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Russia and Turkey

GarryB

GarryB: Posts : 40004
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Post n°46

Re: Russia and Turkey

GarryB Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:44 am

Let me ask then what Russia is supposed to do with situation with Syria and Iraq? remember that Saudis and Turks go for war in 7miles boots.

Only a stable country can clean house of ISIS elements.

So step one in Syria is to get the various groups who are worth cooperating with together to cooperate.

That means the Syrian Army, the Kurds, and the anti assad forces need to get together and stop fighting each other with the agreement that when ISIS is fucked that first of all everyone will lay down their weapons and then solve the problems at the ballot box and through politics.

Violence is no way to create a country... Israel was created in violence and the violence continues because neither side listens and uses violence to get their way or to protest not getting their way.

In Iraq Russia can provide weapons and ammo and give advice and support. At any stage if Iraq asks for more then Russia will likely oblige but until they ask they should not make presumptions... at the end of the day it is up to Syria and Iraq to solve some serious fundamental problems that allowed ISIS to grow so strong in the first place...

BTRfan

BTRfan: Posts : 344
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Post n°47

Re: Russia and Turkey

BTRfan Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:53 pm

GarryB wrote:

Let me ask then what Russia is supposed to do with situation with Syria and Iraq? remember that Saudis and Turks go for war in 7miles boots.

Only a stable country can clean house of ISIS elements.

So step one in Syria is to get the various groups who are worth cooperating with together to cooperate.

That means the Syrian Army, the Kurds, and the anti assad forces need to get together and stop fighting each other with the agreement that when ISIS is fucked that first of all everyone will lay down their weapons and then solve the problems at the ballot box and through politics.

Violence is no way to create a country... Israel was created in violence and the violence continues because neither side listens and uses violence to get their way or to protest not getting their way.

In Iraq Russia can provide weapons and ammo and give advice and support. At any stage if Iraq asks for more then Russia will likely oblige but until they ask they should not make presumptions... at the end of the day it is up to Syria and Iraq to solve some serious fundamental problems that allowed ISIS to grow so strong in the first place...

Syria is not in a position to offer the Kurds independence, it will destabilize the entire region. They should be offered regional autonomy within the framework of a unified Syria.

GarryB

GarryB: Posts : 40004
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Post n°48

Re: Russia and Turkey

GarryB Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:34 pm

I never said offer the Kurds full independence.

It really wont work if everyone gets exactly what they want because there are too many conflicting positions.

What I am suggesting is that to start with the Kurds might get greater autonomy in their region, but it would have to include agreements not to agitate in other regions... ie they can't be a base in kurdish syria for terrorist attacks in other kurdish regions like turkey and Iran and Iraq.

At the end of the day the only reason the lines on the map of the middle east are where they are is because that divided up the known and suspected oil reserves in the immediate post WWI period when British and French bureaucrats were dividing the spoils of war.

At the end of the day Syria is going to have to give something up to get back the peace and stability they want... They might be able to offer the Kurds a situation where the Kurds are happy and wont demand full independence... but that will come at the negotiating table... not from the barrel of a gun.

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°49

Re: Russia and Turkey

GunshipDemocracy Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:37 pm

GarryB wrote:I never said offer the Kurds full independence.

It really wont work if everyone gets exactly what they want because there are too many conflicting positions.

What I am suggesting is that to start with the Kurds might get greater autonomy in their region, but it would have to include agreements not to agitate in other regions... ie they can't be a base in kurdish syria for terrorist attacks in other kurdish regions like turkey and Iran and Iraq.

With Iran and Iraq agreed but in Turkey is good for Russia. Same way Turkey finances terrorists among Tatars and in Caucasus.

GarryB wrote:
At the end of the day the only reason the lines on the map of the middle east are where they are is because that divided up the known and suspected oil reserves in the immediate post WWI period when British and French bureaucrats were dividing the spoils of war.

At the end of the day Syria is going to have to give something up to get back the peace and stability they want... They might be able to offer the Kurds a situation where the Kurds are happy and wont demand full independence... but that will come at the negotiating table... not from the barrel of a gun.

besides Kurds and Assad supporters you got some hard islamists (FSA) and streams of money from Saudis/Qataris. I believe also some Syrian land might be under all-lies occupation after collapse of igil. I mean will be freed for democracy.

GarryB

GarryB: Posts : 40004
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Post n°50

Re: Russia and Turkey

GarryB Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:18 am

If the proturkish elements want to oppose Russia and Assad that just means no place at the table for them.

It just adds them to the ISIS list of allies to be destroyed.

All evidence from the dead bodies of the terrorists and their computers should be used in the UN to punish any country that supported terrorism in Syria... those responsible should be exposed even if they are above the law and are protected... at least shame them and list all their sources of income... I for one wont buy products from a company owned by someone selling vehicles to ISIS or gains from illegal oil exports etc.

BTRfan

BTRfan: Posts : 344
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Post n°51

Re: Russia and Turkey

BTRfan Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:56 pm

GarryB wrote:I never said offer the Kurds full independence.

It really wont work if everyone gets exactly what they want because there are too many conflicting positions.

What I am suggesting is that to start with the Kurds might get greater autonomy in their region, but it would have to include agreements not to agitate in other regions... ie they can't be a base in kurdish syria for terrorist attacks in other kurdish regions like turkey and Iran and Iraq.

At the end of the day the only reason the lines on the map of the middle east are where they are is because that divided up the known and suspected oil reserves in the immediate post WWI period when British and French bureaucrats were dividing the spoils of war.

At the end of the day Syria is going to have to give something up to get back the peace and stability they want... They might be able to offer the Kurds a situation where the Kurds are happy and wont demand full independence... but that will come at the negotiating table... not from the barrel of a gun.

Of course, I never said you said it and I did not mean to imply it... I was merely responding to the point about Syria working with the Kurds, which it will be hard to do because the Kurds will probably initially demand full independence and Syria will have to negotiate to get them to accept less than that.

JohninMK

JohninMK: Posts : 15356
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Post n°52

Re: Russia and Turkey

JohninMK Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:04 pm

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russian inspectors were scheduled to perform an observation flight on board the An-30B plane over the Turkish territory within the framework of the Open Skies Treaty on February 1-5.

"The itinerary included the observation of areas adjacent to the Turkish border with Syria, as well as airfields that host NATO warplanes. However, after the arrival of the Russian mission to Turkey and the announcement of the desired itinerary, the Turkish military officials refused to allow the inspection flight citing an order from the Turkish Foreign Ministry," head of the ministry’s National Nuclear Risk Reduction Center Sergey Ryzhkov said in a statement.

Ryzhkov called the Turkish move "a dangerous precedent of uncontrolled military activity carried out by a member of the Open Skies Treaty.

"We are not going to leave this violation of the treaty by Turkey without proper attention and adequate response," the official stressed.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160203/1034165098/turkey-russia-air-violation.html#ixzz3z8Yq7b8M

George1

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Post n°53

Re: Russia and Turkey

George1 Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:28 am

Russia expects international reaction to Turkey’s violation of Open Skies Treaty

More:
http://tass.ru/en/politics/854677

George1

George1: Posts : 18456
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Post n°54

Re: Russia and Turkey

George1 Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:55 am

Russian lawmakers suggest annulling 1921 treaty of friendship with Turkey

We should consider a possibility of legal review of all Russian-Turkish agreements that are unfavorable for our country and its allies, member of Russia’s State Duma Sergei Obukhov said

MOSCOW, February 8. /TASS/. Members of Russia’s State Duma (lower house of parliament) Valery Rashkin and Sergei Obukhov (Communist Party faction) have sent a letter to the country’s leadership and the Foreign Ministry proposing to denounce the Moscow Treaty of Friendship and Brotherhood signed On March 16, 1921, by the government of Soviet Russia (RSFSR) and the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, writes Russia’s Izvestia daily which has obtained the text of the letter.

"We should consider a possibility of legal review of all Russian-Turkish agreements that are unfavorable for our country and its allies. Ankara must understand what the escalation of the conflict could be fraught with for it. Only this can bring it to earth and prevent it from carrying out new provocations," Obukhov told Izvestia.

The initiative has been supported by the Just Russia faction. According to State Duma member Oleg Pakholkov, the Moscow treaty was signed to the detriment of Russia’s interests.

Obukhov noted that "two of the three Transcaucasian republics - Georgia and Armenia - did not recognize the terms of the treaty considering it unfair." "One should realize that in 1921 the Bolshevik (Soviet) government was literally hanging by a single thread: the foreign intervention and civil war continued. Under those circumstances Soviet Russia could not speak from a position of strength and impose more favorable terms of the treaty on Turkey," the parliamentarian said.

The newspaper notes that under the treaty "the former Kars region and the southern part of the former Batumi region that were part of the Russian Empire since 1878 as well as former Surmalin district of Erivan Governorate that was part of the Russian Empire since 1828 with Mount Ararat were ceded to Turkey."

More:
http://tass.ru/en/politics/855155

max steel

max steel: Posts : 2930
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Post n°55

Re: Russia and Turkey

max steel Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:17 pm

Russia’s Gazprom says exports to Turkey up 3.4 pct in January

Russian gas giant Gazprom said on Feb. 2 its gas exports to Turkey increased by 3.4 percent in January from the same month a year earlier to 2.82 billion cubic meters (bcm), said Chairman of the company’s management committee Alexey Miller on Feb. 2, adding that the country is still Gazprom’s second-biggest customer now.

“The demand for Russian gas is growing consistently on the key markets, including Turkey. According to the latest update, in January 2016 Gazprom’s supplies to the country increased by 3.4 percent compared with the same period in 2015 to 2.82 bcm. It should be pointed out that Turkey is still number two among biggest buyers of Russian gas. According to preliminary estimates, more than 27 bcm of gas has been supplied to Turkey in 2015,” he said, as quoted by TASS News Agency.

higurashihougi

higurashihougi: Posts : 3244
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Post n°56

Tourism in/related to Russia

higurashihougi Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:56 am

Yes, if only, if only they hadn't gone crazy in an uncontrolled instant...

https://www.rt.com/business/333257-turkey-russian-tourists-return/

Turkish PM Ahmed Davutoglu said the government expects Russian tourists to come despite tensions between Ankara and Moscow, as shrinkage in the sector was “unexpected.” Russia earlier urged tourists not to visit Turkey, citing security concerns.

JohninMK

JohninMK: Posts : 15356
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Post n°57

Re: Russia and Turkey

JohninMK Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:08 pm

Nothing to do with Syria. This is commercial 'keep to the contract' negotiations.

The already strained relations between Moscow and Ankara have taken a turn for the worse. Gazprom has cut gas supplies by nearly a quarter after failing to reach an agreement with Turkish importers on discounts for Russian natural gas. Delivery is down 23 percent, compared to the same period last year, Interfax reports, quoting data from Bulgarian gas operator Bulgartransgaz that processes about 50 percent of Russian gas going to Turkey.

According to the news agency sources, the reduction is linked to a price dispute between Gazprom and Turkey's private gas importers. Last year, Gazprom gave the importers a 10.25 percent discount, but is now doing away with it as energy prices have dropped significantly.

Business daily Kommersant’s sources say Gazprom stopped giving the discount at the beginning of the year. For January deliveries, Turkish companies had to pay at a higher price, but on the payment date of February 21 they only paid the discounted price. As a result, Gazprom has cut the volume delivered by the size of the underpayment.

Enerco Enerji, Bosphorus Gaz, Avrasya Gaz, Shell, Bati Hatti and Kibar Enerji are the importers affected. Overall, they import 10 billion cubic meters of Russian gas per year. Kommersant’s sources in the companies say the cancellation of the discount hurts their business, as they have signed contracts with clients based on the discount gas price. From the 1st to the 24th of February Gazprom under-delivered 117 million cubic meters worth $30 million, the newspaper’s calculations say. Kommersant added that Turkey could fine the Russian gas monopoly $2.5 million for not fulfilling its obligations.

The source in Gazprom claimed the reduction in supply will not affect supply of the Turkish market, "especially because Botas does not reach its contractual volumes." State-owned Botas imports about 17 billion cubic meters of Russian gas per year. In 2015, it didn’t get a discount from Gazprom due to the failure of the Turkish Stream negotiations and is now suing Gazprom.

https://www.rt.com/business/333732-russia-gazprom-turkey-gas/

Resistance

Resistance: Posts : 318
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Join date : 2016-06-15

Post n°58

Russia Turkey relations

Resistance Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:16 pm

looks like it's back to normal before the shootdown

https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/4qf9iy/hassan_ridha_on_twitter_russia_has_begun_talks_to/

max steel

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Post n°59

Re: Russia and Turkey

max steel Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:31 pm

Turkey to open Incirlik base to Russia

Turkey may open its Incirlik airbase to Russia, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said, during an interview to TRT channel.

One area of cooperation with Russia is the fight against the Islamic State group in Syria, Cavusoglu said.

“We’ll cooperate with everybody against the militant group,” the Foreign Minister noted.

“We opened our Incirlik base to those who wanted to actively join the fight against IS. Why shouldn’t we collaborate with Russia in this issue?”

Turkey downed a Russian warplane near the Syria border on Nov. 24, 2015, resulting in a seven-month diplomatic freeze. President Erdogan helped thaw relations by sending a letter to Putin expressing his deep sorrow over the incident.

GunshipDemocracy

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Post n°60

Re: Russia and Turkey

GunshipDemocracy Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:50 pm

higurashihougi wrote:Yes, if only, if only they hadn't gone crazy in an uncontrolled instant...

https://www.rt.com/business/333257-turkey-russian-tourists-return/

Turkish PM Ahmed Davutoglu said the government expects Russian tourists to come despite tensions between Ankara and Moscow, as shrinkage in the sector was “unexpected.” Russia earlier urged tourists not to visit Turkey, citing security concerns.

there´s no "craziness" in eopolitics probably this was pindos provocation, what if Erdogan even did not know and this was done behing his back? This warming up and gas talks is clear move against USA. Who is doing everything to aggravate situation? who nas been fighting with Russia gas pipelines? who is starting war with Russia?

The Ottoman

The Ottoman: Posts : 287
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Post n°61

Re: Russia and Turkey

The Ottoman Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:57 am

Turkey and Russia are COMING!

AND THIS TIME NO ONE CAN STOP THEM!

Russia is Turkey’s ‘eternal neighbor’: Turkish PM - http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russia-is-turkeys-eternal-friend-turkish-pm.aspx?pageID=238&nID=101229&NewsCatID=510

'Assad the Enemy' to 'Assad the Brother': Ankara Prepares Shift in Strategy - http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160704/1042428007/turkey-syria-mending-relations-prospects.html?

Turkish MFA: Putin and Erdogan could meet before G-20 Summit in China - http://uawire.org/news/turkish-mfa-putin-and-erdogan-could-meet-before-g-20-summit-in-china?

The Ottoman

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Post n°62

Erdogan, Putin due to meet in person over thawing of bilateral ties

The Ottoman Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Erdogan, Putin due to meet in person over thawing of bilateral ties

Source: Xinhua 2016-07-17 22:09:33

ANKARA, July 17 (Xinhua) -- Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan will meet with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin in the first week of August, Anadolu Agency reported Sunday.

It will be the first face-to-face meeting between Erdogan and Putin since Turkish warplanes downed a Russian jet last November.

The move came after a telephone call from Putin, according to the report.

The Russian president said he stood by Turkey's elected government and offered his condolences over the victims of Friday night's coup attempt.

Putin stressed there should not be anti-constitutional acts of violence, while wishing for restoring stability in the country.

In the telephone conversation, he also urged Turkey to ensure the safety of Russian tourists in the country.

Erdogan asserted that Turkey would take all the necessary measures, reported Daily News.

TurkMaster

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Post n°63

Re: Russia and Turkey

TurkMaster Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:51 am

turkey blow

Russia attack jet turkish pilot abd agent...

Fetullah Gülen community

Turkey to Russia breaking...

Fuck America

Turkey exit NATO....

Turkiye enter Shangay 5

GunshipDemocracy

GunshipDemocracy: Posts : 6103
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Post n°64

Re: Russia and Turkey

GunshipDemocracy Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:00 am

TurkMaster wrote:turkey blow

Russia attack jet turkish pilot abd agent...

Fetullah Gülen community

Turkey to Russia breaking...

Fuck America

Turkey exit NATO....

Turkiye enter Shangay 5

but you´re not Mustafa ain´t ya? Smile

Well it would be nice but there is no love in intl relations but business. It would be nice to align Russian and Turkish geopolitical interests though. Same as Russians achieved with China.

TurkMaster

TurkMaster: Posts : 2
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Post n°65

Re: Russia and Turkey

TurkMaster Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:09 am

Target : Russian & Turk relations disrupt.

Turk Pilot abd agent Fetullah Gulen man.

Knowing Russian jet shot down.

ABd agent Turk Pilot. He was arrested to be executed

insallah Turkiye exit Nato ... Enter Shangay 5

JohninMK

JohninMK: Posts : 15356
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Post n°66

Re: Russia and Turkey

JohninMK Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 am

If you want to read chapter and verse on what a damp squib the Putin/Erdogan meeting was you could do no better than pop over to http://johnhelmer.net/?p=16253

Basically virtually nothing was achieved in what was basically a 3 hour meeting and Erdogan seems as belligerent as normal.

KoTeMoRe

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Post n°67

Re: Russia and Turkey

KoTeMoRe Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:49 am

JohninMK wrote:If you want to read chapter and verse on what a damp squib the Putin/Erdogan meeting was you could do no better than pop over to http://johnhelmer.net/?p=16253

Basically virtually nothing was achieved in what was basically a 3 hour meeting and Erdogan seems as belligerent as normal.

A case of too little, too late.

JohninMK

JohninMK: Posts : 15356
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Post n°68

Re: Russia and Turkey

JohninMK Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:07 am

Just look at Putin's expression

Russia and Turkey - Page 3 Proxy

PapaDragon

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Post n°69

Re: Russia and Turkey

PapaDragon Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:23 am

JohninMK wrote:Just look at Putin's expression
......................

What am I looking for? He looks like his usual cyborg self.

The Ottoman

The Ottoman: Posts : 287
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Post n°70

Re: Russia and Turkey

The Ottoman Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:01 pm

JohninMK wrote:If you want to read chapter and verse on what a damp squib the Putin/Erdogan meeting was you could do no better than pop over to http://johnhelmer.net/?p=16253

Basically virtually nothing was achieved in what was basically a 3 hour meeting and Erdogan seems as belligerent as normal.

What a bullshit.

The whole world will change with this meeting, they achieved a lot of things. It's a turnpoint in history.

Just look at what the international media wrote about it, maybe 1 milion articles about this meeting.

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Hot+Topics/Russia~Turkey

Russia Defence Forum

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Tourism in/related to Russia

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Russia Turkey relations

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Erdogan, Putin due to meet in person over thawing of bilateral ties

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