Ammo calibres for Russian Army rifles

Nice.

This brings up an interesting question that I started talking about on the AK-12 thread.

At the moment the Russians use a range of different calibres for different things but primarily for standard assault rifles they use the 5.45 x 39mm round which seems to do the job just fine, and the 7.62x54Rmm round from the 19th century which does the job but could do with replacement with something more modern that is used in designated marksman rifles and standard rifle calibre machine guns.

The round developed to replace the 7.62x54 include the custom designed 6x49mm round with a more aerodynamic bullet that reaches further and faster in a smaller lighter round that is more modern (rimless).

But there are other options... I think this Cheytac round is too much... it is a specialised round for very extended range engagements, but they are developing .338 lapua magnum type rounds for 1.5km range sniping which they are adapting to 9mm calibre for their own purposes... a cheap mass produced version could be adapted to be used in an SVD like rifle and a PKP type machine gun to replace the 7.62x54mm in Russian service and also extend the effective range of rifles and machine guns to 1.5km from the current 800m and 1,000m respectively.

This Lapua based ammo would not be lighter or much cheaper but would have longer effective range and be more effective against targets at closer ranges, while the 6x49mm is a smaller lighter round that could be carried in large volumes, extend shooting effective range to perhaps 1.2km with a better shaped more efficient bullet that reaches the target faster with less dispersion.

Personally I think the 6x49mm for the rifles and machine guns could make the rifles and machine guns slightly lighter and allow rather more ammo to be carried for a given weight, while the more exotic rounds like the Lapua based rounds and the Cheytac could be used by specialised snipers in special forces (VDV, Spetsnaz, Naval Infantry, FSB).

Ironically if a soldier wants to hit a man in a car at 10km he can just use a HE Frag warhead armed Kornet for the job.

But then the Russians have been talking about new fire arms based on new principles that will be part of Ratnik III coming out in 2025 so there is that as well.

Cheytak rounds were specially developed for counter-sniper activities and elimination of special targets, to use with SVLK-14S Sumrak or DXL-4 Sevastopol rifles, for example. Till now, those calibers were imported.

And the Lapua magnum rounds too, but the Russians ended up making their own Lapua rounds and clearly now their own Chaytac rounds too.

There were .300 Lapua rounds at 1.2km and .338 Lapua rounds at 1.5km effective ranges... it was the 338 Lapua rounds they were interested in, their metric designation being 8.6×70 mm, or 8.58 x 70mm, but they decided to change them to 9 x 70mm for some reason... perhaps further improving the ballistics of their own version of the rounds...

I suspect they will also adapt the Cheytac rounds to their own needs too before mass producing it and using it.

Western sanctions costing them money again... the old story... if you don't want to sell it we can just adapt the design and make it ourselves... your loss.

"Kalashnikov" will evaluate the need to modernize cartridges

https://ria.ru/20231102/patrony-1907007077.html

MOSCOW, November 2 - RIA Novosti. Kalashnikov is exploring the need for new ballistic solutions - cartridges in new calibers - for small arms, the concern's president, Alan Lushnikov, told reporters on Thursday.
"

“We must assess the need for a new ballistic solution, assess the need to switch to a new caliber. Now scientific research is being carried out on this topic. Because, you know, the Americans have already switched to new ballistic solutions, there is already a contract,” Lushnikov said when asked about modernization existing cartridges and the development of new ones.

https://ria.ru/20231102/patrony-1907007077.html

so Fyodorov avtomat in 6,5mm was really ahead of its time ;-)

The Fyodorov avtomat used Arisaka rifle caliber rounds because those rounds had less recoil than the regular rifle caliber used in the Mosin-Nagant rifle.
The Arisaka rifle was originally designed to be used by the Japanese who, back then, had infantrymen with lower body mass on average than Europeans. So the Arisaka was designed to be lighter and use smaller rounds.
Less recoil with the Arisaka rounds meant the automatic rifle was way more controllable in an actual fight.

The thing is the Arisaka ammo that Imperial Russia had was bought from the UK. It wouldn't have been viable to use in the long run since there was no production capacity for it in Russia. The Soviets ran into similar issues with ful power rifle rounds in automatic rifles. So they basically made a new rifle cartridge with a lower propellant charge which used much of the same tooling as the regular rifle rounds. And thus you get to the intermediate round used in the RPD and the AK-47.

I doubt this new US caliber is any good though. Despite the caliber being smaller it is basically a round made for long distance shooting and it has way too much recoil. Plus the technology is itself kind of outdated. The US did research more modern case telescoped and caseless ammo, which would have been lighter, but did not use that to save cost.

The last new round they were working on was a 6 x 49mm round but it was not a replacement for the 5.45 x 39mm, it was a replacement for the much older 7.62x54mm Rimmed cartridge introduced in 1891 and modernised in the early 1900s.

They are talking about the issue of body armour penetration which is probably an issue in Ukraine where modern body armour is probably reducing the lethality of assault rifle rounds.

The 5.45 x 39mm is actually a rather good round with low recoil and good velocity and excellent bullet shape that allows the round to retain performance out to quite decent ranges.

He is talking about new calibres rather than improved propellant to increase velocity and performance of existing calibres...

In the article it says that this was his response to the question about improving existing calibres and introducing new ones.

The image shows 7.62x54mm R ammo in belts too.

Seems they have a new calibre they are testing in an AK-22. It is 6x41mm, which is rather shorter than the 6x49 they were working on.

.45 of a mm larger calibre and 2mm longer propellant case... it sounds like a replacement for the 5.45 x 39mm round.

If that is the case perhaps the 9 x 70mm sniper round might become the basis for a new sniper rifle and MG calibre extending effective range to much greater distances.

Another video on the topic:



So according to this video they tested three new designs, a 6.7 x 45mm, a 6.5 x 39m, and this 6.04 x 41mm (shown at 29 seconds in the above video).

They were tested for improved penetration and extended effective range with minimal recoil.

A chart shown at 1 minute and 3 seconds shows the energy of three rounds... this new 6.04 x 41mm, the 5.45 x 39mm, and the 7.62x39mm.

The 6.04 x 41mm projectile is obviously very aerodynamically efficient with very low drag and retains 500 joules energy to 900m with the chart showing both the other rounds reaching that energy level at 500m and being half that energy at 900m.

It also mentions with the chart that the new round has a projectile weight of 6.7 grammes, which is about 103 grain.

At 1 minute 54 in the video it shows a nice new rifle in this new calibre, presumably as a DMR rifle that shares the same calibre as the AK-22 rifles carried by other soldiers in a unit. In comparison with the original rifle in 7.62 x 54mm seen above it, it looks like a nice compact rifle that would be probably effective to the ranges the original SVD was effective to... 800-900m, but with less recoil and smaller lighter modern ammo.

Makes me wonder if they might convert the 7.62 x 54mm sniper rifle to the 6x49mm round they were working on some time ago... which would be a good reason to call this new round 6.04 x 41mm to differentiate from a new 6x49mm round so the calibres are not confused because they wont be compatible.

A 6 x 49mm round for the new sniper rifle should allow it to be reduced in size with reduced recoil and effective range extended to about 1.5km or so with the low drag high velocity bullet. That round did require quite a long barrel though.

It had problems with barrel wear so maybe plastic driving bands on the projectiles would help?

So this video sheds a bit more light on the situation where it appears that the new  6 x 41mm round is intended to replace the 5.45mm in rifles and LMGs and DMR. If you look at the chart of energy performance the 7.62 x 39mm and 6x41mm start at the muzzle with just over 2,000 joules energy, while the 5.45 x 39mm has about 1,500 joules of energy at the muzzle, but both the 7.62 x 39 and 5.45 x 39 calibre rounds' energy drops away rapidly. At 250m the new round has similar energy to what the 5.45 has at the muzzle and has about double the energy of either round at 1,000m. At 500m, which is a distance they want their troops to be able to fire at targets at the new 6mm round still has 1,000 joules of energy while the two older calibres have half that at 500 joules.

So essentially you could use this cartridge to reach targets to 500m with assault rifles no heavier than 5.45mm assault rifles, and probably also point targets to 800m with the sniper rifle version in this new calibre that would be smaller and lighter than the original 7.62x54mm rifle, while I would say the RPK-16 with box magazines and the new RPL-20 in this new calibre should extend effective range in the new calibre.

Raises the question as to whether they would bother with a larger calibre round to replace the 7.62 x 54mmR cartridge in a heavier sniper rifle and replacement for the PKP. A 6 x 49mm would reach further, but further than their 9x70mm version  of the .338 Lapua round they are using for their new sniper rifles. A version of the SVD in such a calibre was already developed AFAIK (SVDK) and the new SVCh-8.6 uses the 338 Lapua round already too, but then there are also the Kalashnikov SVK sniper rifles in 7.62 x 54/51, so a 6x41mm and 9x70 models should not be that hard to develop.

A 9x70mm version of the PKP would be a very powerful weapon too...

Oops... forgot the video... here it is:

The reality is that your average soldier never gets to the skill level of a sniper in normal operations and the guy in a Soviet or Russian platoon with an SVD rifle is not really a sniper in the western sense.

Actual Soviet and Russian snipers are members of recon units or special forces and they are genuine snipers, but the guys in normal infantry platoons are not really actual snipers... they are the guys that shot better than the others so they essentially give them a better rifle with better ammo so they can reach out and touch important targets in a firefight. They pick off enemy machine gunners and officers and other snipers and also guys with rocket launchers that might threaten their platoon... remember they also have thermal optics and stabilised automatic cannon on the vehicle with them plus guys with machine guns for suppressive fire too.

In a jungle in Vietnam a 5.56 or 7.62x39mm round is plenty out to 300m or so, but in flat open terrain or in mountains where you can see the enemy on the other slope of the mountain you want to be able to have a shot at them and with an intermediate type round you are wasting your time.

The Americans were making all sorts of gatling guns and they made one in 5.56mm but from a helicopter at 800m the 5.56mm round is next to useless so it was not introduced at all.

They found themselves in Afghanistan with squads with rifles and LMGs and assault rifles all in 5.56mm that were largely useless beyond about 300m... even less for the carbines.

The Afghans realised they could use SVD and PK type weapons at 7-900m with a reasonable chance of a hit and return fire was useless.

When the Soviets were there they compensated by adding more SVDs and PKs and RPK-74s to their units.

The guys with full calibre rifles in a platoon were intended to hit the odd longer range shot with the guy in the unit with the best chance of connecting with the target.

Having a slightly smaller rifle in 6x41mm that could effectively hit and kill targets at 900m would actually be excellent... the ammo is lighter, the rifle is smaller and lighter and with less recoil... it sounds like an all round good deal.

Without special rifles and special ammo and properly trained soldiers you are not going to be hitting targets at much more than that in normal combat.

In terms of their actual snipers they have 9 x 70mm Lapua Magnum based rounds and many other different rounds too.

But of course when the target is a bunker of firing position up to 10km away nothing knocks down a door and kills everyone inside like the Kornet-EM or the new LMUR.

Lots of old ATGMs to be used up too.

I have actually heard some interesting things about the RPK-74, including testing of a new API round that printed 18mm centre to centre three round groups at 300m... that is sub MOA at 300m...

There was footage in the Donbass with guys using thermal scopes on RPK-74s with large magazines being used to cover exits where bursts of fire could be used against larger number of troops... I would think a belt fed RPL-20 in 6x41mm might be rather good at such roles.

Keep in mind that energy chart is for the assault rifle so a sniper rifle or LMG with a longer barrel would have more energy at the muzzle and retain velocity better down range because of the efficiency of the bullet shape at retaining speed down range to the target.

I wonder if they have more exotic technologies they could use like caseless ammo or plastic ammo cases etc etc.

They have sniper rifles in a range of calibres from 22LR and the SV-99, through most other calibres including special calibres like 9x39mm and 12.7x55mm and new rounds like 338 Lapua magnum etc etc.

The 7.62x54mm round needs replacement... perhaps new 6x49mm ammo with plastic drive bands to reduce barrel wear can replace it.

This 6x41mm is intended to replace the 5.45x39mm,

Maybe 9x21mm can replace 9x18m and 9x19mm.

9x39mm remains an excellent subsonic round as does the 12.x55mm rounds.