PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

Good photoshop though ....that's how it should like with the new engines

PapaDragon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:It is a photo shop.
Sorry.

Fuck

Posting photoshopped images should be permaban offense...

You jumped on the gun good

Serrated nose gave it away tho...

Yeah, I got fooled at Keypublishing forum too lol

Even if that is a shop, it's probably very close to the final product.

Some rumours/speculations from the Ru net...

The initial batch of 12 will consist of 10 x aircraft with the 117 engine + 2 with the new Izd-30 engines. The bulk of the order will be handed over in 2019. The ones with the 117 engines will be re-engined with the new engines later on when the Izd-30 enters serial production. The initial batch will be used for further tests to work out SOP's and tactics for operational use

T-50-2 with the new engine from a different perspective

How many hours at full thrust flight does it take to determine if a jet engine is safe?

My bad for hoping that that Russian arms industry would be capable of not being totally incompetent all the time.

Yeah, those incompetent fools are just useless aren't they, because everyone is making engines with 18 tons thrust, not to mention 5th gen fighters...


...useless bastards...

Or it could just be sour grapes from a frustrated SOB on the internet who just wants to see something better than what is rammed down his throat every day from the US propaganda machine...

Some of you guys need to chill a bit, methinks.

I was the author of that photoshopped picture, back at the Keypublishing forums.

Now, what I did was simply to combine a bunch of totally legit things that we've seen so far. Let me run you through them...

Saturn 30 serrated nozzle, on the Sukhoi Su-57LL engine testbed (formerly T-50-2/#52), first seen in 2017:


Su-35S-style anti-glare black stuff around the cockpit area, first seen in the very same, above Su-57LL in 2017:


Serrated nose/radome, on the original T-50-2/#52 (first seen in 2011):


Covered (non-bare metal Flanker style) engine pods, first seen in T-50-6 (and then in all subsequent ones):


Digital splinter camouflage, first seen in T-50-9:



New, reduced contrast splinter camouflage, first seen on T-50-11 (#511, in 2017):



That last picture obviously being my starting point when I photoshopped in all the other things. Yet, all I basically did with my photoshopping was to add 1+1+1+1 - because you can see where this is going, with all these incremental and back-and-forth things. So that's basically it, my photoshop was an attempt to envision the serial model, combining all the things they've tested back in the prototypes. Russian aerospace engineering tends to be highly non-linear, it doesn't follow an alpha-beta-version pattern chronologically, but it goes back and forth like crazy. When the eventual serial model finally hits the shelves, you'll see what I mean. I'm almost willing to bet that it won't be too far from my earlier photoshop excercise.

Neutrality wrote:Even if that is a shop, it's probably very close to the final product.

At least this guy gets it.

PapaDragon wrote:

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:Some of you guys need to chill a bit, methinks.

I was the author of that photoshopped picture, back at the Keypublishing forums..............

Nicely done, cool skillz

Small request: add a notice or watermark next time, you know just for those of us more easily excitable

It's not my fault that one of your users lifted it off Keypub without mentioning the source. I made it pretty clear that it was a PS job, and on top of that I'm pretty known thereabouts in general for my PS jobs.

I am however glad that this little thing of mine received so much attention. As you can see in my post above, none of the things I threw into that PS job were actually fantasy inventions of mine -- oh no, they are all real, and all have showed up in various T-50 prototypes over the years. Including the serrated nose. So, yeah, what I said above, basically.

Best course of action from now on: shit on Russia preemptively until you have proof that they done something right for a change.

Yeah, so just keep doing what you are doing... we need another Kilogolf here to remind us who the enemy is...

Funny that I call you on being a whiny little bitch and your response is that you wish to continue being the worst sort of fanboi... the 14 year old everything has to happen now or it is junk sort of fanboi.

You must be a real to be around at christmas time....

It's not my fault that one of your users lifted it off Keypub without mentioning the source. I made it pretty clear that it was a PS job, and on top of that I'm pretty known thereabouts in general for my PS jobs.

Don't take it personally... what you did was not much different from an artists impression of what a newer model will look like.

Anyone who took that two and added two of their own and came up with four... well that is their problem.

Kilo also posts blatantly stupid and bullshit stuff that I called him out on, particularly nonesense in economics.  Regarding the shit flinging you and almost everyone else does in the Navy thread (you are guilty too) degrades this forums as well.

So don't try to act as if you are innocent.

You can post amazing stuff, but also get aggitated rather easy and then go on a tirade. I know, I'm no better.

One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.

In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.

I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.

My bad for hoping that that Russian arms industry would be capable of not being totally incompetent all the time.

I for one have to say your saying BS here. Its been a few weeks since the Izd.30 entered testing. If anything, work is going ahead of schedule.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.

In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.

I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.

My bad for hoping that that Russian arms industry would be capable of not being totally incompetent all the time.

I for one have to say your saying BS here. Its been a few weeks since the Izd.30 entered testing. If anything, work is going ahead of schedule.

Only area you can call them incompetent on is the naval area they are doing fairly well with the army and Airforce.

Isos wrote:

One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.

In effect they're claiming that it sucks at energy maneuverability.

I find this extremely counterintuitive, since the T-50 has the best T/W ratio in the world, and because TVC improves it further. One could argue that it has too much drag, but the T-50 is extremely streamlined.

They make their fighters supermanoeuvrable so that they have the advantage on the first turn and lunch their missiles. They don't expect their sukhoi to fly around a target for 10 minutes and play with it like most poeple think ... western fighters are very manoeuvrable too russian are not stupid.

Once it lunches a missile the target will have to use evasive actions and the sukhoi will have time to get in a better position again and even use guns. Its all about tactics and pilot. A mig 21 could easily shot down a su 57 if it is badly piloted.
What you see on shows is made by test pilots who have a lot of experience. Don t expect every pilot beung that good.

But what is the whole claim that the Su-57 loses more energy than an F-22 during high speed turns?

You mean like singlehandedly keeping treads about Russian Coast Guard, Icebreakers and Vostochnii Spaceport alive (even though barely anybody seems to give a shit about those) or post news about Russian Space Programe, Syrian War, Borei and Yasen subs, Crimean Bridge, etc... ?

Singlehandedly? You are too modest...

Your demands for heads to roll and people to be shot in the space threads is no better... you would have made Stalin proud with your short temper.

As for KiloGolf, just because he doesn't post rosy fairytale bullshit about some fictional crap that Russia is supposedly building (hint: they don't) like that retard ehenia makes him an ''enemy''?

Enemy of what exactly?

Someone who wants to do harm... in this case to Russia.

You don't want to see Russia succeed, you just want to bitch and moan at their failures.

And of course they will fail at things... those who never fail never do.

KiloGolf is Greek. You are from New Zealand and that troll pisshead spammer is from Spain. I will take Kilo's opinion about Russia over yours any day of the we

A Serb taking the moaning of a Greek over the explanations of a Kiwi or a Spaniard... yeah... sounds like a joke if ever I heard one.

Hitch your wagon to the bitching train for all I care... not my problem.

Oh and I suppose you hear about latest hit by the spammer: apparently Russians are already building nuclear destroyers in secret. Yup, that got posted by that clown and you still haven't deleted that crap. Good job mod, really keeping the quality on the up and up...

Why should I delete what Eehnie is posting when I haven't deleted your bitching either?

One more subtle western propaganda point about the T-50 is that it somehow "loses too much energy" when turning at high speed, due to it being supermaneuverable.

Funny, because in a dogfight you actually bleed if you are not manouverable enough... so they are claiming the new Russian stealth fighter is too manouverable... WTF would they know?

I for one have to say your saying BS here. Its been a few weeks since the Izd.30 entered testing. If anything, work is going ahead of schedule.

X2... I have never seen any quote or public estimate that the new engines would be installed on all new aircraft by now... he is just being bitchy.

Only area you can call them incompetent on is the naval area they are doing fairly well with the army and Airforce.

They are balancing a budget and a requirement with a set of resources and needs.

They have corvettes more potent than NATO destroyers but they are incompetent because they have no super carriers?

They are about to introduce hypersonic anti ship missiles compatible with all their UKSK equipped vessels but they don't know what they are doing?

Even if they had no navy at all it would make no difference, but they are incompetent... because internet fanbois like yourself and other say so.

But what is the whole claim that the Su-57 loses more energy than an F-22 during high speed turns?

What it is is clutching at straws.

We spent trillions of dollars on stealth fighters but the Su-57 seems to be better than either of them... so it has flaws that you can't easily prove don't exist.