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What does this word means?
Is there anyone who reply to me..
Is there anyone who reply to me..
+3
Kysusha
sepheronx
A4humans14
7 posters
Terrorists? - "Good" guys, "Bad" guys
A4humans14- Posts : 1
Points : 3
Join date : 2009-10-20
sepheronx- Posts : 8548
Points : 8810
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 34
Location : Canada
quick google search
Wiki
example:
Wiki
example:
Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.[1] At present, there is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism.[2][3] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
You need to forgive me here guys, I perhaps see things that aren’t there [I haven’t yet started to hear things though].
At the start of this week, I was following some news articles from Airlines and Security Companies around the world, who were agitating against the stringent American lead anti -terrorist measures that have been introduced into airports and the like around the world. There was a bit of a passenger rebellion starting as people were complaining about delays and the necessity of the measures that were introduce. Hell, one spokeswoman actually said that they were all American lead or sponsored measures, intimating that if they had their way, then the measures would be scrapped immediately. Indeed, following these reports from around the world, during the week, it certainly appeared as though we were in for a change in the stringent regime surrounding airport security.
Imagine my surprise [or lack thereof] today when I see in the news that a viable terrorist attack has been thwarted on cargo planes emanating out of Yemen . What’s more, the FBI had operated in a “tip-off” from deep seated sources regarding the planned terrorist attack.
Now it is about here that my credibility senor kicks off! I mean, ask yourself the likelihood of this attack being planned the very week there was world-wide outrage at the anti-terrorist measures being forced upon the world by America. What’s more, once again it is the FBI’s deep seated informant(s) who saves the world by bringing this to the world attention. Thank CNN, FOX BBC et al Main Stream Media for streaming it live ad nauseum, into our homes just so we could not miss the major event – Hail America, saviour of the world, once again!
Look back over previous terrorist plots and you will see that they followed events aimed at reducing anti-terrorist laws, or they happened immediately prior to the introduction of new stringent laws.
Am I just a cynical old man?
But wait, I see others are responding to the announcement – or mistiming of it.
“Questions are being asked about the length of time it took to inform David Cameron and the British Government about the ink cartridge bomb plot.
Leicestershire constabulary responded to the initial alert and discovered the package at around 3.30am. After an initial examination appeared to uncover nothing suspicious, police sources played down its significance as one of the many suspect packages reported every day to officers.
The alert at the airport was lifted before 10am, only to be re-imposed at 2pm as police and forensic teams re-examined the packages, seemingly after new intelligence emerged. It was not until 5pm, as news broke in the US, that police formally confirmed a suspicious package had been found.
Sources continued to suggest there were no explosives present, and Scotland Yard said it was not involved. But an hour later, detectives from the Metropolitan Police’s Counter Terrorism Command said they had taken over the inquiry.
At 7pm, two hours before President Obama said explosives had apparently been found, Leicestershire police issued a statement that the “East Midlands Airport incident has been resolved”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8098120/Cargo-plane-bomb-plot-David-Cameron-not-informed-of-terror-threat-for-16-hours.html
Today’s news has the Head of New Scotland Yard coming on the screen to verify that yes, this was a viable threat and yes the bombs were real. Those of us who actually saw the direct news cast would have seen the British Counter-Terrorist squad take the “device” from the plane and PUT IT IN THEIR OWN HELICOPTER to take it away! What idiot would take a ‘Bomb” from one aircraft and place it in another?!!!! Surely this has all the hallmarks of a contrived release?
As the pantomime developed, I see on the news that an "Intelligence Expert" and Security man lambasting the head of BA over comments that he made earlier in the week questioning the need for the security procedures currently in place in airports. This expert was literally jumping in his seat saying, "well, where is he and others like him who were calling for he reduction of security measures now?" "They are strangely quite, aren't they?".
Seems like Britain, America's lapdog, couldn't get their timing right on this occasion with Obummers announcements.
Still another thought - this wouldn't have [couldn't have] anything to do with mid-term elections, now could it? Like a McCain inspired invasion of Georgia to boost poll ratings ahead of an election?! See how well our Commander in Chief is handling yet another terrorist crisis - he is the man to lead the nation!. For my money - Obummer is a CIA stooge - a planted figurehead.
At the start of this week, I was following some news articles from Airlines and Security Companies around the world, who were agitating against the stringent American lead anti -terrorist measures that have been introduced into airports and the like around the world. There was a bit of a passenger rebellion starting as people were complaining about delays and the necessity of the measures that were introduce. Hell, one spokeswoman actually said that they were all American lead or sponsored measures, intimating that if they had their way, then the measures would be scrapped immediately. Indeed, following these reports from around the world, during the week, it certainly appeared as though we were in for a change in the stringent regime surrounding airport security.
Imagine my surprise [or lack thereof] today when I see in the news that a viable terrorist attack has been thwarted on cargo planes emanating out of Yemen . What’s more, the FBI had operated in a “tip-off” from deep seated sources regarding the planned terrorist attack.
Now it is about here that my credibility senor kicks off! I mean, ask yourself the likelihood of this attack being planned the very week there was world-wide outrage at the anti-terrorist measures being forced upon the world by America. What’s more, once again it is the FBI’s deep seated informant(s) who saves the world by bringing this to the world attention. Thank CNN, FOX BBC et al Main Stream Media for streaming it live ad nauseum, into our homes just so we could not miss the major event – Hail America, saviour of the world, once again!
Look back over previous terrorist plots and you will see that they followed events aimed at reducing anti-terrorist laws, or they happened immediately prior to the introduction of new stringent laws.
Am I just a cynical old man?
But wait, I see others are responding to the announcement – or mistiming of it.
“Questions are being asked about the length of time it took to inform David Cameron and the British Government about the ink cartridge bomb plot.
Leicestershire constabulary responded to the initial alert and discovered the package at around 3.30am. After an initial examination appeared to uncover nothing suspicious, police sources played down its significance as one of the many suspect packages reported every day to officers.
The alert at the airport was lifted before 10am, only to be re-imposed at 2pm as police and forensic teams re-examined the packages, seemingly after new intelligence emerged. It was not until 5pm, as news broke in the US, that police formally confirmed a suspicious package had been found.
Sources continued to suggest there were no explosives present, and Scotland Yard said it was not involved. But an hour later, detectives from the Metropolitan Police’s Counter Terrorism Command said they had taken over the inquiry.
At 7pm, two hours before President Obama said explosives had apparently been found, Leicestershire police issued a statement that the “East Midlands Airport incident has been resolved”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8098120/Cargo-plane-bomb-plot-David-Cameron-not-informed-of-terror-threat-for-16-hours.html
Today’s news has the Head of New Scotland Yard coming on the screen to verify that yes, this was a viable threat and yes the bombs were real. Those of us who actually saw the direct news cast would have seen the British Counter-Terrorist squad take the “device” from the plane and PUT IT IN THEIR OWN HELICOPTER to take it away! What idiot would take a ‘Bomb” from one aircraft and place it in another?!!!! Surely this has all the hallmarks of a contrived release?
As the pantomime developed, I see on the news that an "Intelligence Expert" and Security man lambasting the head of BA over comments that he made earlier in the week questioning the need for the security procedures currently in place in airports. This expert was literally jumping in his seat saying, "well, where is he and others like him who were calling for he reduction of security measures now?" "They are strangely quite, aren't they?".
Seems like Britain, America's lapdog, couldn't get their timing right on this occasion with Obummers announcements.
Still another thought - this wouldn't have [couldn't have] anything to do with mid-term elections, now could it? Like a McCain inspired invasion of Georgia to boost poll ratings ahead of an election?! See how well our Commander in Chief is handling yet another terrorist crisis - he is the man to lead the nation!. For my money - Obummer is a CIA stooge - a planted figurehead.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
Points : 634
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 34
Location : Pakistan
Evil is when good men do nothing about it - Lenin.
It happens to me that this very adage was from Churchill & not from Lenin
Do correct me if i am wrong
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
nightcrawler wrote:Evil is when good men do nothing about it - Lenin.
It happens to me that this very adage was from Churchill & not from Lenin
Do correct me if i am wrong
Churchill stole many sayings and quotes – including his famous Iron Curtain speech. Another example: [there are actually, many].
• "Blood, Sweat, and Tears" - Winston Churchill
o Correct quote: "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat."
o The quote appeared in the book Metropolis, written by Thea von Harbou (wife of Metropolis director Fritz Lang), first published in 1926. The text, describing Freder Fredersen who has just finished his first day working to keep the machines of Metropolis alive, states, "He tasted a salty taste on his lips, and did not know if it was from blood, sweat, or tears."
o Notes: A similar quote from Winston Churchill can be found in a recorded speech he gave to the House of Commons where he says " I have never promised anything but blood, sweat and tears, now however we have a new experience. We have victory. a..a remarkable victory. A bright gleam has caught the helmets of our soldiers and warmed and cheered all our hearts."
However, there are several who claim this quotation but from my research, they are all slightly varying in terminology; for example:
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. “
Edmund Burke.
This is regarded as the “original quotation”. However as with many quotations – there is Trans lateralisation which occurs when the quotation is picked up and used by other than it’s native speaking language. [Each culture/language operates on different syntax and stimulates the brain slightly differently]. Hence, the exact wording of the quote is often not so important or is deliberately changed: as in this case, Lenin is purported to have said both “Evil triumphs when good men do nothing” as well as “Evil is when good men do nothing about it”. Both are apparent references to the “original’ quotation of Edmund Burke.
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
http://rt.com/news/us-bomb-plot-hoax/ Have a look at this:
prime13- Posts : 3
Points : 14
Join date : 2010-11-08
Location : Greece
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
Excellent post Prime13 - very balanced and very hard to discredit; the truth inverably is. I rep'ed you for tnis, well worth it and I forwarded the link to several on my email list. Some day, just a small handful of people are going to realise just who is pulling the strings in the world - and have been doing so for over a hundered years. Having set the terrorist theme - and proved that it worked; they will now advance it to world terror : our invasion from space! Sheepeople will blindly follow the offical story-line.
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
Have you been talking to Alex Jones?
A lot of people I've known are familiar with NWO or the Trilateral commission or the Illuminati and the such, but most people that have dismiss them as idiots.
A lot of people I've known are familiar with NWO or the Trilateral commission or the Illuminati and the such, but most people that have dismiss them as idiots.
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
IronsightSniper wrote:Have you been talking to Alex Jones?
A lot of people I've known are familiar with NWO or the Trilateral commission or the Illuminati and the such, but most people that have dismiss them as idiots.
The idiots are those who will not see. Like the saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink!
What people, such as you, try an do is to put a label on some one; as soon as they have labelled them, they can pigeon-hole them and be dismissive. Such as: “Oh, they are conspiracy theorists!” and immediately, they are labelled as kooks whose value or ideas are worthless or at best, highly dubious. Rather than attack the subject matter being put forward, the ill-informed attack the messenger and denigrate the person so as to make it easier to disregard the message, rather than having to actually think about the message.
You Ironsightssniper, would appear to be one of those mindless characters, intent on personal character assassination rather than being open to debate; a person [and unfortunately, there are many in America like you], totally brainwashed by the Zionist run Main Stream Media and full of fervent, idealistic patriotic crap.
And Alex Jones – who the hell is he? No doubt you will have a label for him, however.
PS, The video clip was from Australia, in case you didn't understand!
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
Here is a question for you Ironsightsniper;
Do you still say that a Terrorist bomb was planted on the cargo flight that landed in England from Yemen? [Reference my original post]. Do you still stand-by the “Official” US release of “credible intelligence of a bomb and the actual finding of a bomb on board”.
If you do, post your evidence.
If you don’t, then post why you have changed your mind.
Do you still say that a Terrorist bomb was planted on the cargo flight that landed in England from Yemen? [Reference my original post]. Do you still stand-by the “Official” US release of “credible intelligence of a bomb and the actual finding of a bomb on board”.
If you do, post your evidence.
If you don’t, then post why you have changed your mind.
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
It seems you have also labeled me xD
In any case, I haven't actually stated whether or not I "drank" from the water or not.
As for your question, I really didn't hear much about the supposed "bomb plot", so either way, I don't have much of an opinion on it.
In any case, I haven't actually stated whether or not I "drank" from the water or not.
As for your question, I really didn't hear much about the supposed "bomb plot", so either way, I don't have much of an opinion on it.
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
Ever noticed that depending on where the oil is, American foreign policy will shift to suit?
Remember the huge ruckus when the USSR went into Afghanistan to support a government sympathetic to the USSR? (Shades of Vietnam, I thought). America castigated the USSR and praised the “Mujahadin freedom fighters” of Afghanistan. The Taliban were surely fighting for the “American way of life – freedom and democracy”. There was covert and then overt support for the Mujahadin – Special Forces went there, following the CIA. Latest weaponry was given to them and America championed their cause around the world.
Finally, the USSR said “enough, we’re going home” and the American’s hailed the Mujahadin as great freedom fighters who crushed the might of the evil regime of the USSR; - the USSR had it’s Vietnam and America could now gloat.
Well, it didn’t take too long for that to change, did it? These Mujahadin freedom fighters, had their own ideas about how they wanted to run their country – they DIDN’T want American corporate giants in their country – they didn’t want or need Coke, Pepsi, Mac Donald’s or any of the other rubbish. Further more, they didn’t want to trade any of their resources with America! How ungrateful could you possibly be? A factional group of Taliban (Students of Islamic Knowledge Movement) had very different views on what they wanted for their country and the “freedom’ they had fought for than, what America wanted as pay-back.
These Terrorists need to be taught a lesson! And so America started a war against a sovereign state with the express purpose of over-throwing the Government and instigating a regime sympathetic to America corporate giants. (Sound familiar?). Incidentally, we are going to over-look that America instigated, funded, directed and pressured world opinion to support the over-throw of the Afghan government which the Mujahadin were fighting in the first place.
How can you simply believe that freedom fighters become terrorists because of a shift in foreign policy?
We are blinded by this notion that “American Freedom is the Alpha and Omega”. Let me tell you a short story about the “Freedom” that has been given to Europe. In my travels to Russia, I spent time in a town not far from Kazan, taking with the Directors of a large company. They had recently returned from a business trip to Czechoslovakia and were deeply upset by what they had witnessed. There they had visited a small town of some 15,000 people which had as it’s only source of income, a very well respected industrial plant. This business had been bought out by new American owners and the new owners went to the factory and hand-picked several of the “brains” of the company and told them that their job was now in America – the rest of them, told to go home and the factory was closed down. The town died! These guys said they saw this happening all over Czechoslovakia and said that now the country was in ruin.
“Is this the freedom American wants”, they asked me – “the freedom to be industrial terrorists?”.
Terrorist Paranoia - American Style
At the time of the “shoe bomber”, I ventured on another trip to Russia and some ex Soviet states, which was four weeks in duration and we went through many railway stations, bus terminals and air-ports (as you might imagine). We experienced our fair share of terrorist paranoia, it seems that each airport we went into had their own rules regarding what you could take onto the plane. It startled with Air New Zealand – they let us take some Galileo (an oil filled thermometers with little floats in it that rise or sink depending on the temperature) onboard a domestic flight to Auckland, but once there, we had to turn them over to Airport security for destruction as they were “Dangerous Goods". Seems the oil mix in them is considered more volatile than the proof spirits you are allowed to take onboard from Duty Free – I bet if they sold Galileo thermometers at the airport Duty Free, THEN, you could take the thermometers onboard as cabin luggage! It has little to do with terrorism and all to do with money and who is selling what to whom.
I can’t believe the hassle over these – we took 40 proof Vodka onto the plane and it was much more flammable than the oil mix in these thermometers! Again I suppose we need to thank America. When we were coming out of Hungary, we had a stop in Munich and there we again had new instructions as to what we could have in our cabin baggage. I explained to the woman that after four weeks of travel and countless changes of instruction in each airport (each one had a different view on what you could take onboard), I had had enough. She replied, very politely “I’m sorry sir, it is not Lufthansa’s fault”. I paused for a moment or two and then quietly apologised saying that I was very tired and really just wanted to get home, we had been travelling for over a day as it was and still had more than one day to go. I then said, “I suppose we should thank America?”. She replied – “exactly, sir”. A voice from behind me came across in a very strong American drawl – “Say, if it wasn’t for America, you’d all be speaking Japanese now”. I immediately quipped back to him – “mate, if it wasn’t for America starting wars it couldn’t finish, we wouldn’t have terrorism!”. He had no answer.”
I have no truck with Muslim extremist – rather like lesbians becoming feminists, I suppose – and they’ll never convert me!
No, what I have trouble with is American selective morality which is disguised under the flag of democracy and the slogan of freedom. Freedom, American style, is the freedom of their multi-national companies to sell their products in YOUR country – if they don’t have that, “then partner, we need to free you”!
America starts wars as an extension of their foreign policy – which is based on the dictates of American business interests. Even the most dyed and blue – stars and stripes big mouth would have to concede that; one only has to look at wars that have been started and see that the reasons are all dubious at best.
Afghanistan was to help out our friends the Taliban freedom fighters (because Afghanistan would give access to oil etc – but then, someone forgot to tell the Taliban that then need to forever be grateful to Uncle Sam and see what happened – the Taliban became terrorists. The Kuwait war was plainly and simply about oil! The second Gulf war was about weapons of mass destruction! Dam, the list goes on and on. The most bigoted American supporter cannot deny these events.
It’s the hypocrisy that gets me and the way we are feed propaganda and are expected to swallow it simply because it must be true because America said so. Do some reading on the covert wars and acts of genocide perpetrated by the CIA – in the name of American business. The CIA is currently festering terrorism in Georgia and Chechena in order to keep Russia busy and in the hope of taking oil reserves from the Caucasus for American interests. Yet American “policy” is to stamp out terrorism – it seems by whose definition we determine terrorism.
The greatest cover-ups in history are not British, they are not Russian, the are not French – they are American and even when the rest of the world knows – they still deny it.
The World the way America wants it
You know, this is me getting a bit off the track here – the thread of terrorism – but I’d take issue with a common premise that is often put forward:
“At least today when America is dominant, most of us even in 3rd world countries are free to practise our beliefs and lifestyle”.
This is the fundamental lie, put forward as the truth! Capitalism is based solely on an inherent flaw in human nature – greed. We support capitalism “in the hope that we too will be rich like……”. Our god is money. The first capitalist you will see referred too is in Mathew 10:21 ,22: “Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions”.
It is the love of money which is in itself, the root of all evil.
We need to look carefully at what we are feed as truth and examine the processes behind events. Who do you think was the most deceived: under communism, the people KNEW that when they voted, they couldn’t change the government. The government would implement what it set out in it’s five or ten year plan regardless of who was “elected” into the government. Under democratic democracy (Western capitalism) we BELIEVE that every three years WE can change the government and thus control where the country is going – wake up! Whatever government we elect, it will do what the multi-nationals say. David Lange found that out when he became PM of New Zealand. He said, “ when I was going to be elected, I was going to change everything – after I was elected I found I could change nothing”.
Look at the current stupid situation in New Zealand whereby Coke Cola and the government have made a “deal” to cut children’s intake of sugar! It’s a total farce – a government capitulation to big business. The government simply cannot say to Coke Cola – take your rubbish out of our schools.
When America is dominant – the rest of us suffer their form of capitalist democracy; we MUST do things their way. We are persuaded, by extremely clever advertising and suave politicians that we really have a choice – but we don’t.
This is the true terrorism.
Remember the huge ruckus when the USSR went into Afghanistan to support a government sympathetic to the USSR? (Shades of Vietnam, I thought). America castigated the USSR and praised the “Mujahadin freedom fighters” of Afghanistan. The Taliban were surely fighting for the “American way of life – freedom and democracy”. There was covert and then overt support for the Mujahadin – Special Forces went there, following the CIA. Latest weaponry was given to them and America championed their cause around the world.
Finally, the USSR said “enough, we’re going home” and the American’s hailed the Mujahadin as great freedom fighters who crushed the might of the evil regime of the USSR; - the USSR had it’s Vietnam and America could now gloat.
Well, it didn’t take too long for that to change, did it? These Mujahadin freedom fighters, had their own ideas about how they wanted to run their country – they DIDN’T want American corporate giants in their country – they didn’t want or need Coke, Pepsi, Mac Donald’s or any of the other rubbish. Further more, they didn’t want to trade any of their resources with America! How ungrateful could you possibly be? A factional group of Taliban (Students of Islamic Knowledge Movement) had very different views on what they wanted for their country and the “freedom’ they had fought for than, what America wanted as pay-back.
These Terrorists need to be taught a lesson! And so America started a war against a sovereign state with the express purpose of over-throwing the Government and instigating a regime sympathetic to America corporate giants. (Sound familiar?). Incidentally, we are going to over-look that America instigated, funded, directed and pressured world opinion to support the over-throw of the Afghan government which the Mujahadin were fighting in the first place.
How can you simply believe that freedom fighters become terrorists because of a shift in foreign policy?
We are blinded by this notion that “American Freedom is the Alpha and Omega”. Let me tell you a short story about the “Freedom” that has been given to Europe. In my travels to Russia, I spent time in a town not far from Kazan, taking with the Directors of a large company. They had recently returned from a business trip to Czechoslovakia and were deeply upset by what they had witnessed. There they had visited a small town of some 15,000 people which had as it’s only source of income, a very well respected industrial plant. This business had been bought out by new American owners and the new owners went to the factory and hand-picked several of the “brains” of the company and told them that their job was now in America – the rest of them, told to go home and the factory was closed down. The town died! These guys said they saw this happening all over Czechoslovakia and said that now the country was in ruin.
“Is this the freedom American wants”, they asked me – “the freedom to be industrial terrorists?”.
Terrorist Paranoia - American Style
At the time of the “shoe bomber”, I ventured on another trip to Russia and some ex Soviet states, which was four weeks in duration and we went through many railway stations, bus terminals and air-ports (as you might imagine). We experienced our fair share of terrorist paranoia, it seems that each airport we went into had their own rules regarding what you could take onto the plane. It startled with Air New Zealand – they let us take some Galileo (an oil filled thermometers with little floats in it that rise or sink depending on the temperature) onboard a domestic flight to Auckland, but once there, we had to turn them over to Airport security for destruction as they were “Dangerous Goods". Seems the oil mix in them is considered more volatile than the proof spirits you are allowed to take onboard from Duty Free – I bet if they sold Galileo thermometers at the airport Duty Free, THEN, you could take the thermometers onboard as cabin luggage! It has little to do with terrorism and all to do with money and who is selling what to whom.
I can’t believe the hassle over these – we took 40 proof Vodka onto the plane and it was much more flammable than the oil mix in these thermometers! Again I suppose we need to thank America. When we were coming out of Hungary, we had a stop in Munich and there we again had new instructions as to what we could have in our cabin baggage. I explained to the woman that after four weeks of travel and countless changes of instruction in each airport (each one had a different view on what you could take onboard), I had had enough. She replied, very politely “I’m sorry sir, it is not Lufthansa’s fault”. I paused for a moment or two and then quietly apologised saying that I was very tired and really just wanted to get home, we had been travelling for over a day as it was and still had more than one day to go. I then said, “I suppose we should thank America?”. She replied – “exactly, sir”. A voice from behind me came across in a very strong American drawl – “Say, if it wasn’t for America, you’d all be speaking Japanese now”. I immediately quipped back to him – “mate, if it wasn’t for America starting wars it couldn’t finish, we wouldn’t have terrorism!”. He had no answer.”
I have no truck with Muslim extremist – rather like lesbians becoming feminists, I suppose – and they’ll never convert me!
No, what I have trouble with is American selective morality which is disguised under the flag of democracy and the slogan of freedom. Freedom, American style, is the freedom of their multi-national companies to sell their products in YOUR country – if they don’t have that, “then partner, we need to free you”!
America starts wars as an extension of their foreign policy – which is based on the dictates of American business interests. Even the most dyed and blue – stars and stripes big mouth would have to concede that; one only has to look at wars that have been started and see that the reasons are all dubious at best.
Afghanistan was to help out our friends the Taliban freedom fighters (because Afghanistan would give access to oil etc – but then, someone forgot to tell the Taliban that then need to forever be grateful to Uncle Sam and see what happened – the Taliban became terrorists. The Kuwait war was plainly and simply about oil! The second Gulf war was about weapons of mass destruction! Dam, the list goes on and on. The most bigoted American supporter cannot deny these events.
It’s the hypocrisy that gets me and the way we are feed propaganda and are expected to swallow it simply because it must be true because America said so. Do some reading on the covert wars and acts of genocide perpetrated by the CIA – in the name of American business. The CIA is currently festering terrorism in Georgia and Chechena in order to keep Russia busy and in the hope of taking oil reserves from the Caucasus for American interests. Yet American “policy” is to stamp out terrorism – it seems by whose definition we determine terrorism.
The greatest cover-ups in history are not British, they are not Russian, the are not French – they are American and even when the rest of the world knows – they still deny it.
The World the way America wants it
You know, this is me getting a bit off the track here – the thread of terrorism – but I’d take issue with a common premise that is often put forward:
“At least today when America is dominant, most of us even in 3rd world countries are free to practise our beliefs and lifestyle”.
This is the fundamental lie, put forward as the truth! Capitalism is based solely on an inherent flaw in human nature – greed. We support capitalism “in the hope that we too will be rich like……”. Our god is money. The first capitalist you will see referred too is in Mathew 10:21 ,22: “Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions”.
It is the love of money which is in itself, the root of all evil.
We need to look carefully at what we are feed as truth and examine the processes behind events. Who do you think was the most deceived: under communism, the people KNEW that when they voted, they couldn’t change the government. The government would implement what it set out in it’s five or ten year plan regardless of who was “elected” into the government. Under democratic democracy (Western capitalism) we BELIEVE that every three years WE can change the government and thus control where the country is going – wake up! Whatever government we elect, it will do what the multi-nationals say. David Lange found that out when he became PM of New Zealand. He said, “ when I was going to be elected, I was going to change everything – after I was elected I found I could change nothing”.
Look at the current stupid situation in New Zealand whereby Coke Cola and the government have made a “deal” to cut children’s intake of sugar! It’s a total farce – a government capitulation to big business. The government simply cannot say to Coke Cola – take your rubbish out of our schools.
When America is dominant – the rest of us suffer their form of capitalist democracy; we MUST do things their way. We are persuaded, by extremely clever advertising and suave politicians that we really have a choice – but we don’t.
This is the true terrorism.
Last edited by Kysusha on Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total
GarryB- Posts : 39104
Points : 39600
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
A lot of people I've known are familiar with NWO or the Trilateral commission or the Illuminati and the such, but most people that have dismiss them as idiots.
That is what the people in the NWO etc want you to do...
Very simply there are people with enormous amounts of money. They didn't get that money by being nice or friendly and they use methods to keep that money for themselves because of course money is power and they will do anything to hold on to power.
If you think they are subject to the law look at OJ Simpson and in comparison he wasn't that rich and powerful.
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
Oh no, OJ just played the game and won. It's no secret the US judicial system isn't based around who's absolutely right, but who can put up their defense like a wall and not have it torn down by the prosecutor.
As for the rich having a plutonomy over us, that is simply false, they can fabricate as much lies as they want or they can manufacture whatever consent they need, but fact of the matter is, I still get my vote, and I still get to vote for whomever I like. They'd have to get through our heads first and they haven't been doing so well.
And those who just dismiss folks like me for dismissing folks like you are really not using a defense stronger than, "that's just what they want you to do", which usually doesn't hold much substance at all.
As for the rich having a plutonomy over us, that is simply false, they can fabricate as much lies as they want or they can manufacture whatever consent they need, but fact of the matter is, I still get my vote, and I still get to vote for whomever I like. They'd have to get through our heads first and they haven't been doing so well.
And those who just dismiss folks like me for dismissing folks like you are really not using a defense stronger than, "that's just what they want you to do", which usually doesn't hold much substance at all.
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
See:
Hijacking Catastrophe Fear & The Selling of American Empire
Hijacking Catastrophe Fear & The Selling of American Empire
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
What; do you really think your vote does? You have minority rule in America – just like most other “democracies” around the world. Even under MMP [like in New Zealand], we still get minority governments and governments that have to accommodate parties that failed to get over 5% of the vote, but still got a member elected and by chance, then controlled the “balance of power” between political factions in Parliament. We get legislation then enacted by less than 5% of the vote – some parties poling under 2% get legislation passed.
Even if you got the government you thought you elected – what on earth makes you think the government will do what you want? What makes you think that the government will keep it’s promises? Is Guantanamo Bay closed down yet?
Your vote is over-rated and you are feed this crap about democracy since the crib so that you will continue to support the only political system that can be successfully manipulated by money. That’s why the Zionist love it! By the manipulation of the press, the entertainment, your whole culture, you are living in a dream world if you think democracy works for the masses. Democracy works for a small select few and is perpetuated by the controlled masses.
You think they have to get into your head – they are there already!
Even if you got the government you thought you elected – what on earth makes you think the government will do what you want? What makes you think that the government will keep it’s promises? Is Guantanamo Bay closed down yet?
Your vote is over-rated and you are feed this crap about democracy since the crib so that you will continue to support the only political system that can be successfully manipulated by money. That’s why the Zionist love it! By the manipulation of the press, the entertainment, your whole culture, you are living in a dream world if you think democracy works for the masses. Democracy works for a small select few and is perpetuated by the controlled masses.
You think they have to get into your head – they are there already!
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
Democracy And Freedom – Fantasy!
Around the world, America trumpets democracy and freedom; as though only America has it. In truth, democracy and freedom are self delusional fantasies, based on a concept of utopia which simply does not exist. Yet, western propaganda continues to extol the virtues of the capitalist, democratic process.
No one is “free” in the terms that the West espouse, least of all America – the land of the free. No country in the world – in recorded history of the world – has had it’s people more controlled than modern America. Every transaction undertaken is electronically recorded, Social Security numbers recorded, surveillance cameras captured and political persuasion registered, all in massive electronic databases. Try entering America [I don’t] and you are treated as a terrorist, every personal detail recorded and yet, you are “free”. Terrorism [even though it is American made] is used as the vehicle to convince Americans to accept more and more draconian laws and invasions of civil liberties, on the pretence of protecting them while all the time, removing more personal freedoms. Yet yanks think they are free!
In New Zealand, the ruling National coalition Government passed legislation effectively making it illegal to discipline your child by smacking. A citizens initiated referendum was held in which 1.4 million people [more than the number that voted for the National Government in the elections] , voted to have the legislation repealed. The autocratic Prime Minister took a leaf out of Hitler’s book and said. “I don’t care what you want – I’ll tell you what you will get, the legislation will stay”. That is western democracy in what is regarded as one of the most democratic western nations in the world – and it happens like that all over the world.
We are totally deceived by the notion of democracy. Every three, or four years, we in the west think that we have the power to change governments – that by “people power” we will somehow effect change in our country. In Soviet times, a kolhoznik knew that he couldn’t change the government, but he could change who represented him in government AND he knew what the government would do because there was a 5 year, 10 year and 15 year plan. Under western democracy, we blissfully think that our vote somehow makes a government do what we want them to do – the western governments will do what the people who paid for the election campaign want. Don’t think that party donations are not without strings – after a party has won, the industrialist taps the government on the shoulder and says, “remember our donation- we, we want…”. So in the west, we have no idea what our governments will do – who is the more deceived – the kolhoznik or the western voter?
Western democracy is generally dominated by two parties – one slightly to the left of centre, the other slightly to the right of centre. At the end of the day, the differences between them are really quite minor, but each advocates major changes for the voter if one casts one’s vote for them. The reality is, that which ever party is elected, they will dance to the song of the industrialists and major policy will be set by the industrialist while the government is left to tinker with minor regional policies and to trumpet this tinkering as good policy.
Democracy, freedom, is simply an exercise in self delusion. An opportunity for the western governments to perpetuate a state whereby the rich few can subjugate and control the majority – that’s real freedom!
Around the world, America trumpets democracy and freedom; as though only America has it. In truth, democracy and freedom are self delusional fantasies, based on a concept of utopia which simply does not exist. Yet, western propaganda continues to extol the virtues of the capitalist, democratic process.
No one is “free” in the terms that the West espouse, least of all America – the land of the free. No country in the world – in recorded history of the world – has had it’s people more controlled than modern America. Every transaction undertaken is electronically recorded, Social Security numbers recorded, surveillance cameras captured and political persuasion registered, all in massive electronic databases. Try entering America [I don’t] and you are treated as a terrorist, every personal detail recorded and yet, you are “free”. Terrorism [even though it is American made] is used as the vehicle to convince Americans to accept more and more draconian laws and invasions of civil liberties, on the pretence of protecting them while all the time, removing more personal freedoms. Yet yanks think they are free!
In New Zealand, the ruling National coalition Government passed legislation effectively making it illegal to discipline your child by smacking. A citizens initiated referendum was held in which 1.4 million people [more than the number that voted for the National Government in the elections] , voted to have the legislation repealed. The autocratic Prime Minister took a leaf out of Hitler’s book and said. “I don’t care what you want – I’ll tell you what you will get, the legislation will stay”. That is western democracy in what is regarded as one of the most democratic western nations in the world – and it happens like that all over the world.
We are totally deceived by the notion of democracy. Every three, or four years, we in the west think that we have the power to change governments – that by “people power” we will somehow effect change in our country. In Soviet times, a kolhoznik knew that he couldn’t change the government, but he could change who represented him in government AND he knew what the government would do because there was a 5 year, 10 year and 15 year plan. Under western democracy, we blissfully think that our vote somehow makes a government do what we want them to do – the western governments will do what the people who paid for the election campaign want. Don’t think that party donations are not without strings – after a party has won, the industrialist taps the government on the shoulder and says, “remember our donation- we, we want…”. So in the west, we have no idea what our governments will do – who is the more deceived – the kolhoznik or the western voter?
Western democracy is generally dominated by two parties – one slightly to the left of centre, the other slightly to the right of centre. At the end of the day, the differences between them are really quite minor, but each advocates major changes for the voter if one casts one’s vote for them. The reality is, that which ever party is elected, they will dance to the song of the industrialists and major policy will be set by the industrialist while the government is left to tinker with minor regional policies and to trumpet this tinkering as good policy.
Democracy, freedom, is simply an exercise in self delusion. An opportunity for the western governments to perpetuate a state whereby the rich few can subjugate and control the majority – that’s real freedom!
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
Kysusha wrote:What; do you really think your vote does? You have minority rule in America – just like most other “democracies” around the world. Even under MMP [like in New Zealand], we still get minority governments and governments that have to accommodate parties that failed to get over 5% of the vote, but still got a member elected and by chance, then controlled the “balance of power” between political factions in Parliament. We get legislation then enacted by less than 5% of the vote – some parties poling under 2% get legislation passed.
Even if you got the government you thought you elected – what on earth makes you think the government will do what you want? What makes you think that the government will keep it’s promises? Is Guantanamo Bay closed down yet?
Your vote is over-rated and you are feed this crap about democracy since the crib so that you will continue to support the only political system that can be successfully manipulated by money. That’s why the Zionist love it! By the manipulation of the press, the entertainment, your whole culture, you are living in a dream world if you think democracy works for the masses. Democracy works for a small select few and is perpetuated by the controlled masses.
You think they have to get into your head – they are there already!
Uh no, at the end of the day, if no one voted in this country then their plans have failed, it's all about the community, your vote counts but a million votes count more. However, that million is made up with a series of individuals, they can sway their vote however way they want. In any case, it seems that you are driven by conspiracy, I do not know if that is true of you, but you are making it seem so. Fact of the matter is, I was raised in an apolitical family, all my parents did was go to work, make some money, and make me food. Everything I have learned I have learned on my own, so before you go waltzing around assuming I am this or I am that, you better look at your conspiracy theories and read it's name; a theory.
I still have a tin foil hat though
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
Ironsightsniper wrote: “so before you go waltzing around assuming I am this or I am that, you better look at your conspiracy theories and read it's name; a theory.”
Well, there you go again – labelling. Makes you feel smug being able to hide behind calling someone a conspiracy theorist; rather than accepting that I have a point you view which you will not debate: you find it easier to simply dismiss my concepts by ridicule. “He’s a kook – he believes in conspiracies!”.
Pretence of innocence on the basis of lack of reply also renders you susceptible to the presumption of guilt on account of acquiescence to a position you do not defend but attack the perceived antithesis. If you do not state your position [for fear of ridicule, for example], then you leave yourself open to objective assumptions!
You make the comment – “Uh no, at the end of the day, if no one voted in this country then their plans have failed,” Whose plans, what plans? So, do you subscribe to some conspiracy theory? Come on, make your mind up – you can’t sit on the fence and get a corrugated arse all your life. Time to come out of the closet.
The question of a vote counting was not a mathematical equation: it was a statement of reality! The list would be too long, if I tried to post all the broken promises of governments. Promises made to become elected but after election – WTF, we do whatever we are told to do and the people will have to wait until next election to change the governments; people have notoriously short memories. I asked you one simple question in my earlier post – Has Guantanamo Bay been closed? This was a promise made by Obummer for election!
Face it, your vote means squat! In the words of Hollywood: “You can’t handle the truth!”. Democracy is a pipe-dream. We are controlled, manipulated and used. Don’t believe me – how many weapons of mass destruction did they find in Iraq? Saddam was killed to stop him talking. Bush should have been strung up as a war criminal – but the victor always write the epilogue. It has been that way all through history.
As for myself and your assumption that I am some “conspiracy kook” – you know squat about me! Because I argue a point of view, does not of necessity mean that I am susceptible to all similar alternative ideas to the official line – do I accept aliens [as a conspiracy theory], no! Similarly, by arguing a point, I need not necessarily agree with it – I may just like debating.
Try thinking about the posts and question the subject matter – ask, is that really so? Adherence to an official line means that you are susceptible to continued brain-washing; you will blindly march off to the next issue Obummer has planned for you as the Zionist pull the strings.
When I was a student, there was a great protest song, sung by the Uglys in 1965 – “Wake Up My Mind”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f96bP1NIYPM I would commend this song to you – listen to the words.
Well, there you go again – labelling. Makes you feel smug being able to hide behind calling someone a conspiracy theorist; rather than accepting that I have a point you view which you will not debate: you find it easier to simply dismiss my concepts by ridicule. “He’s a kook – he believes in conspiracies!”.
Pretence of innocence on the basis of lack of reply also renders you susceptible to the presumption of guilt on account of acquiescence to a position you do not defend but attack the perceived antithesis. If you do not state your position [for fear of ridicule, for example], then you leave yourself open to objective assumptions!
You make the comment – “Uh no, at the end of the day, if no one voted in this country then their plans have failed,” Whose plans, what plans? So, do you subscribe to some conspiracy theory? Come on, make your mind up – you can’t sit on the fence and get a corrugated arse all your life. Time to come out of the closet.
The question of a vote counting was not a mathematical equation: it was a statement of reality! The list would be too long, if I tried to post all the broken promises of governments. Promises made to become elected but after election – WTF, we do whatever we are told to do and the people will have to wait until next election to change the governments; people have notoriously short memories. I asked you one simple question in my earlier post – Has Guantanamo Bay been closed? This was a promise made by Obummer for election!
Face it, your vote means squat! In the words of Hollywood: “You can’t handle the truth!”. Democracy is a pipe-dream. We are controlled, manipulated and used. Don’t believe me – how many weapons of mass destruction did they find in Iraq? Saddam was killed to stop him talking. Bush should have been strung up as a war criminal – but the victor always write the epilogue. It has been that way all through history.
As for myself and your assumption that I am some “conspiracy kook” – you know squat about me! Because I argue a point of view, does not of necessity mean that I am susceptible to all similar alternative ideas to the official line – do I accept aliens [as a conspiracy theory], no! Similarly, by arguing a point, I need not necessarily agree with it – I may just like debating.
Try thinking about the posts and question the subject matter – ask, is that really so? Adherence to an official line means that you are susceptible to continued brain-washing; you will blindly march off to the next issue Obummer has planned for you as the Zionist pull the strings.
When I was a student, there was a great protest song, sung by the Uglys in 1965 – “Wake Up My Mind”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f96bP1NIYPM I would commend this song to you – listen to the words.
Last edited by Kysusha on Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
But that is what you have already done, you assumed I was and didn't have any substance to back it up, other than a couple of sentences that could be misconstrued to fit your beliefs. In any case, you keep spewing the same crap such as, "Democracy is a pipe dream...we're all manipulated" but if you'd actually get to know the people you're talking about (Americans), you'd know that we're not complete idiots and we have heard of this. Fact of the matter is, half the people who vote don't give a second thought about the opposition, but rather they are voting for what they have set their minds to believe in for ever, those are the kind you should be preaching to, but keeping with your analogy, "I have drank from the river and I did not appreciate it".
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
Just an after-thought – you’re so quick to point out theories as being just that; theories, yet it seems America in general has a penchant for selective reasoning – choosing what they want to accept.
Let me give you an example; Darwinian Theory of Evolution - it is just that; a theory. Yet it is taught in American schools as fact!
It seems the administration chooses what theories it is prepared to push onto the public. In reality, if people could only see that this is yet another attack on Christianity by the Zionist, who have been trying to persecute Christ since Pontius Pilot; they may well see the insidious manoeuvrings of the Zionists in breaking down family order and decency, of the relentless move to destroy religion [Islam included], in their total distain for all others – other than Zionists.
Let me give you an example; Darwinian Theory of Evolution - it is just that; a theory. Yet it is taught in American schools as fact!
It seems the administration chooses what theories it is prepared to push onto the public. In reality, if people could only see that this is yet another attack on Christianity by the Zionist, who have been trying to persecute Christ since Pontius Pilot; they may well see the insidious manoeuvrings of the Zionists in breaking down family order and decency, of the relentless move to destroy religion [Islam included], in their total distain for all others – other than Zionists.
Kysusha- Posts : 191
Points : 201
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : New Zealand
Ironsightsniper:
Surprising as it may seem to you – I have friends who are American; I also have very good friends who are Jews. I know that there are many in America who do not like the manner in which they are manipulated and we are indebted to them for their devotion in exposing issues for others to investigate.
The sad part is, as one questions what is happening in America and by America – the usual labels bounce out; the most notable one – “ah, he’s Anti-American”. Like shouting racist at someone who speaks the truth about a race issue – an issue you don’t want to face up too. Shout racist at him and he has to defend his personal position and the question of the issue goes away!
I have raised issues – all of which you have side-stepped. Sorry, apart from one; the question of your vote doesn’t count. In that you tried to make it some mathematical equation and disregarded the intent of the statement; that regardless of who you vote in, you will get what they want, not what you thought you were voting for.
So, rather than a personal attack – try explaining why democracy is not a pipe-dream. Explain why your vote actually counts – how you get the government you wanted and why the government always does what it promises. I’d be most interested in your comments.
"I have drank from the river and I did not appreciate it". - you shouldn’t have drunk from the Tigris!~
Surprising as it may seem to you – I have friends who are American; I also have very good friends who are Jews. I know that there are many in America who do not like the manner in which they are manipulated and we are indebted to them for their devotion in exposing issues for others to investigate.
The sad part is, as one questions what is happening in America and by America – the usual labels bounce out; the most notable one – “ah, he’s Anti-American”. Like shouting racist at someone who speaks the truth about a race issue – an issue you don’t want to face up too. Shout racist at him and he has to defend his personal position and the question of the issue goes away!
I have raised issues – all of which you have side-stepped. Sorry, apart from one; the question of your vote doesn’t count. In that you tried to make it some mathematical equation and disregarded the intent of the statement; that regardless of who you vote in, you will get what they want, not what you thought you were voting for.
So, rather than a personal attack – try explaining why democracy is not a pipe-dream. Explain why your vote actually counts – how you get the government you wanted and why the government always does what it promises. I’d be most interested in your comments.
"I have drank from the river and I did not appreciate it". - you shouldn’t have drunk from the Tigris!~
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
The difference between Conspiracy theories and Scientific theories is that Conspiracy theories are based from paranoia, they usually come from over exaggerated events, and they are also used as excuses for profiteering. As for evolution, really, no one in my general area cares if this is an "attack on Christianity" by "Zionists" because we're the type that wouldn't mind seeing all Christians and all Zionists burn for the trouble they're causing us. Not to mention any religious extremists too.
The "issues" you have raised all regard Conspiracy theories, I have side stepped them, because as I already said, I don't have an opinion on them. And again, my vote counts simply because everytime I cast a ballot, that's +1 to whomever I checked on the ballot. That is enough for me and if my peers are chose not my side then so be it, I could care less about them as they are the collective and I am but the individual.
As for the Government doing what they promise, yeah, try finding any society with that, Government will always try to compromise, they will always stray a bit to the left or a bit to the right, when we go to election, we don't vote for who's going to run the country best, but rather who's not going to fuck it up as much as the other guy.
The "issues" you have raised all regard Conspiracy theories, I have side stepped them, because as I already said, I don't have an opinion on them. And again, my vote counts simply because everytime I cast a ballot, that's +1 to whomever I checked on the ballot. That is enough for me and if my peers are chose not my side then so be it, I could care less about them as they are the collective and I am but the individual.
As for the Government doing what they promise, yeah, try finding any society with that, Government will always try to compromise, they will always stray a bit to the left or a bit to the right, when we go to election, we don't vote for who's going to run the country best, but rather who's not going to fuck it up as much as the other guy.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
Points : 634
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 34
Location : Pakistan
keep them coming...Katyusha 
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