Is China a threat to Russia?

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Vladimir, how do you jusge the habitability of that area? 90% of Russian Far East has brutally harsh winters and just isn't well suited for human habitation but there is a milder climate along the coastline. Could ~20 milion people be brought to the area around Vladivistok-Khabarovsk?

Of course there is. The Chinese provinces to the south of the Amur house 110 million and they are the same habitability level. If you cherry pick plots 20 million could live quite well if the industry is there to employ them. If we build HSR to the mines and fields to the north inhabitants could commute to the job while living in the more pleasant latitudes. There is enough arable land to employ 3 million co-op labour, talking about high paid mechanized farming. Figure another 3 million employed by mining and drilling. Another million employed in timber. Another million in military garrison and trickle down business. Move some factories for another 2 million and you have a sustainable job base for 10 million full time employees and encourage them to reproduce like rabbits.

http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/42/105242-004-D8DEDBD1.gif

This is pop density map of China and cities marked by circle or square.  As you can tell, most cities north in China are quite small.  Most of its population is right in the south east.  China alsp has an issue were majority of its population is old and heavily disjointed between men and woman.

sepheronx wrote:
This is pop density map of China and cities marked by circle or square.  As you can tell, most cities north in China are quite small.  Most of its population is right in the south east.  China alsp has an issue were majority of its population is old and heavily disjointed between men and woman.

North China 153,180,300 persons
Northeast China  121,163,770 persons
List of regions of the People's Republic of China , Wikipedia

sepheronx wrote:http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/42/105242-004-D8DEDBD1.gif

This is pop density map of China and cities marked by circle or square.  As you can tell, most cities north in China are quite small.  Most of its population is right in the south east.  China alsp has an issue were majority of its population is old and heavily disjointed between men and woman.

That's got a lot to do with why China is flexing their muscles in South China Sea and so on. The vital space of China lies on those shores, islands, islets, sea lanes and their cultural/historical influence is towards places like Vietnam, Cambodia, Singapore, Thailand and of course Taiwan. Russian Far East has very little to offer them besides minerals and so on, i.e. a route to the outside world (trade) with security.

China is mostly focused on that, rather than some over-simplistic geographical expansion based on 1970s doctrines (that are dead).
And as the pdf shows, half the country (central Asia part) is as empty as the Russian Far East.

kingodthequeens wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
This is pop density map of China and cities marked by circle or square.  As you can tell, most cities north in China are quite small.  Most of its population is right in the south east.  China alsp has an issue were majority of its population is old and heavily disjointed between men and woman.

North China 153,180,300 persons
Northeast China  121,163,770 persons
List of regions of the People's Republic of China , Wikipedia

Try not to use wikipedia.  It is usually very wrong.  The map I provided is far more accurate.

KiloGolf wrote:

sepheronx wrote:http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/42/105242-004-D8DEDBD1.gif

This is pop density map of China and cities marked by circle or square.  As you can tell, most cities north in China are quite small.  Most of its population is right in the south east.  China alsp has an issue were majority of its population is old and heavily disjointed between men and woman.

That's got a lot to do with why China is flexing their muscles in South China Sea and so on. The vital space of China lies on those shores, islands, islets, sea lanes and their cultural/historical influence is towards places like Vietnam, Cambodia, Singapore, Thailand and of course Taiwan. Russian Far East has very little to offer them besides minerals and so on, i.e. a route to the outside world (trade) with security.

China is mostly focused on that, rather than some over-simplistic geographical expansion based on 1970s doctrines (that are dead).
And as the pdf shows, half the country (central Asia part) is as empty as the Russian Far East.

Exactly.  Plus they have so much infrastructure in ghost cities and what not,  much easier to populate those than some half baked idea of expanding into some other countries territory due to paranoia or something.

I dont trust China either, but some claims made are silly at best.

20-22% of China's terrain is mountainous that's why they import a lot of food items.

sepheronx wrote:
Exactly.  Plus they have so much infrastructure in ghost cities and what not,  much easier to populate those than some half baked idea of expanding into some other countries territory due to paranoia or something.

I dont trust China either, but some claims made are silly at best.

Is that why ethnic Chinese have huge diaspora in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines that controls much of the commerce? They have been colonizing their desired territories the entire time.

Yeah, like white people started colonising the known world for the last 3-4 centuries...

the irony for the conspirasy theorists is that what they don't get is that most that move away moved for very good reasons and as long as you treat them with respect are as good if not better than any other migrants you might get.

Here in NZ the first gen chinese new migrants owned fish and chip shops or market gardens, while their children are lawyers and doctors well educated and hard working.

When gold was found in Otago a couple of centuries ago there were plenty of chinese migrants and they were not treated very well by my white european ancestors... it is embarrassing to me now.

Treat them like locals and they will become as fiercely protective of what we have as any other migrant could.

Treat them like foreigners in your country and it will be so much easier for them to side with any invaders if that ever happens... your call.

GarryB wrote:Yeah, like white people started colonising the known world for the last 3-4 centuries...

the irony for the conspirasy theorists is that what they don't get is that most that move away moved for very good reasons and as long as you treat them with respect are as good if not better than any other migrants you might get.

Here in NZ the first gen chinese new migrants owned fish and chip shops or market gardens, while their children are lawyers and doctors well educated and hard working.

When gold was found in Otago a couple of centuries ago there were plenty of chinese migrants and they were not treated very well by my white european ancestors... it is embarrassing to me now.

Treat them like locals and they will become as fiercely protective of what we have as any other migrant could.

Treat them like foreigners in your country and it will be so much easier for them to side with any invaders if that ever happens... your call.

Garry if you run for PM I'll vote for you.

The problem is... they don't assimilate.

Vladimir79 wrote:The problem is... they don't assimilate.  

First Generation is a hit and miss.  Second generation tend to do fine in assimilating.  Chinese are imo the best at it.  Try the East Indians.  They are some of, if not, the worst at assimilating to other cultures.  Nice people, dont get me wrong (I married one), but India is their: blood, heart and soul.  Chinese? They keep somewhat of a culture, but for the most part, its a huge money making scheme. I always thought they kinda lacked a culture and making them much easier to assimilate due to the Chinese CCP for so long pushing such ideas out.

Whites from France, England, and Portugal are the worst.  They went into countries like India, murdered millions, and then cry about how poor white people were treated there.  I get that here in Canada by various blacks and brown people.  Then I tell them my family immigrated here from Ukraine and Russia, and then their tunes change as they like such people (no historic troubles).

Vladimir79 wrote:The problem is... they don't assimilate.  

To their defense, they literally just got started. You need person to be born, educated and to grow up in Russia before you can asses the situation. It takes a lot of time.

First Chinese in USA assimilated very poorly. Fast forward several decades later and you have Asian gangsta' kids.

Russia just needs to be dedicated to doing it's own thing and this stuff will fall into place in due time.


As for China trying to invade Russia, it is possible...after they conquer Taiwan, both Koreas, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, Japan, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Laos, Cambodia, Bhutan, Nepal, Singapore and parts of India and Pakistan.

All small fry compared to Russia and with lot smaller risk of total extinction of Chinese population. Even without nukes it would still be freakin' nightmare for Chinese.

I say you have plenty of time to prepare...

Vladimir79 wrote:The problem is... they don't assimilate.  

After few generations I don't think that is a problem anymore.
Like PapaDragon said, ones born educate and grow up in some country will be assimilate better.
My grandparents came from China, doesn't seem like they have some problem living here (or they just didn't tell me.)
I'm 3rd generation and I learn chinese cultural from television more than my own parents lol.

And you are right about chinese control most economic here.
Most if not all of billionaire here having chinese roots and some still have connections there.
But as long as they consider themself as a thai I don't think that will be a problem though.

Thai cultural quite open for foreigner BTW. Things may be different up north.

My points are:

1: Do not underrate others.
Example,  South Africa is ruled by blacks now, whatever, it is ruled by blacks.
spain was ruled by blacks for 700 years, that's why spanish have dark skin, spainish do not look like European.


2. china get 1.4 billion people and nukes. china has the power to kill.

3. Only simple people will believe china and japan will be the friends of Russia.


4.If china and japan disappear,  it is the best.

zepia wrote:

Vladimir79 wrote:The problem is... they don't assimilate.  

After few generations I don't think that is a problem anymore.
Like PapaDragon said, ones born educate and grow up in some country will be assimilate better.
My grandparents came from China, doesn't seem like they have some problem living here (or they just didn't tell me.)
I'm 3rd generation and I learn chinese cultural from television more than my own parents lol.

And you are right about chinese control most economic here.
Most if not all of billionaire here having chinese roots and some still have connections there.
But as long as they consider themself as a thai I don't think that will be a problem though.

Thai cultural quite open for foreigner BTW. Things may be different up north.

Russian are whites.

Chinese and Tai are the same.

Russians being white didn't stop white germans trying to exterminate them half a century ago or US and UK whites ever since...

It is nothing to do with a race or ethnicity issue... it is about land and power and money.

Russia is no global super power in terms of economics yet, and to be honest clearly cannot rely on the international community to back them up because clearly the western led international community has shown it will support anyone who is against Russia... Ukraine, Japan, Kosovo, Albania etc etc.

Having said that Russia can defend itself and will continue to be able to do so in the forseable future... as mentioned the countries that should be fearing the current situation are small weak countries that would be scapegoated by the west and international community if they tried to keep domestic ownership of their land and assets.

This is not a china thing... it is a rich one percent thing... lots of rich people buying land in central otago here in NZ too...

kingodthequeens wrote:spain was ruled by blacks for 700 years, that's why spanish have dark skin, spainish do not look like European.

Yeah, no.

PapaDragon wrote:
As for China trying to invade Russia, it is possible...after they conquer Taiwan, both Koreas, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, Japan, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Laos, Cambodia, Bhutan, Nepal, Singapore and parts of India and Pakistan.

All small fry compared to Russia and with lot smaller risk of total extinction of Chinese population. Even without nukes it would still be freakin' nightmare for Chinese.

I say you have plenty of time to prepare...

If we didn't have nukes it is simply a matter of numbers. We can kill them 2 to 1 but in the end, China will win the war by attrition. That missile shield they were building didn't concern many capitals, but they were freaking out in the Kremlin.

There is a myth that numbers are a good substitute for anything else... that is of course bullshit.

If the Soviets won WWII because of numbers then they should have won in 1941... and China should have occupied Japan and not the other way around.

The fact is that the Soviets beat back the Germans because they learned how to fight and they had the numbers.

Why would all these Chinese settlers into Siberia care whether they are under Chinese or Russian rule?

The smartest thing the Russians can do is russify all its new immigrants to make them Russian and ignore ethnicity. I don't mean by force, but make them want to identify themselves as Russian rather than whatever their ethnicity is... make them proud to be Russian and maybe when hoards of Chinese soldiers start marching into Russian territory they will be shoulder to shoulder with all Russians in stopping this violation of international law.

Or you could isolate them and treat them like a 5th column... and you will of course get your wish because if anyone invades they will likely have more sympathy with the invader than the locals that did not welcome them.

Just my opinion of course.

Anyway, regarding the topic... the Chinese army is no real threat to Russia... any more than the US army is no real threat to Russia.

As Russia upgrades its armed forces it is improving its satellite capability... there is not much chance the Chinese could amass a force powerful enough to invade and conquer Siberia without being noticed.... just like there is no chance the US could move enough troops into Europe without being noticed for an invasion of western Russia.

Would add that conflict between Russia and China or Russia and India or even India and China is the US's biggest wet dream. they would likely do anything in their power to make it happen, and India, Russia, and China have the most to lose if it were ever to happen.

Easiest way for the US (bully) to defeat people who stand up to bullies (Russia, China, India etc) is to get those to stand up against them to fight amongst themselves...

China was enslaved for 2000 years.
The main reason is that china was very poor, they had no food at all.
So other countries could defeat those chinese who even had no pants to wear.
Now,How to deal with  millions Chinese who flood to Russia?

1) Chinese were enslaved by mongol, manchu, xianbei, Khitan, Jurchen empires.

Genghis khan's law, killing a chinese = killing a donkey,
Sorry to mention this.

Manchus ruled china for 300 years till 1911.
Manchu conquest of China - Wikipedia
The population rate was 100,000,000 chinese VS 1.000.000 manchus.

In WWII, Japan took the Chinese capital and lost only 2000 soldiers.
Battle of Nanking - Wikipedia


2) China was very poor,  Marco Polo  did not go to china at all.

In the past 2000 years.
There were more than 100 great Famines in china, people ate people.
China: Land of Famine by Walter H. Mallory.

In 1959-1961, there were 30,000,000 chinese died in starvation.
Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In chinese ming empire - general Lu Xiangsheng said that, many chinese soldiers had no pants to wear.

China still cant feed itself.
China and India both have over 1 billion people, it is like a person with 1000 pounds.They are half dead.

Water is certainly an important factor in China's food security. Some authors have argued that up to 70% of the country's grain production depends on irrigation. Since the water resources for agriculture in northern China are getting increasingly exhausted.
--- Can China Feed Itself? An Analysis of China's Food Prospects with Special Reference to Water Resources


Marco Polo  did not go to china at all.
Did Marco Polo Go to China? (book)
Marco Polo - Cracked.com

3) Analysis: Russia's Far East Turning Chinese
Peter Zeihan

Alexander Shaikin, in charge of controlling the Russian-Chinese border, said on June 29 that 1.5 million people from China have illegally entered the Russian Far East over the past 18 months.



Chinese could become the dominant ethnic group in the Russian Far East in 20 to 30 years. Such an occurrence would require an annual influx of about 250,000 to 300,000 Chinese, less than one-third the rate that Shaikin currently claims.

Only 7.4 million Russians populate the entire Russian Far East, versus more than 70 million in northeast China. The Russian Far East is comparatively empty, with only 1.3 people per kilometer.

The local Russian population is increasingly nervous. The governor of Primoskiy Kray, Yevgenii Nazdratenko, on June 1 called for relocating 5 million Russians from European Russia to the Far East.

4) Russia should stop Chinese flood to Russia. Russia can do it.

kingodthequeens wrote:There is only one way to deal with china - reduce chinese population to 0.

You're free to do that. Try your best

Japna invaded Russia's Far East, I do not know how many Russia were killed by japanese at that time.
In WWII, USA killed 1,000,000 japanese soldiers and lost 100,000.

china is as powerful as japan in WWII now.
It is the best to finish china now, unless you want get killed by chinese in future.

If there is a war between china and japan, it is the best.
let's that two yellows kill each other, and all get killed.

max steel wrote:

kingodthequeens wrote:There is only one way to deal with china - reduce chinese population to 0.

You're free to do that. Try your best

Japan invaded Russia's Far East, and killed many Russian there.
In WWII, japan killed 100,000 American soldiers.

China is as powerful as Japan in WWII.
If you want to protect yourself, you must finish china.


It is the best let japan and China to kill each other.
The death of China and Japan are the best for Russia, Europe, and America.