Anti-UAV improvised ideas

With the ever increasing UAV presence on the battlefield and more and more countries having access/producing UAV's of all different capabilities including suicide drones, the question comes which is the best and most efficient of destroying them. Of course any anti air system could do the job, but it would be a waste and pointless to use S-400, S-300, Tor, Buk to take down a cheap UAV, especially during a war situation where costs and ammo are such an important factor. And theres also of course laser systems being used and invested in.
But theres also the issue of having access to such systems, and if your armed forces budget is pretty low you won't want to use missile anti air systems to destroy UAV's which encroach your borders from countries which you have bad relations with who you aren't at war with but more so a political tit for tat. So the question is what systems could be used that are cost effective, and systems/equipment that may already be in your inventory that with some minor upgrades become efficient anti UAV systems.

first area of focus is on missiles systems.

older SAM systems static and self-propelled such as SA-1, SA-2, SA-3, SA-4, SA-5, SA-6, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13, and older MANPAD'S such as SA-7, SA-14, SA-16, could all be used just as they are, some of the poorer countries who stock SA-2, SA-3, SA-5, SA-6, SA-8, SA-13, may not be willing to use such systems due to cost of missiles which is fine as what i will talk about later will maybe a better option for them. Older SAM missile systems which maybe either be nearing shelf-life or not cut out out to take out modern aircraft still have a use against UAV's which lack counter measures, and travel at low speeds compared to aircraft.


second area of focus is anti aircraft guns systems.

such systems almost exist in every armed forces either in active service or in storage. It wouldn't take much for systems in storage to be brought back to active service. With some minor upgrades using newer or old radar systems and automatic targeting/fire control radar, opto-electronics etc etc, and your ready to go. The good thing about this option is its making use of what you already have and the ammo is cheap in consideration to missiles so it won't break the bank and firing a few hundred or even thousand rounds to take out a UAV which will no doubt cost more than the rounds fired.So this makes this option very attractive especially for poorer countries, the only draw back really is on range anti air guns dont tend to have the range as some of the larger/more modern missile systems. But in my view this is still a good option and a good use of older systems which would otherwise be obsolete in the modern anti aircraft role. Some countries have already adopted such systems Iran for example have the Mesbah-1 a system consisting of 4x ZSU23-2 (total of 8 barrels) and then they have the Saeer/sa-ir 100mm system which uses the old KS-19 which packs a punch and could also be used as a form of ground to ground artillery system. So which systems could be used? there's an abundance of weapons out there and all in various calibres, i will only mention soviet models. The list below is a quick list.

ZPU-1/2/4. 14.5mm
ZSU 23-2. 23.5mm
M1940 72-K. 25mm
1939 61-k. 37mm
S-60 57mm
M1939 52-K. 85mm
KS-19. 100mm
KS-30. 130mm

and self propelled systems
ZSU-23-4
ZSU-57-2
SA-19 Tunguska (Russia could use these when they are slowly replaced in their current role by Pantsir.)

but of course all these systems including the static SAM and MANPAD systems could be turned into self propelled systems using current vehicles in inventory new, old, and in storage. Such as the following list.

wheeled:
BRDM-1 and 2
BTR-40
BTR-152
BTR-60/70/80
Ural/Zil/Gaz/Kamaz trucks
Tigr-M
VPK-3927 Volk
GAZ Vodnik GAZ-3937
BPM-97
six-wheel amphibious BAZ-5937(sa-8 chassis),
ZIL 135 (tochka/bm-27 chassis)  

Tracked:
old GM chassis’s, (example Sa-6 chassis)
BTR-50
PT-76
BMD 1/2/3
BTR-D
MT-LB
AT-T, AT-L, ATS-59, tractors units.
T-34
T-54/55
T-62
T-64

some of the above systems offer different advantages from speed, terrain capability, armour, and amphibious capability. Vehicles such as the T-54/55 have already been used for mounting SA-3. But some the older system could easily be used such T-34, PT-76, BRDM-2, BTR-152, BTR-60, BMD1/2 would be suitable, the PT-76 would offer good terrain and amphibious capability as well as offering some armour protection. Me personally i think the best system to use would be BRDM-2, MT-LB, GAZ Vodnik GAZ-3937, BPM-97, add a ZSU-23-2 with 2-4 Sa-16 and you have a capable system. Of course all this depends on what you have available to you and what you can piece together. The amount of combinations are endless really.

one more area that could be utilised against UAV's is old/older fixed wing aircraft.

yet again this depends on what you have in current and storage inventory, and what condition it is in, there is no point in spending millions and millions just to get aircraft in an air worthy state just to combat UAV's. This option is only viable if its going to be cost effective for the user. The aircraft themselves dont have to be armed with highly sophisticated modern AA missiles, older AAM will do and remember that UAV's dont travel fast and dont have fixed fighter maneuverability so should be an easy target for the use of the aircraft's gun/canon's aircraft that come to mind are:

L-39
Mig-21
Su-17/22
Mig-23
Mig-25


and even older turbo-prop could be upgraded with gun pods and MANPAD systems, aircraft such as:

Yak-52
An-2
An-24
An-26
An-32

and then you've got the newer Yak-130 which would be ideal and more than capable.
the only downside to aircraft is operating/maintenance cost, but the other way to look at is if you used older/cheaper aircraft to go drone hunting this would free up the more modern/capable aircraft free to concentrate on the enemies fixed wing and bombing ground targets.

Although with some of the more expensive and modern UAV's their ceiling height could prove problem for some of the above systems mentioned, but most countries are not operating such sophisticated systems such as reaper and avenger and mostly operate home grown basic versions for now.

most of the above are just suggestions and really is only for a short term fix to the UAV problem, in till better/cheaper more available systems come on to the battlefield, i have no doubt UAV's will be taking out other UAV's rather shortly with the way UAV technology is developing, in fact i sure i read somewhere this was already in testing.

So if anyone has any suggestions, in put, views on the subject, and whether or not using older systems as mentioned is a good idea?

d_taddei2 wrote:... UAV presence on the battlefield and ... the best and most efficient of destroying them.

Excellent article, d_taddei2.


Some other possibilities are

1- gun-launched guided projectiles and missiles,

2- antitank missiles and their antiair and anti-UAV variants,

3- unguided rockets, like the Russian Trezubets (has sophisticated fusing options),

4- unguided barrage rockets,

5- antiair mines, like the Russian PVM types,

6- malwares (like the "Iranian" use of Duqu malware to capture the RQ-170) and various backdoor methods,

7- directed and area-coverage EM weapons (in addition to lasers),

8- and the most cost-effective, the ECM systems.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:... UAV presence on the battlefield and ... the best and most efficient of destroying them.

Excellent article, d_taddei2.


Some other possibilities are

1- gun-launched guided projectiles and missiles,

2- antitank missiles and their antiair and anti-UAV variants,

3- unguided rockets, like the Russian Trezubets (has sophisticated fusing options),

4- unguided barrage rockets,

5- antiair mines, like the Russian PVM types,

6- malwares (like the "Iranian" use of Duqu malware to capture the RQ-170) and various backdoor methods,

7- directed and area-coverage EM weapons (in addition to lasers),

8- and the most cost-effective, the ECM systems.

thanks Morpheus, and you have mentioned some very valid anti UAV methods, ECM and Malwares, are areas i totally forgot oops, i think EM weapons and laser will be the future for anti UAV, especially laser being used from UAV to UAV.

As other possibilities I should add the low-energetic anti-UAV cruise missiles and anti-UAV UAVs (one-time use and reusable).

Don't forget the Serbian solution to low and slow UAVs... fly beside them in a helo and shoot them with a PKM from the door.

Of course the easiest way to do it cheaply would be fixed guns on your own UAV that will just fly around shooting down enemy UAVs cheaply with grenade launchers.

the ideal would be a simple fixed time fuse in a 40mm grenade launcher round so you fly up behind the target UAV and when you get behind the target fire a grenade set to explode after a fixed period of time. A decent small palm top computer can do the calculations with the known time of flight of the grenade and the length of time of the fuse so the rounds will airburst around the target... a 2-3 round burst should suffice to destroy most light fragile UAVs before they even know what hit them.

the ammo would be cheap and the system pretty simple... you could charge teenagers in your country to come a play a computer game where the graphics are awesome and the targets are tricky....

GarryB wrote:Don't forget the Serbian solution to low and slow UAVs... fly beside them in a helo and shoot them with a PKM from the door.

Of course the easiest way to do it cheaply would be fixed guns on your own UAV that will just fly around shooting down enemy UAVs cheaply with grenade launchers.

the ideal would be a simple fixed time fuse in a 40mm grenade launcher round so you fly up behind the target UAV and when you get behind the target fire a grenade set to explode after a fixed period of time. A decent small palm top computer can do the calculations with the known time of flight of the grenade and the length of time of the fuse so the rounds will airburst around the target... a 2-3 round burst should suffice to destroy most light fragile UAVs before they even know what hit them.

the ammo would be cheap and the system pretty simple... you could charge teenagers in your country to come a play a computer game where the graphics are awesome and the targets are tricky....

Well, that's one of the variants of the "anti-UAV UAVs (one-time use and reusable)" mentioned in the post above.

It was a very serious lesson for Russia in 2008 when Israeli UAVs operated by the georgian military represented an awkward problem for the troops based in South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

A very small target with a small IR signature flying at 4km altitude is a very tricky target for airborne forces.

It is flying too high with too small an IR signature to get a proper lock on with MANPADS (though I suspect Verba would be ideal for the job now with the much better seeker), and the other standard AA system... the Towed ZU-23 lacks altitude capability.

the ideal solution would be Pantsir or TOR as they can handle the altitude and engage small IR.RCS targets with relatively cheap missiles.

The SA-13s lacked seeker sensitivity and BUK was overkill.

The main solutions were BUK and MiG-29 with R-73 as seen on video...

The best solution would be completely reusable and have air to air capability... so something cheap that can deal with targets with low IR signatures... which rules old model strelas out but Igla-S should be fine with its proximity fuse and the ability to get behind the target and fly up relatively close should allow very high kill probabilities, but I would add a 12.7mm HMG gun pod under the wings as a backup... perhaps even a twin barrel 23x115mm gun in a gunpod either under the belly of wings of the UAV.
reusable, and could be manually flown if needed to be flown manually or on automatic paths.

If they perfect Ugroza then two 7 shot 80mm rocket pods with laser guided rockets and a laser target marker would be a very cheap option... another option would be ATAKA/Shturm type missiles or Kornet with the advantage of not needing an IR signature to home in on.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:... and anti-UAV UAVs ...

Tajber, an anti-UAV UAV picket: