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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:11 pm

    Here's two pieces of interesting news:

    Crimea declares Klitschko, Yatsenyuk and Tyagnybok personae non grata

    Authorities of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea may declare the leaders of the Maidan revolution in Kiev Vitali Klitschko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Oleh Tyagnybok personae non grata as carriers of far-right extremist nationalistic ideology, the speaker of the Crimean legislature, the Supreme Council, said Thursday.

    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_13/Crimea-declares-Klitschko-Yatsenyuk-and-Tyagnybok-personae-non-grata-8877/


    Attempt registered to make electronic attack on Russian TV satellites from Ukraine

    Russia’s Communications Ministry said Saturday an attempt had been registered to make a radio electronic attack on Russia’s television satellites from an area in western Ukraine.

    “People who make such decisions should think of consequences,” the ministry said.

    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_15/Attempt-registered-to-make-electronic-attack-on-Russian-TV-satellites-from-Ukraine-0851/
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    Post  Zivo Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:41 am

    Apparently the referendum vote is going very well for Russia.
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    Post  SOC Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:42 am

    Bal CDCM in Sevastopol.

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    Post  ali.a.r Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:39 am

    arpakola wrote:The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 14 __________%285%29
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 14 __________%20%281%29

    Can someone translate some of what is said here? Based on context I'd say its some sort of comparison between Russian and Ukrainian quality of life and all that.
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    Post  macedonian Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:24 am

    ali.a.r wrote:
    Can someone translate some of what is said here? Based on context I'd say its some sort of comparison between Russian and Ukrainian quality of life and all that.

    Exactly that.
    Petrol prices in Russia vs prices in Ukraine
    Average pay/pensions in Russia vs those in Ukraine, Education, Health etc.
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    Post  Werewolf Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:44 am

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 14 Empty Ukraine crisis EU imposes sanctions over Crimea

    Post  macedonian Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:44 pm

    BBC wrote:Ukraine crisis EU imposes sanctions over Crimea

    The EU has agreed to impose travel bans and asset freezes against 21 officials from Russia and Ukraine.

    The move follows Sunday's referendum in Crimea, in which officials say 97% of voters backed breaking away from Ukraine and joining Russia.


    more @ BBC

    Do we know whom they're sanctioning?
    A list I read had Rogozin on it.
    Would be interesting to know.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:48 pm

    Ukraine's east on fire: Kharkov demands referendum, Donetsk prosecutor’s HQ stormed
    Link
    Wow, thing's are really heating up and Donetsk finally started storming some buildings, although i wish the crowds were a bit bigger .

    Looking forward to FPs next update on the situation.
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    Post  macedonian Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:23 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Ukraine's east on fire: Kharkov demands referendum, Donetsk prosecutor’s HQ stormed
    Link
    Wow, thing's are really heating up and Donetsk finally started storming some buildings, although i wish the crowds were a bit bigger .

    Looking forward to FPs next update on the situation.

    Yes, seems Putin is trying to play the West's game in Kharkov.
    The same game they've been playing in Kiev, I mean.
    I'm cheering for Russkies now.  russia 

    Hope they don't blow it...
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    Post  macedonian Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:44 pm

    Here's who the Americans have sanctioned:

    Vladislav Surkov
    Sergey Glazyev
    Leonid Slutsky
    Andrei Klishas
    Valentina Matviyenko
    Dmitry Rogozin
    Yelena Mizulina

    And here's Rogozin's answer on Twitter:

    Comrade @BarackObama, what should do those who have neither accounts nor property abroad? Or U didn't think about it?)
    and later:
    I think some prankster prepared the draft of this Act of the US President)
    His Twitter Profile

    Gotta love the guy... Very Happy
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    Post  arpakola Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:57 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 14 Population
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    Post  Austin Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:07 pm

    Dmitry Rogozin is strong pro-russian keeps always Russian interest in mind and has a good sense of humour.

    Hope some day he becomes President of Russia.
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    Post  Austin Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:30 pm

    Opinion: Obama can't have it both ways on Crimea
    Simon Tisdall, assistant editor of the Guardian, Special to CNN

    Editor's note: Simon Tisdall is assistant editor and foreign affairs columnist at the Guardian. He was previously foreign editor of the Guardian and the Observer and served as White House correspondent and U.S. editor in Washington D.C. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely his.



    London (CNN) -- Whatever U.S. and European leaders may say, it seems clear a majority of the residents of Crimea were only too happy to abandon Ukraine and join the Russian Federation. The referendum held there on Sunday was illegal according to Ukrainian constitutional law and took place under duress, following the large-scale incursion of "pro-Russian forces" -- and voters did not have the choice to say "no" to severing ties with Kiev.

    But these failings aside, it appears plain that most of Crimea's population, with the exception of the Tatar minority and some ethnic Ukrainians, was content to return to what it regards as its ancestral home. The crucial turnout figures of up to 83% are suspect and may well be inflated. But independent reporting of enthusiastic celebrations suggested the overall outcome genuinely reflected popular wishes -- and was crudely democratic.

    For this reason, it is unwise of U.S. President Barack Obama and his European counterparts to declare they will "never" recognize the Crimean result.

    This crisis erupted when anti-Russian opposition forces in Kiev overthrew the country's democratically-elected president, Viktor Yanukovych. This action, too, was illegal under Ukraine's constitutional law and had little support in Crimea. But it was swiftly endorsed by Washington and in European capitals.

    Now, faced by the pro-Russian opposition's rebound success in Crimea and a political result he does not like, Obama cries foul and refuses to accept the outcome. He cannot have it both ways.  Laughing

    In his telephone conversation with Obama on Sunday, Russian President Vladimir Putin quoted the "Kosovo precedent," a reference to the recognition by the U.S. and several European states (but not Russia) of a 2008 declaration of independence by the provincial assembly in Pristina, even though Kosovo was then still a part of Serbia.

    The unrepentant Russian president's slightly disingenuous question to Obama was: So what's the difference?

    The right of self-determination of peoples is guaranteed under Chapter One of the U.N. Charter.

    In South Sudan (which became independent in 2011), in East Timor, in Croatia and Montenegro and various other Balkan states, the U.S. and its allies have upheld and encouraged this principle. A similar process is currently underway in Scotland. If Catalonia enjoyed a similar freedom, it would quite possibly part company with Spain.

    The answer given by Western governments when confronted with the "Kosovo precedent" is that each case is different and indeed, unique, and must therefore be treated on its separate merits. But this, too, is a slightly spurious argument, akin to the hypothesis which states that my invasion of a country (Iraq or Afghanistan, for example) is legally and morally justified, whereas your invasion is not.  Rolling Eyes

    In pragmatic as well as theoretical terms, it is a mistake to make of the assisted, hurried but essentially voluntary secession of Crimea a major issue of principle on which there can "never" be compromise. It will obscure the bigger picture. The key challenge for Obama and the EU is not the fate of Crimea per se, but what its destabilising departure implies for the future of Ukraine as a whole and for the wider region.

    The sanctions and other punishments now being prepared for Russia in Washington and Brussels should pivot on what Moscow does or does not do next, most especially in the cities of eastern Ukraine where additional, large ethnic Russian populations live but so too do many non-Russian Ukrainians. This pre-emptive policy should also apply to Moldova (which has a breakaway, pro-Russian region known as Transnistria), to the Baltic states, and to Georgia, where Putin might be tempted to intrude again.

    Putin was left in a minority of one at the U.N. Security Council at the weekend because Chapter One of the U.N. Charter also states the following: "All members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state."

    Whether Putin has absolutely contravened this principle in Crimea may be open to debate. But eastern Ukraine, with its mixed populations, heritage and loyalties, is a different matter altogether -- which even China, which did not support Moscow at the U.N., understands. If an emboldened Putin now makes the mistake of thinking he can extend his modern-day form of rolling Anschluss into these areas, he must be knocked back very hard indeed.

    That means going much further, and acting much tougher, than the rather feeble travel and visa bans now being discussed will allow. An Iran-style sanctions regime blocking energy exports, investment, banking and other mainstream business and commercial activities such as arms sales would be more appropriate. So, too, would be direct U.S. and European military assistance to Kiev, as proposed by Senator John McCain.

    Judging by his behaviour in Chechnya and elsewhere since he first became Russia's prime minister in 1999, Putin is a bully with a massive inferiority complex who responds to strength, not weakness. When Obama stresses that diplomatic solutions can still be found, as he did on Sunday, Putin reads that as fear. You can almost hear the snigger.

    The only way to stop this strutting menace, if he continues to over-reach, is to frighten him right back -- and if necessary, help create the conditions inside Russia in which he and his ugly, reactionary regime are brought down.
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    Post  Austin Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:32 pm

    Though Gorbachev is very anti-Putin but on Crimea he supports the cause

    Crimean referendum corrects USSR mistake, sanctions are inappropriate – Gorbachev



    The last Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev believes that possible western sanctions aimed at Russia after the Crimean referendum are inappropriate. "They must have very good reasons to declare such sanctions. Moreover, this decision must be supported by the UN," Mikhail Gorbachev said on Monday.



    "This cannot be done on the grounds of free will of the people in the region, and the possible integration of the Crimea into the Russian Federation " he added. Gorbachev welcomed the referendum, which "ended so successfully, meeting the expectations of the Crimean people."

    "Previously, the Crimea was annexed to Ukraine under Soviet law, meaning the Communist party did it without asking the people. Now the people themselves have decided to correct this mistake. We should welcome their decision, rather than impose sanctions for it," Gorbachev said.
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    Post  arpakola Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:44 pm

    Mikhail Gorbachev  - Catastroika
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 14 Hqdefault
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:55 pm

    Austin wrote:Dmitry Rogozin is strong pro-russian keeps always Russian interest in mind and has a good sense of humour.

    Hope some day he becomes President of Russia.

    I like Rogozin, he's a guy with a great sense of humor but one draw back is that he's abrasive, but the best candidate for the next Russian president should be Sergey Lavrov. How Sergey handled the Iran and Syrian situations is worthy of presidential material, he's the text book definition of a velvet glove.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:02 pm

    macedonian wrote:Here's who the Americans have sanctioned:

    Vladislav Surkov
    Sergey Glazyev
    Leonid Slutsky
    Andrei Klishas
    Valentina Matviyenko
    Dmitry Rogozin
    Yelena Mizulina

    And here's Rogozin's answer on Twitter:

    Comrade @BarackObama, what should do those who have neither accounts nor property abroad? Or U didn't think about it?)
    and later:
    I think some prankster prepared the draft of this Act of the US President)
    His Twitter Profile

    Gotta love the guy... Very Happy

    Rogozin's true response to sanctions by Obama:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 14 Attachment

     Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Post  arpakola Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:06 pm

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    Post  arpakola Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:21 pm

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    Post  arpakola Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:32 pm

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    Post  Firebird Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:51 pm

    Magnumcromagnon wrote:Dmitry Rogozin is strong pro-russian keeps always Russian interest in mind and has a good sense of humour.

    Hope some day he becomes President of Russia.

    Austin
    I like Rogozin, he's a guy with a great sense of humor but one draw back is that he's abrasive, but the best candidate for the next Russian president should be Sergey Lavrov. How Sergey handled the Iran and Syrian situations is worthy of presidential material, he's the text book definition of a velvet glove.



    I like Rogozin - esp his Xmas card to NATO Very Happy

    But I think a president needs to be a little bit of everything. Whereas a govt needs different types - Rogozin is the pitbull, Medvedev  is the west leaner. Lavrov has gravity and a huge level of skill. As has Putin.

    But I think any next president would need a huge array of skills. Lavrov is one of Russsia's/ fmr USSR's greatest foreign ministers, but why ditch that experience for a job that might not be his natural role. LIkewise with Rogozin.
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    Post  TR1 Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:14 pm

    Rogozin's biggest drawback is he is stupid as a brick.

    Insiders attest to his enthusiasm, but lack of serious intelligence.

    Something clearly seen in his constant twitter and media whoring.

    EDIT: So far the sanctions are only targeting individuals within Russia's gov. No serious economic hit there thankfully.
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    Post  TR1 Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:23 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Austin wrote:Dmitry Rogozin is strong pro-russian keeps always Russian interest in mind and has a good sense of humour.

    Hope some day he becomes President of Russia.

    I like Rogozin, he's a guy with a great sense of humor but one draw back is that he's abrasive, but the best candidate for the next Russian president should be Sergey Lavrov. How Sergey handled the Iran and Syrian situations is worthy of presidential material, he's the text book definition of a velvet glove.

    Lavrov is too much of a diplomat to be President IMO.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:34 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Austin wrote:Dmitry Rogozin is strong pro-russian keeps always Russian interest in mind and has a good sense of humour.

    Hope some day he becomes President of Russia.

    I like Rogozin, he's a guy with a great sense of humor but one draw back is that he's abrasive, but the best candidate for the next Russian president should be Sergey Lavrov. How Sergey handled the Iran and Syrian situations is worthy of presidential material, he's the text book definition of a velvet glove.

    Lavrov is too much of a diplomat to be President IMO.

    Than who's your next president?
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    Post  TR1 Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:35 pm

    Hopefully someone who is not from United Russia.

    I know I know, but a man can dream.

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