a pro Russia defense forum tell them that their systems don’t work. Lmao. This forum is so amusing sometimes. Most people on here haven’t even been to Russia one time or seen a real Russian airplane or sam in person.

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:
F35 has an AESA radar. Do you know what AESA and LPI is and it works when combined with stealth? F35 is not going to just blast it’s AESA not stop. It will intermittently scan and rely on the LPI features to keep tabs on the su35 without being detected. It also has the best EO system in the world and arguably the best ESM maybe Raphael’s spectra is better.

Russian ESM systems better? Maybe the ground based ones. The small ones that you can actually put inside a fighter jet? Nope sorry. Russian micro electronics have always been severely lagging

Nothing I said is  bullshit it’s common knowledge outside this forum. Even the Russians themselves admit they are giving up “look first shoot first” until they field a workable 5th gen jet.

Su35 will have to rely on data links and vectoring via ground based radars that Russia has. But those radars aren’t always around or close enough to do the job.

And even with assuming AWACS and ground based radar can detect the f35 the su35 will still have to provide weapons tracking with its own radar. Just knowing the f35s general location will not be enough.

LPI means a 30-40 years old early radar warning device, or somethign that I made at home from 10£ won't be enought to detect it.

I have to spend 1000 £ to detect it.

The F-35 has smaller radar than the Su-35 , and nothing can compensate this difference.


And finally, radar technology needs good RF enginers and analogue circuits.

Yeah america spent trillions of dollars on development of new  radars, micro electronics, and fighter jets only to have some guys on a pro Russia defense forum tell them that their systems don’t work. Lmao. This forum is so amusing sometimes. Most people on here haven’t even been to Russia one time or seen a real Russian airplane or sam in person.

Podlodka77 wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:
F35 has an AESA radar. Do you know what AESA and LPI is and it works when combined with stealth? F35 is not going to just blast it’s AESA not stop. It will intermittently scan and rely on the LPI features to keep tabs on the su35 without being detected. It also has the best EO system in the world and arguably the best ESM maybe Raphael’s spectra is better.

Russian ESM systems better? Maybe the ground based ones. The small ones that you can actually put inside a fighter jet? Nope sorry. Russian micro electronics have always been severely lagging

Nothing I said is  bullshit it’s common knowledge outside this forum. Even the Russians themselves admit they are giving up “look first shoot first” until they field a workable 5th gen jet.

Su35 will have to rely on data links and vectoring via ground based radars that Russia has. But those radars aren’t always around or close enough to do the job.

And even with assuming AWACS and ground based radar can detect the f35 the su35 will still have to provide weapons tracking with its own radar. Just knowing the f35s general location will not be enough.

LPI means a 30-40 years old early radar warning device, or somethign that I made at home from 10£ won't be enought to detect it.

I have to spend 1000 £ to detect it.

The F-35 has smaller radar than the Su-35 , and nothing can compensate this difference.


And finally, radar technology needs good RF enginers and analogue circuits.

Yeah america spent trillions of dollars on development of new  radars, micro electronics, and fighter jets only to have some guys on a pro Russia defense forum tell them that their systems don’t work. Lmao. This forum is so amusing sometimes. Most people on here haven’t even been to Russia one time or seen a real Russian airplane or sam in person.

IGNORANCY; The Russian army is not in Mexico or Canada.
The problem is that most Americans do not respect other cultures. Why in most other countries can they learn someone's name (not typical for their area) and pronounce it correctly while in the USA they give nicknames, because they don't even try to learn a name ? Why only in the US and UK are they not able to say BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Audi correctly? The United States has no real friends or allies, except the UK and Australia. Although, I am more and more convinced that the UK sees the United States as a stupid raw material that it can use for its own self-interest at a given moment. There is no love in international relations and it never will be. If Germany had only half of the military budget of the United States - they would tear you apart! Why ? No one drives Cadillac or Chevy in Europe, thats why.
Live and let others live, that is what the United States needs to learn.

FAKE PATRIOTISM; There can be no real patriotism in a country that has the inscription IN GOD WE TRUST on the banknotes.
To me, the United States has never looked like a serious country, because everything related to the United States is in fact one big show. In fact, the "land of the brave" does not even know the true meaning of the word patriotism.
For idiots, there are movies like Saving private Ryan, which is a great movie, but imagine what movies Germans or Russians could make about their battles in World War II? For Americans, World War II was also a business and a show, so most Americans baked barbecues and drank beer during that war as well. The situation would be completely different if there was an enemy army 25 kilometers from Washington, as was the case with Moscow in 1941.

"IN GOD WE TRUST AND SUPREMACY"; Yes, the United States has spent billions of dollars, but there are still problems in USA, not just in Russia. For example, the United States built the aforementioned Zumwalt class destroyers, but further construction was abandoned and they returned to the construction of the Arleigh Burke class - IIA Restart and IIA Technology insertions. In 24 years, the United States has built 62 Los Angeles-class multi-purpose submarines, while since 1999, only 19 Virginia submarines have been delivered to the US Navy. As for the F-22 aircraft, I don't think ANY country in the world would stop producing an aircraft that is so good, as the United States says it is - but they did it.

DESTINY; There is no country that is eternal and will rule forever. One day, China, Russia or the United States will no longer exist. Even the stars in the sky are not eternal, so they have their own lifespan - they explode in the end. The United States is not the Roman Empire, nor will it be as glorious in history as the Roman Empire. Many countries (mine too) have churches hundreds of years older than Columbus' discovery of America.
Hey man, even black holes are not eternal, let alone your USA.

TMA1 wrote:

Hubris, bro. We were given blessings few other societies had recieved and we squandered them. Worse, we began to believe all these blessings were due solely to our own might and the glory of our might. We forgot the old greek tales of the nemesis that hubris always breeds. I dont think the Almighty is happy with us homie. Dont think He is one bit pleased.

bitcointrader70 wrote:What China got out of the Su-35 purchase, (PLAAF officer interview)

This is a surprisingly candid interview about the Su-35 and it's capabilities vis-a-vis Chinese built Flankers

​

[https://mil.sina.cn/sd/2018-12-09/detail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html?from=wap&fbclid=IwAR0Zimt46\_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc\_jbkDrSlt\_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g](https://mil.sina.cn/sd/2018-12-09/detail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html?from=wap&fbclid=IwAR0Zimt46_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc_jbkDrSlt_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g)

​

Google translate link here: [https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmil.sina.cn%2Fsd%2F2018-12-09%2Fdetail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html%3Ffrom%3Dwap%26fbclid%3DIwAR0Zimt46\_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc\_jbkDrSlt\_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmil.sina.cn%2Fsd%2F2018-12-09%2Fdetail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html%3Ffrom%3Dwap%26fbclid%3DIwAR0Zimt46_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc_jbkDrSlt_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g)

​

Highlights:

\- The SU-35 serves as an excellent benchmark for the Chinese military to gauge the effectiveness of their own development vs international standards.

\- Su-35 is very maneuverable, possibly the most maneuverable fighter in the PLAAF

\- The N035E is an excellent PESA radar. It's pretty much the best PESA radar you can practically develop.

\- However, it's substantially weaker than the current generation of Chinese AESAs.

\- The N035E radar has some interesting features, for example it is capable of detecting a target at extended ranges (350km) if it's only required to scan a small area (about the size of the HUD). This is not particularly useful without AWACs cueing.  

\- ESM/ECM systems are not as good as the J-16s. If the J16 were to be rated a 10/10, the Su-35 would be an 8.5/10 on ESM and 8/10 on ECM performance.

\- The IRST is also worse, due to the state of the Russian electronics/optics industry.  

\- The R-77 and R-73 can be used on China's older stock of Russian fighters (Su-27/Su-30MKKs).

\- R-77/R-73 are unremarkable, and performance trails the Chinese PL-10 and PL-15 missiles. (Wouldn't the PL-8 and PL-12 be a better comparison?)

\- The Su-35 has an interesting feature, the "БОСЭС" or "Duel" which, if programmed with the capability of the opposing fighter, can automatically track the enemy in real time and recommend optimized decisions. It presents a good look into the Russian understanding of air combat modeling  - and China may seek to do something similar for their 5th generation fights. (Coupled with advances in Chinese AI technology).

\- The 117S engine is very good. It has 13% more dry thrust than the older AL-31F, which is already superior to the domestic WS-10.

\- The Su-35s have some form of datalink capability, and have some level of integration into Chinese air defense networks.

\- The Su-35 is giving China lots of experience with a super maneuverable thrust vectoring aircraft, and is influencing Chinese decisions on where to go with fighter development.  

\- They've learned quite a bit via dissimilar air combat training exercises with the Su-35.

\- "the 117S engine is also the key subsystem for the first time after the introduction of the Su-35" - I think this means that the engine is the primary reason the Su-35 was bought.

\- The officer's dream heavy 4.5th generation fighter would be a J-16 with 117S engines.


A pretty honest interview about su35 from a Chinese insider.

Thinking that su35 can take on an f35 is some deluded thinking from people on this forum. F35 has a 360 degree DAS. Better IIR missiles in WVR range. Better long range missiles in AMRAAM a radar with much better performance. AESA is always better than PESA. A better ECM package. And stealth.

Look first see first kill first.  Flankers EO isn’t as good as the f35s Garry and i seriously doubt the flanker has the necessary sensor fusion to reliably Q off AWACS/ground based radars to launch R77 and give mid course corrections with its own radar that won’t be able to see the F35 from the reasonable distance. Russian entire air defence doctrine is based on its fighters avoiding massive air battles with western 4.5 and 5th gen jets for a reason. They will rely a lot on artillery, long range missiles, and their ground based air defenses to get the job done.

Podlodka77 wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:What China got out of the Su-35 purchase, (PLAAF officer interview)

This is a surprisingly candid interview about the Su-35 and it's capabilities vis-a-vis Chinese built Flankers

​

[https://mil.sina.cn/sd/2018-12-09/detail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html?from=wap&fbclid=IwAR0Zimt46\_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc\_jbkDrSlt\_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g](https://mil.sina.cn/sd/2018-12-09/detail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html?from=wap&fbclid=IwAR0Zimt46_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc_jbkDrSlt_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g)

​

Google translate link here: [https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmil.sina.cn%2Fsd%2F2018-12-09%2Fdetail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html%3Ffrom%3Dwap%26fbclid%3DIwAR0Zimt46\_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc\_jbkDrSlt\_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmil.sina.cn%2Fsd%2F2018-12-09%2Fdetail-ihmutuec7501376.d.html%3Ffrom%3Dwap%26fbclid%3DIwAR0Zimt46_KUVu7lzkOy6OXCwaKc_jbkDrSlt_K9Qdn1WqMdPc7DTwlb24g)

​

Highlights:

\- The SU-35 serves as an excellent benchmark for the Chinese military to gauge the effectiveness of their own development vs international standards.

\- Su-35 is very maneuverable, possibly the most maneuverable fighter in the PLAAF

\- The N035E is an excellent PESA radar. It's pretty much the best PESA radar you can practically develop.

\- However, it's substantially weaker than the current generation of Chinese AESAs.

\- The N035E radar has some interesting features, for example it is capable of detecting a target at extended ranges (350km) if it's only required to scan a small area (about the size of the HUD). This is not particularly useful without AWACs cueing.  

\- ESM/ECM systems are not as good as the J-16s. If the J16 were to be rated a 10/10, the Su-35 would be an 8.5/10 on ESM and 8/10 on ECM performance.

\- The IRST is also worse, due to the state of the Russian electronics/optics industry.  

\- The R-77 and R-73 can be used on China's older stock of Russian fighters (Su-27/Su-30MKKs).

\- R-77/R-73 are unremarkable, and performance trails the Chinese PL-10 and PL-15 missiles. (Wouldn't the PL-8 and PL-12 be a better comparison?)

\- The Su-35 has an interesting feature, the "БОСЭС" or "Duel" which, if programmed with the capability of the opposing fighter, can automatically track the enemy in real time and recommend optimized decisions. It presents a good look into the Russian understanding of air combat modeling  - and China may seek to do something similar for their 5th generation fights. (Coupled with advances in Chinese AI technology).

\- The 117S engine is very good. It has 13% more dry thrust than the older AL-31F, which is already superior to the domestic WS-10.

\- The Su-35s have some form of datalink capability, and have some level of integration into Chinese air defense networks.

\- The Su-35 is giving China lots of experience with a super maneuverable thrust vectoring aircraft, and is influencing Chinese decisions on where to go with fighter development.  

\- They've learned quite a bit via dissimilar air combat training exercises with the Su-35.

\- "the 117S engine is also the key subsystem for the first time after the introduction of the Su-35" - I think this means that the engine is the primary reason the Su-35 was bought.

\- The officer's dream heavy 4.5th generation fighter would be a J-16 with 117S engines.


A pretty honest interview about su35 from a Chinese insider.

Thinking that su35 can take on an f35 is some deluded thinking from people on this forum. F35 has a 360 degree DAS. Better IIR missiles in WVR range. Better long range missiles in AMRAAM a radar with much better performance. AESA is always better than PESA. A better ECM package. And stealth.

Look first see first kill first.  Flankers EO isn’t as good as the f35s Garry and i seriously doubt the flanker has the necessary sensor fusion to reliably Q off AWACS/ground based radars to launch R77 and give mid course corrections with its own radar that won’t be able to see the F35 from the reasonable distance. Russian entire air defence doctrine is based on its fighters avoiding massive air battles with western 4.5 and 5th gen jets for a reason. They will rely a lot on artillery, long range missiles, and their ground based air defenses to get the job done.

Yeah, 4 out of the 187 serial F-22 have been crashed so far + 1 prototype. Magnificent plane, what would it be like to fly more often? Air defence ? Who says it would be just a defense?
1. And what if a couple of Tu-95MS and Tu-160 planes take off and break all the airports from which these F-35 planes take off from the territory of Russia?
2. What if the MiG-31 and Tu-22M3 start striking American aircraft carriers with Kinzhal missiles ?
3. What if Russian submarines and surface warships also strike at NATO installations in Europe?
4. What will be left of the NATO doctrine if the Russians use Iskander missiles?
5. How do you plan to approach the Russian shores guarded by the supersonic anti-ship missile system Bastion?
6. How do you plan to disrupt systems such as Murmansk-BN, Krasukha-2/4 and Moscow-1 ?
7. What will happen to your AWACS planes and tankers in collision with Russian Air Force fighter jets?
8. What will happen to American ABM systems if they are hit by the Avant-Garde?
9. What will happen to the GPS global surveillance system if NATO comes into conflict with Russia?
10. How do they think they will start a conflict with Russia when neither France, England and Germany together have even 700 tanks?
11. When you're done masturbating to American military propaganda, then write.

My discussion was solely for su35 vs top line western jets in a direct confrontation in air to air battles. Russia CURRENTLY DOES NOT have any fighter in sufficient numbers that can trade 50/50 vs Raphael/gripen/f35/f22.

Mir wrote:

My discussion was solely for su35 vs top line western jets in a direct confrontation in air to air battles. Russia CURRENTLY DOES NOT have any fighter in sufficient numbers that can trade 50/50 vs Raphael/gripen/f35/f22.

I have already pointed out that both the F-22 and F-35 suffer some serious issues that questions their combat availability on any sustainable level. The Rafale (clearly you're not French!) is excellent but I see now you've thrown in the Gripen for backup as well!
I don't consider the Gripen a top notch fighter but it can probably give the F-35 some serious headaches.
The Chinese bought the Su-35 to copy the tech for their future variants so it must be pretty good. Now I am not sure if the Chinese can offer any of their own versions of the Su-27 family on the export market (license restrictions?) but if they can they certainly haven't had any success that I can recall?
So this is likely just a cheap PR shot

bitcointrader70 wrote:
So gripen will give the stealth jet with the best avionics package in the world problems but it will lose to SU35. I want whatever weed you got.

Israel seems to have no problems keeping their f35s running.

jaguar_br wrote:Is there any plan for modernizing actual VKS Irbis and Bars radars ( Su-30/Su-35 ) into AESA type?

Mir wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:
So gripen will give the stealth jet with the best avionics package in the world problems but it will lose to SU35. I want whatever weed you got.

Israel seems to have no problems keeping their f35s running.

The big issue with the F-35 is that it is not a fighter like it's predecessor the F-16. It can not be used as an interceptor against anything that flies any faster than the Tu-95. It does have BVR capability with a minimal load-out in "stealth" mode but has no capability as a pure dogfighter. The Rafale and the Sukhois will beat it every time 6-0, 6-0. The F-16 proved it in dog fights pitted against the F-35.

The F-35 is basically a strike aircraft (that's why Israel has no problem with it) - but again with very minimal loadout in "stealth mode".
If you believe it's some super multi-whatever fighter - so be it.

The rest of the world envy the weed we grow around here!

Both of those planes would have to detect and get passed the BVR stage first. Second f35 has 360 degree DAS and superior EO for passive tracking. In WVR it still has aimx9 that is IIR which is a better seeker than the Russian version. So it can essentially launch even if the planes aren’t in the pilots field of view. It’s the digital age now.

In WVR it still has aimx9 that is IIR which is a better seeker than the Russian version. So it can essentially launch even if the planes aren’t in the pilots field of view. It’s the digital age now.