Anti-Putin Discussion

Vann7 wrote:

GarryB wrote:
Putin doesn't want to save the world from the west, he just wants them to stop the west doing what it does... interfering in Russia and with Russias trade partners to limit their growth and prosperity.  Can't have the second and third world living better than the first world... no matter how hard they work for it.

i never said putin need to save the world .most of the world is safe and at peace,
is his nation what he needs to save.  

he just wants them to stop the west doing what it does...

And how he plans to do that ?

by asking politely americans to "please be nice ,don't do that , that breaks our nation"

This is what the west wants , to break Russia in a million of parts , so putin can't remain passive
for 21 years , and not challenge a single popular business in the west. he needs to fight back  with modern business.  


So ..what part you don't understand that..
Russia needs to fight back ???  

Asking politely the west to stop , or hosting olympic events , winning all medals ,will not
convince the west to stop doing what is doing.

Russia need to fight back the west by replacing their top most popular business in the world , with russian business , but not asking politely nations to please don't use dollars , but instead creating an alternative business world ,to completely replace anglo western most important , popular and influential business ,that allows them to influence all the nations of the world.

Needs to pressure the western economy , by creating superior business , without modern business leadership ,their dollar will go down , and economy will fall , and this will pressure them to cooperate with russia if don't want their nation to be erased with a total economic collapse.

ignoring the western hostilities , which was putin is doing ,will not help. and continue developing most of russia economy , as a third world commodities focused economy , will not convince any nation to abandon the dollar , or stop doing business with the west. because russia offers nothing the world ,to replace the anglo western business and their closest puppet asian allies.

Something so simple , why is hard for you to understand ? russia needs to fight back their enemies
by damaging their economy. period.   he also could do it with the military , if he wants , but i doubt he will do that , and neither im proposing military war , but business war .
space exploration war , semiconductor war , high tech industry war , fight fight fight to break their influence over the world ,with their innovative leading and popular business.

and neither russia needs to do it alone , he can make an alliance with china ,india ,all BRICS nations and others to bring down the western business lead over the world. Starting with a new internet ,so that the west can't brainwash russian citizens with their fake news social media.  All russia problems
are 100% cause of the mediocre way Putin developed the russia economy ,and a banana state of gas discounts and food and mining. with some few weapons sold to third world nations.

So where are the Sci-Fi bizniz from the chosen ones?
Why they need a dumbass Putin with no leadership to lead them?
Did facebook need Obama/Bush leadership to lead them? No
Did Google need Obama/Bush leadershipz to tell them what to do? No
Did Apple need Obama/Bush leadershipz to create it for them? No
Did Starwars need Obama/Bush leadership to create it for them? No
Did Hollywood need any President leadershipz to tell them how to make entertainment for Woke Dorks? No


So whats stopping the russian chosen ones from doing shit on their own without a dumbass president with no leaderships to lead them?
They expect leadershipz from a guy with no leadershipz?
Are they Genius dumbasses?

They can create soso Sci-Fi StarWars High Tech Bizniz but they need leadership from a dumbass with no leadership?? Haahahahahahaha

Stop evading the questions.

Tingsay wrote:

Backman wrote:

Tingsay wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

Tingsay wrote:

Turns out you still can't answer how Genius russians can't stop voting for incompetent leaders at the same time still cant create high-tech bizniz. Huge contradiction there  

Will a

Lol So where are the Genius Russians who are able to make High Tech bizniz? Why are they allowing Putin to use populist tactic? They are geniuses! Why cant they outplay the moron president? They can make Star Wars technologiez but they can't beat stupid Putin in employing Populist Tactic? Hahahahahaha

Even if they can't depose Putin, whats stopping them from creating so-so StarWars?

Answer the questions:
Why do these genius people who can make Star Wars Technologiez NEED approval from Putin?
Did Google makers need Bush/Obama to start making Star Wars Tech?
Did Facebook need Bush/Obama to start making High Tech Bizniz?
Did Amazon/Tesla/SpaceX  need Bush/Obama to tell them what to do?
Why do these genius russian chosen ones NEED imbecile Putin?

You're gonna dodge these questions again aren't you.

Seems like these 4D chess master chosen ones are Genius Morons.  
There are no such thing as genius morons, Vann

You pathetic fool. SpaceX and Tesla are both promotional frauds designed to pump stock prices and harvest government tax credits. So yes. Those companies exist because of direction from govt.

Amazon does not make profits. Its also a ponzi scheme that subsidizes an online store. https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2014/9/4/why-amazon-has-no-profits-and-why-it-works

All of these big companies in the US are not the result of business acumen. The US fluked its way into getting the "reserve" currency after WW2. Except it didn't just get that. Reserve currency only meant that your ccy was linked to gold. It did not mean that your debt replaced gold. But by some fluke, US debt replaced gold.

So USD's from suckers like China and Japan, get exported from the US, and then lent back to the US. Wall St. Silcon valley and K street, get to waste these dollars into the air and call it a business. This is why the US has all of these fake ponzi companies that make no sense.

Lol I am very aware of  Elon Musk being a fake inventor conman who literally stole paypal, tesla and took all the credit to feed his ego. Vann was sucking Elon's dick a few years ago , now he has shut up about him. I think even he has realized the Muskrat is a fraud.
I was simply making the point to Vann7 that civilian business is mostly up to civilians and not up to the President. If you credit all failures to a President you should also do the same to all success. You'd still be wrong either way. Presidents and what vann calls as "Leadership" are all overrated, they are just general spokespersons.

Oh and facebook and Amazon are legitimate businesses. They just got so big and powerful dragging the already rich and powerful major stakeholders and investors  with them to even higher wealth that they lobby for government to keep them afloat. That is a problem with any company that gets too much power and influence. It's an expected outcome in a hyper-capitalist society. Russia experiences this too but in a smaller scale. This does not change the fact that they started out as respectable business ideas and did not need government assistance to jumpstart.

Sorry i misinterpreted your post as a Van7 post

Super interesting report , by Pepe Escobar about US policies vs Russia and China ,from insiders
of the american deep state , that is a basically copy/paste of what i have been painfully saying in this economic forum , in hopes to educate the "economic experts" of this forum , about why is
completely wrong Putin development strategy of Russia , of economic growth without development , without modernization of the nation economy.  

You cannot develop a nation , that is at war , in the same way that a nation that is at peace.
All those economic books , or economic reports people post here ,don't take into account Russia
is facing war , a real war , but that is done by proxy , a hot war by proxy and done very very slow.

is totally different , how you develop a nation security and its economy , depending if the nation is at war or at peace.. when a nation is at peace , you can be lazy as hell and become a saudi arabia or venezuela or Russia.  when venezuela was not facing war from US ,they were making a ton of money in oil sales, when russia was not facing a trade war from US , putin was called a hero ,but the economic massive growth of russia economy. But in 2014 everything changed ,the perfect storm happened ,that US started a semi full scale war against Russia economy , and they called it the arab spring and ukraine war.  

The goals of the west , is to break Russia in a millions of pieces ,to finish the job
they started with the collapse of the soviet union ,that they did it. and now to break china too.
and their tactics are the same .. this is what the west is doing to break russia.

1) target oil prices , to weaken putin's gas station heavily dependend on oil prices.
  this is done with the massive pumping on oil in the market . exactly what they did with
saudi arabia. why anyone think US wanted to allow iran sell oil ? to weaken oil prices and damage
russia e conomy  that's why.
 
2) target natural gas prices too ,same , over saturate the market with natural gas , they selling directly liquid gas to europe , even if US lose money or win nothing selling at cost , it is still a win for them ,because is money russia will not make. . This is why america have been fracking oil , they sale
energy at a lost ,but it damage russia economy by bringing oil prices down.
3) drain the russia economy by destabilizing russia with civil protest.. for whatever reason.
  nalvany or creating religious conflicts between muslim and christians as chechen war was.
4) drain the russia economy by destabilizing russian borders or countries that trade with russia.
- welcome to the arab spring.  all client states of russia were the ones hit, algeria ,lybia ,iraq ,iran ,
syria and now venezuela too.  So the arab spring ,syria and ukraine are examples of this , conflicts
the anglowest creates to cause russia to interfere and waste a ton of money in sending military ,drain the russian budget , by provoking many conflicts for russia to interfere in the world.
-syria --check
- ukraine -- check
- armenia nagorno -- check
- destabilizing belarus ,for russia to finance them - check
-venezuela ? check.. same thing
5)finally accusing russia of every bad thing in the world ,and sanctioning all their business.



next conflicts they will provoke ,to pressure even more russia?
-they could try to provoke a full scale invasion in ukraine from russia
-full scale invasion of venezuela to force russia interfere and come in their defense.
- moldova -transnistria ,they will provoke a war there , that russia will ahve to interfere.
- moldova vs serbia war they are provoking.

the question should be ..
Why the west can continue attacking Russia with so much impunity without any consequences?
Because Russia have absolutely no business power , to force the west pay for their hostilities , because putin have been ignoring for 20 years ,to challenge the western top business ,that more helps their economy , because russia have near zero influence over the west. putin complains every week of why the west is so unfair with russia , but he never do anything to change things for the better for russia.  

The next article shows ,the west see china (and not russia) as a real danger for the american empire.

Insider view: the tragedy of the US Deep State
by pepe escobar  

The Deep State wanted to achieve a number of objectives in approaching Chairman Mao, who was antagonized by Russia. It wanted to ally in 1972 with China against Russia. That made Vietnam meaningless, for China would become the containing party of Russia and Vietnam no longer meant anything. We wanted to balance China against Russia. [b] Now, China was not a major power in 1972 but it could drain Russia, forcing it to place 400,000 troops on their border.  And our Deep State policy worked. We in the Deep State had thought it through, and not Kissinger. 400,000 troops on the Chinese border was a drain on their budget, as later Afghanistan became with over 100,000 troops, and the Warsaw Pact had another 600,000 troops. wrote:

https://thesaker.is/insider-view-the-tragedy-of-the-us-deep-state/

Putin's first 20 years in power of the economic development of Russia is totally wrong , he did not challenge the american system ,their business and their influence, at best the only thing Putin did was resist , the take over of the west and nothing else. This is weakness and this encourage the west to increase the hostilities against Russia , with total impunity ,full knowing that there will be no negative consequences for them ,for breaking russia economy.  China in the other hand is a different beast , they damaged apple phone sales , they damage US communications 5G business sales , and they will soon damage US semiconductor and software and entertainment industry and internet , on top of that china is challenging US domination in space explorations.     so how can anyone defend putin ,when he is so weak and allow any nation to damage russia economy without any consequences for them , allow the killing of russian soldiers without any consequences either.     he is bad president with a totally outdated economy for russia. he needs to follow the example of china with their business and fight the western business too as china is doing. too increase the pressure on the wester economy by directly compete with the west most influential business in high tech and space.

United democratic Europe???

You made me laugh real hard with that

kvs wrote:The commenters ragging on Russia for not engaging in a new space race are just upset because they are not getting free entertainment.
They could care less about Russia or its interests.   Their drivel is systematically debunked but they keep on repeating it.   It is like arguing
with climate change deniers, who always revert to the same BS (for example, that some local temperature around their house "proves" that
the global temperature is not conforming to their ignorant expectations of warming).  

The creation of a new manufacturing plant for the Angara rockets is already an achievement since it is the most developed in terms of
mass production and economies of scale rocket assembly line on the planet.    Space X has nothing like it in spite of being the private
sector magical outfit that supposedly does everything better.    We will have to wait and see what the costs are for the Angara launches
in the coming years.   I suspect that they will give all this reusable delusion a good thrashing.    

And for planetary exploration, enough with the 1960s redux already.   Russia should finish the Nuklon and invest in new variants instead
of wasting money on inertial guidance tin can missions.    If it "loses the race" by 15 years, it will still come out ahead.   All the hater
yaps can keep on yapping because Russia is not doing what they want.    Who cares what you want.

Putin is NOT engaging Russia enemies neither in space ,  neither in earth and this is a big problem . They offer absolutely no competition to the western Influence of the world with their very popular business with the world , in any way ,shape or form ,other than weapons , but that are totally worthless investment if Russian weapons are not used to defend your military or deter nations from killing your soldiers. as they are constantly doing.
opps there go another helicopter shutdown in putin's face , and an "apology" is all putin need for russia to look to the side and to punish the aggressors  


Your hero president needs to stop complaining , about the western system if he does nothing to create his own.  because it looks very bad his crying all the time , waaa waaa waaa US sanctions Russia ,and nations follows them. waa waaa waaa.  It is his fault and only his fault , he have been 20 years , doing nothing to counter that system he hates , not challenging the wester economy , not targeting their business ,other than politely asking nations to pleeassse  stop using dollars..
not even china listens Russia and follows his polite petitions.  China will continue using dollars ,because they want to do business with the world leader in business , as long  the west accept to do business with them.

And there will be no Russia to save with that idiot in power in 15 years  , in the way people know it today . Russia future will be similar to that  of ukraine , an outdated nation ,just like Russia is , and destroyed from the inside by their young rising generations , that are fully influenced by  the western culture and western business . Timing is everything and if you think Russia cannot be destroyed from the inside again ,like the west did it already 2 times ,and is now doing again , with exodus of its population , then you are simply blinded by your support for that incompent.  Putin is only one step away of becoming the next Gorvachev , that traded nukes and territory for "peace with the west"  

This is how easy Russia can be destroyed with the stroke of a pen ,by a president ,that surrenders to the west , and prefer submission than to fight back their enemies.   Already Putin have shown signals of being a coward , as he have done in syria ,when their officers planes was destroyed intentionally by israel and he did it again in the Armenia war , that allowed again their pilots to be murdered without any consequence for the aggressors.   If this is the kind of "leaders" you support , then is because your standards for what a good leader is are very low.

GARRYB:
Except for pride there is no benefit to going to Mars alone except having to foot the enormous bill on your own.

But when putin waste 100 billions dollars from 2010 to 2018 in hosting 2 stupid sports events ,that is the biggest epenis pride contest any nation can do ,then you and others have no problems at all with throwing so much money into so symbolical and meaningless events for nations cosmetic modernization only ,and artificial development ,but still remaining as outdated country.

With that amount of money , Russia could have invested them in a much better pride contest ,
one that require actual brains ,real intelligence as it will be space race of a high tech race ,to challenge the western business and dedolarize the world (for real ) and not have to beg politely nations to stop following them.  

lol wtf am I reading.   

kvs wrote:

Backman wrote:I was just posting old articles as a retort to Van7's big declarations that there has been broad economic policy failures throughout the Putin admin. It's just not true.

Vann is a troll.  The definition of troll is ignoring any evidence that goes against the trolling agenda.

This moron and similar are not convincing Russians that their daily life experience is one big lie and that they are worse off today than in 1999.
But this is exactly what Nahalny, Vann and other trash are trying to do.

haha.. "ignoring "  what?   im fully aware of all the crap ,that you claim , that "Russia is not a gas
station " but the minister of finance of Russia totally disagree with you.  so sorry about that . but
you are wrong on this.

what else im "ignoring" ?

That he is patriotic ? so what ?
with patriotism alone you can't save Russia.. all that patriotism will go wasted if he is very stupid ,
when it comes development of Russia.  

Putin only abilities , that he have is in delaying things , delaying problems ,that he helps to create .
putin is a diplomat , not a leader , that is forced to micro manage everything ,consequence of how bad , how terrible is his leadership abilities.

In Business , if a company CEO one day discover most of his employees are bad and lazy and don't do their job right and corrupt. then who is to blame for this? if he was the one who recruited them?
and he was the one responsible for evaluating and monitoring their performance ?

so lets teach  you some lessons about how capitalism business works.

IF a company manager needs to micro manage everything in his company , even do the job of a secretary ,or the job of a janitor one day , because was poorly done ,or visit the finances department so that someone is paid correctly , then he is a terrible manager , because a manager job is not to micromanage everything (As putin is doing in russia all the time)  . One of the most important duties of a company manager , like a CEO , is to identify the right people to work for his company and put them in the right places , and encourage and motivate them ,to do their job right.  this is what leaders are supposed to do , and this is what Putin have never done and you know why putin needs to micromanage everything.. (like personally interfering so that a nurse ,somewhere in russia gets paid ,  the time she worked ?  )  .  Putin needs to micromanage everything because...


HE don't  understand what leadership is , he is completely ignorant , completely dumb ,of what his most important duties are as president of Russia.

a Leader most important job and the only ones that really matters are  ..

1) to guide a company or a nation or an organization into the best possible future . To have a clear understanding what he is doing ,and not improvising ,to have major big ambitions. and lead the way how to get there , into that better future.

2) the other most important feature of a leader , is to motivate his people , to inspire their company employees or his country citizens , to become better everyday . the best good leaders are those that lead revolutions , that completely transform society ,for the better and drive the nation into a more successful and stronger position and a safer place.

Putin is terrible ,because he is not doing nothing at all , of what he is supposed to do .
1)putin is demoralizing russians citizens, with his weakness and cowardice and allowing his soldiers
to be murdered by hostile nations and do nothing about it.  he also demoralize his people by praising
his enemies as "the most superior nation of all " the only superpower.      as putin told of america .     and to make things worse ,to beg the west to be their friends.  

2)putin by showing weakness and insecurity ,and politeness bullshit ,as he is doing , he is encouraging more hostilities and bigger hostilities against his nations ,because they know putin
is weak and will do nothing . and will rather see their soldiers and even ambassadors murdered ,
and politicians families kidnapped , that to lift his finger against those who kill their soldiers and diplomats.

So weak and mediocre is putin ,that the pentagon was not afraid to launch cruise missiles into syria
right on the bases russian soldiers were protecting from syria , as trump did with homs first strike , that gave 30 minutes the russians soldiers to leave ,for them to evacuate .  

So im fully aware , of the "good things" the teddy bear super polite president have done , and you are the one that totally choose to ignore ,that i have told many times ,  that the problems of russia can't be solved with mathematics , with statistics ,with numbers. The west will naturally will not warn russia of the mistakes putin is making.  remember you never interrupt your enemies ,when they are doing a mistake.  so the west will not warn putin of his mistakes , which is what im doing here.


you choose to ignore that.

is a catastrophic mistake ,to ignore the west , and their overwhelming influence of their advanced business in the lives of all citizens of this world. because as long the west dominate and lead the world in advanced business that the entire world love and enjoy and can't live without them,
then as long their influence will continue dominating in the world and their dollar or any other new currency they choose to create will continue being supported.  

So putin 21 years in power as president and another more year as prime minister of yeltsin ,have been a near total waste of time , because in those 2 decades he have been in power , he have done
absolutely NOTHING to stop the west , to counter the west , to end the western domination of the world ,to end nato ,etc etc etc. nothing.. absolutely  nothing.

so is a total waste of time his stupid presidency ,  a total stagnation of the nation true development and true economic progress and true indenpendence.

so yeah.. 1% more , 1% less.. or 2.3% grow here or there..

IRRELEVANT.

IF a patient is dying of cancer , and doctors tells him/her  ,he/she have 6months to 2 years of life?  
does it matters if they win more money  business produce more potatoes and you generate more income?  NO.   Non single income from gazprom will help russia ,end their problems with the west.
no single profit from russia military industry or food industry will help russia end their problems with the west.. the only thing that could truly help russia , end their problems with the west , is when they
modernize their economy and compete and replace western business with theirs , this will damage their economy , and will make their enemies lose influence in the world too.. which will pressure them to either isolate themselves from the world , because most nations will jump ship ,as soon america leadership in business ends , and they will have no other choice ,that to end their hostilities with russia ,and make a fair deal to russia for restoring relations , that respect their interest , to save their economy  from collapsing.


What @KVS and @GArryb  choose to ignore , is that money alone can't solve all life problems .
And Putin have a very big ugly problem with the west , that is seeking to destroy their nation and increasing a little bit here or there the GDP of Russia economy  will not fix russia problems with the west . if any will encourage them to try more hostile things against russia . The only thing that have a big chance , if every russia do it , to fix their problems with the west. is called leadership.
To surpass the western lead of their most important business , this will automatically cause the collapse of their system, because their business all of them and their entire economy will lose a lot of money and this will force them to negotiate as equals with russia , for saving their economy.

this is the only way russia can be saved from going the soviet union way . is with success and leadership how it can be done. and only pure ignorance , will make anyone believe that russia will be better and more safe by selling more potatoes or more gas to europe.

in more economic news..

when Putin is bragging about hypersonic missiles and gas stations , china is showing the world
the way for the future . from conquering planets with their ambitious space exploration program,
to leading the world in forestation of the planet. While putin is dragging his feet into the development of russia, with the most lazy business possible , china is literary making headlines world wide for changing the planet and for the better.

China's Unbelievable Desert Farming That Shocked The World





here Germany will now join the semiconductor race too and produce state of the art technology
and manufacture it on germany territory.. Germany wants complete independence from US and its asian puppets colonies in high tech electronics.  

Germany needs to make its own electronic chips, says Merkel


oh no putin can't compete with the west.. because bla bla bla..  
But germany with half of the population of russia ,and without the superior scientist of russia ,says they can.  So lets not make excuses for the master of idiots russian president , every major developed nation in the world , every major leader, but putin , understand how importantt is to have high tech electronics independence from US . Putin is a very bad president , and horrible president for the true development of the nation , it is very bad. because he develops russia in a totally retarded way ,as if it was a venezuela with nukes. instead of following the example of china ,germany , japan and south korea that can produce their own high tech chips.

The whole truth about the poisoning of Navalny
https://youtu.be/pOhmDeih19g

Maybe...just maybe I'll watch this a bit later on, but if they suggest that this man was poisoned by the Novichok nerve agent then the truth just left the building!

Thanks!

The problem is that Russia is governed by a regime that is willing to kill (& often succeeds in that) its political opponents, real & imagined, to stay in power.
What do Putin's bandit regime and the Taliban terrorist movement have in common? Why did the Kremlin take a course towards archaism? We are discussing with the publicist Igor Yakovenko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_-B0NlzYm8

Tsavo Lion wrote:The problem is that Russia is governed by a regime that is willing to  kill (& often succeeds in that) its political opponents, real & imagined, to stay in power.
What do Putin's bandit regime and the Taliban terrorist movement have in common? Why did the Kremlin take a course towards archaism? We are discussing with the publicist Igor Yakovenko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_-B0NlzYm8

The problem is that the USA is governed by a deep state regime that is willing to kill (& often succeeds in that) its political opponents, real & imagined, to stay in power.

Hole wrote:Lets pretend for a second all of this would be true. They guy is a russian citizen. He was on russian soil.

"Jumping" from a 10 story building and condolences to the family would suffice

Mir wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:The problem is that Russia is governed by a regime that is willing to  kill (& often succeeds in that) its political opponents, real & imagined, to stay in power.

The problem is that the USA is governed by a deep state regime that is willing to  kill (& often succeeds in that) its political opponents, real & imagined, to stay in power.

that still doesn't mean that Russians must do nothing about their own
parasitic regime. L. Americans, Spaniards, Portuguese, Albanians, Romanians, Philippinos, S. Koreans, & S. Africans all fired their dictators- Russia may be next in line.

Tsavo Lion wrote:
that still doesn't mean that Russians must do nothing about their own
parasitic regime. L. Americans, Spaniards, Portuguese, Albanians, Romanians, Philippinos, S. Koreans, & S. Africans all fired their dictators- Russia may be next in line.

I can understand it if the guy was a pig but why would Russians want to get rid of probably the most popular leader in their history? Maybe you and the rest of the CIA thinks this guy is a parasite, but the Russians don't seem to thinks so. I think Biden is a retard but you apparently chose him as your leader. I have no problem if you want a retard as a leader - it's your choice. I know you've been schooled in Regime Change but how about let the Russians and other countries choose their own leaders.

I'm not with the CIA & never was; I didn't want racist, bigot & demagogic fork-tongued power freaking Trump & Pompeo, so voting for Biden was the lesser of the 2 evils; I doubt Putin is as popular as he's lauded to be; I hope the Russians will soon chose their next leader, & I never advocated a foreign imposed regime change.

Tsavo Lion wrote:I'm not with the CIA & never was; I didn't want racist, bigot & demagogic fork-tongued power freaking Trump & Pompeo, so voting for Biden was the lesser of the 2 evils; I doubt Putin is as popular as he's lauded to be; I hope the Russians will soon chose their next leader, & I never advocated a foreign imposed regime change.

Hehehe I must tell you I'm not a Trump fan at all but if I had to choose I would have chosen Trump because you will be stuck with Harris soon which is going to be very messy.

she'll still be better than evangelical Pence.