Russian Tanks ERA and APS

First info coming slowly about the new kind of dynamic protection, today named named "Монолит", to which i had refered several times, based on new working mechanism, for heavy family of armoured vehicles class "Армата" that will be integrated in serial production (in place of the interim "Малахите") and based on the breakthrough in what the renowed "НИИ Стали" has named energy materials.


[url=http://www.niistali.ru/upload/iblock/e29/90th anniversary of GABTU-7.pdf]http://www.niistali.ru/upload/iblock/e29/90th anniversary of GABTU-7.pdf[/url]

Fixed link

Some interesting tid bits are:
- these "energetic materials" work on the principle of "local dispensation of energy in a narrow area"...whatever that means, but the text's description sounds like they don't replace composite and reactive armor but will be used additionally
- the Bumerang vehicle is apparently the first to receive a new kind of defence system against top attack munitions, which is based on "new physical principles" and doesn't work with projectiles or explosives and thus is safe for surrounding infantry
- the Kurganets will also get that system and apparently uses not just ceramics in its composite armor but also aluminum (could explain why it's so light)
- the T-14 uses "ultra-high-strength steel 44S-SV-Sh" that was newly developed
- the Bumerang is listed as employing some stealth technologies, while no such mention is made for the Kurganets

- these "energetic materials" work on the principle of "local dispensation of energy in a narrow area"...whatever that means, but the text's description sounds like they don't replace composite and reactive armor but will be used additionally

Would suspect it means that a brick that is hit in its lower corner will localise the energy and distortion to damage the incoming projectile to the point where a follow up shot that hits the top corner of the same brick that part of the brick will localise the energy and distortion to act on that projectile... rather than the first projectile effectively using up the projectile stopping properties of the whole brick with the first impact.

When old HE filled bricks were used up with being hit because the entire brick was activated and the effect was not localised to the impact point and the impact penetrator.

Yeah after reading some other sources it seems that we're talking about some kind of "plasmadynamic armor", where a big electric charge is flowing through the penetrator (APFSDS) or jet (HEAT) as they penetrate, reaching very high temperatures (tens of thousands of Kelvin) and thus, in the case of APFSDS, melting the penetrator, which makes it easier to deform, and, in the case of both, the large moving charge's magnetic field will help distort the penetrator or jet and thus greatly reduce their penetration depth. I'm not sure that any actual explosive is involved in this new "Monolit" armor anymore...unlike the Malachit, which can still be found on the Kurganets, as per the document, and is "simply" an improvement over Relikt ERA with twice the efficacy.

Does anyone have more info on what this new anti-top-attack system "based on new physical principles" and "not using projectiles or explosives" is supposed to be? It is definitely distinct from Monolit, as per the document. It's also weird that the document doesn't say that the T-14 will get it...I guess it means that Monolit will be applied to the top of T-14 as well and they think that will be enough.

The sides of the tank hull will be strengthened with a hinged dynamic protection in rigid containers.
MOSCOW, September 28. /TASS/. The T-90M tank in the course of further modernization is proposed to be equipped with the advanced active protection complex "Arena-M", as follows from the materials of the 38th Scientific Research Testing Institute of Armored Armored Weapons and Equipment (NII BTWT) of the Russian Ministry of Defense, available to TASS.
The specialists of the Research Institute believe that for the period till 2025 the upgraded T-72B3M, T-80BVM and T-90M will retain the parity with the main battle tanks of foreign countries by their capabilities and efficiency. After 2025, it will be necessary to continue upgrading the Russian tanks.
"As part of further work to improve the T-90M tank's protection, it is proposed to equip the tank with the Arena-M active protection system. In the front part of the hull, instead of the dynamic protection system currently being installed, the tank must be dynamically protected by the Armata T-14," the Institute's materials say.
In addition, the sides of the hull will be strengthened with hinged dynamic protection in rigid containers. Electromagnetic protection systems and anti-tank guidance system countermeasures complex similar to that on the T-14 tank, as well as automatic fire-fighting system with multiple action with autonomous power supply and "Lesochek" type interference generator to combat radio-controlled mines and explosive devices are designed to increase tank survivability.
The T-90M "Breakthrough" tank is a deep upgrade version of the T-90 tank. The vehicle has a brand new turret, which differs from the serial one, and a more powerful engine. The "Breakthrough" is equipped with a new multichannel sight, which ensures the use of weapons at any time of the day. In addition, the ability to exchange data in real time with other vehicles has become one of the main features of the upgraded tank. The T-90M armor is equipped with a special anti-slip coating, the same one used on the newest T-14 "Armata". The first batch of T-90Ms entered the Russian Armed Forces this spring.

https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/1709772.html

where a big electric charge is flowing through the penetrator (APFSDS) or jet (HEAT) as they penetrate, reaching very high temperatures (tens of thousands of Kelvin) and thus, in the case of APFSDS, melting the penetrator, which makes it easier to deform, and, in the case of both, the large moving charge's magnetic field will help distort the penetrator or jet and thus greatly reduce their penetration depth.

Interesting... the British were working on something like this but the whole vehicle had an inner and outer layer... it wasn't an add on armour... and the enormous currents they said would explode/destroy the penetrator whether it was a solid penetrator like APFSDS or the plasma beam of a HEAT round when it completed the circuit and received the enormous charge.

Interesting if they have managed to make a material that does that when impacted... like Peizio crystals.... using the energy of the impact/penetrator against itself...

GarryB wrote:Interesting... the British were working on something like this but the whole vehicle had an inner and outer layer... it wasn't an add on armour... and the enormous currents they said would explode/destroy the penetrator whether it was a solid penetrator like APFSDS or the plasma beam of a HEAT round when it completed the circuit and received the enormous charge.

Interesting if they have managed to make a material that does that when impacted... like Peizio crystals.... using the energy of the impact/penetrator against itself...

Yeah I heard about that as well; I got some of the additional info from this article, which actually also talks about a gap, which, when closed by a penetrator, will trigger the electrical discharge; so it sounds rather similar to what the Brits are up to, but likely, going from some other statements, is much more localized / modularized. I do doubt that converting the penetrator's kinetic energy would be enough, though, given the extreme energy levels they're talking about and the fact that they talk about "capacitors"...sounds more like these armor modules would need to be charged by a generator.
As to "exploding the penetrator": that may well happen as they state plasma pressures of up to 1 kPa and temperatures of up to 30k Kelvin...the comment about a magnetic field distorting the penetrator was simply my own speculative ramblings, since moving charges create magnetic fields and thus exert force on, e.g. a HEAT jet or an APFSDS, which (presumably) is partially ionized (through the massive charge flowing through it, though in the case of Tungsten it would be ferromagnetic anyway and DU is at least paramagnetic), which IIUC would be perpendicular to the movement of the penetrator and could therefore distort it.

I hope the current T-14s in production will get this as I'd really like to see it and find out more! It could be that only a second tranch after 2022, after the first 100 are produced and state tests concluded, will get it though; we'll see. I doubt they will be exporting it, though; probably export T-14s would get Malachit, which is still top-of-the-line ERA.

The talk of the next gen tank to replace the T-14 included mention it was going to be two connected chassis with a 3,000 hp gas turbine... which would be ideal for generating lots of electrical power for perhaps electric armour and of course an EM powered gun, with electric drive chassis likely essential too.

Will be a bit like Star Trek in the sense of transferring power to the gun to fire and then to the armour and propulsion to get away.... and absorb return fire....

I wonder if an enormous electrical jolt could effect the plasma of a HEAT warhead explosion an perhaps spread it out into a sheet rendering its penetration performance inert.

I also wonder if previous generations of ERA type material can be used as well as this new electric one so you might have his electric one on the outside and then Cactus or Relick, and then the base armour to improve protection from a variety of threats.

Imagine if that was your job... they give you a big 125mm smoothbore gun and different armour technologies and you have to shoot the armour and look at how the penetrator works and is effected by the armour types to work out the best combination and order...

What a job...

thegopnik wrote:It's not yet mentioned that monolit is plasma dynamic armor. And it looks like your mixing two sources up. One source stated armour that uses energy. The 30,000 Kelvin source talks about using projectiles as active protection. But the future russia sees is using lasers for APS and now mentions of plasma projectiles

Hmm you're right...to be honest I only skimmed the article, after I found it when looking through Mindstorm's posts in this very thread (further back, from 2018), where he referred to it as "dynamic protection system", which in directly translated Russian typically means reactive armor, not APS. But reading it more carefully now it does indeed seem more like an APS and the "conductor closing the gap" may simply be part of the mechanism rather than a penetrator...it also talks about bringing elements on a trajectory against the incoming projectile and that the system would be a "plasmadynamic launcher"...I guess I should be more careful with my speculations in the future and actually read the articles fully

However, I'll still make one speculation (): could it be that this "plasmadynamic launcher" is that anti-top-attack system talked about in the NII Stali publication?

Either way, I'm super excited to hear more about Monolit in the future and see Russian vehicles fire clouds of plasma to vaporize incoming projectiles

i am just happy to see they are buying ARENA-M for their T-90s finally... with funding through use the companies that make it can refine and improve the design to make it cheaper and more effective.

The original design had a semicircle of munitions around the front of the turret that directed fragments forward and downwards to intercept incoming rounds but to prevent danger to friendly troops on the ground nearby.

I always thought launching them up high in the air to fire down was clever to prevent friendly fire incidents, but also that targets coming in in a top attack diving profile could have munitions that fire fragments up instead of down.

Also the value of spaced armour you could have an armoured area 80cm in front of the frontal armour plate with ERA on the front of it and then 50-100mm of light ceramic and composite armour and then perhaps a four layer cavity with ARENA munitions four deep around the entire front and sides and rear of the tank turret, with three layers firing forward and detonating down to intercept RPGs and TOWs and the common stuff on the modern battlefield, and one row of munitions firing up and back to intercept Javelin or Copperhead or other top attack weapons being developed.

The actual weight would not be huge but it would make the turret much bigger, but also much better protected.

Some sort of EO jamming system would probably be the best solution for Javelin or Copperhead based weapons most of the time, and the original ARENA could deal with BILL 2 type missiles anyway...

I am sure they know what they are doing...

Uralvagonzavod, told about the test system of active protection of tanks "arena-e"

ABU DHABI, February 21-RIA Novosti. Tests of the active protection complex (KAZ) of arena-e tanks, capable of repelling all tank-dangerous ammunition, including American Javelin anti-tank missiles, will be completed in the near future, the General Director and chief designer of the Ural transport engineering design Bureau (UKBTM, part of the concern) told RIA Novosti on Sunday."Uralvagonzavod") Andrey Terlikov.

"Today we are showing The t-72 with the arena-e KAZ-an export version of the complex made in the interests of the Ministry of defenseRussia. Vehicles equipped with KAZ have already been created. The t-72 s arena-e is undergoing tests and they are nearing the end, " Terlikov said.
The General designer noted that this system is being developed jointly with the Kolomna Bureau of mechanical engineering (KBM) and provides the tank with all-round protection against "the entire range of modern tank-dangerous ammunition, including Javelin."

https://ria.ru/20210221/tank-1598468979.html

Excellent news... the funding of putting it into service and serial production will improve it over time as production techniques adapt and improve the design and of course money coming in can be used for upgrades and improvements too.

Experience in the field however will be the real bonus as the systems will adapt and improve based on what works and what does not... none of which happens when the designs remain prototypes and examples on showroom floors.

This is great news for all Russian tankers. As I wrote lot of times here, that Russians need APS systems on tanks and IFV, finally they will made Arena M for tanks first, late probably for all their military IFV families of vehicles.

APS is must have it system as it thermals sights...

As I wrote its good, no its great news. because as GarryB says they will have real time testing and in this testing they will see problems of the system and they can easly modernizes it...its different when you test system in test ground and in real war....

Look at the advances in drones in Russia... that comes from actually having them used against them in 2008 in Georgia and then using them in Syria and now in the Ukraine... for decades Russian companies showed prototypes of drone at airshows... some very interesting looking things but they were all paper prototypes with a few models of hand made flying examples that were shown at airshows and defence exhibitions... the military looked at them and said there was no funding so nothing happened until 2008 where they were used against Russian troops in very small numbers but this conflict was a serious wakeup call for Putin... it was when he realised Russia had to do its own military work and couldn't rely on western support or help for any problem even when Russia was in the right and their enemy was in the wrong... and also because it was pretty clear that the west actually supported groups that opposed Russia rather than being at least neutral.

The funding and time and energy that has been put into drones has paid off... APS systems were live tested in Afghanistan and were found to be useful but not adopted for a range of different reasons.

Now that they are putting them on tanks they will get some real world actual experience... which is going to be good for system development and the money spent will fund the developing company who can perhaps work to integrate these APS systems into management systems on tanks so the radar detection can have optical detection backups which could also be used for situational awareness for the crews too making things better all round.

Don't expect them to be perfect, but they should help quite a bit in making Russian tanks harder to deal with.

A while back hohol telegram channels were complaining about the significant rates of misfires and near misses of their NATO ATGMs. Maybe it wasn't just purely cynicism on part of their allies offloading their shittiest stocks, maybe they had some "help" from KBP Tula. 

Either way, as it stands the Russians are sitting on mountains of real world data for their weapon systems both inservice and in development. The best part is NATO is well and fully comitted to buying and operating these compromised for the next decade and a half, while the Russians are only introducing their next gen stuff...

My highlight

Victor vicktop55
@vicktop55
The Arena-M active defense complex on the T-72 tank has successfully passed tests not only with Russian anti-tank missile systems, but also with foreign, captured ammunition. We were informed about this in the holding "High-precision complexes" of the state corporation "Rostec". In the future, the Arena-M active protection complex is planned to be installed on T-90 and T-80 tanks. http://t.me/vicktop55/1432






DARIO IL ROSSOBRUNO ️
@DMALAGIGI2
·
39m

Has a lot of differences from the old one system, if i remember well the first design was a cylinder on top of the turret

The new system is rather more low profile, but I think mast mounted optics might be a useful think anyway... eventually.

The new ARENA got rid of the munitions in a ring around the front of the turret with each munition covering an area so in the space of four or five munitions each munition would destroy incoming threats from that bearing so even if one launcher fired four or five missiles there would be enough munitions to stop them without needing to move the turret. In normal combat the turret will be moving all the time anyway so the chances of running out of munitions would be very low.

This new system seems to have four munitions that each cover an entire direction so front, back, left and right with multiple munitions that can bring down threats coming from that direction.

They are still launched up into the air and send fragments down into the ground to reduce the danger zone for friendlies in the area.

The original could also be manually fired to hit enemy troops approaching the vehicle... which would be interesting and useful.

Hopefully they have sorted out the issues regarding emissions.

Arena will be upgraded for antidrone funcionality.

It is only logical... it is already waiting for ATGMs and rockets and other threats, and it is designed for very quick reaction with no warning, which makes it suitable for use against drones too.

The important thing is that they are going to put APS systems on their tanks now.

Experience in real combat will of course still mean losses, but also the systems will be improved and perfected and likely become cheaper and much more widely deployed.

Funding from sales and use and support should further add features and hopefully these APS systems will be fully integrated with a self defence suite like an Avionics suite for aircraft that manages all sorts of systems including smoke and dazzling equipment and flares etc etc