T-55 and BTR-T your views

True, but then the MBT is an offensive weapon... for defence layers of ATGMs and RPGs and Helicopters armed with ATGMs and of course the sensible use of mine fields and anti tank structures is cheaper and easier to put together and maintain.

MBTs can be incorporated into those defences as mobile gun platforms too, but they are not as critical... in fact often towed guns prevent lines of defence from moving when put under pressure...

True... - That being said, even the most offensive weapons should have defensive capability.

Hi all, does anyone know if Russia still has T-55 tanks in storage/reserve????? and if so how many and what are they likely to do with them?

I think if they have they would be ideal to upgrade like Eygpt has done (Ramses) which brings them up closer to modern standards and sell them to poor countries or countries with a small budget. I know some people will say the have the T-72 to sell but surely it makes sense to get rid of the older stuff first.

The main problem is that while a T-55 is relatively cheap the old T-72s are also fairly cheap too and the costs of upgrading a T-55 is very similar to the costs of an upgraded T-72 because all the expensive bits you add to a T-55 are similar to the expensive bits you add to a T-72 to upgrade it.

If you don't already have the T-55s it doesn't make sense to buy them and then upgrade them, because for a little bit more you can do the same with old model t-72s and end up with a much better protected vehicle.

A late model T-72 actually has very good base armour... if you add ARENA and some Relikt you actually have a fairly well protected tank.

Buy T-72s and convert T-55s to BTR-Ts.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Buy T-72s and convert T-55s to BTR-Ts.

I agree, its shame i thought the BTR-T was a good idea, but it seems the T-72 has taken that role with the BMP-T, i still think the chassis still has some use, i know some countries who had the SA-3/ S-125 upgraded and while doing so had some mounted on top of T-55's. I like what Eygpt has done with theirs. They could be turned into TOS-2 and sold to foreign markets the T-55 chassis would be ideal for poorer nations as it highly likely they still have them in service and could easily repair them all they would have to learn is how to operate and look after the TOS part.

d_taddei2 wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Buy T-72s and convert T-55s to BTR-Ts.

I agree, its shame i thought the BTR-T was a good idea, but it seems the T-72 has taken that role with the BMP-T, i still think the chassis still has some use, i know some countries who had the SA-3/ S-125 upgraded and while doing so had some mounted on top of T-55's. I like what Eygpt has done with theirs. They could be turned into TOS-2 and sold to foreign markets the T-55 chassis would be ideal for poorer nations as it highly likely they still have them in service and could easily repair them all they would have to learn is how to operate and look after the TOS part.

The T-55 is a great simple chassis for just about any kind of tracked vehicle, as is the T-72. I think these older chassis should be used for BTR-T's and TOS's etc.

The Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon will take over every vehicle role... from heavy BTR-T (which is the APC and IFV variants of the armata) to BMPT (again armata) and all the other vehicles in the unit will be armata based in the heavy units.

If you have T-55s in abundance I would split the upgrades to include some heavy APCs and some tank destroyers... with a T-72 turret with a 57mm main gun and Kornet EM missiles.

GarryB wrote:The Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon will take over every vehicle role... from heavy BTR-T (which is the APC and IFV variants of the armata) to BMPT (again armata) and all the other vehicles in the unit will be armata based in the heavy units.

If you have T-55s in abundance I would split the upgrades to include some heavy APCs and some tank destroyers... with a T-72 turret with a 57mm main gun and Kornet EM missiles.

Well meaning russia has once again best Tank,IFV, APC well and BMPT which is unique anyway, not to mention IFV was already best.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:How far can T-55 modernization go? This tank is very old but maybe by doing heavy armor upgrades and replacing the turret with 4x 30-40mm guns and Kornet launchers it woud make a decent infantry support vehicle.

There is a fine modernization called T-55M6 that replaces the old 100mm gun with the 125mm gun of T-72 and brings protection to T-80U level:

You understand that the tank you have posted has a stretched chassis and 6th wheel? You also understand that there is probably nothing left of the T55. It's a T72 turret, engine and autoloader (hence the stretching of the chassis). That's something I have hard time understanding. At that point i'd buy surplus T72's.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:How far can T-55 modernization go? This tank is very old but maybe by doing heavy armor upgrades and replacing the turret with 4x 30-40mm guns and Kornet launchers it woud make a decent infantry support vehicle.

There is a fine modernization called T-55M6 that replaces the old 100mm gun with the 125mm gun of T-72 and brings protection to T-80U level:

You understand that the tank you have posted has a stretched chassis and 6th wheel? You also understand that there is probably nothing left of the T55. It's a T72 turret, engine and autoloader (hence the stretching of the chassis). That's something I have hard time understanding. At that point i'd buy surplus T72's.

Pretty much that. The only genuine T-55 that reached its most final form of modernisation and a very deep one was AGM model and at that point it was already better to buy T-72S.

I think firstly the T-55 deserves big thank you and praise despite its age it has proven invaluable to the Syrian Arab Army, and the mainstay MBT in the conflict, i like how they have put simple upgrades liked caged armour/rocket screens, even then filling the cages with sandbags is simple but effective.

I have always said that what the Egytians and Iranians did with theirs was fantastic upgrading them to Ramses II(Egyptian) and T-72Z(Iranian), although still no match for T-90 etc, this is still a capable tank which would be ideal against IFV, buildings etc, although in numbers even newer MBT would have to watch out.

The T-54/T-55 chassis of course has been used for many uses, such as ZSU-23-4, ZSU-57-2, bridge layer, recovery, etc etc, But there so much more uses it could have and has had than the Soviet uses. The Israeli converted them into heavy APC The Achzarit which was good. Then you have various countries have mounted Sa-2, SA-3, and Sa-5 on T-55 chassis yet again another good use.

Then there was the BTR-T which was a great idea a real shame these upgrade kits haven't been bought yet. Other uses i think would be good would be
are the following:

T-55 chassis with mounted with Twin barrel self loading 120mm mortar turret (a bit like Finnish/Swedish AMOS)

T-55 chassis with mounted with single barrel self loading 160mm mortar turret (twin barrel would be nice)

T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading D-44 85mm artillery guns

T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading M1942 (ZiS-3) 76mm artillery guns

T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading D-48 85mm anti-tank guns.

T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading D-30 122-mm howitzer

T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading M-46 130mm artillery gun (now this would be nice)    

you could also mount 4x M1939 (61-K) 37mm anti aircraft guns or even 4x S-60 57mm in the same sort of style as the ZSU-23-4, just imagine if you have a ZSU-23-4 upgraded with 4x S-60 57mm and 4 SA-24 or Verba now this would be scary  

but any of these upgrades could also be mounted on the highly versatile MT-LB, or even older chassis of T-34 a good use of T-34 in storage. You could also mount these on T-62, T-64, BMP-1, BMP-2 and BTR-50 and some could be mounted on BTR 60, 70, 80. Syrians and Cubans already use T-34 as self propelled artillery chassis for D-30 and M-46.

the good thing about all these is the use of older equipment, all the above are pretty useful, just imagine a twin barrelled M-46 130mm shells raining down on the enemy,  

I know some might think the older stuff to be of no use but even twin barrelled self loading 76mm and 85mm artillery is still pretty useful against ground troops and light armour, a group of 12 vehicles they could fire for just 1 minute then move (shoot and scoot tactic).  
see the following details for each gun and see what you think,

Zis-3, 76mm, range=13km, rate of fire 25 rounds a minute, (so with twin barrel thats 50 rounds a minute)

D-44, 85mm, range=15km, rate of fire 20 rounds a minute, (so with twin barrel thats 40 rounds a minute)

so when you take this into account and then if you used them in groups of 12 vehicles thats a pretty impressive 600 x76mm shells in 1 mintue, and
480 x85mm shells in 1 minute, not bad really and against light armour or troops out in the open this is almost as deadly as BM-21, and this is cheaper to fire, could be a useful system to provide instant artillery support for ground troops, i know when i was in the forces artillery wasn't always available using these would provide them with there own dedicated artillery, and of course they could if needed be used in direct fire role. (changed your mind yet lol)

as for the other artillery systems and Mortar systems the twin 120mm and single/twin 160mm mortars and twin artillery guns 122mm and 130mm
i dont think i even have to mention the devastation that this would have.

and as for the twin D-48 85mm anti tank gun this would be ideal for taking out IFV, as well against buildings and providing direct fire support for ground troops. I remember a T-34-85 in May 1995 a Serb T-34-85 attacked an UNPROFOR outpost/Bunker manned by British Royal Engineers in Bosnia, injuring them.

So whats your views on these sytems and do you have any useful upgrades either on T-54/T-55 or other platforms such as T-34, MT-LB, BMP, BTR, Trucks, tanks etc etc.


When i was in Cambodia i saw a destroyed T-54/T-55 armed with 16 tube BM-14 (140mm) see pic below.

some websites about the various T-55 upgrades and own country builds some of which are good. I think we will see the T-55 in service around the world in till 2030 which is impressive. The T-55 has been the mainstay of the SAA and has proved to still be useful.

https://resboiu.wordpress.com/2011/06/05/tr-85m1-vs-familia-t-55-pe-steroizi/

and

http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-1755.htm

and some pics of various T-55, upgrades, and country builds.




UKRAINIAN UPGRADE

M-55 SLOVENIAN UPGRADE

IRANIAN UPGRADE Type-72Z Safir-74

T-AGM 55 (Ukraine) T-2 55M8A2 Gauze (Peru)

T-55

T-55

T-55 ENIGMA (IRAQI)

T-55 WITH DROZD

T-55AM

T-55AM2B

T-55WITH DOZER BLADE



ROMANIAN T-85 BASED ON T-55

EGYPTIAN RAMSES II A MAJOR UPGRADED T-55



EGYPTIAN T-55


BTR-T

also in June 2015 Serbia sold 282 T-55 tanks to Pakistan to which Pakistan will look to upgrade them with the Al-Zarrar upgrade which they have applied to their T-59.

https://inserbia.info/today/2015/06/serbia-sold-282-modernized-t-55-tanks-to-pakistan-report/

the Al-Zarrar upgrades the tanks with the following:
-125 mm smoothbore tank gun with an autofrettaged, chrome-plated gun barrel capable of firing various rounds including DU & missiles
-semi-automatic autoloader,
-dual-axis stabilization system,
-thermal imaging sights integrated into the fire-control system,  
-image stabilized fire-control system includes a laser range-finder,
-ballistics computer,
-modified torsion bar suspension system,
-liquid-cooled 12-cylinder diesel engine, giving a power output of 730 hp (540 kW) and torque output of 305 kg.m at 1300–1400 rpm. A combat weight of 40 tonnes gives Al-Zarrar a power-to-weight ratio of 18.3 hp/tonne and a top speed of 65 km/h,
-modular composite armour and explosive reactive armour
-ATCOP LTS-1 laser threat warning system
-automatic fire-extinguishing and explosion suppression system.

so a pretty impressive upgrade, below is a few of pics showing the Al-Zarrar upgrade on the T-59.

If the new APS systems are as good as they say they are then a T-55 level of armour plus new NERA armour on top and it should be as safe as most any other tank... not invincible but safe from most first attacks and able to defend itself.

The thing is that keeping such vehicles in service makes no sense for Russia... they have committed to all new vehicle families so at best they might keep the T-72/90 family as backup numbers vehicles. Adding T-55s would be a waste of money and time.

For poorer allies or allies that wont need Armata based vehicles then variations could be applied to the T-55 to make it more suitable.

For instance a decent 57mm gun with powerful guided and unguided ammo plus modern ATGMs would be an interesting alternative to a 125mm gun.

Of course the elephant in the room that I keep going back to is that any modification to the T-55 could be applied to the T-72 for the same price or less and result in a better vehicle all round.

In practical terms if a Konkurs can penetrate the side armour of an Abrams then even an unmodified T-55 with NERA armour on the front and APS could be similarly protected...

Without adding a lot of weight you can keep a smaller less powerful less thirsty engine and keep operating costs down.

As such it wont be a high priority for Russia.

They have sold a lot of vehicles in public sales over the years... I suspect with the sales and of course the vehicles in the worst condition being stripped and used as range targets for various weapons or sales to museums there wont be that many around soon.

GarryB wrote:If the new APS systems are as good as they say they are then a T-55 level of armour plus new NERA armour on top and it should be as safe as most any other tank... not invincible but safe from most first attacks and able to defend itself.

The thing is that keeping such vehicles in service makes no sense for Russia... they have committed to all new vehicle families so at best they might keep the T-72/90 family as backup numbers vehicles. Adding T-55s would be a waste of money and time.

For poorer allies or allies that wont need Armata based vehicles then variations could be applied to the T-55 to make it more suitable.

For instance a decent 57mm gun with powerful guided and unguided ammo plus modern ATGMs would be an interesting alternative to a 125mm gun.

Of course the elephant in the room that I keep going back to is that any modification to the T-55 could be applied to the T-72 for the same price or less and result in a better vehicle all round.

In practical terms if a Konkurs can penetrate the side armour of an Abrams then even an unmodified T-55 with NERA armour on the front and APS could be similarly protected...

Without adding a lot of weight you can keep a smaller less powerful less thirsty engine and keep operating costs down.

As such it wont be a high priority for Russia.

They have sold a lot of vehicles in public sales over the years... I suspect with the sales and of course the vehicles in the worst condition being stripped and used as range targets for various weapons or sales to museums there wont be that many around soon.

I would never suggest any upgrade to T-55 in russian service however on a T-72 yes i would, but Russia like you say could offer up the upgrade to T-55 to other countries as i believe that Peru wants to put the BMPT turret (or similar) on its T-55. However any T-55 that Russia still has in storage and are in a state of being able to be put back into service then they could sell these with the upgrades could be a cheap vehicle for some army out there. I agree on your point of the 57mm gun with ATGM's and NERA armour ideal set up, and with the small size of the T-55 and cheap running costs (compared to other tanks) this vehicle could be useful.

To my knowledge, there are not T55M6 in Russian Army service right? Only technology demostrator from factory right?

luigim wrote:To my knowledge, there are not T55M6 in Russian Army service right? Only technology demostrator from factory right?

Introduce yourself first pls

https://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules

Done.

To your knowledge, is t55m6 in service? What are the variants in service or in reserve of t55?

I cants seem to find any information on this vehicle is it even Russian? Its a t55 with a 125mm autoloaded gun and significant armor upgrades for what limited info I have.

The-thing-next-door wrote:I cants seem to find any information on this vehicle is it even Russian? Its a t55 with a 125mm auto-loaded gun and significant armor upgrades for what limited info I have.

The vehicle was presented at the VTTV Omsk exhibition of 2001, and designed/manufactured by KBTM Transport Engineering Design Bureau.
It features a turret bustle similar to that which was supposed to be featured in the Black Eagle Tank (Object 640).
The turret bustle houses a new auto-loader and 22 rounds of ammunition ready to fire. It can be assumed it had blowout panels for the ammo.
As you pointed out, the 100mm gun was replaced with the 2A46M-1 125mm gun of the T-80.
Another difference is that it was equipped with the Kontakt 5 ERA found nowadays in most T-72B tanks (the latest T-72B3 upgrade which started this years uses Relikt ERA).
They also presented the cheaper variant of T-55AM upgrade.

Tho cheaper as a newly built tank, it was a bit too complex given the age of the T-55 design. Basically it was offered with new welded turret + a more complex auto loader setup.
The cheaper upgrades are more suitable for such an old tank.


As far as i know only demonstrator was built and never purchased by anyone. Probably you will never see it again. But maybe somebody here has more info?

Actauly I wonder what all the Russian T-54/55 upgrades are?

I think I will rename this thread so it ca include them all.

Quite a few, but M6 was last one.

T-55 Chassis can still be useful as an upgrade as a heavy IFV. Unmanned turret, heat armor upgrade, separate comparments for units inside, and a new engine. The thing would still be a beast.

going through old documents i had from when i was in service and came across a document on the BTR-T, most the information in the document is now widely available(years later), however one key bit of information that i havent seen on internet pages is the cost. The cost of conversion using an existing
T-55 chassis is $600,000 per unit, this was in 1998.

As we saw extensive use of T-55 in Syria where it did the job and had some basic upgrades. Up against a rag tag terrorist groups it was enough to deal with such threat.

And now we see it being used on the Ukrainian conflict, as some have pointed out when Ukraine uses them the media says they are good and when Russia uses them on less active front or as a fire support vehicle they are crap. The T-55 might not be a modern MBT and might not be the best option against modern tanks however as a fire support vehicle it can do the job fine, a reliable easy to maintain tank with a gun that can blast apart buildings, APC, IFV and tanks of the same era and still has the ability to fire Bastion ATGW missiles which can take on some of the more modern tanks, It's still useful. The T-55 isn't something that should be written off, Turkey along with Indonesia did a joint project to building a joint lightweight tank called  Kaplan MT (turk) or Harimau (indo) which ended up being a medium tank weighing in at 30-35 tons (depending on armour package) carrying a 105mm gun and having armour protection of STANAG level 4 or level 5 as an upgrade. Level 4 is around protection from 14.5mm from distance 200m+ and artillery shells protection from 30m away, level 5 offers front and side protection from 25m from distance of 500m+ and artillery shells from 25m away, both have mine protection. The T-55 is around the same weight and gun is probably around the same power although the T-55 has added bonus of being able to use the Bastion ATGW missile, as for protection the T-55 has multiple upgrades available including extra armour, anti mine add ons, ERA, Drozd etc, and a variety of newer rounds and you will probably find the T-55 is more reliable, easier to maintain, china also produced a similar tank with similar capabilities as the turk/indo tank. Maybe there is a case to restart export of upgraded T-55 to countries seeking medium tanks would be a pretty cheap tank