Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

China uses a similar ASCM swarm strategy but employs the Type 022 Houbei as a missile launching platform rather than an aircraft.

SOM in understand what you mean, but i must stress that anyway strategy using so different platforms (both in type and....in capabilities) isn't similar in any way except in its the most elementary ,about semantic, acception.

I often hear questions on the utility of an aircraft like SU-34 when other Russian-built aircraft -such as SU-30M/M2/35S - are ,supposedly, capable of the same or almost comparable weapon load also in the air to ground department and why Russian military insiders appear to put so big emphasis on its quick introduction in Russian Air Force .

In reality Su-34 when introduced into service will represent, by a very long margin ,the most advanced and specifically optimized very-low altitude intruder and tactical bomber operative worldwide.
Its airframe ,with an unique "compressed" design with fully blended canard and forward LERX for pitch stabilization and control, allowing outstanding stability and manoeuvrability with heavy ordnance’s s weight at great speed in the very low altitude turbulences, avionic suit , with its radar purposely designed for ground clutter rejection with vastly reduced upward primary emissions and sidelobes (also thanks to its shape) Low Probability of Intercept and simultaneous procession of the full spectrum of Nav/Trak modes for low altitude missions ( TA -Terrain Avoidance- TF-Terrain Following- NOE -Nap Of the Earth - etc..etc..)or the critical ABDS-Automatic Buffeting Dampening System - and AFSS- Active Flight Safety System- developed specifically for its optimized airframe, allowing to conduct types of high speed low altitude missions and follow flight pacts simply impossibles for any other aircraft worldwide or its Sat/Nav and real time weapon satellite update and , for finish, its secondary features such as the heavily armoured cockpit , wing root and engine ducts, and the extensive top-view aimed RCS reduction effort (allowing SU-34 ,only when flying at low altitude, and illuminated from high altitude from long range...cough..cough...AWACS...cough..cough...to have an RCS comparable to those of a modern cruise missile) all are aimed to obtain the perfect low altitude intruder and pop-out missile delivering platform .

A simialr design is obviously "son" of the type of military structure characterizing Russian main opponents .
Only to provide an example taken from the specific role in discussion (ASCM saturating attacks against advanced carrier battle groups) is sufficient to image at what range an E-2 flying at, let put, 10000 meters of altitude, would be capable to track two groups of SU-34 incoming from two different directions at high speed and ultra low altitude ,in perfect stability, and if the time necessary for those SU-34 to gain quickly altitude (someone remember what are...incidentally... the class of record that SU-34 achieved ? ) deliver theirs load of supersonic ASCM and evade at full speed would be compatible with the scrambling (alarm, take-off and reach of an useful interception range) of the aircraft present of the carrier.....

Now ,i believe, is more clear the motivation for the great impatience ,by part of Russian Air Force operators, on the quick and extensive introduction of Su-34 .

I share your view Mindstorm, regarding the Su-30 vs Su-34 argument.
Good post.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120301/171667714.html

Russian air force ordered 92 more Su-34, so now they have contracts for 124 Su-34 planes.

medo wrote:http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120301/171667714.html

Russian air force ordered 92 more Su-34, so now they have contracts for 124 Su-34 planes.

I was hoping for more by 2020 but I guess thats oke too.

Becaus if they pull out 70 Su-34 by 2015 by 2020 they intend to produce 54 Su-34 and that a slowdown, I wonder why.

On the other hand there might be more fresh orders by 2020.

I wonder what are this new weapons they keep saying all the time.

“Work is continuing to integrate modern air-to-surface weaponry now in development in Russia on the Su-34, with trials being carried out at the air force test center at Akhtubinsk.”

I think the 70 by 2015 is optimism at best. 32 is the number expected by the end of 2013. So 2 more years, 38 airframes? Big boost over current rate, not sure it will happen.

124 through 2020 is achievable though, around 13 yearly.

TR1 wrote:I think the 70 by 2015 is optimism at best. 32 is the number expected by the end of 2013. So 2 more years, 38 airframes? Big boost over current rate, not sure it will happen.

124 through 2020 is achievable though, around 13 yearly.

Well 70 is optimistic yes but still last year Russia produced 6 of them and
this year intends to produce 10 witch is almost 70% increase in comparison with 2011

Now if they keep on rolling with such pace ... LOL

Larger orders means they have larger money injections, which means they can save money by buying materials in larger batches.

They have produced a few aircraft now and should be getting better at making these aircraft through improving and refining the production method.

I would think the pressure on producing lots of Su-34s is reduced because the PAK FA and Su-35 will have air to ground capabilities.

Keep in mind the previous aircraft structure was Mig-29s, Su-27s, Mig-31s, and lots of single engine fighters like Mig-23, Mig-21, Su-17, Su-24 and Mig-27.

Most are single role aircraft that specialised in a particular role, while others had very basic swing capabilities... which mainly meant the fighters like the Mig-21, Mig-23, Mig-29, and Su-27 could carry dumb bombs when the enemy airpower had been defeated or didn't exist.

The Su-27, Mig-29, and Mig-31, Mig-23, and Mig-21 were pretty much fighters and interceptors only, while the Su-17, Su-24 and Mig-27 being ground attack only with minor self defence capability.

Even the Mig-35 is better than any of the previous generation aircraft with its AESA radar and 11 weapon stations ablet to carry sophisticated and capable weapons in the air to air and air to ground role.

With the Pak fa and Su-35 and perhaps Mig-35 all packing punches in air to air and also very very capable air to ground capability the need to replace the Su-24s on a one for one bases no longer exists.

I would expect an eventual fleet of 150-200 Su-34s will be quite capable of doing its job.

In fact 192 aircraft would be an ideal number for the 4 military districts as that means 48 aircraft each.

And I realise the previous generation could have been much more capable than they were if they had had upgrades and more importantly sophisticated weapons actually put into service in numbers so they mattered... that is only just happening now.

Nothing new. Wait for end of the year, when NAPO makes its deliveries.
10 airframes are expected.

http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2012-03-16/1_zelin.html#


In this interview Gen. A. Zelin clarify that number of Su-34 in RuAF at 2020 will be 124, with a total of 140 of them expected to enter in service some time after; it will follow a continual open upgrade cycle in those years (therefore, very likely, the SU-34s of various batchs will differ in level of sophistication).

It appear that, with the next implementation of long range missiles it will become also part of Russian nuclear deterrence forces !!


Some interesting details on other platforms.

Su-34 Radar.

I wonder if the new targeting pod being developed for the PAK FA is the Solluks pod that has been referred to in some articles?

We know the Su-34 has the built in Platan system and will likely carry a pod mounted targeting pod for certain missions and that there is the French Damocles pod and the Russian Sapsan pod and this Solluks pod that has been mentioned.

The advantage of pods is that they are easy to update and you don't need too many.

If you have 200 aircraft then you don't need to buy 200 pods... you could probably get away with 20-40 pods.

Pods are easier to replace too, in fact you don't replace them you cascade them, so when the 40 pods are no longer top of the line stuff you can buy 20-40 new pods. You don't need to get rid of the older pods... they can be adapted for roles they previously weren't used for.

Most ground attack missions the digital TV and low light level TV optics and laser target marker/ranger/laser spot seeker allows you to use laser guided bombs and missiles. As QWIP technology progresses you could add this to your inbuilt targeting system to make it more flexible, but you don't want to spend too much because the built in stuff is harder to update and to be useful needs to be fitted to every aircraft because you really don't know which will be available so if you need that capability on every aircraft it needs to be fitted to every aircraft.

The Platan system on the Su-34 is fairly modest and cheap, but effective for most clear weather use. The aircraft still has night and all weather capability with its radar, but for full capability a really good targeting pod makes all the difference.

Of course with the radar plus the built in navigation system including GLONASS the Su-34 can scan and find ground targets... use the location of the aircraft and the direction and distance to the target to calculate the targets precise coordinates that can be used with satellite guided bombs and missiles for all weather precision strike without a targeting pod. Something like Damocles however will allow a night and all weather look at the target for positive ID before engagement, and the potential for video of the engagement for confirmation of results so it can be determined if the target was dealt with or another strike needs to be called in.

Of course with a modern datalink a strike package of 4-8 Su-34s could have one aircraft using radar and one or two others using a damocles or Sapsan or Solluks pod... or all of the above and pass that information to all the aircraft in the group to take out a large number of targets in one pass...

AFAIK Platan does indeed have a thermal channel.

Actually, I don't get why Platan isn't inherently a better solution than pods- better internal mount + more space + power and cooling potential. Downside is of course limited viewing angles.

The information in Russias Arms 2004 says the "Su-32" has an optronic fire control and navigation complex incorporating a data display system, a plotter, and the Platan laser/TV station.

This suggests to me that Platan is a simple TV/Laser system only.

It is certainly possible they have incorporated a thermal sight... the technology has moved on and I am sure if it hasn't got a 3rd gen thermal imager included I would expect one would be added in the near future... a QWIP set would be relatively light and eventually very small and compact.

The completion of the GLONASS system will make the aircraft MUCH more capable as the aircraft becomes a much more accurate data collection system for both moving and stationary targets.

Actually, I don't get why Platan isn't inherently a better solution than pods- better internal mount + more space + power and cooling potential. Downside is of course limited viewing angles.

Internal equipment is always available and gives a capability to the entire fleet on every mission they fly.
Internal also means lower drag.

External pods can be much more expensive because you don't buy one of one to match the number of aircraft you want to use them on. A Damocles pod for the Su-34 units can be fitted to the Su-35 fleet too.

More importantly it is easier to upgrade a pod and depending on the pylon it is located on it generally gets a better field of view than most internal systems.

For the Mig-27K the optics systems were in the radarless nose and got excellent views with low drag, while Platan in the Su-34.

Platan is one of the most secret peace of equipment on Su-34. All data are about TV/laser range finder/target designator Platan installed on pre-series planes, which flow more than a decade ago. Platan on new serial Su-34 could be different, after all optics become smaller, so there could be enough space to place FLIR camera. After all why would you have additional targeting pod, when you already have the same system integrated in the plane itself. I also wonder how much is improved V004 radar, I doubt it is the same radar as the one in the nineties.

I agree that their expertise in thermal imagers has expanded greatly and their expertise in 3rd gen uncooled thermal imagers should enable a very compact and capable system to be added without costing too much.

The Radar has also benefited from improvements in electronics and radar design, and it wouldn't surprise me if they have greatly improved the Platan.

However the purpose of the system was to give a standard basic weapon delivery capability that did not require the use of radar, and for optically guided and laser guided weapons it is fine.

Some targeting pods are more than just thermal imagers and lasers... they have equipment for navigation and datalinks that allow what the pilot sees to be transmitted to ground forces or HQs in real time and with built in sat nav can be used to calculate the precise ground coordinates of fixed things for targeting with sat guided bombs and missiles, and lots of other little tricks.

With the new C4IR comms and datalinks a single aircraft in a flight of several aircraft can use a single targeting pod on one aircraft to laser range a large group of targets and calculate their positions in 3 dimensions and then pass target data to the other aircraft in the flight including optimum glide paths for the weapons if the target happens to be up a tricky gorge in the mountains. Equally the optical targeting system can be used to engage aerial targets as well...

Pods are more flexible and cheaper and are easier to upgrade.

GarryB wrote:I agree that their expertise in thermal imagers has expanded greatly and their expertise in 3rd gen uncooled thermal imagers should enable a very compact and capable system to be added without costing too much.

The Radar has also benefited from improvements in electronics and radar design, and it wouldn't surprise me if they have greatly improved the Platan.

However the purpose of the system was to give a standard basic weapon delivery capability that did not require the use of radar, and for optically guided and laser guided weapons it is fine.

Some targeting pods are more than just thermal imagers and lasers... they have equipment for navigation and datalinks that allow what the pilot sees to be transmitted to ground forces or HQs in real time and with built in sat nav can be used to calculate the precise ground coordinates of fixed things for targeting with sat guided bombs and missiles, and lots of other little tricks.

With the new C4IR comms and datalinks a single aircraft in a flight of several aircraft can use a single targeting pod on one aircraft to laser range a large group of targets and calculate their positions in 3 dimensions and then pass target data to the other aircraft in the flight including optimum glide paths for the weapons if the target happens to be up a tricky gorge in the mountains. Equally the optical targeting system can be used to engage aerial targets as well...

Pods are more flexible and cheaper and are easier to upgrade.

True, but Su-34 have all this equipment build inside the plane, the only thing missing is FLIR camera. Different story is for Su-30 or Su-35, which are fighters first and not dedicated bombers. They could only upgrade Platan with thermal imager and Su-34 doesn't need any pod.

SU 34 with Pod

SAP 14 pod for Su 34


There is a probability that the Sapsan-E thermal imaging and laser targeting pod will be carried externally, probably on the No 9 ventral inlet station.

That is an ESM pod used to detect and locate enemy electronics sources... ie radar and radio emitters.

Add on pods will always be useful for the Su-34 as it makes them much more flexible and able to perform a range of missions without compromising the design one way or another.

For instance for a SEAD role the belly mounted ESM pod shown in the post above can be used together with internal electronics and wingtip mounted jamming pods plus a few AAMs for self defence, a few ARMs to attack active radar emitters and a few LGBs and bombs with gliding packages to allow attacks on emitting radars as well as missile sites after their radars have been taken care of.

The gliding bombs allow standoff attacks against missiles that might have optical alternative guidance options.

Having a targeting pod as well as the internal Platan EO fire control system means potentially multiple targets could be engaged with laser guided weapons while retaining control of the engagement... for instance that case in Kosovo where the pilot was lasing a bridge and a few seconds before the laser guided bomb hit the bridge a passenger train approached... with a laser guided weapon the pilot could redirect the laser designator to miss by sufficient distance to save the people in the train. With GPS guided weapons there is no such control.

The central ECM pod is meant to be used as escort jammer like Prowler or Growler. Su-34 with both wingtip ECM pods, central ECM pod, 4 ARMs like Kh-31 or Kh-58 and 4 AAMs is quite effective SEAD/DEAD platform. I wonder if this central ECM pod will be also integrated in Su-30SM and Su-35. Maybe Su-35 will not use it as exclusively air dominance fighter, but Su-30SM could use it, because it is also two sitter and is multirole fighter.

The central ECM pod is meant to be used as escort jammer like Prowler or Growler.

Technically it is an ESM pod in that it would be used to detect enemy emissions and catalogue them before being used with wingtip mounted pods to deceive or jam the emitters. With newer Air Defence systems using sophisticated phased arrays for tracking and guidance you pretty much have to be marked to get a lock with an ARM, though weapons like the Kh-58 that locates the emitter and homes on its location if emissions cease having a precise location is just as important.

This is just a case of a set of external pods making aircraft more flexible... similar pods have been seen on the Su-30MKK2 AFAIK and would transform a fighter bomber like an Su-30 or Su-35 or Su-34 into a Growler class aircraft without requiring fixed antennas and equipment to be fitted.

Like targeting pods it makes the aircraft more flexible and cheaper... and it makes upgrades cheaper and easier.

Maybe Su-35 will not use it as exclusively air dominance fighter, but Su-30SM could use it, because it is also two sitter and is multirole fighter.

Actually I rather suspect the sophisticated avionics of the Su-35 (almost 5th gen and 5th gen being adapted from the PAK FA) would mean it can perform roles previously only suited to two seat aircraft.

Actually I rather suspect the sophisticated avionics of the Su-35 (almost 5th gen and 5th gen being adapted from the PAK FA) would mean it can perform roles previously only suited to two seat aircraft.

True, specially when Su-35 will be exported. But I think Russian air force will use Su-35 as air defense fighter same as PAK FA and not as multirole fighter. I think this could be also a reason behind RuAF decision to buy Su-30SM, which could be used as multirole figher, specially in operations outside Russian air space. I more think Su-35 and PAK FA will do a job of previous air defense fighter aviation.