Military budget of the Russian Federation

sepheronx wrote:USSR had a mil budget of 40% of GDP. It was bad.

No way it was 40%, that's ridiculous. Maybe 20-25, we'll probably never know the exact figures. They had a reasonable standard of living, especially during the 60s and 70s. That would've been totally impossible with a military budget of 40% of the GDP. But yes, it was bad, and most importantly just got worse and worse.

Kimppis wrote:

sepheronx wrote:USSR had a mil budget of 40% of GDP. It was bad.

No way it was 40%, that's ridiculous. Maybe 20-25, we'll probably never know the exact figures. They had a reasonable standard of living, especially during the 60s and 70s. That would've been totally impossible with a military budget of 40% of the GDP. But yes, it was bad, and most importantly just got worse and worse.

i think USSR had around 15% of GDP for military budget

George1 wrote:

Kimppis wrote:

sepheronx wrote:USSR had a mil budget of 40% of GDP. It was bad.

No way it was 40%, that's ridiculous. Maybe 20-25, we'll probably never know the exact figures. They had a reasonable standard of living, especially during the 60s and 70s. That would've been totally impossible with a military budget of 40% of the GDP. But yes, it was bad, and most importantly just got worse and worse.

i think USSR had around 15% of GDP for military budget

Yeah, In my opinion that's a figure that would make the most sense. First of all, USSR's economy was something like 50-60% of the US, by PPP. And If I remember correctly, US allocated something like 6-8% of GDP for the military. So that way their military spending would have been very similar. Regarding the USSR military budget, I've read how the Soviets had 40% or 50% of their GDP for the military according to some, but usually the numbers are at around 20, which is atleast plausible. The numbers are just all over the place. They were extremely secretive about their military spending.

Kimppis wrote:

George1 wrote:

i think USSR had around 15% of GDP for military budget

Yeah, In my opinion that's a figure that would make the most sense. First of all, USSR's economy was something like 50-60% of the US, by PPP. And If I remember correctly, US allocated something like 6-8% of GDP for the military. So that way their military spending would have been very similar. Regarding the USSR military budget, I've read how the Soviets had 40% or 50% of their GDP for the military according to some, but usually the numbers are at around 20, which is atleast plausible. The numbers are just all over the place. They were extremely secretive about their military spending.

yes and consider that 6-8% of USA military budget was the highest rates (vietnam war, 80s build up)

It wasn't the Soviets military budget that was the problem... look at Cuba or North Korea or Iran.

It is economic isolation and sanctions from the west that did in the Soviet Union.

Look at Communist China and the enormous growth it enjoyed when it was being used as a pawn against the Soviet Union in the wests game of the enemy of my enemy is my friend logic.

GarryB wrote:It wasn't the Soviets military budget that was the problem... look at Cuba or North Korea or Iran.

It is economic isolation and sanctions from the west that did in the Soviet Union.

Look at Communist China and the enormous growth it enjoyed when it was being used as a pawn against the Soviet Union in the wests game of the enemy of my enemy is my friend logic.

No it wasnt. The concept of gdp was pointless to Soviets. What did them in was their own stupidity in not financing other sectors of economy. Canada was exporting farming equipment to soviet union cause they didnt build their own (or at least not modern ones). Now they make their own. Sanctions hasnt brought down any nation. Iran has been blocaded for 30+ years and they are still around and not doing bad economically. They like to pretend that sanctions work, but they dont. No real example of them ever working. Sovoets let themselves fall apart with the spat between gorby and yeltsin. If that didnt happen, SU would possibly be around still.

sepheronx wrote: Sanctions hasnt brought down any nation... Sovoets let themselves fall apart with the spat between gorby and yeltsin. If that didnt happen, SU would possibly be around still.

I must agree. Ever since the Bukharin vs. Preobrazhensky debate in the 20s (which Preobrazhensky won) that led to the fall of the NEP (New Economic Policy) and an emphasis in industrialization, Soviet agriculture, with its kolkhozes and sovkhozes, was never a priority. The relatively limited agricultural output of the SU was mainly channelled to feed the massive Red Army, the bureaucracy and the industrial manpower.

Expenditures on state arms programme not cut yet: Rogozin

Interesting

By 2020, up to 70% of the budget will be allocated to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for the purchase of new equipment

Half of Russian Defense Ministry's expenditures in 2015 to be used on armament program

Expenses on the defense industry will not be cut regardless the current economic situation, deputy chairman of the Military Industrial Commission board Oleg Bochkarev said earlier

ST. PETERSBURG, January 23. /TASS/. Russian Defense Ministry will have more than half of its spending in 2015 to fund a state-financed armament program, Deputy Defense Minister Tatiana Shevtsova said at a lecture delivered for students of St. Petersburg State Economic University on Friday.
“This year the Defense Ministry will channel more than half of all expenditures to fund the state armament program,” Shevtsova said.
Expenses on the defense industry will not be cut regardless the current economic situation, deputy chairman of the Military Industrial Commission board Oleg Bochkarev said earlier. The state defense order will grow by more than 20% year on year in 2015 and by more than 40% in 2017, he said.

Defaults on defense order in 2014 made up for in 2015

Obligations under the state defense order in 2014 made 95%, but there are failures on a number of points, they are brought under control and will be completed within 1-2 quarters of 2015, said Deputy Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov.

MOSCOW, January 24 - RIA Novosti. Plucked obligations on state defense orders in 2014 were followed up and will be implemented in the 1-2 quarter of 2015, said on Saturday, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov.

GOZ-2014 reached 95%, but there are a number of failures on some points, recalled the official.

"They were all taken under control. Reconcile Now" dogonochnye "graphics performance of those outstanding commitments," - Borisov said in the program "General Staff" on radio RSN. He noted that in the 1-2 quarter of 2015, these obligations will be met.

Russia's military budget may shrink 10 percent in 2015 - Rostec

Russian Defense Ministry may spend up to $4.7 billion on new weapons in 2015

Russia to present more than 5,000 samples of new armaments at Army-2015 forum

MOSCOW, March 12. /TASS/. Russia’s Defense Ministry may this year spend some 270-290 billion rubles ($4.4-4.7 billion) on research and design work to create promising weapons and hardware, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov said Thursday.

"We annually spend on R&D some 15-16% of the state defense order's volume," Borisov said speaking at the all-army conference of inventors and rationalizers.

He said the 15% is the minimum to be used to evaluate the intellectual property created as part of the state defense order.

"There is no upper limit. If the product is successful and finds its use not only in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, but also on the external armaments market, or if the invention or innovations find their application on the civil market, the effect could be a few times as high as expenditures," the deputy minister stressed.

Earlier, the deputy minister said the state defense order in 2015 will total 1.8 trillion rubles (around $29.5 billion).

In 2014 the state defense order stood at about 1.7 trillion rubles. According to Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, it was expected to grow by 20% in 2015.

Government optimizes the military budget

http://vpk.name/news/129153_pravitelstvo_optimiziruet_voennyii_byudzhet.html

Financing of the Armed Forces in 2015 will cut almost 100 billion rubles, compared with the approved budget

Introduced by the Government in the State Duma draft amendments to the budget 2015 funding of the Armed Forces reduced by almost 4%. As explained "Izvestia" the chairman of the Duma Committee on Defense Vladimir Komoedov, in particular, will be shifted deadlines for some projects in the state defense order. The first reading of the bill is scheduled for March 27.

- Almost all trims, including the Ministry of Defence, but the War Department minor cons, - said the deputy. - According to the article "National Defense" [from law enforcement agencies in 2015] withdrawn 157,217,000,000 rubles from 3.3 trillion. In particular, the armed forces be withdrawn from 99.741 billion originally planned 2.51 trillion rubles.
The general approach used in the draft amendment, - reduced costs for key spending budget by 10%. In this case, the budget allocation for national defense are listed in the exceptions list. In the State Duma Defence Committee explained that for the article "National Defense" it is a lower percentage of correction and reallocation of funds.

National defense expenditures include the purchase and repair of arms and military equipment, research and developmental work, the construction of special facilities, ensuring mobilization and non-military training, military training and logistics, as well as providing military personnel, military personnel and insurance other costs of law enforcement agencies.

The budget of the Armed Forces on 62% consists of the State Arms Program (SAP), and the remaining portion of the cost falls on the Defense Ministry troops and equipping public commitments.

State armament program - a framework document, the declaration of intent with the funding numbers of these intentions, said a member of the Public Council under the Ministry of Defense Igor Korotchenko. In addition, there is the concept of the state defense order (SDO) - a specific contracts, in which to pay the money and made the delivery of certain weapons systems.

- Social obligations and state armaments program sacred to us - no one touches, - the "News" in the Defense Ministry. - Nevertheless, a few percent of the funds for LG this year are transferred to the right. Most likely, it will be advancing on expensive contracts for equipment.

- The state defense order will not be reduced, but will be stretched in time - deadlines for some projects will be moved to the right, - said Komoedov.

The Defense Ministry explained that the problem is solved by the Office sequestration program "Effective army", which was adopted in early 2014 and allows the Ministry to reduce costs. A striking example - the installation of water metering.

- Previously, we have billions flowed into the pipe, because billed at the average rate, now at each crane belonging to the Ministry, it is worth the counter - says the source. - Similarly, electricity and heating.

Moreover, the military money saved introduction of model projects in the construction of military camps and the use of innovative technologies - fabricated structures and mobile tentoukryty.

Earlier this week, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov spoke about the possibility of a delay in the supply of troops multipurpose fighter of the fifth generation PAK FA. Who better to put in a larger number of less expensive fighter generation "4+".

Can be transferred at a later date, some orders for the Navy. This may be due to the short shipment powertrains from Ukraine, said "Izvestia", the first deputy chairman of the Duma Committee on Industry Vladimir Gutenev.

- Failure to supply is not critical, but somewhat shifted to the right date of commissioning of a particular technology - said Gutenev.According to a source of "Izvestia" in the Military-Industrial Commission (MIC) of Russia, under the optimization will get extensive and costly projects to modernize the large anti-submarine ships of project 1155 "delete" as well as shock destroyer project 956 "Modern".

- The idea to modernize outdated ships that decades earlier were at the dock, in my opinion, was quite controversial. And do not be surprised if by now she decided to give up - says arms expert Alexei Ramm. - It's okay if the savings will give billions on projects to develop other directions. For example, work on the creation of a hypersonic weapons are effectively, there may need to increase funding.

Savings will be achieved, and by eliminating the procurement of aircraft An-70 and possible adjustment programs for the purchase of other aircraft, said the source in the defense industry.
- At the same time budgets for some other programs will be revised upwards. For example, the financing of the corporation "Tactical Missiles" on 2015-2017 years will increase, - he said.

In the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) reported that official documents concerning the reduction or redistribution of funding the state defense order in the corporation have been reported. According to the corporation's president Alexei Rakhmanov, JSC "USC" in the established order is ready to participate in the consideration of proposals for the Ministry of Defense of cost optimization in Goza.

Denying the Russian airforce modern aircrafts to save a penny for cheaper jets. Instead, dont purchase Su-35's and just order more PAK FA's or come up with an alternative to PAK FA that is cheaper. But skimping out now to save a penny isnt smart, not in todays climate. Either that, or introduce even newer tech to current jets to help improve them, like the AESA radar for Su-30/35 aircrafts.

But apparently they still want more PAK FA's but now extended to a later time. I think it is better to make a cheaper aircraft now, and whoever will do it will do well. If they cut back, others may not be interested in it and prices for it will stay high. If they purchase more of it, prices should drop.

It is good they are extending the deadline rather than canceling anything. But I still think that a cheaper alternative to PAK FA needs to be looked at in order to get numbers in service as well as having something more capable.

sepheronx wrote:Denying the Russian airforce modern aircrafts to save a penny for cheaper jets. Instead, dont purchase Su-35's and just order more PAK FA's or come up with an alternative to PAK FA that is cheaper. But skimping out now to save a penny isnt smart, not in todays climate. Either that, or introduce even newer tech to current jets to help improve them, like the AESA radar for Su-30/35 aircrafts.

But apparently they still want more PAK FA's but now extended to a later time. I think it is better to make a cheaper aircraft now, and whoever will do it will do well. If they cut back, others may not be interested in it and prices for it will stay high. If they purchase more of it, prices should drop.

It is good they are extending the deadline rather than canceling anything. But I still think that a cheaper alternative to PAK FA needs to be looked at in order to get numbers in service as well as having something more capable.

DId you read the article?

They're talking about cancelling the plans for modernizing Soviet-era destroyer classes, and also cancelling plans for acquiring An-70s. The money they'll save they'll put towards things like developing hypersonic weapons.

Shame about the An-70 really; it's the big tragedy of this whole Ukraine crisis. Can't be helped I guess.

Meant to say procurement of important things (I dont count AN-70 as one since IL can create something similar and AN is Ukrainian). No cancelation in procurement. Modernozing old destroyers may not be beneficial especially if they are developing new destroyer. If the money goes towardsthe new destroyers and hypersonic weaponry, that is fine. At the moment, Russia needs more and newer Frigates. Destroyers can come later.

When your money situation is not good it makes sense to cut back on things that you don't really need.

This wont effect the direction the Russian military is moving in... it will just slightly reduce the pace for a short while.

When the light at the end of the tunnel is brighter (closer) they can increase the spending to compensate... by then what they buy will be newer and more capable and will probably be more expensive and need that extra money.

I did a back of envelop calculation and found that for a SAP budget of 20 Trillion Rouble and 3 Trillion MIC till 2020

Even a 20 % cut in 23 trillion would mean they would still spend 18.4 Trillion on both.

Not bad if they have to cut to 20 % budget.

I think they can reduce the number of armour they buy push beyond 2020 some projects

Defense budget cuts to have no effect on Russia’s defense capability — lawmaker

Russia's national defense spending is expected to be slashed to about $57 billion

MOSCOW, April 7. /TASS/. Russia’s defense budget cuts will not affect the country’s defense capability, member of the Defense Committee at the State Duma (the lower house of Russia’s parliament), Col.-Gen Viktor Zavarzin said on Tuesday.

The lawmaker commented on amendments to the budget discussed by the lower house of Russia’s parliament on Tuesday.

The amendments are expected to slash budget appropriations under the "National Defense" spending item by 157,217,500,000 rubles ($2.9 billion) to 3.12 trillion rubles (about $57 billion) compared with the budget outlays approved earlier, the lawmaker said.

The largest cuts are expected under the sub-items "Armed Forces of the Russian Federation" (by 99,741,400,000 rubles or by $1.8 billion) and "Mobilization and Reserve Officers Training" (by 654,400,000 rubles or by $11.9 million), he said.

"Today’s defense budget cuts will not in any way affect the state’s defense capability and the state’s obligations will be fulfilled," Zavarzin said, adding that "military pensions will be increased actually by 7.5% from October 1, 2015."

The Russian government will also not cut expenditures on the state armaments program, although the fulfillment of some of its parts will be shifted to a later period, the lawmaker said.

I am very glad no cuts at all to procurement. But the cuts mentioned..,, does that include army training.

Russia’s Defense Ministry plans no army downsizing despite budget cuts

The ministry will not cut expenditures on socially important budget items

MOSCOW, April 9. /TASS/. Russia’s Defense Ministry does not plan to reduce the numerical strength of the Russian Armed Forces or expenditures on servicemen’s pay, despite budget cuts, Deputy Defense Minister Tatiana Shevtsova said on Thursday.

"The Defense Ministry of Russia does not plan to make a decision on reducing the personnel of the Armed Forces or the size of pays," Shevtsova said at a meeting with the heads of financial bodies in Rostov-on-Don.

Russia’s Defense Ministry will not cut expenditures on socially important budget items, she said.

"These are the expenditures on personnel that include servicemen’s money allowance, pays to civilian personnel and compensation payments and pensions," the Defense Ministry official added.

Russia’s Defense Ministry will be able to avoid cuts in spending on personnel through optimizing expenditures on the army maintenance and equipment, she said. In particular, this will be done through the implementation of the Effective Army program, she added.

The deputy defense minister said in late March that the Defense Ministry would not reduce allowance and pays, cancel or cut some types of payments. She said that servicemen’s money allowance had not been indexed since 2012 but had grown constantly through incentive pays. Last year, the servicemen’s monthly pay averaged 62,000 rubles ($1,190 at the current exchange rate).

George1 wrote:Defense budget cuts to have no effect on Russia’s defense capability — lawmaker

Russia's national defense spending is expected to be slashed to about $57 billion

When I read that part I was like "what the fuck is this shit!? 57 billion!?" But then I almost immediately remembered ruble's exchange rate.  So yeah, doesn't seem to bad at all.

http://tass.ru/en/russia/789540

$40b this year for state arms program, no cuts in there but there will be cuts overall in military, or stiffening spending at least. So I imagine certain things being repaired wont or reduced spending there and who knows but they said to be keeping same or more personnel and no cuts in procurement but some other cuts.... dunno, quite vague, especially since they opened new arctic bases.