Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

Airman wrote:

Sorry, is that arrow pointing to something important or is it just a pic of the Mig-29 arriving to Serbia.

BM-21 wrote:

Airman wrote:

Sorry, is that arrow pointing to something important or is it just a pic of the Mig-29 arriving to Serbia.

Just a pic of the Mig-29 arriving to Serbia.

Airman wrote:

BM-21 wrote:

Airman wrote:

Sorry, is that arrow pointing to something important or is it just a pic of the Mig-29 arriving to Serbia.

Just a pic of the Mig-29 arriving to Serbia.

Ah ok thanks

First good pics of Serbia's new MiG-29s!
https://rs.sputniknews.com/foto/201710121113021855-Mig-Migovi-foto-galerija-barajnica-eksluzivno-avioni/
https://rs.rbth.com/science/79617-fotografija-ruskih-migova-iz-batajnice

Does anyone know what level/variant was delivered and what level they will upgrade to?  Heard reports of SM level. Some sources state 4+gen. Some to SMT/M2.

d_taddei2 wrote:Does anyone know what level/variant was delivered and what level they will upgrade to?  Heard reports of SM level. Some sources state 4+gen. Some to SMT/M2.

Don't know but I don't think it matters that much. All we need them for is air policing and keeping pilots certified for supersonic flight. With these we are covered for couple of decades easy.

SAM systems is what it's all about.

What I would want to see is squadron or two of Yak-130 in combat version (if UAC ever get around to making one) but Yak-130 in standard edition + SAMs will do just fine for whatever might happen here.

miketheterrible wrote:What are you guys sporting for an AD anyway?

S-125 Neva and 2K12 Kub

Waiting for those BUKs to finally arrive (maybe something even bigger but BUKs will do just fine)

They would solve max altitude problem we had during 99, we were 10km short

Everyone is talking about S-300 but BUK is more than enough, problem was altitude, not max distance

Yeah, Buk has around over 70K ft. So that's enough to bring down a globalhawk.

Any kind of plans for newer SHORADS?

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:What are you guys sporting for an AD anyway?

S-125 Neva and 2K12 Kub

Waiting for those BUKs to finally arrive (maybe something even bigger but BUKs will do just fine)

They would solve max altitude problem we had during 99, we were 10km short

Everyone is talking about S-300 but BUK is more than enough, problem was altitude, not max distance

BUKs would be excellent, would also be good to have Pantsirs or even Tunguskas for point defense.

I quite agree PapaDragon combat multi role yak-130 are sufficient but now migs are on the scene I would say mig-29 and replace remaining aircraft with yak-130 and 6-8 mi-35 and your done.
AD front I believe BUK and Tunguska was mentioned along with its current upgraded
s-125, Kub, and sa-13  is ok.
Not sure if buk will replace kub or not as kub have been upgraded not so long ago. I would think that Tunguska would replace bofors.

For future upgrade sa-13(or see below long term) and simple upgrade of S-125 mounted on T-55 they have in storage and addition of another missile as is common practice when mounting the system in this manner something i am surprised they havent done yet. Replace Sa-9 and praga with a mix of strelets and mounted zu-23/ZOM1 and both this and strelets could be mounted on the Sa-9  (Brdm-2) and praga a simple replacement of weapons only keeping chassis these systems would be more than enough and improve their AD to a good level. They of course if wanted could also purchase some zsu 23-4M4(a mix of these and Tunguska replacing bofors) to which I think a mix of the three systems mentioned would be best option.  Exiting systems can be kept in reserve.

Long term they could slowly replace manpads with Verba and the sa-13 could be replaced eventually by Sonsa -R yet again just a matter of replacing the missile system and using the MT-LB chassis of the sa-13. As for s-300 too expensive unless Russia donates or sells cheaply I doubt they will get it. But what I mentioned above I would imagine they could get cheaper than buying S-300 and it would be more than enough. Of course there will come a time S-300 might be supplied but likely not within a decade.

Forgot to mention that current yak -130 I believe can deliver munitions as I believe Bangladesh is using it as such in a combat role. Although I believe that yak hasn't specifically designed a dedicated combat version yet. But they need get a move on and get a version many sales opportunities to be had if they do.

if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

Oh dude, way ahead of you there. This thing has been working the infantry for decades:

PapaDragon wrote:

Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

Oh dude, way ahead of you there. This thing has been working the infantry for decades:

how many are in service? i believe these are 20mm cannons? its not bad system. But will they build more?

reason for bofors is that its another calibre that they could get rid of, stream lining calibre sizes in the forces.

d_taddei2 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

Oh dude, way ahead of you there. This thing has been working the infantry for decades:

how many are in service? i believe these are 20mm cannons? its not bad system. But will they build more?

reason for bofors is that its another calibre that they could get rid of, stream lining calibre sizes in the forces.

Yes, 3x20mm, BOV-3. Not very... great system to be honest. It was never really finished product, had many issues, today only few are remaining in service and not with the army. They are being converted into recon and command variants.

And no, last example was built 3 decades ago.

Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  

Cyberspec wrote:

Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  

Not bad. But like most serbian systems it will be filled with a mix of components from various countries and will it make it into production? Using zsu-23-4 would likely be cheaper as most are in storage in Russia and upgrading them to zsu -23-4M. Russia I presume are looking to sell these off. Or cheaper option buy zu-23-2 ZOM1 etc then mount it on variety of vehicles that they already have in stock.

Cyberspec wrote:

Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  

just the thing ... those bofors might be old guns but they are still useful

The performance of those Sidewinders from a ground launch would leave much to be desired... they could do with some solid rocket boosters to get them moving and to altitude.

The biggest threat these days is UAVs and UCAVs so if that 40mm gun can take down UAVs flying a reasonable heights from reasonable ranges then it makes a lot of sense.

The Russians have realised that 23mm guns lack the altitude and accuracy to hit small targets like UAVs so the 57mm guided shells are getting the nod instead... a nice HE frag shell that explodes within a few metres of a UAV should be effective enough.

GarryB wrote:The performance of those Sidewinders from a ground launch would leave much to be desired... they could do with some solid rocket boosters to get them moving and to altitude.

The biggest threat these days is UAVs and UCAVs so if that 40mm gun can take down UAVs flying a reasonable heights from reasonable ranges then it makes a lot of sense.

The Russians have realised that 23mm guns lack the altitude and accuracy to hit small targets like UAVs so the 57mm guided shells are getting the nod instead... a nice HE frag shell that explodes within a few metres of a UAV should be effective enough.

Those are supposed to be locally modified Russian R-13Ms. Remnants of old project from late 90s.

d_taddei2 wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:

Godric wrote:if they could mount the bofors gun on a truck or a BMP 1 they would be quite effective as a ground fire support

There's always the PASARS-16 as an option  

Not bad. But like most serbian systems it will be filled with a mix of components from various countries and will it make it into production?  Using zsu-23-4 would likely be cheaper as most are in storage in Russia and upgrading them to zsu -23-4M. Russia I presume are looking to sell these off. Or cheaper option  buy zu-23-2 ZOM1 etc then mount it on variety of vehicles that they already have in stock.

Tracked, hence too expencive for us to operate.

Also we do not have 23mm ammunition in required quantities, while we still do have some reserves of ammo for Bofors. We have no adequate military budget to think about major procurements sadly. Mostly used, gifted... repainted xD

Those are supposed to be locally modified Russian R-13Ms. Remnants of old project from late 90s.

Soviet Sidewinders would be no better, though looking a bit closer the bodies of the missiles get wider so they clearly have a more powerful rocket motor added... it would not give it sterling performance anyway.

They have large stocks left over from the Yugoslav Army so I suppose it makes sense to upgrade them. I think the Maljutka is till the most numerous ATGM in service with the Serbian Army. Apart from the ground based platform, the Airforce's Gazelle light helicopters are armed with it