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Btw, we should start a new thread
More info available on the attack on Krasnogorovka sector. I was puzzled of why the Novorussians would attack precisely here, it was a response to mortar shelling on Donetsk residential areas from this outpost.
Scale seems to have been much larger than a simple coup de main against a platoon blockhouse. Given the panic in Ukrainian networks and the involvement of tanks and BMP it was at least a company sized attack. Casualties in this fight must have been into the dozens, on both sides, easily equating normal daily casualties on all the front.
The Novorussians not only took the position but even prowled all the way to Krasnogorovka proper, though these were just probing attacks during the pursuit phase.
Mage reckons that the casualties must be also high on the Novorussian side as it was the attacker, but all reports coincide that the Ukrops were taken by surprise and the position was easily taken. Most NAF casualties must have been incurred in the follow up fights, the probing towards the town and holding late against Ukrainian bombardments and counterattacks, though with the tables turned, the Ukranians must have suffered much more casualties in attempting to retake the position.
Mage believes that the own losses wich are significant, is why there has been silence in the Novorussian media regarding this operation. Though I believe it as as likely that it has been censored for political reasons, since this was the first time since 2015 that the NAF are allowed to make an attack and gain ground
http://chervonec-001.livejournal.com/1943325.html
Google trans. excerpt
Comment: IMO, "Mage" is wrong and misjudging events somewhat. There indeed was a Novorussian attack and was larger than a simple raid. The fact that they attacked at all, and did so with tank support triggered a panic among both the Ukranian defenders of the position, that fled as soon as they saw they were outnumbered and outgunned, and the Ukranian networks, wich activated the "The Russians are coming!" script, admitting ten dead in a single day is a fearful blow to the Ukrainian morale, wich keeps pretending there is no war and just there are a few casualties through accidents and non-combat losses everyday. As "Mage" points out, 10 dead that is just the daily average for the whole front on a quiet day.
So in order to cover tens of dead, they make a lot of noise and flag waving about a fraction of them, and attributing them to other causes (mines, accidental explosions) other than they have lost a position. Covering a big lie with a small lie with some truth in it.
Only a single prisoner was taken in the position, wich suggests most of the platoon was wiped out in the fight, that would make at least 20 dead in the first night alone. Judging by previous experience, and the intensity of the fighting reported probably the actual casualties are similar to the examples from the winter quoted above.
More info available on the attack on Krasnogorovka sector. I was puzzled of why the Novorussians would attack precisely here, it was a response to mortar shelling on Donetsk residential areas from this outpost.
Scale seems to have been much larger than a simple coup de main against a platoon blockhouse. Given the panic in Ukrainian networks and the involvement of tanks and BMP it was at least a company sized attack. Casualties in this fight must have been into the dozens, on both sides, easily equating normal daily casualties on all the front.
The Novorussians not only took the position but even prowled all the way to Krasnogorovka proper, though these were just probing attacks during the pursuit phase.
Mage reckons that the casualties must be also high on the Novorussian side as it was the attacker, but all reports coincide that the Ukrops were taken by surprise and the position was easily taken. Most NAF casualties must have been incurred in the follow up fights, the probing towards the town and holding late against Ukrainian bombardments and counterattacks, though with the tables turned, the Ukranians must have suffered much more casualties in attempting to retake the position.
Mage believes that the own losses wich are significant, is why there has been silence in the Novorussian media regarding this operation. Though I believe it as as likely that it has been censored for political reasons, since this was the first time since 2015 that the NAF are allowed to make an attack and gain ground
http://chervonec-001.livejournal.com/1943325.html
Google trans. excerpt
Here is a chronicle of events:
On the night from Thursday to Friday, from 13 to 14 July, the APU opened a mortar shell at Staromikhaylovka. I emphasize, not our positions, namely residential buildings. Two houses were damaged. One civilian was wounded. In the morning there was a report of the correspondent of VGTRK Alexander Sladkov.
- On the night from Friday to Saturday from 14 to 15 July, the shelling was repeated, but already more powerful, artillery worked.
- On Saturday evening, July 15, again, there was artillery shelling.
- On Sunday evening, July 16, again shelling and again destroyed houses in Staromikhaylovki.
- In the morning there was a report about the press service of the NM DNR.
- In the night from Monday to Tuesday 17 on 18 July, a civilian died in Staromikhaylovka, one more civilian was killed and another two were injured, another civilian was injured in Kuibyshev district.
- On Tuesday, July 18th, that part of the front was quiet.
- But on Wednesday July 19, Thursday July 20 and until Friday July 21, every evening and night Petrovsky district, Staromikhailovka Kirov district and the Kuibyshev district was subjected to strong mortar and artillery strikes. Every day there were wounded civilians, as well as destroyed houses and infrastructure.
Most likely, from 19 to 20 July, an order was given to suppress the mortar and artillery batteries of the APU with available means, which have been killing civilians and military republics for a week already. The next day, Ukrainian media filled the news with the fact that Novorussians attacked their positions and even beaten something there. Reported about the many dead servicemen of the Armed Forces and so on. Although according to the information provided by the Ukrainian media, 9 soldiers were quoted, and only 4 were killed in the Krasnogorovka district.
Notice in the Svetlodarsk arc area in December 2016, they had killed 80 soldiers and injured more than 200, but there was a silence in the Ukrainian media. The same situation occurred with the exacerbation of the YaBP in January 2017, there were also many deaths of about 60 servicemen and about 120 were wounded and were also quiet.
And here 9 was lost, and on all 450 km to the front and such attention.
Comment: IMO, "Mage" is wrong and misjudging events somewhat. There indeed was a Novorussian attack and was larger than a simple raid. The fact that they attacked at all, and did so with tank support triggered a panic among both the Ukranian defenders of the position, that fled as soon as they saw they were outnumbered and outgunned, and the Ukranian networks, wich activated the "The Russians are coming!" script, admitting ten dead in a single day is a fearful blow to the Ukrainian morale, wich keeps pretending there is no war and just there are a few casualties through accidents and non-combat losses everyday. As "Mage" points out, 10 dead that is just the daily average for the whole front on a quiet day.
So in order to cover tens of dead, they make a lot of noise and flag waving about a fraction of them, and attributing them to other causes (mines, accidental explosions) other than they have lost a position. Covering a big lie with a small lie with some truth in it.
Only a single prisoner was taken in the position, wich suggests most of the platoon was wiped out in the fight, that would make at least 20 dead in the first night alone. Judging by previous experience, and the intensity of the fighting reported probably the actual casualties are similar to the examples from the winter quoted above.
JohninMK
