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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #37

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    Post  Begome Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:52 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Milanović is a center left populist and holds a position of president, that is equivalent to same position in Germany. Ceremonial only and no real power. When he was a prime minister, he was in boat with both NATO integration and sanctions on Russia.
    Not exactly...the President of Croatia is still the commander-in-chief of the military, while the German president is a pure figure-head with practically no power whatsoever. Theoretically the German president does have the power to veto cabinet members when they are chosen (this is his constitutional right), but ever since Theodor Heuss tried to exercise that right when Nazi-collaborator Adenauer was chancellor and was unconstitutionally refused by Adenauer without consequences, no German president afterward tried to repeat that. The German president also technically can stop legislation from coming into force by vetoing it based on an assessment of unconstitutionality, but even that is barely used at all, because German presidents have been, for the most part, spineless cowards; they are chosen by a congregation of clowns that include celebrities and other idiots. The German military, meanwhile, is headed by the defense minister in peace time and the chancellor in wartime.

    That said, I agree that Milanovic's statements are mostly just populism and have little substance, but they're not as meaningless as a German president's deliberations.

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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:02 pm

    If you know anything about his political work, you'll know that he barks when in opposition and toes the line when in office. This is, generally, what he did while he was a prime minister. Position of the president just give him a better platform to prepare for next elections.

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    Post  Begome Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:21 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:If you know anything about his political work, you'll know that he barks when in opposition and toes the line when in office.
    You mean he behaves as a politician? Yeah, I got that, given that he's a politician. My point was that he is not as irrelevant as the German president and so it matters more what he says...after all, he wouldn't be saying it if there weren't a significant number of people liking such statements in Croatia, and since he's not completely unimportant, people there actually listen to him and so he does have to think about what he says. It's unlikely that Croatia will turn more to the East in the future but it's at least nice to know there's some potential there and their population is not completely insane.

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    Post  Begome Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:26 pm

    From Tsargrad TV (t.me/tsargradtv):

    Hundreds of volunteers joined the ranks of the "Moscow" battalion.

    Professional athletes and fans of the flagship domestic football clubs are ready to go to defend their homeland from the Nazis.

    Among the fighters there are many volunteers from the "Double-headed Eagle" Society. The unit performs under the motto "We are Russians! God is with us!".

    The battalion was created under the auspices of the airborne troops. There are in the unit and officers with an impressive track record, and technical specialists with knowledge of several foreign languages. The training of fighters is carried out to perform the tasks of special forces and reconnaissance.

    The project coordinator with the call sign "Chur" says: "This unit is unique in that exactly the same unit was assembled only at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War from soldiers-athletes of the capital's football and sports societies. And now the Airborne Forces have again gone on a similar experiment. And even how we have been training with them for the last two months, it shows that the guys are highly motivated, highly prepared to perform special tasks."

    The preparation of the elite battalion continues, but in the near future the fighters will go to combat positions.

    Today in Naro-Fominsk there was a "rite of passage" of contract volunteers.

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    Post  ludovicense Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:38 pm

    Sprinter'
    @Sprinter00000
    US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is putting together a "Peace offer" to end the war in Ukraine.

    The peace offer has multiple points of interest:

    1) US would recognize Russian control over Crimea, Donbass, Zaporozhye, and Kherson –
    the land bridge that connects Crimea and Russia” – as a fait accompli.

    2) In turn Russia would be asked to stall off it's Spring Offensive.
    3) Ukraine would have a demilitarized status, and the deployment of HIMARS missiles and Leopard and Abrams tanks would be confined to western Ukraine, kept as a “deterrent against further Russian attacks.”

    ................................................

    If this is true, it is a sign that the West is reaching the limit. They have probably already assessed that this will not be strong against a massive attack that is taking shape from Belarus. They are afraid of losing all of Ukraine.
    However, Russia is unlikely to accept these terms. No pro-Western government can govern Ukraine if it continues to exist as a state.

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    Post  billybatts91 Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:36 pm

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    Post  billybatts91 Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:52 pm

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    Post  diabetus Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:32 pm

    Russia needs Odessa though.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:16 pm

    Sprinter'
    @Sprinter00000
    US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is putting together a "Peace offer" to end the war in Ukraine.

    The peace offer has multiple points of interest:

    1) US would recognize Russian control over Crimea, Donbass, Zaporozhye, and Kherson –
    the land bridge that connects Crimea and Russia” – as a fait accompli.

    2) In turn Russia would be asked to stall off it's Spring Offensive.
    3) Ukraine would have a demilitarized status, and the deployment of HIMARS missiles and Leopard and Abrams tanks would be confined to western Ukraine, kept as a “deterrent against further Russian attacks.”

    ................................................

    If this is true, it is a sign that the West is reaching the limit. They have probably already assessed that this will not be strong against a massive attack that is taking shape from Belarus. They are afraid of losing all of Ukraine.
    However, Russia is unlikely to accept these terms. No pro-Western government can govern Ukraine if it continues to exist as a state

    "Recognize Russian control" over blablabla as a 'fait accompli'?

    What does this mean, exactly?
    It's not a territorial recognition of Russia's new borders. It's not a Ukrainian recognition of it either. So on what basis can there be a 'peace offer'?
    Answer is - there can't be a peace agreement on this basis; at most a frozen conflict. I suspect what Russia needs is an actual peace offer'/agreement not essentially a better Minsk agreement.

    Demilitarization sounds good.. chuck in denazification as well and that's basically Russian goals already; even with some tanks and HIMARS in Western Ukraine present (ready to be manned by NATO troops, but without any such troops allowed there). But it requires trust and guarantees. There is no trust whatsoever, and no specification in this offer of how such guarantees will be formed.

    Finally, nothing about denying the Ukraine NATO membership here. Implying such is not good enough, it has to be written down as such.

    On the whole - a step in the right direction, if true.
    I don't believe the situation now inexorably necessitates the conquest of the whole of the Ukraine. Only if the West continues to threaten Russia through it.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:09 pm

    They are delaying for time- those fucks never will stick to an agreement

    What is good, is that no leader can believe or agree to this nonsense , the leadership was embarrassed enough

    Now it's time to put an end to this, and to impose terms on the enemy

    Full offensive should be initiated, take Kiev, and move to the Dnieper

    Let them offer terms, but none should be offered from our side

    Only full return to 1997 NATO positions can be accepted, the ultimatum was delivered and now is the time to show them that it was not only empty words

    Let them deal with the consequences of their actions

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    Post  mnztr Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:41 pm

    US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is putting together a "Peace offer" to end the war in Ukraine. The peace offer has multiple points of interest: 1) US would recognize Russian control over Crimea, Donbass, Zaporozhye, and Kherson – the land bridge that connects Crimea and Russia” – as a fait accompli. 2) In turn Russia would be asked to stall off it's Spring Offensive. 3) Ukraine would have a demilitarized status, and the deployment of HIMARS missiles and Leopard and Abrams tanks would be confined to western Ukraine, kept as a “deterrent against further Russian attacks.” wrote:

    I would say something like *uck off Blinky. There will be peace when we say there will be peace. Now go back into your corner and shaddap.

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    Post  mnztr Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:46 pm

    I predict M1A1's will not make it to Urkaine. The slow witted Scholtz got totally shafted by Biden. The M1s the USA proposed to send will have to be specially configured to remove DU and a bunch of secret stuff. Which means they will take M1s from reserve and have to totally design and build a spec to send to Ukraine. probably at least 18m at best .

    Can you imagine, being outfoxed by Chowdah brain!!

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    Post  ucmvulcan Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:47 pm

    As much as I want peace and this war to end I really hope the Kremlin does not agree to this. This peace will only lead to a new and possibly far worse conflict within the next 10 years.

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    Post  kvs Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:48 pm

    Merouris has pegged this indirect proposal as a neocon con. There is pressure in the US to choose another path but the rabid neocon
    freaks will have none of that. This "peace offer" is an obvious attempt to sabotage any peace.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:53 pm

    They are delaying for time- those fucks never will stick to an agreement

    What is good, is that no leader can believe or agree to this nonsense , the leadership was embarrassed enough

    Now it's time to put an end to this, and to impose terms on the enemy

    Full offensive should be initiated, take Kiev, and move to the Dnieper

    Let them offer terms, but none should be offered from our side

    Only full return to 1997 NATO positions can be accepted, the ultimatum was delivered and now is the time to show them that it was not only empty words

    Let them deal with the consequences of their actions

    Well yeah, it's just a maneuver most likely. And Moscow will see right through it.

    They're openly talking about destroying Russia.. will they suddenly forget about such plans if they agree to a deal in the Ukraine? Will Russia believe them?
    They tried and failed. Why let them get away to regroup and try again later?

    I mean let's say they decide to offer a reasonable deal over the Ukraine

    The problem is that NATO will undergo full rearmament and war mobilization in the interim. The Ukraine will end up preserved as a pro-NATO regime, even if a defanged one - but all it would take is for NATO to indicate their readiness to cross over and whatever manpower the Ukraine has trained up for combat in the interim in NATO territories will be able to man their shiny new Leo 2's and Abrams and F-16s and the war will resume. Quite possibly this time with NATO forces officially in the Ukraine, not Russian.

    Therefore any peace deal between Russia and the Ukraine will essentially have to be one between Russia and NATO as well, to ward off any such scenarios as that which I've mentioned. And this I simply don't see happening. They're not looking for peace with Russia, or an acceptance of multi-polarity in the world, or are ready to recognize Russia's new territories and for the Ukraine to give up claims to them. They're looking a temporary armistice because their previous cunning plan to regime change or break up Russia didn't work as planned.

    My instinct says that Russia has them trapped in an unwinnable war; which they can't turn the tide of unless they're ready to directly attack the Russian military with NATO armies and with all assets in support. This I don't think their generals will let them do, nor will many of the various members of the alliance be ready to go along with such actions, even puppets as they are of Washington.
    Russia should keep the campaign going and see what they have the balls to do next.
    Any peace deal if it ever comes will have to be wide-reaching and obligate Russia and NATO, not just Russia and the Ukraine.


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    Post  flamming_python Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:57 pm

    Merouris has pegged this indirect proposal as a neocon con. There is pressure in the US to choose another path but the rabid neocon
    freaks will have none of that. This "peace offer" is an obvious attempt to sabotage any peace.

    I may be wrong but wasn't he talking about some other 'proposal' that the neo-cons floated a few days ago?
    One that included the Russian demilitarization of the Crimea.

    Or is it one and the same?

    This one seems separate, and not officially published so far; simply making the rounds as a rumour I guess to gauge Russia's reaction to it.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:57 pm

    You are not getting 1997 NATO, be realistic.

    That said Putin would have to be a fool to agree and humor the offer.

    Since it's right in the writing us weapons would still come and remain just that they are for 'detterence'

    So yeah cannot imagine Putin taking that bait as we'd just build up forces under the guise of deterrence

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:27 pm

    The Russian Foreign Ministry has dismissed proposals issued this week in Washington by US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and his Under Secretary, Victoria Nuland. Ministry spokesman Maria Zakharova has confirmed that Russia’s military plan for the Ukraine will not be interrupted or delayed.

    “It is not necessary to talk about what will happen if someone does something [in the Ukraine],” Zakharova said. “There is a situation on the ground that we are solving. Everything. This is not a question of guesswork, but of our assessment of what is happening. This is based on the situation on the ground and direct political statements by Western politicians. Given that all negotiations have been terminated by Ukraine, this issue will be resolved on the ground. Under pressure or on its own, Kiev has banned any negotiations with Russia at the government level. So that’s it. The rest is for the military experts.”

    ----------

    As stated , the west is bluffing, they aren't keeping the weapons west to get an agreement

    Their military strategy has failed

    Their only chance is to keep the weapons west of the Dnieper as that is the only place they can realistically build a defense, along the dnieper, or the old nazi "Panther-Wotan" line

    Panther-Wotan was a defense line built by Manstein along the river after they got smashed at Kharkov and Donbass

    It's history repeating itself, once Bakhmut falls and the last line of defense Slavyansk-Konstantinovka is ground down

    The Russian army can push to Dnieper line

    If NATO enters and man's the equipment, sweep in from Poland and destroy them in their rear areas

    It's simple

    There's over 100,000 troops in Belarus , and another several hundred thousand in the new Russian territories

    NATO is a paper tiger, bluffing to get an armistice

    As Putin told the MOD last week:" there will be no half hearted measures "

    At this point a DMZ, is insufficient, more territory must be taken to impose conditions on them

    If NATO is intent to continue fighting, then make due on the threat

    But it's bullshit to think London will restrict challenger use , to prevent capture or some other shit like this

    London knows that they cannot spare more equipment to use on some bonzai charge in Southern Ukraine

    They can only use that equipment to defend western Ukraine-

    And Blinken knows it too, there is no "disagreement" between the state department and pentagon

    They are posturing, they know they cannot conduct any serious offensive

    They know what is about to happen in donbass, and revealed their own hand, they are leaving eastern Ukraine


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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:31 pm

    What's the source of this supposed Blinken proposal anyway? Random guy on Twitter?

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:32 pm

    Wagner in Kleshchevka, south of Bakhmut.

    A woman soldier... interesting...

    That said, I agree that Milanovic's statements are mostly just populism and have little substance, but they're not as meaningless as a German president's deliberations.

    A good barometer of what the population are probably thinking though... which makes it interesting.

    If this is true, it is a sign that the West is reaching the limit. They have probably already assessed that this will not be strong against a massive attack that is taking shape from Belarus. They are afraid of losing all of Ukraine.

    Also a good indication that they know Kievs forces are at breaking point too...

    However, Russia is unlikely to accept these terms. No pro-Western government can govern Ukraine if it continues to exist as a state.

    Start a #tag with #NoToMinsk3.

    Russia needs Odessa though.

    Not just to liberate them from the Nazis, but also to cut Kiev off from the Black Sea to export any resources the west wants to steal from them moving forward.

    I suspect what Russia needs is an actual peace offer'/agreement not essentially a better Minsk agreement.

    The west can't be trusted, Russia needs the Ukrainian opposition to eliminate their enemy and take over to negotiate with Russia with a clean sheet... this new group will have no ties to the west and therefore will either be joining the RF or become a neutral state between Russia and the EU.

    On Russian terms they would probably let them trade with the EU but the EU will see them as too pro Russia and will likely close their borders.

    The breakaway regions in Moldova can join the RF and trade can go through Moldova for Russia and for neutral bits of the Ukraine they could probably trade with the EU through Moldova, but they could trade with Russia and the rest of Asia through Russia so problems with the EU wont be so critical.

    Finally, nothing about denying the Ukraine NATO membership here. Implying such is not good enough, it has to be written down as such.

    Even if it ticked every box and was everything that was wanted... so was the Minsk agreements... that was an agreed on solution too...

    There is no reason for Russia to trust the west. And dozens of reasons not to.


    On the whole - a step in the right direction, if true.

    It indicates they know they have a weak hand and are getting desperate... so Russia should not agree to or sign anything.

    Time is on Russias side and as time goes on it only gets better.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:38 pm

    Dr.Snufflebug wrote:What's the source of this supposed Blinken proposal anyway? Random guy on Twitter?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/24/blinken-ponders-post-ukraine-war-order/

    They're not offering shit, just stalling to rebuild defenses in western Ukraine

    They ain't moving shit east of the Dnieper

    It's over for them there, ugledar is falling, Bakhmut is surrounded

    He's calling it a fait accompli because he knows the score

    But he ain't fooling anyone, least of all the stavka

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    Post  Erk Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:39 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    The problem is that NATO will undergo full rearmament and war mobilization in the interim. The Ukraine will end up preserved as a pro-NATO regime, even if a defanged one - but all it would take is for NATO to indicate their readiness to cross over and whatever manpower the Ukraine has trained up for combat in the interim in NATO territories will be able to man their shiny new Leo 2's and Abrams and F-16s and the war will resume. Quite possibly this time with NATO forces officially in the Ukraine, not Russian.

    If Nato does a full on attack of Russia, either nukes will be used if Russia actually feels threatened, or other countries will jump in to help Russia.
    Remember, 7/8ths. of the global population is not the collective West, and Russia has very few foes outside of the West.

    Either way, NATO looses.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:42 pm

    Ludovicense wrote:US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is putting together a "Peace offer" to end the war in Ukraine.

    Little Blinkie can shove his "offer" up his well-laid arse.  Too much water under the fcking bridge.  These dirty murkan b'stardz plotted this war as an act of agression, designed to break Russias economy and beggar her people, to severly damage her military, and to achieve regime change to install a Yelstin-II comprador to oversee the dissolution of the russian nation and its piecemeal takeover by globalist private capital interests.  angry

    These evil pricks don't get to decide when the war stops or how far Russia can progress with its takedown of the nazi regime in Kiev.  It is Russia that makes this decision and only Russia.  Murkan scum can watch and cry and whimper from the sidelines and lament as their global hegemony curls up and dies in the corner while lying in a pool of its own filth. angry

    Go Russia!  Take no prisoners.  Kill the fcking Ukrops.  Tear down the US hegemonic project.  Smite the accursed globalists and cast them down. russia

    mnzrt wrote:I would say something like *uck off Blinky. There will be peace when we say there will be peace. Now go back into your corner and shaddap.

    Bingo! +1000 russia


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #37 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #37

    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:45 pm

    The problem is that NATO will undergo full rearmament and war mobilization in the interim. The Ukraine will end up preserved as a pro-NATO regime, even if a defanged one - but all it would take is for NATO to indicate their readiness to cross over and whatever manpower the Ukraine has trained up for combat in the interim in NATO territories will be able to man their shiny new Leo 2's and Abrams and F-16s and the war will resume. Quite possibly this time with NATO forces officially in the Ukraine, not Russian.

    Minsk 3 is what they want... or JPOCA... they are delaying tactics to retard the enemy while they build up for a more aggressive response because they are too weak now...

    You are not getting 1997 NATO, be realistic.

    Would agree, but lots of HATO officials are saying if Russia wins then this will be very bad for HATO... they use it to bully countries to send assistance to Kiev... but there is an element of truth there... being a member of HATO makes Russia your enemy... it would probably be safer for Finland and Sweden to not join... not that they wont try because they are missing out on being an enemy of Russia yet claim they are neutral... like Switzerland... who are not neutral anyway.

    The west and Europe has shown its hand of trying to destroy Russias economy and kill her military forces... no going straight back to normal trade in such a case.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #37 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #37

    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:56 pm

    It's a bluff dude

    Lloyd is firing Ukrainians to make Blinkens offer of a non corrupt Ukraine seem realistic

    Noone in Russia believes them and would ever believe them

    Not after Merkel admitted on live TV, that they were stalling for time, or after Baerbock admitted to being at war with Russia

    Zakharova already told them that they can talk to shoigu, Lavrov is busy legitimizing the eviction of the French from Africa , there's no time for diplomacy

    If 101st Airborne and 1st armored want to fight 100,000 Russians it can be arranged

    But a small NATO QRF of 50 Bradley's, 13 Leopards and 13 Abrams ain't gonna last long under an s400 umbrella and 100,000 union state forces

    🇧🇾🇷🇺❗Today begins the joint staff training of the Joint Command of the Regional Group of Forces - Ministry of Defense of Belarus

    The Ministry of Defense of Belarus reported that during the week the Russian and Belarusian military will work out the issues of joint planning of the use of troops based on the experience of armed conflicts of recent years on the topic "Decision making on the use of a regional grouping of troops (forces) in the interests of ensuring the military security of the Union State."

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #37 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #37

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