PLA Air Force General News Thread:

Sujoy wrote:

GarryB wrote:The west is no better on either count.... at least they don't invade countries every other day and murder thousands of people a year with drones...

Head of NATO says that China is not an enemy of NATO/West. However, these same set of people will suggest that NATO/West needs nuclear weapons to stop Russia.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/06/global-insider-nato-china-ties-515188

Imagine.. Russia a country whose economy is just 1/6 of China's and a defence budget that is 1/3 of China's is a threat to the West but China's isn't.

My point is,the West never considered China to be an adversary. In fact China is an ally of the West (along with Pakistan) that helps them to pin down two countries they dislike the most - Russia and India.

I'm with you, Sujoy. You make good posts. And beyond that, I think the west thought it could keep chicoms on a leash while using them for cheap labor. They were wrong ultimately. Western politicians and businessmen sold the west out in their greed. I think many Indians feel their politicians and businessmen are equally as corrupt and unpatriotic. Their money is overseas. Where your money and belongings go, there is where your heart rests.

I find that video whipping the Chinese for not being the total that the US and its european allies are amusing... it seems having a military for self defence instead of world domination is a bad thing in western eyes.

Also amusing that he included France as a world threat and Russia... I would lump Russia with China as being more defensive and not wanting to rule the world, but he is right on the money with France and now the UK which is probably going to get more colonial now it has left the EU.

Of course his list of world threats really only needs to include the US... because that is what it is and what it represents and what this Chinese and Russian military build up is meant to deal with.

China and Russia don't want to invade countries like the US does, they don't want to rule the world or reshape the world in their image with their values and their fast food franchises... they just want to be left alone and the US seeing that as a threat than needs to be challenged tells you all you need to know about the US and the west that blindly supports them.

BTW you could argue with the comments about experience... the British and French had way more experience than the Germans at the start of WWII and got their butts handed to them because they were fighting like it was WWI part two, at a time when it was a whole new war. What happened to the Soviets would have happened to the British if they had more land to retreat across, but fortunately for them they had a large body of water to shield them from the land limited Germans.

Claiming the Chinese are a new creation less than 100 years old is amusing and of course totally wrong.

GarryB wrote:BTW you could argue with the comments about experience... the British and French had way more experience than the Germans at the start of WWII and got their butts handed to them because they were fighting like it was WWI part two, at a time when it was a whole new war. What happened to the Soviets would have happened to the British if they had more land to retreat across, but fortunately for them they had a large body of water to shield them from the land limited Germans.

Claiming the Chinese are a new creation less than 100 years old is amusing and of course totally wrong.

Yea, i find his entire "experience" argument to be nonsense.
And more of a coping mechanism in order to maintain his belief in the U.S military.

BP is clearly going threw some "5 stages of grief" as he comes to terms with the decline and inevitable fall of the West.

On the historical point alone, he points towards China's defeat at the hands of Vietnam in the 70s, but conveniently forgets the Korean war.
And if we are talking experience, than shouldn't the U.S forces who still had many battle hardened soldiers and officers from WW2, completely trounce the lesser experienced Chinese forces?
Yet they were pushed pushed back to the 38th parallel.

And then there's the issue of conflating a well a trained modern military with advanced weapon systems, to barely organized terrorists forces with with defunct and scavenged together weapons.
Assuming that having "experience" with the latter, means that you can take on the former, is totally insane.

I can understand why that Sujoy is so very upset with China. Images released by Chinese authorities earlier today shows that Indian Army was badly thrashed by China last year. Cope Sujoy

The J-16D electronic warfare aircraft has started combat training.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1238277.shtml

Experience per say is not a bad thing but it does not solve fundamental problems like not being able to defeat manouvering hypersonic missiles for instance.

The Soviets had experience before facing the Germans in WWII in Spain and Mongolia and also Finland... they learned some useful things, like they need to improve their tanks because T-26s are not good enough and need heavier armour, they learned that the Polikarpov fighters are not terrible but new German planes means they need to upgrade to LaGG and Yak and MiG types with higher performance, and of course the guy in charge of small arms procurement for the Soviets is a dick and should have gone for rather more sub machine guns for troops fighting in forests and built up areas where everyone with a bolt action rifle is not ideal... they also looked at their command structure and training too but not really with enough time to make significant changes.

The Amusing thing is that the HATO trained Georgian force of 2008 had HATO training and recent operational experience but they didn't walk all over the conscript Russian Army despite its flaws and problems.

In fact I would say the Russians turned their military force around without being involved in conflicts and were able to make the necessary changes to C4IRSTAR and equipment and also training to the point where they are a force comparable with any HATO force except for numbers really.

The Chinese don't need to invade a country to learn the lessons from other countries with recent combat experience... they say a smart man learns from his mistakes.... but a smart man actually learns from the mistakes of others and avoids making mistakes himself.

Some J-16 pictures.

The lower end of the Wing Dong-10 drone

The PLA Air Force began to enter massively new generation J-20 fighters with modifications of the Chinese WS-10 aircraft engines instead of the Russian Al-31F

https://en.topwar.ru/190129-v-vvs-noak-nachali-massovo-postupat-istrebiteli-novogo-pokolenija-j-20-s-modifikacijami-kitajskih-aviadvigatelej-ws-10-vmesto-rossijskih-al-31f.html

The article is garbage, as there isn't a real source and on top of it, geography is wrong too in the article.

Seriously, also read comments. People there have zero idea and down vote the guys who actually talk technical and tell people China just caught up a few years after 20 years ago.

George, do you ever read the garbage sources you provide? Or do you just enjoy enraging others?

miketheterrible wrote:The article is garbage, as there isn't a real source and on top of it, geography is wrong too in the article.

Seriously, also read comments. People there have zero idea and down vote the guys who actually talk technical and tell people China just caught up a few years after 20 years ago.

George, do you ever read the garbage sources you provide? Or do you just enjoy enraging others?

you have better watch your mouth

George1 wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:The article is garbage, as there isn't a real source and on top of it, geography is wrong too in the article.

Seriously, also read comments. People there have zero idea and down vote the guys who actually talk technical and tell people China just caught up a few years after 20 years ago.

George, do you ever read the garbage sources you provide? Or do you just enjoy enraging others?

you have better watch your mouth

Really? Or what? You guys seem to let the moron trolls run rampant. Shall I name them? Like Arrow, Karl, RTN, etc?

And what exactly did I say that is incorrect? Did you even read the article? It didn't even know where India is in geography to China.

miketheterrible wrote:

George1 wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:The article is garbage, as there isn't a real source and on top of it, geography is wrong too in the article.

Seriously, also read comments. People there have zero idea and down vote the guys who actually talk technical and tell people China just caught up a few years after 20 years ago.

George, do you ever read the garbage sources you provide? Or do you just enjoy enraging others?

you have better watch your mouth

Really? Or what? You guys seem to let the moron trolls run rampant.

And what exactly did I say that is incorrect? Did you even read the article?

you always consider as anti-russian anything you dont like..or you dont agree with it

George1 wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

George1 wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:The article is garbage, as there isn't a real source and on top of it, geography is wrong too in the article.

Seriously, also read comments. People there have zero idea and down vote the guys who actually talk technical and tell people China just caught up a few years after 20 years ago.

George, do you ever read the garbage sources you provide? Or do you just enjoy enraging others?

you have better watch your mouth

Really? Or what? You guys seem to let the moron trolls run rampant.

And what exactly did I say that is incorrect? Did you even read the article?

you always consider as anti-russian anything you dont like..or you dont agree with it

That's not an argument.

Not only not to what I said, but also the fact that I pointed out what is wrong. Your threats isn't necessary either in that regard. Instead, save your threats for the people actually purposefully trolling this forums that I, papa, kvs and plenty others have complained about but is ignored by you mods.

I wouldn't be so triggered by trashy articles. I agree that the article is trash, but we are swimming in a sea of shit anyway
and may as well not stress ourselves into an early grave.

I would expect China to keep refining its jet engines but the article's claims that it is better than the Russian engine are simple
BS. It implicitly assumes that Russia is not refining its engines and somehow lacks the capability to do this. Yeah, right...

kvs wrote:I wouldn't be so triggered by trashy articles.   I agree that the article is trash, but we are swimming in a sea of shit anyway
and may as well not stress ourselves into an early grave.  

I would expect China to keep refining its jet engines but the article's claims that it is better than the Russian engine are simple
BS.  It implicitly assumes that Russia is not refining its engines and somehow lacks the capability to do this.   Yeah, right...

Well, technically it's a tad better than the early al-31f that China uses for their jets. So while China had developed a new engine that they can use and not rely on imports, that we all wish Russia to do in everything else, it still isn't much a huge achievement given that they created an engine with similar thrust and a tad higher run time before repair, to that of something 28 years old. And to be used on their "advanced stealth jet" which Russia uses on a non stealth jet, AL-41, which has higher thrust and service life.

The comments section alone is garbage. But there needs to be quality control here. Anyway, I know it isn't George's fault for the article. But it needs to be read and disregarded for non factual details like geography.

Perhaps simple article linking should not be allowed. Post a link and comment about it. Here the BS could have been highlighted.
Another way to look at it is that the "trolling" seeds useful discussion. So it is not all bad.

However, systematic trolling with bait trash should not be allowed. Note that I am not accusing George of doing this.

Chinese army never publish anything regarding the availability of their stuff. I've never seen any complaints about russian engines, they even bought su-35 to copy it.

Their copy is relatively new and even them don't know how good it is. Russians were aware they are buying the su-35 for its engines and who knows what changes they made in them to not let china have a decent copy.

What you can read on the web is mostly fanboys opinions.

Sukhois uses its family of engines for now 60 years which is a mature family and design. China just copied it without the same processes of manufacturing which can't lead to having the same engine. Most don't understand that they are using very advanced materials and engineering where everything is calculated. Have one mistake and it becomes shitty.

Global Times reports the same thing.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202112/1241309.shtml

The comments section alone is garbage.

On most news websites the comments section is full of rubbish, that is no reason to not post the article.

Even a article with a few factual errors is worth posting if it is relevant to the thread.

And no disrespecting mods... there are some rules that we can't afford to have any lee way on and that is one of them.

Well... that's big.

Isos wrote:Well... that's big.

Airlaunched version of the DF-21 Anti-ship ballistic missile. Impressive range of ~3000km.

I doubt the range is just that. Kinzhal has 3000km range. That missile is much larger than Kinzhal.