Soviet era reserve vehicles.

You generally get bare minimum return when scrapping tanks... you can't just take the hull and melt it down and suddenly have 40 tons of high quality steel to sell on the open market.

Building shelters would cost more money than scrapping them will recover and then what do you do with the shelters when the contents are scrapped?

Reserve forces are soldiers from the 90s and 80s and 70s that can still fight that will be called up when needed.

Equipping them with weapons and equipment they likely trained on makes more sense than having to train them on the new stuff.

There is no point in using old tank hulls to make new IFVs when the new tank based vehicles will have tank based everything anyway.

Units that don't require tank level protection will operate in lighter vehicles.... for a reason.

Note in terms of tanks being kept or not it is not an accident that the scrapped tanks had 100mm rifled guns and 115mm smoothbore guns and the tanks to be retained have 125mm guns... Re-gunning with new model guns would allow new model ammo to be used by all tanks... obviously new comms and APS and ERA etc would also be added and new sights etc.

MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago?

When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles?

When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust?

If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials...

Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks?

Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes"

With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ?

I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army?

Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well?

How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc

Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so

This is how Object 187s look today, now imagine how look those 2k+ of T55s and T62s that RuMOD has in reserve.

Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so. They are ver interesting questions. I myself, I'm trying to find the answer to some.

I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army? About the warfare, the active force includes the warfare working every day in the defense of Russia. The reserve includes the warfare owned by the Russian Armed Forces that is stored and out of the daily work (as consequence nothing to do with other security forces outside the Armed Forces that you mentioned). The reserve warfare is used in conflicts when the Russian gouvernment wants not to touch its active force and need not it. I look less about the soldiers and its status.

When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust? For the warfare stored since years ago, the conditions have not been good. This begins to change for a little more modern warfare that begins to be stored recently.

If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials... The cost was very high for the big numbers of vehicles stored. Also to scrape them has a cost that was not affordable for all at the same time. The reserve warfare is to be used if needed, must be useful.

Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well? The reserve warfare is used many times by former veteran soldiers that worked with them before.

I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago? According to the data these 14000 infantry armoured vehicles were moved from active service to the reserve. At the time it was not a reserve of infantry armoured vehicles, now there is a reserve of 15500 vehicles. Type by type the total numbers remain very close to the initial numbers. Only the BTR-50 disappeared.

When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles? Likely the first step was to move them also from the active service to the reserve. But in this case it has been more scrapping activity, as we can see in the reports of the sales and auctions of scrapping material. Also in this case the war of Syria had an important effect, since it has been reported the procurement of T-55 and T-62 to Syria. It is necessary to remember that the war started in 2011, almost at the same time than the plan of decommissions and scrapping.

With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ? Russia stoped in 2010 the development and procurement of most of the programs like this, this included. They do for other countries.

Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes" Surely the war in Syria is absorving the old Russian T-55 and T-62. Likely all them, in order to keep the strength of the Syrian Armed Forces in close levels to 2010.

How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc With higher investment on maintenance surely these vehicles would remain longer, but it requires more money. The strategy of scrapping the oldest material proved to be wrong for the US and their allies. Now the US backed militias in Syria must fight in trucks vs the Syrian Armed Forces, that have enough old tanks to keep the advantage despite some loses.

Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks? The Russian strategy of keeping the old material proved to be right in the War of Syria. The oldest material is proving to be good enough to win this war. The BMP-1 will likely wait its turn in the line of procurement.

Thank you for the informative replies!

The weathering on object 187 is terrible and its only 30 years old, I can understand the poor condition tanks built before mid 1980s must be in. My country has less than 100 tanks and these are taken care of religiously, its hard to imagine leaving thousands of MBT out to rust or let them go. The scales of industry are unimaginable. So it would appear that as best can made out that over the last 2 years t55 & t62 have been scraped or left to their fate in junkyards. Wikipedia is very wrong in its webpage list of russian ground forces equipment, its saying there are still thousands in storage. Not a super high quality source i know, but only one i can find in english, for some reason warfare.be and warfare.ru dont work on my browser so i cannot see numbers they are listing for different pieces of equipment.

t64 is being given in small numbers to donbass and otherwise at this stage kept in storage for reserve forces to use for future hybrid conflicts similar to ukraine i suppose? I havent heard of any sales the last 2 years of t64s, only 50 or so to the congo and they were from ukraine I think. I think uzbekistan has something in the order of almost 1,000 t64 inherited from USSR. It sounds like BMP1 for now are still being used in small numbers but will then go for scraping and junkyards before the end of this decade with arrival of new platforms. With such large numbers of old soviet vehicles where are these junkyards, they must be colossal in their size!? Are they located in the middle of no-where in russia or are they close to populated areas? My country does not have military junkyards to my knowledge.

My numbers are not good - I think these 3 types of MBT added together are only 6,000 vehicles. What happened to the other 8,000 vehicles were there any notable sales to central asia or africa of this second hand equipment? North korea and afghanistan might have use for some of this stuff? From what I have seen sales to central asia have mostly been new items, not second hand e.g. T90, new t72s, new aircraft, bmp3s as there is a much larger profit to be made and it keeps arms industry working (reasonable).

Will the MTLBs be kept for future or are they slated to be pulled as well?

I wonder, once the syrian war is over the country will need replacement armaments and it will be bankrupt. It might be a good place to sell reserve equipment to afterall they would be familiar with it and i imagine prices that russia could get for them would be small and thus affordable for syria. Currently is russia supplying syria with some of its reserve vehicles as replacements for syrian losses? In the media i have only seen russia supplying brand new weapons like the yaks and t90s.

MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:Thank you for the informative replies!

The weathering on object 187 is terrible and its only 30 years old, I can understand the poor condition tanks built before mid 1980s must be in. My country has less than 100 tanks and these are taken care of religiously, its hard to imagine leaving thousands of MBT out to rust or let them go. The scales of industry are unimaginable. So it would appear that as best can made out that over the last 2 years t55 & t62 have been scraped or left to their fate in junkyards. Wikipedia is very wrong in its webpage list of russian ground forces equipment, its saying there are still thousands in storage. Not a super high quality source i know, but only one i can find in english, for some reason warfare.be and warfare.ru dont work on my browser so i cannot see numbers they are listing for different pieces of equipment.

t64 is being given in small numbers to donbass and otherwise at this stage kept in storage for reserve forces to use for future hybrid conflicts similar to ukraine i suppose? I havent heard of any sales the last 2 years of t64s, only 50 or so to the congo and they were from ukraine I think. I think uzbekistan has something in the order of almost 1,000 t64 inherited from USSR. It sounds like BMP1 for now are still being used in small numbers but will then go for scraping and junkyards before the end of this decade with arrival of new platforms. With such large numbers of old soviet vehicles where are these junkyards, they must be colossal in their size!? Are they located in the middle of no-where in russia or are they close to populated areas? My country does not have military junkyards to my knowledge.

My numbers are not good - I think these 3 types of MBT added together are only 6,000 vehicles. What happened to the other 8,000 vehicles were there any notable sales to central asia or africa of this second hand equipment? North korea and afghanistan might have use for some of this stuff? From what I have seen sales to central asia have mostly been new items, not second hand e.g. T90, new t72s, new aircraft, bmp3s as there is a much larger profit to be made and it keeps arms industry working (reasonable).

Will the MTLBs be kept for future or are they slated to be pulled as well?

I wonder, once the syrian war is over the country will need replacement armaments and it will be bankrupt. It might be a good place to sell reserve equipment to afterall they would be familiar with it and i imagine prices that russia could get for them would be small and thus affordable for syria. Currently is russia supplying syria with some of its reserve vehicles as replacements for syrian losses? In the media i have only seen russia supplying brand new weapons like the yaks and t90s.

Look even worse inside:




Now when its about numbers of reserve, some broad estimates are that only about 3k of T-55s and T-62s remain with about same amout of T-64s. Rest seem to be mainly scrapped , turned into targets on proving grounds, some canibalised completely and sold for spares around the world.

Scrapping the tanks is actually expencive job. You need metalworks with big enough cranes and furnaces that can lift whole body of the tank to the melting "pot"  because cutting them is verrryyy expencive. They just disasemble them and then lift piece by piece without cutting, if cutting is required it kinda gets horribly expencive.

Price of T-55 and T-62 on the market is 120-150 USD per ton, hence they are so cheap its not even worth scrapping them.

MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:Thank you for the informative replies!

The weathering on object 187 is terrible and its only 30 years old, I can understand the poor condition tanks built before mid 1980s must be in. My country has less than 100 tanks and these are taken care of religiously, its hard to imagine leaving thousands of MBT out to rust or let them go. The scales of industry are unimaginable. So it would appear that as best can made out that over the last 2 years t55 & t62 have been scraped or left to their fate in junkyards. Wikipedia is very wrong in its webpage list of russian ground forces equipment, its saying there are still thousands in storage. Not a super high quality source i know, but only one i can find in english, for some reason warfare.be and warfare.ru dont work on my browser so i cannot see numbers they are listing for different pieces of equipment.

t64 is being given in small numbers to donbass and otherwise at this stage kept in storage for reserve forces to use for future hybrid conflicts similar to ukraine i suppose? I havent heard of any sales the last 2 years of t64s, only 50 or so to the congo and they were from ukraine I think. I think uzbekistan has something in the order of almost 1,000 t64 inherited from USSR. It sounds like BMP1 for now are still being used in small numbers but will then go for scraping and junkyards before the end of this decade with arrival of new platforms. With such large numbers of old soviet vehicles where are these junkyards, they must be colossal in their size!? Are they located in the middle of no-where in russia or are they close to populated areas? My country does not have military junkyards to my knowledge.

My numbers are not good - I think these 3 types of MBT added together are only 6,000 vehicles. What happened to the other 8,000 vehicles were there any notable sales to central asia or africa of this second hand equipment? North korea and afghanistan might have use for some of this stuff? From what I have seen sales to central asia have mostly been new items, not second hand e.g. T90, new t72s, new aircraft, bmp3s as there is a much larger profit to be made and it keeps arms industry working (reasonable).

Will the MTLBs be kept for future or are they slated to be pulled as well?

I wonder, once the syrian war is over the country will need replacement armaments and it will be bankrupt. It might be a good place to sell reserve equipment to afterall they would be familiar with it and i imagine prices that russia could get for them would be small and thus affordable for syria. Currently is russia supplying syria with some of its reserve vehicles as replacements for syrian losses? In the media i have only seen russia supplying brand new weapons like the yaks and t90s.

even if Russia wants to sell its old t-55/62/64, BMPs, MTLBs etc they must find customers to buy it. You cant expect that russia offers for example to Uzbekistan to sell them old stuff and they just say yes we buy it. Why to do it? Are they going to have a war to need even old tanks?? of course no
North Korea is a different case. There is embargo from UN and Russia also support it. The only equipment they have sold to N.Korea after the USSR era are some old BTRs and in very small numbers. And they have copied those types and produse their own tanks on old soviet type tank basis.
Afghanistan has taken old equipment from a lot of countries but i think its in the form of donation. I doubt that they can give money even to buy sth old. Their Mi-17s are with US payment.
And what we havent consider enough is that old T-55, BMP-1 almost exist in all these countries we discuss. Afghanistan, african countries already have them from soviet era. Look the Nicaragua example, they recently took T-72s from Russia, they didnt take T-55/T-62

So for this old stuff the options are scraping or donation in small numbers is my conclusion

I do not know if the pictures of the object 187 are from 2016 or before. It is necessary to take into account that these are prototypes of a tank that was not accepted and entered not in service. I really do not think that the stored T-55 or T-62 since the 1980s would be in worse condition. I doubt it.

My understanding was that they were very keen to get rid of the older tank types to reduce the types of ammo they need to stockpile for future use.

Having T-34s in reserve means you have to keep 85mm ammo for them to be able to use.

The same with the T-54/55 and T-62 where 100mm and 115mm ammo would need to be kept in stock to allow their use.

AFAIK they actively removed old vehicles from the inventory including the T-64 and currently have only tanks with 125mm main guns.

Upgrades and addons have mainly focussed on improving performance by replacing old equipment with new unified equipment.

Originally the T-80 was a separate vehicle family that had nothing in common with the T-72 family except external looks. The current T-80s will have had upgrades and changes to make them more like the T72/90 family.

As such I would say the T-54/55/62 vehicles you will see these days in Russia are for the purposes of selling upgrades to client states or target practise vehicles.

GarryB wrote:My understanding was that they were very keen to get rid of the older tank types to reduce the types of ammo they need to stockpile for future use.

Having T-34s in reserve means you have to keep 85mm ammo for them to be able to use.

The same with the T-54/55 and T-62 where 100mm and 115mm ammo would need to be kept in stock to allow their use.

AFAIK they actively removed old vehicles from the inventory including the T-64 and currently have only tanks with 125mm main guns.

Upgrades and addons have mainly focussed on improving performance by replacing old equipment with new unified equipment.

Originally the T-80 was a separate vehicle family that had nothing in common with the T-72 family except external looks. The current T-80s will have had upgrades and changes to make them more like the T72/90 family.

As such I would say the T-54/55/62 vehicles you will see these days in Russia are for the purposes of selling upgrades to client states or target practise vehicles.

i agree, Russia should be pushing sales of T-54/55/62, i would imagine it would be fairly easy to upgrade the gun of the T-62 to 125mm and as for the T-64 i would also imagine T-72 upgrades could be applied. An upgraded T-64 would still pose a threat to other tanks. And as for the T-55 and T-62 these would still pose a threat to AFV, and be ideal to provide additional fire support for ground troops, i think the conflict in Syria has proved just how effective and usefull the T-55 has been and with only local upgrades in terms of caged armour and some basic North Korean upgrades have made them capable in this type of conflict. I think it all depends on many things, the current and future threat facing the purchasing country, cost, maintainence, ease of use/training, and if they currently have them already in stock. The T-55 is easy to use and maintain, light weight (in relation to other tanks) which in certain countries can be of use if there is many bridges and type of terrain which other heavier tanks might not be suitable.

Russia is kinda lucky in the fact that they have something to sell for everyone in various budgets and needs, there will be some countries who currently have T-55/T-62 which might be looking for something heavier so Russia has the option of selling upgraded T-64 and T-72, and possibly T-80. And then they have the T-55/T-62 which they can sell upgraded for the cheaper/specific needs markets. And then the T-90 for countries who what and very good up to date modern fighting tank.

A for Russia having T-55 in reserve this will be only for resale, Russia has enough T-72 to use these for reserve forces, and with upgrades these are very capable tanks, hence many T-72 have been brought back out of storage upgraded and replaced some of the more expensive to run T-80.

I think the T-80 could prove a diffuclt item to sell on the international market, ideally the engine needs replacing to make it cost effective to maintain and use, but with upgrades already in existance for the T-72 (which Russia has 1,000's of) then it doesn't make sense to invest money in engine upgrades on the T-80. Although i am not sure if this has been done already or not. So the future of the T-80's i am unsure of what Russia has planned for them. Ideally Russia should focus on selling off T-55/T-62/T-64, then focus on selling the T-80 (if upgrades already exist) then on reducing T-72 numbers but keep enough in reserve for its own needs.

As for the T-34 only real use now is infantry support where its 85mm gun still packs enough punch to destroy light armour/AFV, and ideal for bunkers/buildings. But lacking decent armour if could be vulnerable. Realistically its the chassis that has any use i know Syria has used it for mounting D-30 122mm howitzer, so you could ideally mount just about anything on it if you need a tracked chassis for the job, but then the MT-LB is better suited and a better vehicle.

i agree, Russia should be pushing sales of T-54/55/62, i would imagine it would be fairly easy to upgrade the gun of the T-62 to 125mm and as for the T-64 i would also imagine T-72 upgrades could be applied.

Half the problem is that the countries that still operate T-54/55/62 are poor countries they are not going to make a huge amount of money out of... it is not a rich market.

The other half of the problem is that most of the upgrades of the older tanks simply are based on putting equipment and systems from T-72 and newer vehicles on them... so it would be simpler to just sell upgraded T-72s or T-90s instead.

the easiest and cheapest way to put a 125mm gun and its auto loader on a T-54/55/62 tank is to replace the turret with the turret from a T-72.

The easiest way to upgrade the engine is to put the engine from an upgraded T-72 which will require the upgraded transmission from an upgraded T-72 as well.

You end up replacing existing parts with parts from newer tanks... it is quicker and cheaper and easier to just sell upgraded T-72s or T-90s... the former as the cheap option and the latter as the better performance option.

It is the same in aircraft... instead of MiG-23 or MiG-21 upgrades buying MiG-29M2 or MiG-35 is more in the interests of the Russian military industrial complex.

An upgraded T-64 would still pose a threat to other tanks. And as for the T-55 and T-62 these would still pose a threat to AFV, and be ideal to provide additional fire support for ground troops, i think the conflict in Syria has proved just how effective and usefull the T-55 has been and with only local upgrades in terms of caged armour and some basic North Korean upgrades have made them capable in this type of conflict. I think it all depends on many things, the current and future threat facing the purchasing country, cost, maintainence, ease of use/training, and if they currently have them already in stock. The T-55 is easy to use and maintain, light weight (in relation to other tanks) which in certain countries can be of use if there is many bridges and type of terrain which other heavier tanks might not be suitable.

For such customers the upgrade gun is not necessary... better optics and fire control systems, improved armour like cage and NERA, APS systems, and better communications systems are low cost but improve the performance and make them rather more effective.

Russia is kinda lucky in the fact that they have something to sell for everyone in various budgets and needs, there will be some countries who currently have T-55/T-62 which might be looking for something heavier so Russia has the option of selling upgraded T-64 and T-72, and possibly T-80. And then they have the T-55/T-62 which they can sell upgraded for the cheaper/specific needs markets. And then the T-90 for countries who what and very good up to date modern fighting tank.

Would be better if they could get rid of all the very old stuff and sell newer stuff instead as it would be easier to maintain and give better performance.

There are many situations where any sort of tank is better than nothing.

By the end of 2017, after the last decommission wave, and the needs of supplies caused by the wars in Donbass and in Syria, some types of self propelled weapons will likey be totally out of the arsenals of the Russian Armed Forces (including of the reserve). Only for the T-64 the timeline of potential supplies to friend countries of Russia can be longer. In some of these cases, not well updated sources like The Military Balance keep them as present still, but their data are erratic with the time. Bolded the weapons that have been present in Syria:

SU-122

ASU-57
BM-14
BM-16
PT-76
ASU-85
ZSU-57-2

FROG-7

BTR-50 (TMB2004-2005 1000 units; TMB2017 >0 units)
SA-9 (TMB2004-2005 >0 units; TMB2017 >0 units)
BM-13 (TMB2004-2005 <50 units; TMB2017 100 units)
T-62 (including engineering variants) (TMB2004-2005 3000 units; TMB2017 2500 units)
T-55 (including engineering variants) (TMB2004-2005 <1360 units; TMB2017 >2800 units)
T-64 (including engineering variants) (TMB2004-2005 4350 units; TMB 2017 2000 units )[/color]

GT-MU
T-54 (including engineering variants) (TMB2004-2005 0 units; TMB2017 >0 units)
AT-T

It seems that the State Armament Program 2018-2025 will not have an effect of exit of some material in the reserve.

The oldest material unlikely to reach 2018 in Russia because of the needs to help Syria.

In the refered to the vehicles present in the reserve, fist in line for future help would be::

T-64

BTR-60
BMD-1

Not in the reserve, but I would expect the Iveco LMV out of the Russian Armed Forces, but present without problems in the Russian Security Forces and other gouvernmental agencies and ministries.

So what do you think will be the last Soviet armoured vehicle to be in front line service????

For me personally i think it will be the MT-LB although I think the T-72 would be second. (And non armour vehicle would be the Bm-21.)
Main reason for my choice is down to replacement and usefulness of the MT-LB. Some people have stated the Kurganets will replace the MT-LB however I believe that it will replace AFV first before even considering the replacement of the MT-LB and that will likely take many years. And I am still not 100% convinced that kurganets will even replace it, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia doesn't design a new vehicle for the replacement of MT-LB possibly using a loose design on the kurganets.

But as it stands the MT-LB is cheap, reliable, good mobility, fit for purpose, and highly versatile, So no need for quick replacement. And it's not designed for fighting etc so hence T-72 will likely be replaced before the MT-LB due to being a direct fighting role although I am sure T-72 will be around for a long time in front line service before being fully put in reserve.

d_taddei2 wrote:So what do you think will be the last Soviet armoured vehicle to be in front line service????

For me personally i think it will be the MT-LB although I think the T-72 would be second. (And non armour vehicle would be the Bm-21.)
Main reason for my choice is down to replacement and usefulness of the MT-LB. Some people have stated the Kurganets will replace the MT-LB however I believe that it will replace AFV first before even considering the replacement of the MT-LB and that will likely take many years. And I am still not 100% convinced that kurganets will even replace it, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia doesn't design a new vehicle for the replacement of MT-LB possibly using a loose design on the kurganets.

But as it stands the MT-LB is cheap, reliable, good mobility, fit for purpose, and highly versatile, So no need for quick replacement. And it's not designed for fighting etc so hence T-72 will likely be replaced before the MT-LB due to being a direct fighting role although I am sure T-72 will be around for a long time in front line service before being fully put in reserve.

Talking about MT-LBM or Regular MT-LB's?

The MT-LB will remain for awhile we still use M113's

Granted we will replace them quickly once the Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicle Program selects a choice vehicle.

d_taddei2 wrote:So what do you think will be the last Soviet armoured vehicle to be in front line service????

For me personally i think it will be the MT-LB although I think the T-72 would be second. (And non armour vehicle would be the Bm-21.)
Main reason for my choice is down to replacement and usefulness of the MT-LB. Some people have stated the Kurganets will replace the MT-LB however I believe that it will replace AFV first before even considering the replacement of the MT-LB and that will likely take many years. And I am still not 100% convinced that kurganets will even replace it, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia doesn't design a new vehicle for the replacement of MT-LB possibly using a loose design on the kurganets.

But as it stands the MT-LB is cheap, reliable, good mobility, fit for purpose, and highly versatile, So no need for quick replacement. And it's not designed for fighting etc so hence T-72 will likely be replaced before the MT-LB due to being a direct fighting role although I am sure T-72 will be around for a long time in front line service before being fully put in reserve.

I agree with MT-LB(µ). Its basically a tractor that most people can operate with little training, and a reliable workhorse which is easily adaptable for a plethora of roles.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:So what do you think will be the last Soviet armoured vehicle to be in front line service????

For me personally i think it will be the MT-LB although I think the T-72 would be second. (And non armour vehicle would be the Bm-21.)
Main reason for my choice is down to replacement and usefulness of the MT-LB. Some people have stated the Kurganets will replace the MT-LB however I believe that it will replace AFV first before even considering the replacement of the MT-LB and that will likely take many years. And I am still not 100% convinced that kurganets will even replace it, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia doesn't design a new vehicle for the replacement of MT-LB possibly using a loose design on the kurganets.

But as it stands the MT-LB is cheap, reliable, good mobility, fit for purpose, and highly versatile, So no need for quick replacement. And it's not designed for fighting etc so hence T-72 will likely be replaced before the MT-LB due to being a direct fighting role although I am sure T-72 will be around for a long time in front line service before being fully put in reserve.

Talking about MT-LBM or Regular MT-LB's?

The MT-LB will remain for awhile we still use M113's

Granted we will replace them quickly once the Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicle Program selects a choice vehicle.

There's many variants in use in Russian forces so as a whole they are very similar. M113 are an APC while MT-LB are a multi purpose vehicle with much more uses and variants.

The MT-LB is very widely used in an enormous range of vehicle types... from the original artillery tractor and troop carrier where the snow is too deep for BMPs through all sorts of engineer models command vehicles, Radar platforms, transport types and other modified types.

The BTR and BMP vehicles are also widely used in various modifications too.

Would be too hard to guess... and we probably would not know for certain for 200 years anyway.

1295th Central storage base for armored vehicles in Primorye

Photo-report about the everyday life of the 1295th Central storage base for armored vehicles in Arsenyev (Primorsky Krai), author Vitaly Ankov

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3164365.html

George1 wrote:1295th Central storage base for armored vehicles in Primorye

Photo-report about the everyday life of the 1295th Central storage base for armored vehicles in Arsenyev (Primorsky Krai), author Vitaly Ankov

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3164365.html

There is some old material still present in the base, but ready to go to Syria in the short term.

Some vehicles and equipment could effectively still be sold off or used to sweeten defence deals and then u have the equipment etc thats too old for anyone to want other museums or collector's which is a small market. But I always thought that Russia is being too slow at selling off items before they reach a point of nobody showing interest in them. Take 2s5 and 2s3 they sitting with shitloads of them and yet no movement. Ok yes keep some in storage for syria type situations but even then there sitting with too many and nobody showing any interest in the systems for obvious reasons. Russia runs the risk now of these becoming nothing but scrap which for such vehicles is time consuming and it's always better to sell than scrap.

Well of course the function of a reserve is to be plan B when needed... so as long as it still functions why not keep it in reserve for some low intensity conflict, or friend in need.

It would not be too hard to work out what countries still use these old systems and make offers of parts or extra systems as their own systems wear out... not everyone needs state of the art stuff.

But of course as I mentioned above most upgrades involve retrofitting components and systems from newer models that are themselves obsolete so rather than upgrade a countries T-55s it makes more sense to sell them T-72s with minor low cost upgrades as an example.

Ask any shop owner and there is always a huge amount of stock that just sits and never moves no matter what price you put on it... recovering money or actually using stuff is the ideal, but some times it ends up as training targets or monuments in small towns...

For conflicts outside the own territory, reserve becomes Plan A.

It is very important, not something to waste.

Russian Ministry of Defense Receives 30 T-34-85 Tanks from Laos

As the TASS news agency reported on January 9, 2019, three dozen T-34 tanks arrived in Russia, making a multi-mile journey across the sea from Southeast Asia. In the framework of military-technical cooperation, the Laotian Ministry of Defense handed over 30 tracked vehicles to the military department of Russia in fully operational condition. This was reported in the press service of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, noting that the equipment "until recently was in service with the army of Laos."


T-34-85 tanks of Czechoslovak production stored in the People’s Army of Laos, 2018 (c) shot from the program “Military Acceptance” of the TV channel “Star” (via dambiev.livejournal.com)

“During the visit of Russian Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu to Laos in January last year, agreements were reached on the return of T-34 tanks to Russia,” the Russian military department noted. “The equipment has already covered more than 4,500 km by sea and arrived to Vladivostok. Then by rail it will be delivered to the Moscow region, to the city of Naro-Fominsk ".

The Defense Ministry explained that the T-34 is considered to be the best tank of its time, they have set "a dozen records, which, apparently, will never be able to beat." Among them - the achievement of mass release. In the period from 1940 to 1946, more than 58 thousand units of this machine were produced. However, seven decades after the end of World War II, there were very few active samples.

The equipment transferred by the Lao side is planned to be used during the Victory parades in various cities of Russia, for updating museum exhibits, as well as for making films about the Great Patriotic War.

From the side of bmpd, let us point out that, until very recently, the T-34-85 tanks that were in service with the People’s Army of Laos, according to known data, are Czechoslovak-made vehicles from the mid-1950s.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3487883.html

A battalion of T-34-85 tanks was created in the Kantemirov tank division.

As reported by the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on January 20, 2019, 30 T-34 tanks donated by the Russian military to the Lao army arrived in Naro-Fominsk situated near Moscow.

As Deputy Defense Minister General of the Army Dmitry Bulgakov said at the ceremony of meeting the combat vehicles, the tanks would be available to the Kantemirovskaya division. In the near future, he said, tank crews will begin preparations for the Victory Day parade on Red Square. Also, combat vehicles will participate in historical television and film projects.

“Based on the instructions of the Minister of Defense, the Chief of the General Staff, a decision was made to create a T-34 battalion. The consolidated battalion will be stationed in Naro-Fominsk, in the 4th Guards Kantemirovskaya division, ”the division commander Vladimir Zavadsky said at the ceremony.

According to him, the battalion will be ready to carry out the tasks assigned to it from March 1.











https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3501223.html

These should be thought of like how UK still has ceremonial horse cavalry units etc.
I wonder if they'll include previously restored vehicles?

Won't stop about a gazillion propaganda pieces & little snide additions to other topics 'After the failure of Armata Russia is so desperate to fill out its Aggressive Russian Expansionist Russia Aggression army that its recommissioning WWII era tanks!!111!1!11'

Those post-war Czech built T-34-85s sure are nicer finished than the war builds though