Russian Liberal Opposition

TR1 wrote:The 'same everywhere" argument is weak and quite frankly does not concern me.
It is NOT the same everywhere, it is horrific in Russia, and even if it was on the global standard that would not mean change does not need to happen.

Kasparov is gone from Russia because his political activity displeased the Kremlin. That does not sit well with me, and should not with anyone who wants Russia to have a healthy political climate.
Calling Kasparov a criminal in the same vein as Navalny is asinine.

What Kasparov takes in now does not concern me since today he is not an active political force within Russia.

I agree with you fully that a healthy homegrown opposition with distinct accountability concerns in mind should be a favourable development in any representative system. However IT IS the same everywhere and IT IS EVEN WORSE that what you might expect.

I don't want to start making lists that would comparatively list who does worse, but my point stands.
Kasparov has nothing to offer as a project, he's gone rogue by explicitly making himself a paid useful idiot. At least Navalny had a chance, Kasparov has none and is a lunatic. As simple as that.

There is no such thing as a healthy political climate, it is only the fact that in Russia they don't do it the subtle way. Period.

The French case should ring a bell to everyone looking for "healthy political climate" in Russia.

You have Three outgoing administrations that are being hunted down by judges, a decade or so after they had their way with the system. I suspect the Germans aren't that much better, only more close knit.

In Belgium the political system has random scandals year in year out.

Great Britain...is the epitome of opacity and bullshit.

I understand that you are more concerned by Russia as it is your homeland, but the problem isn't the players. It is the game. And that whole mumbo-jumbo about freedom and such, I've been there first hand. You don't change the game, you won't have any difference in the score. And I've seen people try to change the game, didn't work out as planned.

So have all my sympathy and keep your criticism, just don't forget, nothing will change dramatically. Even with a revolution/

TR1 wrote:The 'same everywhere" argument is weak and quite frankly does not concern me.
It is NOT the same everywhere, it is horrific in Russia, and even if it was on the global standard that would not mean change does not need to happen.

Kasparov is gone from Russia because his political activity displeased the Kremlin. That does not sit well with me, and should not with anyone who wants Russia to have a healthy political climate.
Calling Kasparov a criminal in the same vein as Navalny is asinine.

What Kasparov takes in now does not concern me since today he is not an active political force within Russia.

You really have no idea about tax evation that is a buisness thing her in germany, the automative industry committs tax evation since over two decades in trln euros worth, the laws here in germany are even encouraging tax evation, everyone here who had more than 2 jobs in his life was at least once working illegal or the chef he was working for was right out openly evading tax. I worked in a restaurant when i was a student to pay my rent and all employees all 50 were paid with the lowest allowed brutto and all the rest was additional pay that was tax free like night shift, extra hours and addition for workload etc. By that bosses through entire germany are evading taxes they usually have to pay, meaning the entire german pension fund is getting cut off which affects about 30-40% of germans after 2030 there will be no pensioneers with enough pension to life on, so they are forced to work untill they die, but who is gonna employee a 65+ old man. Big companies are lobbying and evade taxes while much smaller companies are getting fined for that as soon someone files a lawsuite. Russias tax evasion is jackshit compared to that of germany or US and there are alot of other countries that are evading taxes to such extent like in germany where entire generations are suffering under it no pensions left, companies and employeers committ tax evasion so private people have to pay entire fee for health care by themselfs while the salaries and wages are shrinking each year and living costs and housing costs are raising.


His political activity displeased the Kremlin? Of course when you have a shill that is paid by US and committs treason by demanding infront of an enemy states congress like in US to have a bloody coup de etat in russia, yes that is treason and a crime. You are no one that wants russia to have a healthy political climate you want russia to be an US slut you are no russian nor are you for russia or a progress you are exactly the opposite we already clearified it here where you little shill blew up and spoke what you really think off russia, shills like you are unwanted in russia.

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:The 'same everywhere" argument is weak and quite frankly does not concern me.
It is NOT the same everywhere, it is horrific in Russia, and even if it was on the global standard that would not mean change does not need to happen.

Kasparov is gone from Russia because his political activity displeased the Kremlin. That does not sit well with me, and should not with anyone who wants Russia to have a healthy political climate.
Calling Kasparov a criminal in the same vein as Navalny is asinine.

What Kasparov takes in now does not concern me since today he is not an active political force within Russia.

You really have no idea about tax evation that is a buisness thing her in germany, the automative industry committs tax evation since over two decades in trln euros worth, the laws here in germany are even encouraging tax evation, everyone here who had more than 2 jobs in his life was at least once working illegal or the chef he was working for was right out openly evading tax. I worked in a restaurant when i was a student to pay my rent and all employees all 50 were paid with the lowest allowed brutto and all the rest was additional pay that was tax free like night shift, extra hours and addition for workload etc. By that bosses through entire germany are evading taxes they usually have to pay, meaning the entire german pension fund is getting cut off which affects about 30-40% of germans after 2030 there will be no pensioneers with enough pension to life on, so they are forced to work untill they die, but who is gonna employee a 65+ old man. Big companies are lobbying and evade taxes while much smaller companies are getting fined for that as soon someone files a lawsuite. Russias tax evasion is jackshit compared to that of germany or US and there are alot of other countries that are evading taxes to such extent like in germany where entire generations are suffering under it no pensions left, companies and employeers committ tax evasion so private people have to pay entire fee for health care by themselfs while the salaries and wages are shrinking each year and living costs and housing costs are raising.


His political activity displeased the Kremlin? Of course when you have  a shill that is paid by US and committs treason by demanding infront of an enemy states congress like in US to have a bloody coup de etat in russia, yes that is treason and a crime. You are no one that wants russia to have a healthy political climate you want russia to be an US slut you are no russian nor are you for russia or a progress you are exactly the opposite we already clearified it here where you little shill blew up and spoke what you really think off russia, shills like you are unwanted in russia.

Man that last part is pure emotions in motion. Chillax, tis the internet. Plus I understand TR1, hope dies last and lasts long. I suspect that this isn't your first rodeo for both of you, so I'll just leave it at this.

Peace.

GarryB wrote:

The US has a long history of economic sanctions against foreign nationals who act against Americas interests... up to and including murder and attempts at murder... how many CIA attempts were there to kill Castro?

So....you are drawing a comparison to a prime example of Cold War violations of human rights to make the situation in Russia today seem better? Wow. That is just weak.
Yeah, the actions of the CIA have often been deplorable, what, were you hoping I would defend them?
Also, you talking about actions vs foreign nationals. I am talking about Russian political opposition. Surely you can see the difference.

In comparison the disassociation and freezing of assets of a domestic national is rather moderate action in comparison...

Yeah yeah sure, its also mild compared to Stalin's Great Terror, pat yourself on the back for that one as well.

or do rich traitors who continue to gain in wealth deserve their ill gotten gains?

Here we get to a serious problem with the Stalin-think of many of the people on this forum.
How is Kudrin a traitor? How is political activism being a traitor?
How is being a thief in the Kremlin NOT being a traitor?

You may not like the actions of some political activists, but they see it as a way of changing the Russian regime. Putin=/= Russia. Wanting to get rid of Putin =/= wanting Russia to be destroyed by America or w/e you paranoid folks think.
Now, are all political opposition members motivated purely by alturism? No, ofc not.
But putting a blanket term of traitor on all of them and calling for sanctioning their assets is disgusting.

That is funny, because if you go to the Middle East and join ISIS and try to go back to the US you will be arrested most likely and almost certainly lose your US citizenship.

Yes, because joining ISIS is the same as calling for sanctions on Putin and his government members. Definitely.

And US politicians have already said Russia is a greater world threat than ISIS or Ebola.

And Russian politicians have said nuclear waste needs to be dumped into the Baltics so they all die. Guess who said that, and how many seats in the Duma his party has?

So Duma, Congress, Parliment... call it what you like... it is pretty much the same everywhere.

Good god, I have had just about enough of this logic. Well, erm, it's bad elsewhere too, so don't talk about it!
Have you actually seen Duma sessions Garry? Be honest.
No amount of US Congress asshattery makes the Duma any more useful.

Actively trying to get an enemy state to act against your own country is a crime too.

Is Russia at war with the US? No. Ok then, moving on.

Ask the Americans... they can arrest Russians in Africa and kidnap them from Thailand, refer to them as a lord of war and put them in US prison for crimes against US INTERESTS... why shouldn't Russia be allowed to do the same?

Once again, you are all over the place. We are talking Russian nationals criticizing the Russian political establishment, and being branded traitors as a result. What does that have Bout being nabbed?
Utterly incomparable scenarios.
You might as well bring up CIA nabbing random Europeans and jailing them for some time. Deplorable? Hell yes. Relevant? no.

A russian politician goes to the US to ask for sanctions against his rivals... he is playing big boy games... if he tries to return home... hang him and his family and the families pets... big boy consequences...

Because giving weapons to non-state actors across another nations borders is the same as.....lobbying for sanctioning on his political rivals.
Wait, no its not. Not legally, not logically, not in any way.
If he was a member of United Russia and got booted, fine.
If he was an elected member of another party and gets voted out next election, fine.
If he gets booted out of his party by the other party members, fine.

Asking for sanctions is not a crime in the Russian constitution last I checked.

If it is OK to sanction Russia without any evidence and in fact with open media evidence that the west is actually doing what it is accusing Russia of doing... then clearly there are no rules.

Anyone with two eyes can see the evidence, but once again, that is generally irrelevant to what I am saying.
I'm not even talking about international rules here, just the handling of political opposition.

Doesn't that apply to everyone? What about all the assets frozen in the US by US imposed sanctions? Surely their assets are theirs and not for the Washington government thieves to steal?

What US political opposition assets have been seized?
You are once again talking about something else and unrelated. Scumy? Maybe. Political? most of the time yeah. But not relevant to Kudrin being a "subversion expert" and needing to be executed.

Think I am being dramatic?

No. Look at this thread.
Half of the kretins posting in this thread were openly cheering for Nemtsov's murder.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:The 'same everywhere" argument is weak and quite frankly does not concern me.
It is NOT the same everywhere, it is horrific in Russia, and even if it was on the global standard that would not mean change does not need to happen.

Kasparov is gone from Russia because his political activity displeased the Kremlin. That does not sit well with me, and should not with anyone who wants Russia to have a healthy political climate.
Calling Kasparov a criminal in the same vein as Navalny is asinine.

What Kasparov takes in now does not concern me since today he is not an active political force within Russia.

You really have no idea about tax evation that is a buisness thing her in germany, the automative industry committs tax evation since over two decades in trln euros worth, the laws here in germany are even encouraging tax evation, everyone here who had more than 2 jobs in his life was at least once working illegal or the chef he was working for was right out openly evading tax. I worked in a restaurant when i was a student to pay my rent and all employees all 50 were paid with the lowest allowed brutto and all the rest was additional pay that was tax free like night shift, extra hours and addition for workload etc. By that bosses through entire germany are evading taxes they usually have to pay, meaning the entire german pension fund is getting cut off which affects about 30-40% of germans after 2030 there will be no pensioneers with enough pension to life on, so they are forced to work untill they die, but who is gonna employee a 65+ old man. Big companies are lobbying and evade taxes while much smaller companies are getting fined for that as soon someone files a lawsuite. Russias tax evasion is jackshit compared to that of germany or US and there are alot of other countries that are evading taxes to such extent like in germany where entire generations are suffering under it no pensions left, companies and employeers committ tax evasion so private people have to pay entire fee for health care by themselfs while the salaries and wages are shrinking each year and living costs and housing costs are raising.


His political activity displeased the Kremlin? Of course when you have  a shill that is paid by US and committs treason by demanding infront of an enemy states congress like in US to have a bloody coup de etat in russia, yes that is treason and a crime. You are no one that wants russia to have a healthy political climate you want russia to be an US slut you are no russian nor are you for russia or a progress you are exactly the opposite we already clearified it here where you little shill blew up and spoke what you really think off russia, shills like you are unwanted in russia.

Man that last part is pure emotions in motion. Chillax, tis the internet. Plus I understand TR1, hope dies last and lasts long. I suspect that this isn't your first rodeo for both of you, so I'll just leave it at this.

Peace.

Generally that is why I don't respond to posts by that fellow.

We can have a constructive discussion without involving the "special" crew.

Now, now, the issue is this.

We both have been to that plank.

We want Free Russia/Albanistan from X-Regime, we don't want to destroy it. But...we need help.

Once you seek help, nope I'm not thinking about Ukraine at all, a lot of your space for both maneuvering and decision vanishes.
And you find out in a relationship that ultimately causes MORE harm than good. Again Ukraine IS a good analogy. Not 2014 Ukraine, but 2004 Ukraine.
I can also put forward Serbia, or Croatia or Albania.

The idea behind this is that there is no free lunch. If you don't find enough room for change within the country, better not try anything.

Again see Ukraine, 2014 this time.

TR1 wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:The 'same everywhere" argument is weak and quite frankly does not concern me.
It is NOT the same everywhere, it is horrific in Russia, and even if it was on the global standard that would not mean change does not need to happen.

Kasparov is gone from Russia because his political activity displeased the Kremlin. That does not sit well with me, and should not with anyone who wants Russia to have a healthy political climate.
Calling Kasparov a criminal in the same vein as Navalny is asinine.

What Kasparov takes in now does not concern me since today he is not an active political force within Russia.

You really have no idea about tax evation that is a buisness thing her in germany, the automative industry committs tax evation since over two decades in trln euros worth, the laws here in germany are even encouraging tax evation, everyone here who had more than 2 jobs in his life was at least once working illegal or the chef he was working for was right out openly evading tax. I worked in a restaurant when i was a student to pay my rent and all employees all 50 were paid with the lowest allowed brutto and all the rest was additional pay that was tax free like night shift, extra hours and addition for workload etc. By that bosses through entire germany are evading taxes they usually have to pay, meaning the entire german pension fund is getting cut off which affects about 30-40% of germans after 2030 there will be no pensioneers with enough pension to life on, so they are forced to work untill they die, but who is gonna employee a 65+ old man. Big companies are lobbying and evade taxes while much smaller companies are getting fined for that as soon someone files a lawsuite. Russias tax evasion is jackshit compared to that of germany or US and there are alot of other countries that are evading taxes to such extent like in germany where entire generations are suffering under it no pensions left, companies and employeers committ tax evasion so private people have to pay entire fee for health care by themselfs while the salaries and wages are shrinking each year and living costs and housing costs are raising.


His political activity displeased the Kremlin? Of course when you have  a shill that is paid by US and committs treason by demanding infront of an enemy states congress like in US to have a bloody coup de etat in russia, yes that is treason and a crime. You are no one that wants russia to have a healthy political climate you want russia to be an US slut you are no russian nor are you for russia or a progress you are exactly the opposite we already clearified it here where you little shill blew up and spoke what you really think off russia, shills like you are unwanted in russia.

Man that last part is pure emotions in motion. Chillax, tis the internet. Plus I understand TR1, hope dies last and lasts long. I suspect that this isn't your first rodeo for both of you, so I'll just leave it at this.

Peace.

Generally that is why I don't respond to posts by that fellow.

We can have a constructive discussion without involving the "special" crew.

You don't have a discussion at all, you just avoided every single question and remark by Garry. You are living in a parallel universe. You don't recognize facts, the fact that Nemzov and Kasparow are PAID BY THE WEST and that defacto is not CRITICS against russia and yes he is a traitor, people who sell of their own country for money are traitors but of course you love the western puppets.

When you actually come to discuss things and not try to pretend that Kasparow is a paid shill working for money against RF and russians then you can have a discussion here, but since you are a non russian talking about russian politics which you clearly have no idea about since you just whitewash and do not recognize that Russia is right now under much worse conditions from the outside than it was ever from within, except yeltzin.

But of course you don't reply because you are in a disadvantage about russian politics.

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:The 'same everywhere" argument is weak and quite frankly does not concern me.
It is NOT the same everywhere, it is horrific in Russia, and even if it was on the global standard that would not mean change does not need to happen.

Kasparov is gone from Russia because his political activity displeased the Kremlin. That does not sit well with me, and should not with anyone who wants Russia to have a healthy political climate.
Calling Kasparov a criminal in the same vein as Navalny is asinine.

What Kasparov takes in now does not concern me since today he is not an active political force within Russia.

You really have no idea about tax evation that is a buisness thing her in germany, the automative industry committs tax evation since over two decades in trln euros worth, the laws here in germany are even encouraging tax evation, everyone here who had more than 2 jobs in his life was at least once working illegal or the chef he was working for was right out openly evading tax. I worked in a restaurant when i was a student to pay my rent and all employees all 50 were paid with the lowest allowed brutto and all the rest was additional pay that was tax free like night shift, extra hours and addition for workload etc. By that bosses through entire germany are evading taxes they usually have to pay, meaning the entire german pension fund is getting cut off which affects about 30-40% of germans after 2030 there will be no pensioneers with enough pension to life on, so they are forced to work untill they die, but who is gonna employee a 65+ old man. Big companies are lobbying and evade taxes while much smaller companies are getting fined for that as soon someone files a lawsuite. Russias tax evasion is jackshit compared to that of germany or US and there are alot of other countries that are evading taxes to such extent like in germany where entire generations are suffering under it no pensions left, companies and employeers committ tax evasion so private people have to pay entire fee for health care by themselfs while the salaries and wages are shrinking each year and living costs and housing costs are raising.


His political activity displeased the Kremlin? Of course when you have  a shill that is paid by US and committs treason by demanding infront of an enemy states congress like in US to have a bloody coup de etat in russia, yes that is treason and a crime. You are no one that wants russia to have a healthy political climate you want russia to be an US slut you are no russian nor are you for russia or a progress you are exactly the opposite we already clearified it here where you little shill blew up and spoke what you really think off russia, shills like you are unwanted in russia.

Man that last part is pure emotions in motion. Chillax, tis the internet. Plus I understand TR1, hope dies last and lasts long. I suspect that this isn't your first rodeo for both of you, so I'll just leave it at this.

Peace.

Generally that is why I don't respond to posts by that fellow.

We can have a constructive discussion without involving the "special" crew.

You don't have a discussion at all, you just avoided every single question and remark by Garry. You are living in a parallel universe. You don't recognize facts, the fact that Nemzov and Kasparow are PAID BY THE WEST and that defacto is not CRITICS against russia and yes he is a traitor, people who sell of their own country for money are traitors but of course you love the western puppets.

When you actually come to discuss things and not try to pretend that Kasparow is a paid shill working for money against RF and russians then you can have a discussion here, but since you are a non russian talking about russian politics which you clearly have no idea about since you just whitewash and do not recognize that Russia is right now under much worse conditions from the outside than it was ever from within, except yeltzin.

But  of course you don't reply because you are in a disadvantage about russian politics.

I don't think that you get the point here.

1. Saying the US does worse isn't really a defense.
2. You can't have the whole Stalin-defense agitators and saboteurs with both eyes open. Look at recent ruble fiasco. It was the current regime buddies that litterally milked the Forex market. They milked ordinary Russians and the State budget by playing against the RUB. This is clearly mass theft/
3. Indeed there are "opposition" figures that are in bed with the US, because they can't find proper support in Russia, this is both desirable on short term and very bad on long term. Short term resistance is good for Russia, since people know what it looks like to have "shock therapy", but it is bad because it allows current Russian regime to play up the besieged citadel tune and root out any other alternative that isn't vetted by them.
4. Russia isn't under much worse condition now, to the contrary. 10 years ago this would have been a catastrophe. Now its a 4%/ 1 year recession. LOL.
5. Capitalism...

I don't think that you get the point here.

1. Saying the US does worse isn't really a defense.
2. You can't have the whole Stalin-defense agitators and saboteurs with both eyes open. Look at recent ruble fiasco. It was the current regime buddies that litterally milked the Forex market. They milked ordinary Russians and the State budget by playing against the RUB. This is clearly mass theft/
3. Indeed there are "opposition" figures that are in bed with the US, because they can't find proper support in Russia, this is both desirable on short term and very bad on long term. Short term resistance is good for Russia, since people know what it looks like to have "shock therapy", but it is bad because it allows current Russian regime to play up the besieged citadel tune and root out any other alternative that isn't vetted by them.
4. Russia isn't under much worse condition now, to the contrary. 10 years ago this would have been a catastrophe. Now its a 4%/ 1 year recession. LOL.
5. Capitalism...

1. You have not got the point here at all, the point is this indoctrinated guy TR1, since you haven't been here long enough you have not much of an idea. He was pretty worked up and could not make a single argument except "russian dictatorship", so after being challanged over and over about actually making a point which he couldn't he blew off and has shown his true face, he is a through and through western who wants russia being an US bitch. Please refrain from going there since you clearly are not in the context on that. The point is if you have a biased guy that wishs ill for russia than you have a guy that has no critism else but being not better than a 5th columnist.


2. That point was addressed several times and that does not change a thing when you have shills calling themselfs the oppossition which they are not. To deal with that problem you have to deal with the constitution and the central bank, because it would not matter when you try change things from the lower rows which do not even have the possibilities to adjust to the problem.

3. What are you mumbling. Point is if you have a PAID agent that calls himself opposition which he is not, does not legitimize anything from this person. Kasparow is paid, meaning everything from him makes it an illegal action, because it is not based on ideology of progress for russia and getting the problems out of the country and to thrive the country, what he does is not based on love to the country but to the love for money.

4. It is by far better conditions now than 10 years ago, it has progress since 2004, slow progress but there is progress despite the entire undermining of 5th column and the enemy state US and its slaves sanctions, to deal with this problem russia just has to deal with the lazyness and comfort zone of imports and start running up the domestic production to decrease the effect of foreign sabotage of the economy that will give enough ground and buffer for progress and other problems.

Kotemore you are free to go through my posts and see if Werewolf's accusations are true.

I should warn you though, the guy is a total nutter, a holocaust denier and in general just a Putin-shill through and through.\

Ofc him saying other people get worked up is rich in itself, given the amount of "America this, 5th columnist that, blah blah blah NATO" vulgarity the guy spews whenever something upsets him.

There is a reason the actual Russians here (myself, Python) generally ignore his rants.

Welcome to Russiadefense .
Where 5th columnists are under every bed!

TR1 wrote:Kotemore you are free to go through my posts and see if Werewolf's accusations are true.

I should warn you though, the guy is a total nutter, a holocaust denier and in general just a Putin-shill through and through.\

Ofc him saying other people get worked up is rich in itself, given the amount of "America this, 5th columnist that, blah blah blah NATO" vulgarity the guy spews whenever something upsets him.

There is a reason the actual Russians here (myself, Python) generally ignore his rants.

Welcome to Russiadefense .
Where 5th columnists are under every bed!

Yes, you and russian with your bullshit of russia being a shithole and free and democratic west, please don't kid anyone. Just because you speak russian does not make you a russian.

And yes i am a Putin-shill, he pays me daily, just like the other fool told i am a Washington-bot and a Nazi which you fool told i was, but denying of nazis being in Ukraine.

since you have nothing to contribute to this thread please refrain from it since once again like over a year you insult people and drag discussions to personal debates and you have been warned several times that you are a trouble maker here, each thread you ridcule discussions and get personal without any content other than going against people who you can't argue against.

Get educated about politics than come back and you can join a discussion.

Werewolf wrote:

I don't think that you get the point here.

1. Saying the US does worse isn't really a defense.
2. You can't have the whole Stalin-defense agitators and saboteurs with both eyes open. Look at recent ruble fiasco. It was the current regime buddies that litterally milked the Forex market. They milked ordinary Russians and the State budget by playing against the RUB. This is clearly mass theft/
3. Indeed there are "opposition" figures that are in bed with the US, because they can't find proper support in Russia, this is both desirable on short term and very bad on long term. Short term resistance is good for Russia, since people know what it looks like to have "shock therapy", but it is bad because it allows current Russian regime to play up the besieged citadel tune and root out any other alternative that isn't vetted by them.
4. Russia isn't under much worse condition now, to the contrary. 10 years ago this would have been a catastrophe. Now its a 4%/ 1 year recession. LOL.
5. Capitalism...

1. You have not got the point here at all, the point is this indoctrinated guy TR1, since you haven't been here long enough you have not much of an idea. He was pretty worked up and could not make a single argument except "russian dictatorship", so after being challanged over and over about actually making a point which he couldn't he blew off and has shown his true face, he is a through and through western who wants russia being an US bitch. Please refrain from going there since you clearly are not in the context on that. The point is if you have a biased guy that wishs ill for russia than you have a guy that has no critism else but being not better than a 5th columnist.


2. That point was addressed several times and that does not change a thing when you have shills calling themselfs the oppossition which they are not. To deal with that problem you have to deal with the constitution and the central bank, because it would not matter when you try change things from the lower rows which do not even have the possibilities to adjust to the problem.

3. What are you mumbling. Point is if you have a PAID agent that calls himself opposition which he is not, does not legitimize anything from this person. Kasparow is paid, meaning everything from him makes it an illegal action, because it is not based on ideology of progress for russia and getting the problems out of the country and to thrive the country, what he does is not based on love to the country but to the love for money.

4. It is by far better conditions now than 10 years ago, it has progress since 2004, slow progress but there is progress despite the entire undermining of 5th column and the enemy state US and its slaves sanctions, to deal with this problem russia just has to deal with the lazyness and comfort zone of imports and start running up the domestic production to decrease the effect of foreign sabotage of the economy that will give enough ground and buffer for progress and other problems.

1. I know The Russian1 since MP.net, his views aren't new to me. His views are marked by what is unarguable a distaste for current methods inside. I agree partly with him. The level of misappropriation is enormous in Russia. And it is done without much finesse. But so it is at home. The Balkans are a kind of little Russia in that aspect.
2. See we've agreed on one point already; there is a damn problem whe Russia loses about 100 bln of its Reserve Fund to try and stop sharks from bleeding the Russian state? Not even adressing the gains from those people. So what is the solution when you can't obviously reach the power far enough. I think VVP clearly sees the issue here, not because he's a grandmaster, but because that move will cost Russia its defense spending among others. That is a far bigger crime than two idiots being paid a couple of bucks to make herp derp agitprop. But that pointn Forex milking, won't be adressed with transparency. And I expect it to be adressed Uncle Joe style behind the ears.
3. I'm not speaking about Kasparov, read again, I'm speaking about people that might be a decent opposition, that don't have much choice to begin with. The current change within the ranks is a problem. And we're seeing it. People like Kudrin have largely condemned Russia to the Dutch disease, now they're talking BS. And Kudrin is a former "team-player" gone rogue. So indeed having the current system will only create more Kudrins and less opportunity for decent ledaership.
4. Second point we're agreeing here. How do you gear up for such "diversification" when you are between Europe and China? Russia needs foreign capital because the comfort zone of the Hydrocarbons...be that Chinese or Western. And as such "preferences" might look like 5th columnists in disguise.

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:Kotemore you are free to go through my posts and see if Werewolf's accusations are true.

I should warn you though, the guy is a total nutter, a holocaust denier and in general just a Putin-shill through and through.\

Ofc him saying other people get worked up is rich in itself, given the amount of "America this, 5th columnist that, blah blah blah NATO" vulgarity the guy spews whenever something upsets him.

There is a reason the actual Russians here (myself, Python) generally ignore his rants.

Welcome to Russiadefense .
Where 5th columnists are under every bed!

Yes, you and russian with your bullshit of russia being a shithole and free and democratic west, please don't kid anyone. Just because you speak russian does not make you a russian.

And yes i am a Putin-shill, he pays me daily, just like the other fool told i am a Washington-bot and a Nazi which you fool told i was, but denying of nazis being in Ukraine.

since you have nothing to contribute to this thread please refrain from it since once again like over a year you insult people and drag discussions to personal debates and you have been warned several times that you are a trouble maker here, each thread you ridcule discussions and get personal without any content other than going against people who you can't argue against.

Get educated about politics than come back and you can join a discussion.

You are not a moderator here kid. Reel your neck in.

In fact, it is your vulgarity as of late that brought mod attention, since you have polluted the forum with posts filled entirely with various insults and no content whatsoever.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t3904p330-the-situation-in-the-ukraine

For all to see, Werewolf being censored because of his posting habits. So if you want to call me out on something, sunshine, try to not stumble and fall in the process.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
1. I know The Russian1 since MP.net, his views aren't new to me. His views are marked by what is unarguable a distaste for current methods inside. I agree partly with him. The level of misappropriation is enormous in Russia. And it is done without much finesse. But so it is at home. The Balkans are a kind of little Russia in that aspect.

That does not matter since you haven't been in the same discussions about it and the hypocrisy towards exact those points that were addressed before and the double standards he is measuring or pretends to judge things by.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
2. See we've agreed on one point already; there is a damn problem whe Russia loses about 100 bln of its Reserve Fund to try and stop sharks from bleeding the Russian state? Not even adressing the gains from those people. So what is the solution when you can't obviously reach the power far enough. I think VVP clearly sees the issue here, not because he's a grandmaster, but because that move will cost Russia its defense spending among others. That is a far bigger crime than two idiots being paid a couple of bucks to make herp derp agitprop. But that pointn Forex milking, won't be adressed with transparency. And I expect it to be adressed Uncle Joe style behind the ears.

The problem is not that they are seeing the problem, because like you said in russia corruption is not subtle like here in the our beloved free west, it is blatant obvious, the problem

here is instead of critising it and demanding retarded measureents like the step down of the current leadership, while those critics expect the next someone will be dealing with that

problem. Someone you know is always better than someone you don't know. The problem is actually doing something about it and of course that only can work when you start at two

fronts and Central Bank is one of those fronts. Since you should know the constitution states that CB and RF do not stand for each other in debt wise, they by constitution to not

account for each other which makes the CB to a private bank that is not bound or obligated to RF and its interest, they are playing a double game. The solution to some of the big

problems would be to federalize the bank and changing that part in the constitution that CB is accountable for RF and not to act as some private organ and playing against the rouble

which it did on several occasions.

Just to make the point clear, someone who just demands Putin to step down, because there is corruption with some phoney expectations someone esle will do better without actually knowing who will be there and/or his political direction is not a critic but a guilable fool that believes it is critics.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
3. I'm not speaking about Kasparov, read again, I'm speaking about people that might be a decent opposition, that don't have much choice to begin with. The current change within the ranks is a problem. And we're seeing it. People like Kudrin have largely condemned Russia to the Dutch disease, now they're talking BS. And Kudrin is a former "team-player" gone rogue. So indeed having the current system will only create more Kudrins and less opportunity for decent ledaership.

I think you are underestimating the "few" 5th columnists, they are not that few they are actually much more and you should be aware of the hundreds of NGO's alone in Moscow that

are undermining and harming russia on different fronts, not just direct political involvement, but also subversion of younger generations with trying to indoctrinate them via different

mediums. What i have a huge problem is the Minister of Culture which has a state budget accounted for movies and tv series and this minister of culture along with lobbies there are

corrupt, giving budget and money out for stupid movies that have not met a single point of the requirements list for funding from the Ministery of Culture, since you are russian you

know what retarded movies i am speaking about that were funded with state money from the minstery. The problem here is not the relative small amounts of money but the fact

what it is used for. A countries future is determined by two major pillars, education the collective education of coming generations and the daily live conditions to raise a family.

Currently there is an attempt like here in germany like rest of west it is well established, to lower the intellect of the population by right out illuminating population with garbage and

lower their IQ and that is not a conspiracy theory that is a sad fact that the niveau of all medias are lowered and people are just made stupid. That i have a huge problem with that

should be dealt with ASAP along with CBR. You may see only a handfull 5th columnists that are paid or just try to gain favor with the west by beeing harmful to image or economy of

russia, but there are many more not right out in plain sight being the problem for russia.

4. Second point we're agreeing here. How do you gear up for such "diversification" when you are between Europe and China? Russia needs foreign capital because the comfort zone of the Hydrocarbons...be that Chinese or Western. And as such "preferences" might look like 5th columnists in disguise.
[/quote]

Split the assets of economical dependancy and partnership and not trying to stay just on one side, further decreasing the depandancy on all sides by taking production in russia and

not relying for crucial parts be it military or economical like argicultural equipment. Russia like any country which i am always advocating should seek and work for an autonomous

economy as much as they can and russia is in the best position, it has the resources, the intelligent people and constant growing generations with high education and it also has the

budget it just needs to create a better environment for youngsters to stay and work where they are born and educated and stop being lazy out of comfort from import.

The other point is, russia definitely needs to start retaliating against the western behavior of sanction war and ridiculing the countries reputation. Like the political decision and

pressure from US to withhold mistral acting outside of contracts boundaries, the pardoning from russia like what they did to a russian in italy just seized all his money and property

just because Italy (US) and russia have bad relations, that guy was not even a political member nor a friend of putin or anyone, just a random guy, a rich one but a nobody.

There is a saying that is absolutley true, " Pardon one offence and you encourage the companyof many", russia constantly tries to be as defensive as possible with Putin calling west

till this date "partners" when they wish only harm to it to get russias resources, this has to stop and they need to show off that the western vassals are not in position to threatening

russia. Russia has enough economical and political power to show those chiuahuas that they are barking at the wrong tree.

I think you guys are strting to get to TR1....he's loosing the plot big time.

_________

Kasyanov and similar filth are indefensible, but they are good for contrasting the Rus government with the so called liberal opposition. Only brain dead morons would vote for them

TR1 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:which means a lot of them receive money and it doesn't show up in the tax returns.

Oh so now you are concerned with tax returns? By that standard half of the Russian government needs to be investigated, but ofc, they are not the TRUE threat to Russia, that some minor opposition officials are.

Most places in the world if you receive significant amounts of money and it doesn't show up in taxes then the Federal taxing agency will threaten to seize your assets.

And we all know that's neeeeever political. No, when Putin declares his mild income that's clearly ALL he makes LOL.
Also, NGO donations and personal spending are two different things. Might want to clarify between donations for political purposes and personal income.

Most countries (including the U.S.) in the world grants law enforcement agencies the ability to seize/confiscate assets when a warrant has been assigned for several accusations of a crime, and you don't actually have to be convicted of anything either.

Got it, criticizing the government should be a crime.
What crime did Kasparov commit?
Taking NGO money when Russian Law did not prohibit it for political activism is not a crime.

Of course your pre-pubescent mind struggles with elementary understanding of law enforcement. Accusing others of being upset while crying to moderators is rich coming from a guy who holds up popsicles vertically and sit on them to determine their flavor. Come back when you fixed the broken glass in your vagina.

Awww, more teenage angst! Cute.
Garry, he hurt my feelings! ;(

Look at the tryhard we got here, Soros personal inhaler, but why don't we remind who cried towards Garry for help:

TR1 wrote:

Garry, can you tell the child to calm down? I think he needs a break from the internet.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t3904p360-the-situation-in-the-ukraine#88456

I know it's hard for you to think straight after snorting all those lines...

You need to have a long think about what you are actually contributing to this thread, because at the moment you are not contributing well.

the best I could suggest is that you put TR-1 on your ignore list and simply don't talk to each other.

If I have to edit your posts again for inappropriate material this month there will be a ban involved that I will feel much less guilty about.

GarryB

That does not matter since you haven't been in the same discussions about it and the hypocrisy towards exact those points that were addressed before and the double standards he is measuring or pretends to judge things by.

Personally I'm always worried with people that lose their calm. Because it means that either I'm being an ass (I hope and feel this isn't the case) or that the person can't contain her emotions. Double standarts might be only cynicism and/or sarcasm. Asking for more transparency and accountability shouldn't be frown upon. Here I agree I haven't been dealing with the site for too long, so MAYBE I'm out of depth.

The problem is not that they are seeing the problem, because like you said in russia corruption is not subtle like here in the our beloved free west, it is blatant obvious, the problem

here is instead of critising it and demanding retarded measureents like the step down of the current leadership,  while those critics expect the next someone will be dealing with that

problem.

The current leadership should step down in the near future, even for the sake of "change". As I told you Russia isn't monolithical, but the revolving door issue is real. That door is stuck. Now yes, it isn't in times like these that people should ask for more Majdanoz.

Someone you know is always better than someone you don't know. The problem is actually doing something about it and of course that only can work when you start at two

fronts and Central Bank is one of those fronts. Since you should know the constitution states that CB and RF do not stand for each other in debt wise, they by constitution to not

account for each other which makes the CB to a private bank that is not bound or obligated to RF and its interest, they are playing a double game.

The issues won't go away with the CBR being enslaved to the Russian State. The Forex milking had only partly to do with it. The capital flight, the fact that Russia has up to 5 billions on "private" customs declaration from the US, the fact that there is a tie down with oil will not be countered by the CBR being state controlled. The monetary aspect of it can't trup the fiscal policies of Russia and the general lawlessness when it comes to taxation. We all know of the ghost debts some of teh bigger Russian companies accumulate.

The solution to some of the big

problems would be to federalize the bank and changing that part in the constitution that CB is accountable for RF and not to act as some private organ and playing against the rouble

which it did on several occasions.

Again you don't cool down Forex milking with the CBR alone. You do it by publically tackling the sharking. People were shorting the RUB at 45 vs USD and caused a direct panic. The fact that the CBR allowed idiotic loans to Russian Big Biz would have indeed been a fact sooner or later, with or without RF control on the CBR. A perfect cynical would say that at least that money went to Russian Big Biz and thus some money will go back to the Russian budget.

Just to make the point clear, someone who just demands Putin to step down, because there is corruption with some phoney expectations someone esle will do better without actually knowing who will be there and/or his political direction is not a critic but a guilable fool that believes it is critics.

Agreed, but you can criticize. Critics are easy, I agree as well.

I think you are underestimating the "few" 5th columnists, they are not that few they are actually much more and you should be aware of the hundreds of NGO's alone in Moscow that

are undermining and harming russia on different fronts, not just direct political involvement, but also subversion of younger generations with trying to indoctrinate them via different

mediums. What i have a huge problem is the Minister of Culture which has a state budget accounted for movies and tv series and this minister of culture along with lobbies there are

corrupt, giving budget and money out for stupid movies that have not met a single point of the requirements list for funding from the Ministery of Culture, since you are russian you

know what retarded movies i am speaking about that were funded with state money from the minstery. The problem here is not the relative small amounts of money but the fact

what it is used for. A countries future is determined by two major pillars, education the collective education of coming generations and the daily live conditions to raise a family.

That is however something different. This "lowering" of standarts is a fact. It's called the appeal of the dominant culture. People will do as what they see being the dominant culture. You simply can't beat the US as it is now. US filmmaking has always been massive garbage. Production values were always low, with moral clichés. The very few challenging movies for instance have been even worse.

Even at the height of US Power Politics crisis. Take "No Way Out" of Donaldson (1987). The movie starts as a very good thriller, that ends up in full paranoia mode. That is called education.

Now see 9th Company from Bondarchuk. That's called "factual". Nevermind is blows and gives a totally twisted idea of the Afghan experience (already a fvcking nightmare).

This is something Russia can't compete with. Even back at the Soviet days. Americans can afford to be ruthless motherf****** since they can shape whatever crisis at their advantage. Who remembers that from 150K to 300K (conservative estimates) were killed in a 8 year war and occupation that was illegal from day 1? Bar the Iraqis? No one. It's gone. You'll have the whole "wounded warriors", the families of the KIA and then what?

We are reminded 24/7 that Rasha is an agressor in Ukraine. Again the power of propaganda. You simply can't beat it. You can educate yourself as much as you want. You'll end up in world that will be incompatible with your POV.

Currently there is an attempt like here in germany like rest of west it is well established, to lower the intellect of the population by right out illuminating population with garbage and 11
should be dealt with ASAP along with CBR. You may see only a handfull 5th columnists that are paid or just try to gain favor with the west by beeing harmful to image or economy of

russia, but there are many more not right out in plain sight being the problem for russia.

However the 5th C isn't a problem when 9 out 10 films your kid sees are Hollywood bullshit. When the brands he wants to wear are US based. When for his birthday he wants Micky Dee partaaaay. When he wants a car for having his Law degree. There is a way of shaping out the generations that we can't oppose to.

It's simple, and that's nothing you can do about it. Really.

Split the assets of economical dependancy and partnership and not trying to stay just on one side, further decreasing the depandancy on all sides by taking production in russia and

not relying for crucial parts be it military or economical like argicultural equipment. Russia like any country which i am always advocating should seek and work for an autonomous

economy as much as they can and russia is in the best position, it has the resources, the intelligent people and constant growing generations with high education and it also has the

budget it just needs to create a better environment for youngsters to stay and work where they are born and educated and stop being lazy out of comfort from import.

The other point is, russia definitely needs to start retaliating against the western behavior of sanction war and ridiculing the countries reputation. Like the political decision and

pressure from US to withhold mistral acting outside of contracts boundaries, the pardoning from russia like what they did to a russian in italy just seized all his money and property

just because Italy (US) and russia have bad relations, that guy was not even a political member nor a friend of putin or anyone, just a random guy, a rich one but  a nobody.

There is a saying that is absolutley true, " Pardon one offence and you encourage the companyof many", russia constantly tries to be as defensive as possible with Putin calling west

till this date "partners" when they wish only harm to it to get russias resources, this has to stop and they need to show off that the western vassals are not in position to threatening

russia. Russia has enough economical and political power to show those chiuahuas that they are barking at the wrong tree.

The issue is that you'll run to the same problems most arab economies faced in the 60's and 70's from their own dutch diseases. See most Joint ventures in Russia sell current or former generation items pimped up. The best case is the Lada Vesta, which is the Cheap Renault QP platfrom which it shares with Dacia and former Megane. The car looks brand new, the technology behind it isn't. So that's the issue with Russia, it can't even afford to go the Koren Route, since Korea was in a FFA race to export with capital flowing to Asia. Capital will never go to Russia for the simple fact it is a sovereign country. The State of Russia needs to create its own brands, its own markets and its own niches.

That could work IF the mood towards Russia was neutral at least. It doesn't because Europoors want cash and Europaranoids would rather whore themselves to Ze Germanz instead of trying to have a profitable relationship with Russia. This is a fact again. So Russia can't pull a China without being Flagged. See Gazprom. See the Russian attempted aquisitions, Sport clubs, Real Estate, low volume companies? OK. But there's hell to pay for Russians to buy shares into "strategic companies", banks or even any big asset out there.

IT's a fact there is no free market, when big bad Rasha is concerned. So effectively you simply CAN'T try and diversify in the classical sense. Plus corruption and sclerosed state policies.

But all this isn't as bad. It's just the way it is.

It is NOT the same everywhere, it is horrific in Russia, and even if it was on the global standard that would not mean change does not need to happen.

So you think the best chance for change in Russia for the better is if some former chess champion that is in the pay of foreign hostile governments gets more power?

Kasparov is gone from Russia because his political activity displeased the Kremlin. That does not sit well with me, and should not with anyone who wants Russia to have a healthy political climate.

Having foreign controlled stooges is not a healthy political climate... their incredibly low polling figures show most Russians see right through them... why do you think they are so wonderful?

I agree with you fully that a healthy homegrown opposition with distinct accountability concerns in mind should be a favourable development in any representative system. However IT IS the same everywhere and IT IS EVEN WORSE that what you might expect.

Real accountability used to be something that involved a free and independent media... something that does not exist any more.

Great Britain...is the epitome of opacity and bullshit.

The odd sex scandal was fun though...

I understand that you are more concerned by Russia as it is your homeland, but the problem isn't the players. It is the game. And that whole mumbo-jumbo about freedom and such, I've been there first hand. You don't change the game, you won't have any difference in the score. And I've seen people try to change the game, didn't work out as planned.

So have all my sympathy and keep your criticism, just don't forget, nothing will change dramatically. Even with a revolution/

Ironically I think Putin is the most honest and open and also the most clever politician in the world today and would have no problems voting for him if I could.

So....you are drawing a comparison to a prime example of Cold War violations of human rights to make the situation in Russia today seem better? Wow. That is just weak.

Who is talking about the cold war... drone attacks continue to kill people around the world who likely have never even been to the US not to mention the collateral damage...

Saddam was executed along with about half a dozen of his lawyers... ah but the Iraqi government did that I suppose...

Yeah, the actions of the CIA have often been deplorable, what, were you hoping I would defend them?
Also, you talking about actions vs foreign nationals. I am talking about Russian political opposition. Surely you can see the difference.

If the Russian political opposition wants to play games with the CIA and US then what goes around comes around... like you said... play in the big game there are no rules.

How is being a thief in the Kremlin NOT being a traitor?

A serious charge often mentioned in the western media too, yet never with any evidence.

You may not like the actions of some political activists, but they see it as a way of changing the Russian regime. Putin=/= Russia. Wanting to get rid of Putin =/= wanting Russia to be destroyed by America or w/e you paranoid folks think.

The west hates Putin because he is smart and is very good for Russia. Political activists like Vagina Riot represent the people you are defending and to be honest even I can tell which is better for Russia... as do the majority of the voting public in Russia.

But putting a blanket term of traitor on all of them and calling for sanctioning their assets is disgusting.

No one is talking about all opposition to Putin being criminalised... good idea though...  

We are talking about those paid by foreign hostile governments who ask for destabilisation and sanctions against Russia... Which will hurt all Russians... not just Putin or the odd reporter.

Yes, because joining ISIS is the same as calling for sanctions on Putin and his government members. Definitely.

The US government thinks Russia and Ebola are the only world threats even comparable to ISIS. and they have stated as such several times.

And Russian politicians have said nuclear waste needs to be dumped into the Baltics so they all die. Guess who said that, and how many seats in the Duma his party has?

When the Soviet Union collapsed the west promised that the former Soviet Republics would be welcomed into the international community... instead they have had more isolation and sanctions than they got during the cold war... not to mention the demonising.

Why should Russian politicians have any love for the west or the wests "new" turncoat allies in the Baltic etc.

Kills two birds with one stone so to speak...

Good god, I have had just about enough of this logic. Well, erm, it's bad elsewhere too, so don't talk about it!
Have you actually seen Duma sessions Garry? Be honest.
No amount of US Congress asshattery makes the Duma any more useful.

No... you are right... after just 15 years the Russian government and its various components should be superior to anything in the west that has been tweeked and formed over hundreds of years and are still crap.

Is Russia at war with the US? No. Ok then, moving on.

So Russian spies in the US don't go to jail?

We are talking Russian nationals criticizing the Russian political establishment, and being branded traitors as a result. What does that have Bout being nabbed?

No we are not. We are suggesting that Russians who go to a foreign country and actively try to get that foreign country to take sanctions against Russia to hurt Russia economically should be punnished... the crime they commit determining whether they are deprived of economic gain from their actions through to more serious results like loss of citizenship.

US reach is global... the US punishes foreign nationals who commit crimes in foreign countries in the US... why should Russia not punnish Russians who commit crimes or endanger Russian interests?

Asking for sanctions is not a crime in the Russian constitution last I checked.

Clearly a change is needed.

Anyone with two eyes can see the evidence,

I know several blind people with two eyes.

Anyone with two eyes can see the evidence, but once again, that is generally irrelevant to what I am saying.
I'm not even talking about international rules here, just the handling of political opposition.

Well let me put it another way... the US and the West imposed sanctions on Russia without actually producing any evidence of their guilt.

Half of the kretins posting in this thread were openly cheering for Nemtsov's murder.

He was a pawn likely killed by those he thought were his allies who decided he was worth more to them as a Martyr.

1. Saying the US does worse isn't really a defense.

Saying that is the way it is done everywhere... do you think once you have fixed things in Russia you might start fixing things everywhere else?

1. I know The Russian1 since MP.net, his views aren't new to me. His views are marked by what is unarguable a distaste for current methods inside. I agree partly with him. The level of misappropriation is enormous in Russia. And it is done without much finesse. But so it is at home. The Balkans are a kind of little Russia in that aspect.

WOW.... corruption in Russia? Never!

Halliburton has made 40 billion dollars in the last 15-20 years rebuilding (badly) the countries that the US had been bombing the last two decades and you talk about Russian corruption?

I'm speaking about people that might be a decent opposition, that don't have much choice to begin with.

What has democracy to do with choice? Republican or Democrat... or a wasted vote on Ross Periot... yeah that is democracy...

Personally I see a lot of myself in TR-1... I defend the underdog... on US Strong websites I spend a lot of time defending Russian equipment and technology and simply Russians as being real people rather than their one dimensional stereotypes... and I get called commie and Russia lover and why don't I live there and all that crap.

On pro Russian forums I often find myself defending US equipment as not being all marketing hype and BS.

What I don't understand is TR-1s pathological hatred for Putin, and his eternal pessimism...

Fine... you don't like Putin... please name names of people who can fix russia and make it all perfect... because from where I am sitting Putin would not be so hated in the west if he wasn't doing such a good job of turning Russia around. Sure it has plenty of resources, but many in his position could have been lured by the west into selling out Russia to the big western companies just waiting to strip Russia of everything it has of worth.

The current leadership should step down in the near future, even for the sake of "change". As I told you Russia isn't monolithical, but the revolving door issue is real. That door is stuck. Now yes, it isn't in times like these that people should ask for more Majdanoz.

Why?

If it is working as well as Putin... you don't give away the goose that lays the golden eggs.

How about screw the stupid constitution written largely by "western experts"... New Zealand has a democracy and there is no demand for limits on leaders in power... if elected they can have as many terms as they want. Democracy should be about choice... the fact that the alternatives are a joke is hardly Putins fault.

We are reminded 24/7 that Rasha is an agressor in Ukraine. Again the power of propaganda. You simply can't beat it. You can educate yourself as much as you want. You'll end up in world that will be incompatible with your POV.

You seem to think the US is the Borg and that it is inevitable that we all assimilate... the problem is that the world could barely take 400 million American consumers.... there is no way it will take 8 billion consumers that consume at the rate of an American...

equally there are plenty in the world repulsed by American values... we have seen the Russians being pushed away by the west with sanctions... the west thinks that when the sanctions end it will be all back to normal, but Russia is expanding its trading to other areas and is finding places that wont impose sanctions on Russia to trade with... by the time those sanctions end I rather doubt Russia will want to start importing material from the EU again... equally with all the EU BS about owning pipes and the energy sources, it is pretty clear the Russians are washing their hands of the EU in terms of gas supply. they will pipe it to Turkey and the EU can sort it out from there. I suspect in the very near future gas supplies going through the Ukraine will be stopped permanently and the EU will have to get all its Russian gas from Turkey... China and Asia is replacing Europe in terms of gas sales and likely in a range of other areas as well.

It's simple, and that's nothing you can do about it. Really.

Actually there is plenty you can do about it. Be selective about what you watch and where you get your information for a start.

IT's a fact there is no free market, when big bad Rasha is concerned. So effectively you simply CAN'T try and diversify in the classical sense. Plus corruption and sclerosed state policies.

Of course there is no free market, but the west and the US are only a tiny part of the world... they have been lazy in the past and just looked to where all the big and easy money is, but the sanctions from the west have clearly opened their eyes and now they are looking elsewhere... initially for import substitutes like food, but expansion of such cooperation means the diversification they should have focussed on ages ago.

GarryB wrote:

How is being a thief in the Kremlin NOT being a traitor?

A serious charge often mentioned in the western media too, yet never with any evidence.

I hope I'm not gonna be called a Putin-bot for posting this, but here's an observation by a woman (an American) who ACTUALLY has met Putin:

ST wrote:...
In addition to my personal experience with Putin, I've had discussions with numerous American officials and U.S. businessmen who have had years of experience working with him - - I believe it is safe to say that none would describe him as "brutal" or "thuggish", or the other slanderous adjectives and nouns that are repeatedly used in western media.
...

ST wrote:...
I met Putin years before he ever dreamed of being president of Russia, as did many of us working in St.Petersburg during the 1990s. Since all of the slander started, I've become nearly obsessed with understanding his character. I think I've read every major speech he has given (including the full texts of his annual hours-long telephone "talk-ins" with Russian citizens).
...

ST wrote:CCI stood on the principle that we would never, never give bribes. This bureaucrat was open, inquiring, and impersonal in demeanor. After more than an hour of careful questions and answers, he quietly explained that he had tried hard to determine if the proposal was legal, then said that unfortunately at the time it was not. A few good words about the proposal were uttered. That was all. He simply and kindly showed us to the door. Out on the sidewalk, I said to my colleague, "Volodya, this is the first time we have ever dealt with a Soviet bureaucrat who didn't ask us for a trip to the US or something valuable!" I remember looking at his business card in the sunlight - - it read Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

Read the whole thing:
Is Putin incorruptible? U.S. insider's view of the Russian president's character and his country's transformation

Of course, people do change after years in power, and I wouldn't dare challenge someone who actually lives in Russia on how things actually are there...just presenting a view different than what you read in western MSM.
A good read even if you don't believe a word that this woman is saying.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

The current leadership should step down in the near future, even for the sake of "change". As I told you Russia isn't monolithical, but the revolving door issue is real. That door is stuck. Now yes, it isn't in times like these that people should ask for more Majdanoz.

That not only a damn from guilable people that believe the people are the problem rather than the system. It will not change a thing especially with such retarded demands "Step down let someone else do it"

Politics is not some random game, it does not matter if you believe in democracy or not, politics is a very delicate thing and you can not just install one stupid cunt after another. How did this "Step down Yanukowich" worked out for the ukropians? Fact is anyone that demands a change in leadership without knowing who will be next or having solutions for it is not someone who understands politics, sorry to break it for you that is not how you handle problems by just changing leadership which play all the same game or whore themselfs to the enemy US.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
The issues won't go away with the CBR being enslaved to the Russian State. The Forex milking had only partly to do with it. The capital flight, the fact that Russia has up to 5 billions on "private" customs declaration from the US, the fact that there is a tie down with oil will not be countered by the CBR being state controlled. The monetary aspect of it can't trup the fiscal policies of Russia and the general lawlessness when it comes to taxation. We all know of the ghost debts some of teh bigger Russian companies accumulate.

I did not say that CBR is solution to everything i said it is ONE of the two fronts where you are absolutley univetable to federalize if you want to deal with corruption problem. You can't just expect to deal with illegal prostitution by jailing prostitutes but let the Pimp run freely around. I think you are underestimating the role of CBR overthe years and especially under this sanction war they were one of big reasons for milking the forex stock out. You can't fight on a single front, because they will just keep replacing their little lobbyists and oligarchs, you need to fight on all front otherwise they overwhelm you.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Again you don't cool down Forex milking with the CBR alone. You do it by publically tackling the sharking. People were shorting the RUB at 45 vs USD and caused a direct panic. The fact that the CBR allowed idiotic loans to Russian Big Biz would have indeed been a fact sooner or later, with or without RF control on the CBR. A perfect cynical would say that at least that money went to Russian Big Biz and thus some money will go back to the Russian budget.

You might do not like it but what we need is a Stalin Purge in an economical way, seize all private money from the whores that are working against russia, who are the speculators, who are the panic makers, who are the lobbyists from private companies from abroad and CBR and government. You don't like such measurements but you will NEVER deal with a problem by doing it one by one, with getting one shark out of the system they already have infiltrated with two more. Play by their rules and you lose always.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Agreed, but you can criticize. Critics are easy, I agree as well.

That is what you have demanded that the current leadership should step down... ok in our little hypothetical russia, Putin and his personal (direct and indirect) advicers and his appointed officials have stepped down. What now? Who will do the job? Who will the person be a pro russian or one of the various coup de etat 5th columnists the West has instructed, which go in and out of the US embassy? This is not a rhetoric question, you are making critics and i demand from you now solutions to your created problem!

KoTeMoRe wrote:
That is however something different. This "lowering" of standarts is a fact. It's called the appeal of the dominant culture. People will do as what they see being the dominant culture. You simply can't beat the US as it is now. US filmmaking has always been massive garbage. Production values were always low, with moral clichés. The very few challenging movies for instance have been even worse.

IT is something different but it is the same, it is a controlled process of westernization that is LOBBIED, that is not a normal process it is a forced one an artificial created one.
You do understand that this are all artificial created systems and not some random natural process? The top 100 music charts across europe and norht america along with lot of asian countries what kind of music is played? Pop or Hip Hop, this charts are controlled, to constantly keep the music in this charts which are purposed to change culture. Most youngsters do not even know anything about music, they haven't heared about anything else but what they push into the charts and play all day long same garbage in radio without alternatives.

Music industry is not the only measurement that is controlled in that manner. It is not a dominant nor a culture it is just unchallanged and lobbied westernization and that is a problem when not keeping up with providing alternatives you und up with one pool of western garbage that is poisoning russia like rest of europe with murican "values" which they never use to apply but somehow even in dispicable movies they manage to make muricans the good guys.

People are growing tired of this westernization, there are lot of hollywood movies but lot of them are garbage constant warmongering and fearmongering against, russians, chinese, muslims and latins, socialists, communists and whatever. There needs to be a regulation commitee that is supervisioned and has regulations, not let in garbage hollywood productions that are trying to create a perception of muslims beeing terrorists that just try to go across all globe and blow up everyone, because reality is it is the US who does it and we need movies about exactly that, no propaganda just showing the endless list of examples where the US is warmongering, with that you would completle serve the entire genre of military action movies then you can let in hollywood productions that are not spreading stupidity and fearmongering towards people, let in stuff like Game of Thrones, quite violent so you need enough valuebale educational or at least close cultural  domestic production.

Russia has a corrupt system in its Ministery of Culture, which gives state budget to HOLLYWOOD regisseurs to produce garbage to lower IQ of russian population. That has to be changed and Install an alternative to Hollywood, russia will not be able to deal in the same scale but it has enough basis and enough people around the globe that would prefer a different mindset. Most asians prefer bollywood over hollywood, since it is cultural much closer to their values and not a barbarian mindset without any culture to base upon like Hollywood. By creating slavywood russia can not only try to keep its people and people abroad slavs and other people closer to it, it can reinforce people to think about their heritage and their roots but it also serves a softpower which the US is master in, but over the years it just gets more bolt and blatant and some people are awaking from this murican nightmare.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Even at the height of US Power Politics crisis. Take "No Way Out" of Donaldson (1987). The movie starts as a very good thriller, that ends up in full paranoia mode. That is called education.

That has to be countered, russia currently sucks at softpowre because it does not commit to it.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Now see 9th Company from Bondarchuk. That's called "factual". Nevermind is blows and gives a totally twisted idea of the Afghan experience (already a fvcking nightmare).

That is the problem, there needs to be a better regulation and an organized film industry which we do not have only the US has one, because the muricans have understood that subversion of the mind is the strongest weapon not brute force, that is the only reason why this mofos can committ genocide after genocide, invade countries for their resources, install dictatorships, create terrorist groups and send them to destablize countries and still westernized and therefore lobotomized population think off them as the good guys.

That has to be countered this pink-glasses view towards everything the US is doing, create an alternative with movies that are showing the truth about all thos wars. I know those movies would never reach western countries but at least you can keep the balance between western Murica F*** Yeah Propaganda and the actual reality who those Muricans actually are when invading the country, not for freedom or democracy but showing their actual intentions and motivations.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
This is something Russia can't compete with. Even back at the Soviet days. Americans can afford to be ruthless motherf****** since they can shape whatever crisis at their advantage. Who remembers that from 150K to 300K (conservative estimates) were killed in a 8 year war and occupation that was illegal from day 1? Bar the Iraqis? No one. It's gone. You'll have the whole "wounded warriors", the families of the KIA and then what?

Russia will never reach that scale unless it commits to it and currently US ecnomy is falling and that is invetibale process, russia just needs to slow down the propaganda of the west which is growing stronger in eastern countries and central,south america and Asia. There softpower and propaganda is pretty strong, there is no other way to say it, there are retarded people being lobotomized by US Propaganda despite being Iraqi, Vietnamese, Korean, German or Japanese, those countries have been through genocide by the west with usage of WMD's like nukes, sarin, agent orange,blue and white phosphorous bombardment of villages, same as direct execution of POW's since they were "incivilized barbarians".

We just need an alternative, subtle and at the same time not to off-topic, show the world who the occupator is who the enemy is.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
We are reminded 24/7 that Rasha is an agressor in Ukraine. Again the power of propaganda. You simply can't beat it. You can educate yourself as much as you want. You'll end up in world that will be incompatible with your POV.

This narrative does not work that good thanks to Russia Today, just one single newsnetwork for english speaking channel managed to crumble the well established monopoly of western propaganda with Fox, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, BBC and co. They have even declared RT as a threat to US national security and of course it is, as soon people are awakend from this murican dream they realize the reality is more a nightmare than a good dream. What were the measures by US after RT broke their monopoly? They established and created new more subtle newsnetworks which are subtle and at the same time blatant lies like Vice News with the russophobe Simon. I have to admit in comperision with the MSM of Fox, CNN, BBC and co it is a fucking genius propaganda, the problem here it works still to well and it is not aimed at general public but at younger generations meaning they already breed today new generations of imbeciles since Fox, CNN,BBC did not manage to reach the younger generations anymore. The problem is to counter exactly this.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
However the 5th C isn't a problem when 9 out 10 films your kid sees are Hollywood bullshit. When the brands he wants to wear are US based. When for his birthday he wants Micky Dee partaaaay. When he wants a car for having his Law degree. There is a way of shaping out the generations that we can't oppose to.

It's simple, and that's nothing you can do about it. Really.

If you don't provide alternatives than you are running in westernization and that has to be countered at any cost.

Regulation of what garbage is shown and right out ban garbage that is subverssive, we know the US will demonize russia anyway so you can do what the fuck is necessary. You will never counter problems when you don't provide alternatives for the domestic and close boardering and partners. The Soviet Union was the peak of human history in education and environment for people to study what field ever. This has to retearn a bastion of education and scientific progress not a bastion of lobotomized people that are becoming degenerated.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
The issue is that you'll run to the same problems most arab economies faced in the 60's and 70's from their own dutch diseases. See most Joint ventures in Russia sell current or former generation items pimped up. The best case is the Lada Vesta, which is the Cheap Renault QP platfrom which it shares with Dacia and former Megane. The car looks brand new, the technology behind it isn't. So that's the issue with Russia, it can't even afford to go the Koren Route, since Korea was in a FFA race to export with capital flowing to Asia. Capital will never go to Russia for the simple fact it is a sovereign country. The State of Russia needs to create its own brands, its own markets and its own niches.

That could work IF the mood towards Russia was neutral at least. It doesn't because Europoors want cash and Europaranoids would rather whore themselves to Ze Germanz instead of trying to have a profitable relationship with Russia. This is a fact again. So Russia can't pull a China without being Flagged. See Gazprom. See the Russian attempted aquisitions, Sport clubs, Real Estate, low volume companies? OK. But there's hell to pay for Russians to buy shares into "strategic companies", banks or even any big asset out there.

IT's a fact there is no free market, when big bad Rasha is concerned. So effectively you simply CAN'T try and diversify in the classical sense. Plus corruption and sclerosed state policies.

But all this isn't as bad. It's just the way it is.

The solution is ofcourse not making an Apple product with fancy design but garbage in the inside. Russia just lacks the ideology it needs. That is the problem here, it needs an ideology and not some communist or murican hegemony dream, just an ideology of progress and being again the peak of education and science in the world. Russia is just floating around with no ideology where peoples minds are affected by softpower from the west to get more lazy and dumber every day so russia needs to emphasize field of education and scientific progress for its own well and everyones well.

Europoors are not following Germany, because it is a slave nation, occupied by US and UK and without a basic law, no constitution and a sterilized population, no one is proud of being german, people are getting indoctrinated into guilt for WW2, in schools they do not teach anything else but german guilt like the history of germany is not older than 1939 and nothing else is teached except this things, WW2,WW1 germans guilt and USA won D-Day and WW2 and the american history. Germany is just an administrative of US.

The problem is when you don't even attempt to counter this propaganda and narrative that the West is pulling out against russia and every other country that is not ass-licking US or Israel than you will of course not be able to do jack shit, but russia has started to counter that narrative it is called RT and by the first attempt they broke the MSM monopoly, while China tried it and failed with same as PressTV of Iran, which are banned btw. The problem here remains that russia is horrible at propaganda and RT works only because they are not making propaganda they just list all the examples of Western hypocrisy towards politics like John Kerry's "One country does not invade another on false pretext". Russia needs to provide all softpower an alternative narrative.

It already offers or attempts to offer an alternative to the Western controlled and closed market with BRICS. Russia has the progress it needs and that is due to putin and his advicers, it is a slow process but there is one with visible progress.[/quote]
[/quote]

What has democracy to do with choice? Republican or Democrat... or a wasted vote on Ross Periot... yeah that is democracy...

Personally I see a lot of myself in TR-1... I defend the underdog... on US Strong websites I spend a lot of time defending Russian equipment and technology and simply Russians as being real people rather than their one dimensional stereotypes... and I get called commie and Russia lover and why don't I live there and all that crap.

On pro Russian forums I often find myself defending US equipment as not being all marketing hype and BS.

What I don't understand is TR-1s pathological hatred for Putin, and his eternal pessimism...

Fine... you don't like Putin... please name names of people who can fix russia and make it all perfect... because from where I am sitting Putin would not be so hated in the west if he wasn't doing such a good job of turning Russia around. Sure it has plenty of resources, but many in his position could have been lured by the west into selling out Russia to the big western companies just waiting to strip Russia of everything it has of worth.

If you haven't paying attention Garry, that is what i did the past 2 years trying to ask this guy what his problem is with Putin and who else there is that would do a better job in his favor?

He never answered that just the casual and common peasant ractions "PUTIN EVIL CRIMINAL THIEF" no specifics, to where and it what manner or who will be doing better.

TR1 is not a critic, yapping without a specific example of what is been done wrong and find solutions is not criticism it is peasantry.

It is a simple fact russia and Putin has no Oppossition. Someone who is paid to be the Oppossition is not the oppossition. An Oppossition is described as a counter party that is trying to change politics to the better. Nemzov was never going to do anything better but do the same as Yeltzin did, sell russia out and insert the micropenis of US.

The only one that would come even close to an oppossition is PVO party with Starikow, but he is a supporter of Putin, but he is also the only one that has ever addressed this issue, when Putin is gone who will be the next one. So he is working with his party PVO to that to be in future a party that protects Russia that is why the party acronym is PVO like the which is Anti Air Defense, to protect russia from western bombardment.

Werewolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

The current leadership should step down in the near future, even for the sake of "change". As I told you Russia isn't monolithical, but the revolving door issue is real. That door is stuck. Now yes, it isn't in times like these that people should ask for more Majdanoz.

That not only a damn from guilable people that believe the people are the problem rather than the system. It will not change a thing especially with such retarded demands "Step down let someone else do it"

Politics is not some random game, it does not matter if you believe in democracy or not, politics is a very delicate thing and you can not just install one stupid cunt after another. How did this "Step down Yanukowich" worked out for the ukropians? Fact is anyone that demands a change in leadership without knowing who will be next or having solutions for it is not someone who understands politics, sorry to break it for you that is not how you handle problems by just changing leadership which play all the same game or whore themselfs to the enemy US.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
The issues won't go away with the CBR being enslaved to the Russian State. The Forex milking had only partly to do with it. The capital flight, the fact that Russia has up to 5 billions on "private" customs declaration from the US, the fact that there is a tie down with oil will not be countered by the CBR being state controlled. The monetary aspect of it can't trup the fiscal policies of Russia and the general lawlessness when it comes to taxation. We all know of the ghost debts some of teh bigger Russian companies accumulate.

I did not say that CBR is solution to everything i said it is ONE of the two fronts where you are absolutley univetable to federalize if you want to deal with corruption problem. You can't just expect to deal with illegal prostitution by jailing prostitutes but let the Pimp run freely around. I think you are underestimating the role of CBR overthe years and especially under this sanction war they were one of big reasons for milking the forex stock out. You can't fight on a single front, because they will just keep replacing their little lobbyists and oligarchs, you need to fight on all front otherwise they overwhelm you.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Again you don't cool down Forex milking with the CBR alone. You do it by publically tackling the sharking. People were shorting the RUB at 45 vs USD and caused a direct panic. The fact that the CBR allowed idiotic loans to Russian Big Biz would have indeed been a fact sooner or later, with or without RF control on the CBR. A perfect cynical would say that at least that money went to Russian Big Biz and thus some money will go back to the Russian budget.

You might do not like it but what we need is a Stalin Purge in an economical way, seize all private money from the whores that are working against russia, who are the speculators, who are the panic makers, who are the lobbyists from private companies from abroad and CBR and government. You don't like such measurements but you will NEVER deal with a problem by doing it one by one, with getting one shark out of the system they already have infiltrated with two more. Play by their rules and you lose always.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Agreed, but you can criticize. Critics are easy, I agree as well.

That is what you have demanded that the current leadership should step down... ok in our little hypothetical russia, Putin and his personal (direct and indirect) advicers and his appointed officials have stepped down. What now? Who will do the job? Who will the person be a pro russian or one of the various coup de etat 5th columnists the West has instructed, which go in and out of the US embassy? This is not a rhetoric question, you are making critics and i demand from you now solutions to your created problem!

KoTeMoRe wrote:
That is however something different. This "lowering" of standarts is a fact. It's called the appeal of the dominant culture. People will do as what they see being the dominant culture. You simply can't beat the US as it is now. US filmmaking has always been massive garbage. Production values were always low, with moral clichés. The very few challenging movies for instance have been even worse.

IT is something different but it is the same, it is a controlled process of westernization that is LOBBIED, that is not a normal process it is a forced one an artificial created one.
You do understand that this are all artificial created systems and not some random natural process? The top 100 music charts across europe and norht america along with lot of asian countries what kind of music is played? Pop or Hip Hop, this charts are controlled, to constantly keep the music in this charts which are purposed to change culture. Most youngsters do not even know anything about music, they haven't heared about anything else but what they push into the charts and play all day long same garbage in radio without alternatives.

Music industry is not the only measurement that is controlled in that manner. It is not a dominant nor a culture it is just unchallanged and lobbied westernization and that is a problem when not keeping up with providing alternatives you und up with one pool of western garbage that is poisoning russia like rest of europe with murican "values" which they never use to apply but somehow even in dispicable movies they manage to make muricans the good guys.

People are growing tired of this westernization, there are lot of hollywood movies but lot of them are garbage constant warmongering and fearmongering against, russians, chinese, muslims and latins, socialists, communists and whatever. There needs to be a regulation commitee that is supervisioned and has regulations, not let in garbage hollywood productions that are trying to create a perception of muslims beeing terrorists that just try to go across all globe and blow up everyone, because reality is it is the US who does it and we need movies about exactly that, no propaganda just showing the endless list of examples where the US is warmongering, with that you would completle serve the entire genre of military action movies then you can let in hollywood productions that are not spreading stupidity and fearmongering towards people, let in stuff like Game of Thrones, quite violent so you need enough valuebale educational or at least close cultural  domestic production.

Russia has a corrupt system in its Ministery of Culture, which gives state budget to HOLLYWOOD regisseurs to produce garbage to lower IQ of russian population. That has to be changed and Install an alternative to Hollywood, russia will not be able to deal in the same scale but it has enough basis and enough people around the globe that would prefer a different mindset. Most asians prefer bollywood over hollywood, since it is cultural much closer to their values and not a barbarian mindset without any culture to base upon like Hollywood. By creating slavywood russia can not only try to keep its people and people abroad slavs and other people closer to it, it can reinforce people to think about their heritage and their roots but it also serves a softpower which the US is master in, but over the years it just gets more bolt and blatant and some people are awaking from this murican nightmare.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Even at the height of US Power Politics crisis. Take "No Way Out" of Donaldson (1987). The movie starts as a very good thriller, that ends up in full paranoia mode. That is called education.

That has to be countered, russia currently sucks at softpowre because it does not commit to it.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Now see 9th Company from Bondarchuk. That's called "factual". Nevermind is blows and gives a totally twisted idea of the Afghan experience (already a fvcking nightmare).

That is the problem, there needs to be a better regulation and an organized film industry which we do not have only the US has one, because the muricans have understood that subversion of the mind is the strongest weapon not brute force, that is the only reason why this mofos can committ genocide after genocide, invade countries for their resources, install dictatorships, create terrorist groups and send them to destablize countries and still westernized and therefore lobotomized population think off them as the good guys.

That has to be countered this pink-glasses view towards everything the US is doing, create an alternative with movies that are showing the truth about all thos wars. I know those movies would never reach western countries but at least you can keep the balance between western Murica F*** Yeah Propaganda and the actual reality who those Muricans actually are when invading the country, not for freedom or democracy but showing their actual intentions and motivations.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
This is something Russia can't compete with. Even back at the Soviet days. Americans can afford to be ruthless motherf****** since they can shape whatever crisis at their advantage. Who remembers that from 150K to 300K (conservative estimates) were killed in a 8 year war and occupation that was illegal from day 1? Bar the Iraqis? No one. It's gone. You'll have the whole "wounded warriors", the families of the KIA and then what?

Russia will never reach that scale unless it commits to it and currently US ecnomy is falling and that is invetibale process, russia just needs to slow down the propaganda of the west which is growing stronger in eastern countries and central,south america and Asia. There softpower and propaganda is pretty strong, there is no other way to say it, there are retarded people being lobotomized by US Propaganda despite being Iraqi, Vietnamese, Korean, German or Japanese, those countries have been through genocide by the west with usage of WMD's like nukes, sarin, agent orange,blue and white phosphorous bombardment of villages, same as direct execution of POW's since they were "incivilized barbarians".

We just need an alternative, subtle and at the same time not to off-topic, show the world who the occupator is who the enemy is.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
We are reminded 24/7 that Rasha is an agressor in Ukraine. Again the power of propaganda. You simply can't beat it. You can educate yourself as much as you want. You'll end up in world that will be incompatible with your POV.

This narrative does not work that good thanks to Russia Today, just one single newsnetwork for english speaking channel managed to crumble the well established monopoly of western propaganda with Fox, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, BBC and co. They have even declared RT as a threat to US national security and of course it is, as soon people are awakend from this murican dream they realize the reality is more a nightmare than a good dream. What were the measures by US after RT broke their monopoly? They established and created new more subtle newsnetworks which are subtle and at the same time blatant lies like Vice News with the russophobe Simon. I have to admit in comperision with the MSM of Fox, CNN, BBC and co it is a fucking genius propaganda, the problem here it works still to well and it is not aimed at general public but at younger generations meaning they already breed today new generations of imbeciles since Fox, CNN,BBC did not manage to reach the younger generations anymore. The problem is to counter exactly this.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
However the 5th C isn't a problem when 9 out 10 films your kid sees are Hollywood bullshit. When the brands he wants to wear are US based. When for his birthday he wants Micky Dee partaaaay. When he wants a car for having his Law degree. There is a way of shaping out the generations that we can't oppose to.

It's simple, and that's nothing you can do about it. Really.

If you don't provide alternatives than you are running in westernization and that has to be countered at any cost.

Regulation of what garbage is shown and right out ban garbage that is subverssive, we know the US will demonize russia anyway so you can do what the fuck is necessary. You will never counter problems when you don't provide alternatives for the domestic and close boardering and partners. The Soviet Union was the peak of human history in education and environment for people to study what field ever. This has to retearn a bastion of education and scientific progress not a bastion of lobotomized people that are becoming degenerated.

KoTeMoRe wrote:
The issue is that you'll run to the same problems most arab economies faced in the 60's and 70's from their own dutch diseases. See most Joint ventures in Russia sell current or former generation items pimped up. The best case is the Lada Vesta, which is the Cheap Renault QP platfrom which it shares with Dacia and former Megane. The car looks brand new, the technology behind it isn't. So that's the issue with Russia, it can't even afford to go the Koren Route, since Korea was in a FFA race to export with capital flowing to Asia. Capital will never go to Russia for the simple fact it is a sovereign country. The State of Russia needs to create its own brands, its own markets and its own niches.

That could work IF the mood towards Russia was neutral at least. It doesn't because Europoors want cash and Europaranoids would rather whore themselves to Ze Germanz instead of trying to have a profitable relationship with Russia. This is a fact again. So Russia can't pull a China without being Flagged. See Gazprom. See the Russian attempted aquisitions, Sport clubs, Real Estate, low volume companies? OK. But there's hell to pay for Russians to buy shares into "strategic companies", banks or even any big asset out there.

IT's a fact there is no free market, when big bad Rasha is concerned. So effectively you simply CAN'T try and diversify in the classical sense. Plus corruption and sclerosed state policies.

But all this isn't as bad. It's just the way it is.

The solution is ofcourse not making an Apple product with fancy design but garbage in the inside. Russia just lacks the ideology it needs. That is the problem here, it needs an ideology and not some communist or murican hegemony dream, just an ideology of progress and being again the peak of education and science in the world. Russia is just floating around with no ideology where peoples minds are affected by softpower from the west to get more lazy and dumber every day so russia needs to emphasize field of education and scientific progress for its own well and everyones well.

Europoors are not following Germany, because it is a slave nation, occupied by US and UK and without a basic law, no constitution and a sterilized population, no one is proud of being german, people are getting indoctrinated into guilt for WW2, in schools they do not teach anything else but german guilt like the history of germany is not older than 1939 and nothing else is teached except this things, WW2,WW1 germans guilt and USA won D-Day and WW2 and the american history. Germany is just an administrative of US.

The problem is when you don't even attempt to counter this propaganda and narrative that the West is pulling out against russia and every other country that is not ass-licking US or Israel than you will of course not be able to do jack shit, but russia has started to counter that narrative it is called RT and by the first attempt they broke the MSM monopoly, while China tried it and failed with same as PressTV of Iran, which are banned btw. The problem here remains that russia is horrible at propaganda and RT works only because they are not making propaganda they just list all the examples of Western hypocrisy towards politics like John Kerry's "One country does not invade another on false pretext". Russia needs to provide all softpower an alternative narrative.

It already offers or attempts to offer an alternative to the Western controlled and closed market with BRICS. Russia has the progress it needs and that is due to putin and his advicers, it is a slow process but there is one with visible progress.

[/quote][/quote]

Wait a minute, I'm not proposing anything new, because:

1. I'm not Russian guys. I'm from Albania. I got enough problems thinking about my own country and region. Balkans ghetto, best ghetto, now opening in Greece.

2. I'm 56, this isn't my time. I've been there done what even was possible. I've seen it happen, people dragged on the streets, made to kneel in front of the fvcking US embassy and humiliated. USA, USA, USA. One of the most hideous moments of the Ukraine Crisis was looking dumbfuck UA colonel Oleh Mamchur parading with Soviet Flag and his idiots screaming Amerika S'Nami. You might excuse me if I'm not into action figures anymore.

3. I'm criticizing what I see as a byproduct of chaos. People want order at all cost. Doesn't work like that. Order benefits the power. Blocks will benefit the majors. Now that there isn't an ideological and systemic rift, that capitalism is the way to go, there is even little to do against US bullshit. It's freaking easy. That's the point. The US makes it look easy. When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do. That's indeed the case. But work is boring for the most part. It is a chore. That's something you don't see from the US. Now it's all about how through IT you can beat the market, earn millions and shit. Yeah lol, no kidding. It might be the future, but people will always need to work, eat, sleep, make love and litigate.

4. If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense). RT is just offerring the same kind of shit, but with Russian flavour. I see lots of guys that know their stuff and can be VERY good at demonstrating points in detail, but "THAT CRAP IS BORING". Having someone demonstrate that Yanukovich wasn't more of a crook when compared to the current clique, will be an investigative piece of an hour at best. And most of the appeal would be lost to Radio Free Europe's 'BUT HE ORDERED THE POLICE TO SHOOT'. That's the very issue I'm telling you. RT is already a low value system. It has many flaws, JUST like the "Free Media".

5. Europoors are knee deep with Ze Germans. They don't have ANY other alternative as long as they are in the EuroZone and EU. Poland's Agriculture 25%, Poland Trade almost 30% (with remittances); Czech Rep 30% of its economy is on German hands. It's a fact. Numbers don't lie.

6. Brics are way to different to be as focused as you think into a specific direction. China wants its share of Asia, Russia wants none of the EU shenanigans, India wants to fit but can't and Brazil is running a way to good business with Europe and USA to make any decisive strategic choice. South AFrica...No Comment.

All this is not done to take a dump on Russia, it is to instill a sense of sanity. There is a need to have a sane relationship with both the EU and USA. Off course being Majdanozed isn't it. And the Russian answer, although not palatable is a clear sign it won't tolerate BS.


Side note:

-On the economic part. Going all French Revolution on rich Russians will not solve anything. It's a matter of system. Russia has a self-destructive system when it comes to money. Non withstanding corruption. This is the norm all over the former Second world. You will only redistribute shady money and have smaller piranhas replace the sharks. BTST.
What is needed is simply retard-proof, Zealot like bureaucrats. You have a good bureaucracy, the private sector will get FAR more inventive and trasnparent. Right now, it is a joke. I don't think that the CBR isn't part of the issue, I think that the CBR's woes now it is independent will reverse when it will be enslaved. IE it will react far slower and without independence. Letting the Ruble float was a very good move, too bad it came after the State had burnt 100 bln USD.

Again it is a matter of system.

-The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

kvs wrote:The attacks on Putin are a standard propaganda ploy.  Demonize the leader with a hail of lies and then try to
stage a coup or invade.   What the Russian public wants is not a consideration for the west and for its little
goose stepping drones like TR1.   The anti-Russian propaganda has some features which are of interest:

1) The constant harping about corruption and Putin being a thief at the head of a bunch of kleptocrats.
This is a clear attempt to confuse the Russian public and such tricks work.  Get enough parrots to repeat
the same line over and over and people absorb it as the default state.   It is following the propaganda
recipe of Goebbels.  It is funny how during the 1990s, and I recall this clearly, the subject of corruption
in Russia and the fact that Yeltsin's regime was a kleptocracy was simply not important for the west
and was not a trope repeated daily ad nauseam.  Yet when things in Russia started to seriously
improve after Putin took over all of the sudden the NATO media and assorted propaganda operations like
"Transparency International" discovered corruption in Russia.   From the NATO media coverage you would
think that the 1990s were not the gangster paradise period in Russia when gangland murders were rampant
and that all the problems happened under Putin.


2) Russia is an aggressor which is invading Ukraine and Georgia.  Democracy loving countries trying to
defend their rights.   This grotesque lie is aimed both at Russians and at the lemmings that inhabit the west.
You will note that the west was all about support for the KLA and Kosovo's right to secede.   The issue
of territorial integrity of Serbia was not even discussed.   The International Court of Justice at the Hague
ruled that the right to self-determination trumps territorial integrity.   Yet we have South Ossetians and
Donbas Russians denied any rights by NATO.   And NATO fully supported and supports military campaigns
to suppress these people including through war criminal tactics such as indiscriminate shelling and MLRS
attacks, which BTW happened in South Ossetia when Suckshitvilli the tie eater launched a sneak midnight
attack on Tskhinval after going on TV the previous evening and promising peace.   The NATO-installed
Kiev regime is also using these war criminal tactics and has been randomly shelling basically every population
point in the Donbas that is within range.   There is no condemnation of this from NATO whatsoever and it
is clear that this is a tactic approved by the NATO handlers of both Poroshenko today and Suckshitvilli in 2008.
But Russia is supposed to be the aggressor.    


NATO obviously has zero credibility when it comes to criticism of Russia.  All the hate it spreads is a tool to
further its imperial agenda.   The analysis I posted in the other thread about the attack on Gazprom by the
EU highlights the bitter, petty hate that NATO maggots have for Russia and Putin specifically because he
denied them the chance to colonize Russia and run it like a banana republic.    When Putin started to get
rid of the illegal deals created under the Yeltsin regime that "gave away" Russian resources to western corporations
(Russian resources cannot be sold, only the rights to extract them can be sold, but Yeltsin being a good
comprador thought otherwise) the coverage of Russian in the NATO media filled with bile and hate.  

Which is what I wrote. As long as Russia will have a sovereign, no fvcks given policy, this will be on the Menu. Gomosex B-Verbotten in MOrdor. Call Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

Wait a minute, I'm not proposing anything new, because:

1. I'm not Russian guys. I'm from Albania. I got enough problems thinking about my own country and region. Balkans ghetto, best ghetto, now opening in Greece.

Than don't demand things you are not in position to demand in the first place. You are no russian, you have no plan who should replace the current leadership than why demanding the current leadership in russia to step down? Such a thing would only do two kinds of people naive fools or people who benefit from a weak russia.

3. I'm criticizing what I see as a byproduct of chaos. People want order at all cost. Doesn't work like that. Order benefits the power. Blocks will benefit the majors. Now that there isn't an ideological and systemic rift, that capitalism is the way to go, there is even little to do against US bullshit. It's freaking easy. That's the point. The US makes it look easy. When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do. That's indeed the case. But work is boring for the most part. It is a chore. That's something you don't see from the US. Now it's all about how through IT you can beat the market, earn millions and shit. Yeah lol, no kidding. It might be the future, but people will always need to work, eat, sleep, make love and litigate.

People want order to all cost is the product of the controlled MSM that constantly spreads fear that we fucking europeans are somehow in jeopardy from some religious fanatics the US and its puppets have financed themselfs or that somehow Iran or North Korea is a threat to the world next to russia while their record speaks otherwise. You have to counter the fearmongering from Western controlled MSM.

There is alot to do to counter US bullshit and currently Russia is doing it. People who say there is nothing that can be done either have a very low education on that political field or are just right out missplaced to talk about politics at all. I already have shown you several things that can be done but you stick to the bullshit that the USA is 2012 and will finish us all, the US is already finished its fall is inevitable.

When I push my son to take a look at my adoption cases so he can have a little edge vs his friends. He says it's boring, a chore to do.

That is the problem under Soviet Union there was an ideology for progress and education, there were many kids going to schools and actually enjoying it, today it is the oppossite. What problem i have with people like you is your mindset. You are thinking out of personal, short term and not collective long term point of view. If you want to change this that the kids today value time wasting garbage with unimportant time consumers rather than thinking about future, than there is little you can do alone but there is alot you can do from a political point of view. You have to restablish what i constantly say, the passion and ideology for education and science. There are many professions today seen as some dead end job without honor while in Soviet times being a teacher was one hell of prestige job, being responsible for the education of the next generations and building own future. Today it is the opposite, we have incompetent teachers that just are teachers because it is a safe job which can't be fired from unless you committ murder or rape the kids, but being a bad teacher you will not lose your job or being even partially racist will not be a reason to fire you at least that is how it is here in germany and in some other western countries.

4. If RT is your view on countering propaganda, then you're crazy (no offense). RT is just offerring the same kind of shit, but with Russian flavour. I see lots of guys that know their stuff and can be VERY good at demonstrating points in detail, but "THAT CRAP IS BORING". Having someone demonstrate that Yanukovich wasn't more of a crook when compared to the current clique, will be an investigative piece of an hour at best. And most of the appeal would be lost to Radio Free Europe's 'BUT HE ORDERED THE POLICE TO SHOOT'. That's the very issue I'm telling you. RT is already a low value system. It has many flaws, JUST like the "Free Media".

If you see RT as an useless tool to balance the monopoly of narrative the west brings than you clearly have no idea how politics works. Softpower is the king of war and peace. If you think RT is bad than you clearly have no buisness in geopolitics. The content is not the same, RT is not spreading fear and warmongering rhetorics to demonize countries or to coverup stories to invade other countries. It is surely not what i would want to have as the standard for News and Journalism, but you are a fool if you believe Media can be free. The actual free media are people that do it as a hobby and have only a couple of hunred views or maybe thousands views and have no income. This are comercialized media for the purpose of representing a narrative and that is important if you like it or not, but RT is doing a great job of countering the propaganda and it indeed has broke the total Monopoly of western controlled MSM where western people seek now alternative news. You can call RT whatever you want but it is an important and good step of breaking this "Ruzzian evil" garbage.

5. Europoors are knee deep with Ze Germans. They don't have ANY other alternative as long as they are in the EuroZone and EU. Poland's Agriculture 25%, Poland Trade almost 30% (with remittances); Czech Rep 30% of its economy is on German hands. It's a fact. Numbers don't lie.

Everyone that use wrong examples and does not see the politics behind it is someone that does not understand geopolitics. It is not germany, germany is a Proxy embassy of the US. The EU is an US construct with Germany next to Brussel as the administrative which is directed and supervisioned by Washington. Don't even believe for a moment that Germany is some souvereign state doing it all out of own interest, it is not. No politician in germany has severed the last 70 years for german interests but Washingtons. People should realize that, because this Devide at impera is working exactly in this manner, using Germany as the evil power over the countries that have been defaulted via IMF and US to canalize the hatred against each other rather where the hatred should go towards Washington.

6. Brics are way to different to be as focused as you think into a specific direction. China wants its share of Asia, Russia wants none of the EU shenanigans, India wants to fit but can't and Brazil is running a way to good business with Europe and USA to make any decisive strategic choice. South AFrica...No Comment.

All this is not done to take a dump on Russia, it is to instill a sense of sanity. There is a need to have a sane relationship with both the EU and USA. Off course being Majdanozed isn't it. And the Russian answer, although not palatable is a clear sign it won't tolerate BS.

Yes, you are right that they all want to serve their own interest, but they won't be able without BRICS, because the western market is a closed one for US asslickers only, meaning they are doing it out of own interest on a mutual basis, if they like it or not. That gives at least some freedom for economical shift and not relying on an evil controlled market which the West abuses and uses against countries that are not licking their bum.

There is not basis to have any relationsship with USA at all, it is an evil empire that is playing european and all other countries around the globe against each other for the US gain. Russia needs to counter the russophobic views created by US in europe to have their good relationships. The problem for Russia are only from Germany and the countries in between. They need to counter the russophobia in Poland, the failed states of baltics, romania, bulgaria, czech and ukraine other than that Russia does not need to get more narrative spreading across europe at all. Germany is a crucial and vital part for good relationships with entire europe that is why US does everything to undermine russian and german relationships.

Side note:

-On the economic part. Going all French Revolution on rich Russians will not solve anything. It's a matter of system. Russia has a self-destructive system when it comes to money. Non withstanding corruption. This is the norm all over the former Second world. You will only redistribute shady money and have smaller piranhas replace the sharks. BTST.
What is needed is simply retard-proof, Zealot like bureaucrats. You have a good bureaucracy, the private sector will get FAR more inventive and trasnparent. Right now, it is a joke. I don't think that the CBR isn't part of the issue, I think that the CBR's woes now it is independent will reverse when it will be enslaved. IE it will react far slower and without independence. Letting the Ruble float was a very good move, too bad it came after the State had burnt 100 bln USD.

There is a change needed but from own experience privatization and bureaucracy it is definitley not the way to go. Corruption here in germany is the 2nd most corrupt country on this planet after US and we are the most bureacratic country. The corruption is just legalized and canalized more or less making corruption a legal thing by loopholes everywhere, hard for small buisness but a dreamland for big buisnesses to be corrupt. You have no idea how the big gap between the corruption in russia and in Germany is. Germany beats the shit out of russia in corruption. It is just freaking subtile empowered by laws and loopholes in laws and the population is knowing it but they don't see the extent of it. Believing that a PRIVATE bank will respond in favor of a country is just lying to yourself. Private banks are only interested in private income and currently the constitution overrules the treaty obligations the CBR has to take control and stability of the Ruble, it was one of the major factors of burning the forex money.

Again it is a matter of system.

-The executive part. People are going to want some change. Even simply a face swap. FFS even the PolitBureau did that. I know that first hand. It's how politics work. I'm not demanding for Putin to step down NOW. NOT even in the near future. But 3 terms are enough.

That is exactly what you demand, putin to step down, he is in his third period. Demanding such a thing is retarded. Question who do you want to see next? I want a name a party?

That is the problem people are only scratching on the surface to politics but are the first to demand things without understanding the consequences. You can not change the system just by replacing people who are currently working for CHANGEMENT. The next people that will be leading we don't know them yet, there is no one on the horizont that would do even a 100th percentage of what Putin did. Demanding change without solution is retarded, get more involved in inner politics and geopolitics before demanding.

That is how bloody revolutions come, people yelling for Change, peasants they are no plan of politics or how to change things are glad to overthrow one or to see someone gone and to see someone new than to realize ohh shit it is worse than before, which is called the fucking USA, every asshole of president did worse, Clinton, Bush, Obama and next will be Hillary Clinton and FFS if under her there are no nukes flying than this must be the proof for gods existence, because people are stupid enough to excuse every WW3 scenario under this vile creature.