Sukhoi LTS "Checkmate" #2

I love it when a western country announces the gun to their heads has made them select the F-35 for protecting their country because the crippling operational costs will render them less dangerous to Russia rather than more so.

No question that one of Americas real strengths is to sell total bullshit so I am looking forward to the US MIC telling us how the new model F-15 and new model F-16 are actually 6th generation super stealth fighters that are so much better than anything China or Russia could possibly make.

We will be hearing about all sorts of new systems that just make them better... In fact the definition of a 7th gen fighter is a 4th gen fighter with the pilot removed and flown by remote control for 6th gen fighter prices...

Wow, they are just so far ahead of everyone it is scary.

So essentially it has 9 missile pylons or weapon locations... same as the MiG-35... probably not a coincidence...

February 7, 05:05

Russia plans to invite India to cooperate on the Checkmate project
The delegations will discuss this issue during the Aero India 2023 international air show, the source said.

MOSCOW, 7 February. /TASS/. During the Aero India 2023 international air show, the Russian delegation plans to discuss the possibility of cooperation with India in the creation of fifth-generation aircraft, in particular, the Checkmate light tactical fighter. This was reported to TASS by a source close to the Rostec state corporation.

"A delegation of representatives of our aircraft manufacturing companies is coming to Aero India. We plan to discuss cooperation on fifth-generation aircraft. In particular, we intend to invite Indian friends to join the Checkmate light tactical fighter project," the agency's source said.

Aero India 2023 International Aerospace Exhibition will be held in Bangalore from 13 to 17 February. The Indian Air Show is held every two years. Russia is an active participant in the exhibition; in 2021, over 200 samples of Russian military products were presented at it.

About the aircraft

The Checkmate light tactical aircraft developed by Sukhoi (part of the United Aircraft Corporation) was first presented at the MAKS-2021 air show. The foreign presentation of the fighter took place at the Dubai Airshow 2021 in the UAE. It is expected that the pilot batch of fighters will be produced in 2026.

Checkmate includes all the most advanced developments, including an open architecture for building in the interests of the customer and unique artificial intelligence technologies. The aircraft is made using stealth technologies, equipped with an intra-fuselage compartment for air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons.

The payload weight exceeds 7 tons. The fighter will be able to simultaneously hit up to six targets. The speed of a single-engine aircraft will be Mach 1.8, and the combat radius will be 3,000 km.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16979563

Russia plans to invite India to cooperate on the Checkmate project

If things go the same way they did with India and the FGFA, I won't hold my breath.

It ended up splendid with FGFA.

Indians didn't get them, to yap & whin how half of the stuff they bought at the garage sell didn't work as planned when controlled by the soft they made. And how much it is Russkie's fault.

And Su-57 is in serial production.

A win:win situation, when Russkie are on both sides of the field

Russia plans to invite India to cooperate on the Checkmate project
The delegations will discuss this issue during the Aero India 2023 international air show, the source said.

The western defense media losers are going to latch onto this. See ! This is all just vaporware like we said. They need money from foreign partners to develop it bruh.

Except no. The jet is being developed already and unlike the Tempest or Fcas, has already taken shape. Russia is just trying to talk some sense into India. Because this is the jet they need. Just like the su 57 was in 2007. But sense didn't prevail, and its 2023 and India has no 5th gen aircraft while China has 2.

India has a programme for an indigenous Medium Combat Aircraft, leveraging stuff developed for the LCA.
Just making this point.
The LCA was not a particularly smoothly run programme, so they are attempting to maximise development costs already spent on that program.

I wouldn't hold my breath.
Indian defence programmes are extremely convoluted.

I would call it inconsistent.

well, the price tag can't be beaten while this offers them open architecture with avionics if they like. They didnt mind spending a lot of money on Rafales so maybe something more feasible with costs can help them. Cost wise this option is more possible than offering the Su-57 which I don't think we even know its price tag to this day.

Rafale was only bought to "balance" Indias position between the "blocks". In other words: they bribed the French to get some 
leverage over EU decisions.

Most of the contracts the "west" used to sign was some kind of bribe.

A unit price of a single M1 tank in Polish purchase is ridiculous from any perspective.

It is a bribe given in the open light of jupiters.

If one knows the Polish politics of the era - there was a struggle with overwhelming the highest court by the ruling party.
Muricans had a lot to say about the matter, but suddenly .. they get quiet...

Accidentally, of course!

There were corrupt officials in the Indian air force who were insistent on French jets and nobody even knew why. This is what killed the FGFA deal. India was right to cancel the 100+ order for Rafales. They got it down to 36. They should just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. They can still build either su 57's or su 75's at the HAL plant and it would be compatible with their tankers and everything.

https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/rafale-row-india-cheated-to-tune-of-rs-21-000-crore-alleges-congress-121040900824_1.html

The remarks came after a French news portal mediapart.fr in a three series investigation claimed that it was in possession of documents that showed Dassault Aviation, which manufactures the Rafale jet, and its industrial partner Thales, a defence electronics firm, paid a "middleman" several million euros in "secret commissions" in connection with the Rs 59,000 crore deal for 36 jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

They didnt mind spending a lot of money on Rafales

This isn't the half of it. It is a mess. They got hosed.

https://eurasiantimes.com/at-e7-8b-why-indian-rafale-jets-are-double-the-cost-than-did-egyptian-rafales/

There has been relentless criticism on social media about India procuring the aircraft at very high rates at €216 million per aircraft, while under the latest deal Egypt got it only for €125 million per aircraft (€3.75 for 30 aircraft).

And India's Russian tanker fleet isn't compatible with the Rafale jets. They cant seem to buy tankers so they are trying to lease them or something.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/rafale-ferry-puts-iaf-tanker-woes-back-in-focus-lease-next/

I dont know if Russia is dumb or something, why bother with India? Its quite evident India will not want the SU75. The SU57 is a more capable jet and India refused to have a SU57MKI made for them. What more a Russian F35 that is likely just a flying stealthy missile boat. India doesn't even want the Super Flanker (Su30SM2 with AL41F1s and the SU57s AESA radar). India is westernized at this point. If I were Russia I would omit India from my list of clients and look towards my tried and tested customers like Vietnam and Algeria who's armies are 100% supplied by Russia and countries aligned with Russia. India was a Russian partner back in the 80s when they had no friends in the West. Not now. India has forgotten that the West still supports their enemy from across the border. That time of India buying Russian weapons in bulk is over. Starting with the fact that India's local stealth fighter will use a redesigned F404 that India has no experience with (ancient 1960s US technology) whereas Russia offered India the far more modern NPO Saturn AL31 that India has mastered and manufactures locally even selling it abroad under HAL without any complaints or lawsuits by Russia. Try selling licensed American tech without American approval. You will be banned from ever buying anything American and have existing support for your US hardware cancelled.

Russia needs to honestly work from a one-man approach like China. China isn't pitching the J20 and J35 to anybody. Those who want to buy them will approach China and China will approve the sale if necessary. Until then China is building them for China and other interested countries. Don't invite nobody for nothing because America will just threaten your customer into not buying your stuff. Indonesia was enroute to buying Su35s until America threatened them and offered F15s instead. Same goes for Egypt. India was also under consideration for sanctions. So If I was Russia I would work silently on propping up my defense sector and supplying my true customers. This thing of pitching your stuff to countries like India doesnt work. Russia can just remain a strategic ally of India but otherwise shouldn't bother with India buying their arms.
Russia is wasting her time with India. India is now with the West. They are having a F21 made for them as we speak that is infact a rebodied F16. They will never buy Russian jets. Simple as that.

February 9, 09:13,
updated February 9, 10:01 am

Russia to show Su-57E and Checkmate aircraft at Aero India
Visitors to the exhibition will also be able to see the Il-76MD-90A(E) military transport aircraft, the Il-78MK-90A tanker aircraft, the Su-35 and Su-30SME super-maneuverable fighters, and the MiG-35D multifunctional front-line fighter.


MOSCOW, 9 February. /TASS/. Russia will show the fifth-generation Su-57E fighter and the Checkmate light tactical aircraft at the Aero India 2023 international air show in Bangalore, the Rosoboronexport press service told reporters on Thursday.

Rosoboronexport presents in India about 200 samples of the most promising weapons and military equipment of Russian production, including the promising fifth-generation Su-57E multifunctional fighter, the Checkmate light tactical aircraft," the company said.

Also, visitors to the exhibition will be able to see the Il-76MD-90A(E) military transport aircraft, the Il-78MK-90A tanker aircraft, the Su-35 and Su-30SME super-maneuverable fighters, and the MiG-35D multifunctional front-line fighter.

In addition, Rosoboronexport noted that the Ka-226T light multi-purpose helicopter, the production of which is proposed to be opened on the basis of the Russian-Indian joint venture Indo-Russian Helicopters Limited as part of the Make in India program, will be demonstrated at the exhibition.

At Aero India 2023, Russia will also demonstrate the upgraded versions of the Ka-52E, Mi-28NE combat helicopters and the Mi-171Sh military transport helicopter, which are most in demand on the world market and in the Asia-Pacific region today.

The 14th International Aerospace Exhibition Aero India will be held in the Indian city of Bangalore from 13 to 17 February. The air show is held every two years. Russia is an active participant in the exhibition; in 2021, over 200 samples of Russian military products were presented at it.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/17004635

I dont know if Russia is dumb or something, why bother with India?

I get what you mean but Russia's arms mfg and exports is one of Russia's core strengths in a way that it just isn't for China.

I dont know if Russia is dumb or something, why bother with India? Its quite evident India will not want the SU75. The SU57 is a more capable jet and India refused to have a SU57MKI made for them.

Russia sells aircraft. India does not want to pay for the development of the Su-57 but will likely licence produce them and demand and therefore also pay for the changes they want the way they did with the Su-30s they bought to produce the Su-30MKI.

We have no idea whether India will be interested in the Su-75 or whatever it will be called, but even if they end up paying double what they claim it would still be a bargain for them... local production might triple the price but even then it would be the most affordable 5th gen fighter available to them.

And if they say no they say no.

If I were Russia I would omit India from my list of clients and look towards my tried and tested customers like Vietnam and Algeria who's armies are 100% supplied by Russia and countries aligned with Russia.

The US would love Russia to push India away and to tear up BRICS, 70% of Indian weapons are of Soviet origin...

Russia needs to honestly work from a one-man approach like China.

The Su-75 was intended from the outset to be an export aircraft, they will offer it to anyone and likely for large buyers even include local licence production... though that will push up the price, it gives peace of mind to those who want it.

Russia is wasting her time with India. India is now with the West. They are having a F21 made for them as we speak that is infact a rebodied F16. They will never buy Russian jets. Simple as that.

And then in a few years time the US will demand India stops buying S-400s and threatens to cut F21 sales to India if they don't do as they are told...

You can pull at strings but if you pull to hard they break...

Showing the aircraft in India lets countries all round the world see the aircraft again... if the numbers are right this plane should sell itself.

If India was smart it would cancel some of their stealth fighter programmes like the medium one and just buy this aircraft to replace light and medium fighters because it would be cheap enough to use as a standard fighter, and for the heavy fighter probably buy off the shelf Su-57s for half the price they paid for Rafales...

Russia could just remove India from her list of prospective customers. Not sever relations with India. What I mean is Russia should carry out these projects without looking at India as a prospective buyer. If India wants to buy whatever Russia is building, then India will tell Russia and put down a deposit. India is like a deer. Very unstable and easily spooked. They may put down an order for 100 SU57s and suddenly change at the last minute when the US offers them F15EXs for double the money.

Algeria will never do this. Nor will Vietnam. Nor will Iran, Angola or Myanmar. These are the countries Russia should prioritize.

Their mig-29k are slightly older than russian mig-29k. They also don't know how to maintain them.

Their weapons also suck. Export R-77 is really shitty and they don't have rvv-sd or r-37M. They need to face chinese carrier groups. A rafale with meteor is way better than their mig-28K with r-77.

But frankly I suspect Rafale or f-18 to be way worse in terms of maintenance which will make their carriers useless.

The problem is Russia is asking India to be a pan handler again but for a different 5th gen program and our nationalistic Indians in india defense net forum will not be too happy that they fear this will kill their AMCA project. I hate it that 5th gen programs start with immediately asking for other countries to go fund it. Don't start any military aircraft project if your country is not willing to go finance it. I am sure we would score contract deals selling Su-75s to India but asking them to go throw billions is just you know already asking for too much.

"However it would not make much sense to say that they want to protect their own industry and then instead buy Rafal, F-16 or F-18."

Yea, it makes no sense to invest in western aircraft if you want to improve you own industry.

It makes more sense to invest in ToT and license production of aircraft like the Su-57/75.
That way you would have a good base to start out with and go from there.
Then incorporating indigenous built equivalents into the AMCA and whatnot.

The FGFA program failed for a series of factors and unfortunate events but basically because initial requirements were too distant and when the russian side added Indian requirements to their own ones the project was already at a too advanced state to allow for a joint development program.
Maybe it's better so: Russians get something even better of what they settled for initially and would get more money from India nowto allow hem to buy or to producethem on licence.