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JohninMKHow big an assembly gets built to be shipped to India? Does this keep the Su-30 sub assembly and subcontractor lines humming without tying up the main production line?miketheterrible wrote:hoom wrote:More about India Su-30MKI order https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3518648.html
Basically says its replacement for older planes going out of service which were supposed to be replaced by Rafale & Tejas which haven't emerged in sufficient numbers.
Will bring them up to 18 squadrons.
Also helpfully keeps factory busy while waiting on MS-21 production to ramp up.
Those will be assembled in the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited company.
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Su-30 for Russian Air Force
JohninMK- Posts : 14750
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miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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Barely. HAL and subcontractors in India make up close to 80% of the aircrafts build. So maybe 20% of parts come from Russia esides the needed raw materials to build the aircraft.
George1- Posts : 18327
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Russian defense industry to ‘breathe new life’ into Su-30SM fighter jet
The heavily upgraded Su-30SM plane may open a new niche for Russia in India, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov said
IRKUTSK, February 26. /TASS/. The Sukhoi Su-30SM fighter jet will be standardized with the generation 4++ Su-35 fighter by its onboard equipment and armament to cut its cost price and breathe a new life into the plane, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told journalists on Tuesday.
"After completing the work on the Su-30SM upgrade, changing the layout of the onboard radio-electronic equipment to make the Su-35 and the Su-30SM more standardized and thus cut the cost price, and standardizing the airborne weapon systems, this may breathe a new life into the plane," the vice-premier said.
The heavily upgraded Su-30SM plane may open a new niche for Russia in India, he noted.
"Considering that there are about 200 such planes in India [the Su-30MKI as the baseline version of the Su-30SM], an opportunity will probably open for modernizing this fleet to prolong its service life," the vice-premier explained.
More:
http://tass.com/defense/1046519
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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I would like to know exactly what. I mean, onboard computers, HUD, etc. But most important would be radar, engines and APU. Rest is mostly stuff used from France in the Indian variant. So why would they purchase such an upgrade? Unless they upgraded the bars radar (more importantly the APU so it can output greater than 7KW of power) to drastically improve accuracy, search and track, sensitivity, etc.
Isos- Posts : 11307
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What I understand is they will give it Irbis E. Or a if they are smart enough give it Biyelka and standardize them with su-57...
Btw he is talking about indian modernization but as far as I know they really want AESA for their sukhois. So again if they are smart they should ask indian to give the money for designing an AESA radar for su-30 and make a domestic variant like pantsir and emirats.
Btw he is talking about indian modernization but as far as I know they really want AESA for their sukhois. So again if they are smart they should ask indian to give the money for designing an AESA radar for su-30 and make a domestic variant like pantsir and emirats.
GarryB- Posts : 39071
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If India are so dead set on AESA radar for their aircraft why not enter into a joint venture with a Russian company and develop them together... they they can own the end result and mass produce it everywhere.
Radar is a bit like night vision equipment like thermal imagers... traditionally there are platforms that have thermal sights like tanks, but when you make your own you can start expanding their use to ATGM teams and snipers and even soldiers rifles and MANPADS teams and heavy weapon operators to make their use at night or in smoke and dusty conditions more effective... the more you make the more all weather and day and night capable your forces become.
It will be the same with radar... these days tank APS systems have radar and ground radar is used in small bases to detect threats etc and of course adding it to MANPADs and other things increases their ability to operate 24/7 and in bad weather or dust or smoke...
And of course obviously on ships of all sizes and aircraft small radar antenna are useful too...
The Soviets even had a small portable radar that could be mounted on a heavy machine gun or automatic grenade launcher for blind firing in a war zone... anyone who approaches from this direction is the enemy and will be fired upon at distances of 1-2km or more... effective even in a snow storm...
Radar is a bit like night vision equipment like thermal imagers... traditionally there are platforms that have thermal sights like tanks, but when you make your own you can start expanding their use to ATGM teams and snipers and even soldiers rifles and MANPADS teams and heavy weapon operators to make their use at night or in smoke and dusty conditions more effective... the more you make the more all weather and day and night capable your forces become.
It will be the same with radar... these days tank APS systems have radar and ground radar is used in small bases to detect threats etc and of course adding it to MANPADs and other things increases their ability to operate 24/7 and in bad weather or dust or smoke...
And of course obviously on ships of all sizes and aircraft small radar antenna are useful too...
The Soviets even had a small portable radar that could be mounted on a heavy machine gun or automatic grenade launcher for blind firing in a war zone... anyone who approaches from this direction is the enemy and will be fired upon at distances of 1-2km or more... effective even in a snow storm...
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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Isos wrote:What I understand is they will give it Irbis E. Or a if they are smart enough give it Biyelka and standardize them with su-57...
Btw he is talking about indian modernization but as far as I know they really want AESA for their sukhois. So again if they are smart they should ask indian to give the money for designing an AESA radar for su-30 and make a domestic variant like pantsir and emirats.
Pretty sure N036 can fit currently to both Su-30 and 35 due to the dimesons matching. N036 is an AESA variant of Irbis which Irbis is a hybrid variant of Bars. Now modern Bars radar is more hybrid than early adoption with much better accuracy and longer track/scan ranges. I can't imagine there is much more they can add to it. If they make an AESA variant of Bars, I don't know exactly the gain will be. Chances are, it will end up having similar range as modified bars has. May be able to track more targets, may have additional features. But in today's conflicts, radar is becoming obselete as sensor systems picks up even LPI rather easily and triangulate positions. Hell, anti radiation systems are becoming very popular in order to combat radar systems. The expense of changing the radar vs benefit would be silly imo. N036 is good and all, but Irbis is about as good and cheaper
medo- Posts : 4342
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Modernized Su-30SM Will have the same 117S engines as Su-35, so they could use either Irbis or N036 radar. Anyway, Irbis would be more than good enough for Su-30SM. It is still powerfull radar with excellent capabilities and range.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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medo wrote:Modernized Su-30SM Will have the same 117S engines as Su-35, so they could use either Irbis or N036 radar. Anyway, Irbis would be more than good enough for Su-30SM. It is still powerfull radar with excellent capabilities and range.
It is still the most powerful radar for fighter jets so far. I doubt that an AESA would benefit anything for it.
Isos- Posts : 11307
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miketheterrible wrote:medo wrote:Modernized Su-30SM Will have the same 117S engines as Su-35, so they could use either Irbis or N036 radar. Anyway, Irbis would be more than good enough for Su-30SM. It is still powerfull radar with excellent capabilities and range.
It is still the most powerful radar for fighter jets so far. I doubt that an AESA would benefit anything for it.
Tomorrow Indians will provide answer to that as it's going very hot above the border.
Hole- Posts : 10781
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They still using MiG-21´s in that area! 
Isos- Posts : 11307
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Hole wrote:They still using MiG-21´s in that area!
Wrong thred !! But yeah they are or should i say they were because since the lesson from this morning they won't anymore.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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MiG-21 bis is actually a good jet still with capabilities to compete. If what is said true (MiG-21 taking down the Pak F-16) then the loss of the MiG-21 may have more to do with lack of support from other jets.
Isos- Posts : 11307
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miketheterrible wrote:MiG-21 bis is actually a good jet still with capabilities to compete. If what is said true (MiG-21 taking down the Pak F-16) then the loss of the MiG-21 may have more to do with lack of support from other jets.
There is still no evidence about the f-16.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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It crashed in Pakistan territory. In other words, Pakistan won't release any evidence. There is no reason not to believe India side since Pakistan has a troubled history with lying
George1- Posts : 18327
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Decision for restoration of 5 Su-30 fighters (Su-27PU) that completed for the military in 1994-1996.
From the end of 2016 to the end of 2017 all five cars were delivered to the 275th ARZ in Krasnodar. Now the repair of the first of them with the tail number "68 red" (registration number RF-92223, serial number 03-03, the former "50 blue") is completed, while, as can be judged, the aircraft are not subjected to any major modernization .
Apparently, judging by the preservation of Lipetsk board numbers, all five repaired Su-30 (Su-27PU) airplanes will continue to be operated as part of the 4th State Training Center for Aviation Personnel and Military Trials in Lipetsk. It can be assumed that their restoration is associated with a shortage of combat training "sparks" in the VKS, including in the Lipetsk center. It is not by chance that a lot of older Su-27UB aircraft have been being repaired recently.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3586528.html
From the end of 2016 to the end of 2017 all five cars were delivered to the 275th ARZ in Krasnodar. Now the repair of the first of them with the tail number "68 red" (registration number RF-92223, serial number 03-03, the former "50 blue") is completed, while, as can be judged, the aircraft are not subjected to any major modernization .
Apparently, judging by the preservation of Lipetsk board numbers, all five repaired Su-30 (Su-27PU) airplanes will continue to be operated as part of the 4th State Training Center for Aviation Personnel and Military Trials in Lipetsk. It can be assumed that their restoration is associated with a shortage of combat training "sparks" in the VKS, including in the Lipetsk center. It is not by chance that a lot of older Su-27UB aircraft have been being repaired recently.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3586528.html
medo- Posts : 4342
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The first of those old Su-30 b/n 68 is now flying in new colors. They all are now in process of overhauling to fly again. There is a good question, if RuAF will use them in long term. Su-35 have Su-30SM as twin seater, Su-27SM/SM3 have Su-30M2 as twin seater and older Su-27 are in the process of replacing with more modern jets.
We must not forget, that Irkut still have 6 ex-Indian Su-30 jets in Baranovichi in Belarus. Those 6 plus 5 from RuAF and 1 additional from Irkut, could form another squadron of 12 jets to sell. They could easily be upgraded to Su-30KN standard as those for Angola. A lot will depend on Ukrainian elections as well. With nazis taking power, Russia could officially recognize LDNR and donate those planes to them. Su-30KN is still better than anything Ukraine have in their stock.
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medo likes this post
JohninMK- Posts : 14750
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Must take some skill. Pilot - Anatoly Kvochur
dino00- Posts : 1677
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Source: Russian air base in Armenia will be re-equipped on Su-30SM
It is planned to deliver 18 cars in total.
“The re-equipment of the Su-30SM airbase is scheduled to begin next year. Airplanes will be delivered in two stages - in 2020–2021. It is planned to replace all 18 MiG-29s with the Su-30SM air base pilots, - Said the source agency.
According to him, the aircraft fleet is planned to be updated in two stages, in order not to stop the implementation of the tasks by the air base, as the flight crew will have to undergo a retraining program for the new car. “When the planes start arriving, part of the flight crews will be sent to retraining at the Lipetsk aviation center, and some
will continue to serve at the Erebuni airbase,” the source said.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6364084
It is planned to deliver 18 cars in total.
“The re-equipment of the Su-30SM airbase is scheduled to begin next year. Airplanes will be delivered in two stages - in 2020–2021. It is planned to replace all 18 MiG-29s with the Su-30SM air base pilots, - Said the source agency.
According to him, the aircraft fleet is planned to be updated in two stages, in order not to stop the implementation of the tasks by the air base, as the flight crew will have to undergo a retraining program for the new car. “When the planes start arriving, part of the flight crews will be sent to retraining at the Lipetsk aviation center, and some
will continue to serve at the Erebuni airbase,” the source said.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6364084
AMCXXL- Posts : 985
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dino00 wrote:Source: Russian air base in Armenia will be re-equipped on Su-30SM
It is planned to deliver 18 cars in total.
“The re-equipment of the Su-30SM airbase is scheduled to begin next year. Airplanes will be delivered in two stages - in 2020–2021. It is planned to replace all 18 MiG-29s with the Su-30SM air base pilots, - Said the source agency.
According to him, the aircraft fleet is planned to be updated in two stages, in order not to stop the implementation of the tasks by the air base, as the flight crew will have to undergo a retraining program for the new car. “When the planes start arriving, part of the flight crews will be sent to retraining at the Lipetsk aviation center, and some
will continue to serve at the Erebuni airbase,” the source said.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6364084
Completely logical
Thus, the total substitution of the MiG-29 by Su-30SM in the VKS will be complete (except in the Kubinka acrobatics team that will have MiG-35)
This raises the amount of Su-30SM needed to about 130 in the VKS, plus about another hundred for the Navy
Isos- Posts : 11307
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This raises the amount of Su-30SM needed to about 130 in the VKS, plus about another hundred for the Navy
It also raises some questions like does mig-29/35 has any future in russia and if yes who will fly them since mig-29 pilots are converted to sukhois.
George1- Posts : 18327
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Isos wrote:
This raises the amount of Su-30SM needed to about 130 in the VKS, plus about another hundred for the Navy
It also raises some questions like does mig-29/35 has any future in russia and if yes who will fly them since mig-29 pilots are converted to sukhois.
Exactly. It seems that Russian Air Force preders Su-30SM in multi-role role than a light/medium fighter like MiG-35
GarryB- Posts : 39071
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Once they have started proper production of the MiG-35 then we will see what they actually want... remember figures released regarding performance of the F-35 and Su-35 and MiG-35 don't show an enormous gap in capability between the two Russian types...
I personally find it amusing to see the people state the MiGs are smaller and lighter and therefore not as useful as the bigger Sukhois, yet when it comes to aircraft carriers the reverse seems to be their mantra...
Not every ship in the Russian Navy needs to be a 20K ton cruiser or 40-50 ton multi hulled carrier, but just as logical not every Russian fighter needs extreme flight range and enormous size.
Might come as a shock to some but having 3,000km radius fighters can lead to fewer airbases placed further apart which results in poor coverage because Flankers are not twice as fast as Fulcrums so they might be able to fly over twice the distance they wont actually be able to protect twice the area...
I personally find it amusing to see the people state the MiGs are smaller and lighter and therefore not as useful as the bigger Sukhois, yet when it comes to aircraft carriers the reverse seems to be their mantra...
Not every ship in the Russian Navy needs to be a 20K ton cruiser or 40-50 ton multi hulled carrier, but just as logical not every Russian fighter needs extreme flight range and enormous size.
Might come as a shock to some but having 3,000km radius fighters can lead to fewer airbases placed further apart which results in poor coverage because Flankers are not twice as fast as Fulcrums so they might be able to fly over twice the distance they wont actually be able to protect twice the area...
dino00- Posts : 1677
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A new version of the Su-30SM fighter is being created in Russia
The upgraded Su-30SMD will receive a modern engine from the Su-35
https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=512637&lang=RU
Russia will have 3 great suckhoi.
The AL-41F-1C should get cheaper.
The upgraded Su-30SMD will receive a modern engine from the Su-35
Moscow. July 13. INTERFAX - A new modification of the multi-purpose Su-30SM fighter is being developed in Russia, a source in the aviation industry told Interfax.
"The Sukhoi OKB has started development work (OCD) to create a modernized fighter under the code Su-30SMD. This modification will receive the most modern engine AL-41F-1C (product 117C), which is now installed on production Su-35 aircraft", - said the agency interlocutor.
According to him, these works are carried out jointly with the Irkut Corporation, which mass-produced Su-30SM fighters.
“The test flights of the Su-30SMD with the new engine should take place in 2020. According to the results of the implementation of the RCD, accordingly, a decision will be made whether to equip all combat fighters of this type with this engine,” the agency source said.
"The Sukhoi OKB has started development work (OCD) to create a modernized fighter under the code Su-30SMD. This modification will receive the most modern engine AL-41F-1C (product 117C), which is now installed on production Su-35 aircraft", - said the agency interlocutor.
According to him, these works are carried out jointly with the Irkut Corporation, which mass-produced Su-30SM fighters.
“The test flights of the Su-30SMD with the new engine should take place in 2020. According to the results of the implementation of the RCD, accordingly, a decision will be made whether to equip all combat fighters of this type with this engine,” the agency source said.
https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=512637&lang=RU
Russia will have 3 great suckhoi.
The AL-41F-1C should get cheaper.
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