NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

Regarding Igla vs cruise missiles the critical thing would be warning... with enough warning they should be effective.

Note that they tested Igla against Malyutka (AT-3) ATGMs which are tiny missies and the results showed that of 9 attempts to engage 5 direct hits were achieved, which is impressive with such a small target. Of course that means that 4 out of 9 times the missile missed and because it does not have a proximity fuse then there was no interception.

To correct this problem they developed the Igla-S which adds a proximity fuse, which one would assume would mean 9 out of 9 interceptions for small targets at low altitude.

Verba presumably also has a proximity fuse so would also be very effective at shooting down small targets like cruise missiles with the appropriate warning... which would be provided by new radar and IADS.

Cucumber Khan wrote:

max steel wrote:2) If usa is deploying them in europe then why cant ruussia deploy it in cuba ? lacking balls perhaps .

Well, there is something called the "host country". Contrary to what some people think, Russia can't just place nuclear weapons in this country or a Tu-22M3 regiment in that country unilaterally. They need to get consent first. And that will not be easily had. Do Cuba even want to host nuclear weapons when they are working on developing better relations with the US? Not to mention Russias pretty strongly expressed demand that nuclear weapons should only be deployed in their own countries.

"Lack of balls" has little to do with it. Too much balls and you risk having them cut off and stuffed in your mouth...

Your exaggerating the reconciliation of US/Cuba relations, the US still refuses to return Guantanamo Bay back to Cuba (it turns out the US is o.k. with annexation of land, if they're doing the annexation ), in fact the whole reconciliation of relations smells incredibly fishy. Both the reconciliation and the first talks of US vacating the INF treaty happened within weeks of each other, no mere coincidence there, it's pretty obvious what the true goal is. I find it funny that you consider a 'carrot-on-a-stick' such as the U.S./Cuba reconciliation to be a huge deal, but not Russia possibly turning off the gas supplies to Europe if they harbor offensive nuclear weapons against them, or Russia declaring a 'debt payment moratorium' (maybe even supporting other European countries to follow) on European banks. Those are two options Russia could pull that would hold more gravitas than the 'carrot-on-a-stick' that the U.S. is offering to Cuba.

Russia doesn't actually have to place any missiles in Cuba, they could just as easily place strategic jamming/ECM complexes such as 'Murmansk-BN' which is ridiculously powerful with a 5000 km range (covering a radius of 10,000 km's), in fact so powerful that it can jam/spoof any system in any part of the continental U.S.

BTW Russia has options outside of Cuba, they have Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Ecuador, all countries with very hostile anti-American leadership/govts. So theoretically speaking Russia could place thermonuclear cruise missiles, IRBM's in Venezuela, Nicaragua, Ecuador, and Murmansk-BN's strategic ECM systems in Cuba, where the strategic ECM systems jam/spoof radars, SAM's, ABM's in U.S. territory (and in the Gulf of Mexico), while the cruise missiles and IRBM's are attacking from South America.

P.S. the quickest way for Russia to change it's attitudes and positions on nuclear weapons is for the U.S. to abruptly abandon a 'strategic' treaty, such as the ABM treaty for example.

btw do us posses murmansk alike EW/ECM system ? they can deploy it in latvia or estonia isnt it ?

Do americans work indigenously on their EW/ECM systems ? never heard much about yankees making revolution in EW field with new weapons jammers etc .

max steel wrote:btw do us posses murmansk alike EW/ECM system ? they can deploy it in latvia or estonia isnt it ?

Do americans work indigenously on their EW/ECM systems ? never heard much about yankees making revolution in EW field with new weapons jammers etc .

Murmansk-BN is a one of kind of system, and the field of ECM/ECCM is actually a field Russia leads the world in, which is no surprise considering that Russia had a several decades head-start in the field, over any other country for that matter. The earliest account of ECM tactics being employed in war was in 1904, Russo-Japanese war, the 'Defense of Port Arthur' where the Russians first demonstrated such ECM tactics:




...So basically the Russian military invented ECM warfare back in 1904.

and what about usa ew capabilities ? except neutron bomb do they have khilbiny murmansk etc etc like stuff ?

their naval hornets posses jamming pods . other than yanks i guess israeli are good in ew systems . s-300 primitive model jamming in syria was a great move .

max steel wrote:and what about usa ew capabilities ? except neutron bomb do they have khilbiny murmansk etc etc like stuff ?

their naval hornets posses jamming pods . other than yanks i guess israeli are good in ew systems . s-300 primitive model jamming in syria was a great move .

That never happened, and the S-300's were never delivered to Syria...in fact if you want to see how effective Israeli ECM systems are, then look no further than when Bibi Nitwit-yahoo took a emergency trip to Moscow to beg Putin not to sell S-300's to Syria, the same ones he claimed could be easily defeated by Israeli ECM, and let's not forget the NATO exercises with Slovakians and their antiquated S-300 PMU's, in which NATO forces struggled (even in ideal conditions) to jam and spoof a living fossil of a system (and export version in fact) from the 1980's.

The US MIC excels at 'power-projection' whether it be with tactical and strategic airlift, or with megacarriers, but has been falling behind the past few decades in fields such as SAM's, and ECM equipment. Almost all the US ECM equipment are fighter-plane based.

magnumcromagnon wrote: That never happened, and the S-300's were never delivered to Syria...in fact if you want to see how effective Israeli ECM systems are, then look no further than when Bibi Nitwit-yahoo took a emergency trip to Moscow to beg Putin not to sell S-300's to Syria, the same ones he claimed could be easily defeated by Israeli ECM, and let's not forget the NATO exercises with Slovakians and their antiquated S-300 PMU's, in which NATO forces struggled (even in ideal conditions) to jam and spoof a living fossil of a system (and export version in fact) from the 1980's.

The US MIC excels at 'power-projection' whether it be with tactical and strategic airlift, or with megacarriers, but has been falling behind the past few decades in fields such as SAM's, and ECM equipment. Almost all the US ECM equipment are fighter-plane based.

What ECM do you need when bombing civilian Bedouins? To jam their radios so no music is in Oasis?
BTW If S-300 is soo bad what was problems with Iran

US has deployed SM-3 Interceptors in Romania already . i saw the pictures you posted few days back . So what is Russia waiting for ? muricans crusaders are not interested in solving this issue amicably .

max steel wrote:US has deployed SM-3 Interceptors in Romania already . i saw the pictures you posted few days back . So what is Russia waiting for ? muricans crusaders are not interested in solving this issue amicably .

nope, Iskander-M new missile, OKA technology to create NEW tactical missile. So there are IMHO serious design work on SRBM or even IRBMs. Maybe really ¨short¨ Rubezh can be IRBM. Question how much cheaper it can be.

NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm

max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm

Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.

max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media

According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.

military planners doing their job while infosec people failing at theirs- news at 11.

10 t55 prob kill Lithuna

I GUESS NATO took it seriously



Russia's Deceptively Weak Military

Professional soldiers, equipped with the latest weaponry and body armor, quickly and efficiently seized Crimea. A rebellion, with “indigenous” rebels suddenly equipped with heavy weaponry and sufficient coordination, quickly metastasized into a full blown insurgency. New, modern and impressive equipment paraded before Moscow and the world in the largest Victory Day Parade since the fall of the Soviet Union.

The recent activities and public displays of modern equipment leave the impression that Russia has begun fielding a first rate military again, commensurate with its aspirations of being a global power. The role and visibility of the “little green men” in recent months leave an impression of a well-trained and coordinated Russian military, increasingly equipped with state of the art equipment. The takeover of the Crimea peninsula was supremely impressive. It was well executed with professional units. The Airborne (VDV), Naval Infantry and Spetsnaz that were responsible for seizing the initial key points around Crimea were impressive not only for their coordination but their professionalism in the face of journalistic interest. The seizure of Crime was shocking both for the audaciousness of the Kremlin, but also in terms of military capability. Few realized that Russia had the capability to conduct an operation like Crimea. And with increasing concern over the potential return of fighting in Eastern Ukraine, the fears over a resurgent Russian military continue to menace.


Beyond the public displays lays a more complicated view with more nuanced realities. While Russia has produced new technological toys (such as the Armata series tanks and armored vehicles), Moscow’s ability to pay and sustain modernization efforts leaves lingering doubts about a resurgent Russian military. Despite the almost ebullient hysteria surrounding Russia’s new equipment and capabilities, its military is still hampered by structural, economic and strategic constraints that not only limit its evolution and growth, but also threaten its current progress.

The “New Look” modernization effort Russia began in 2008 has created two militaries; an elite (or more professional) force capable of conducting rapid, complex operations with generally modern equipment; and the rest of the military, which still relies upon conscription, mass mobilization and mixed levels of modern equipment.

Even among the “little green men,” the outlook is far more mixed than the Crimea annexation would suggest. Most spetsnaz are actually conscripts on one year terms, although they do get the pick of the conscription call up. As Mark Galeotti notes, “the bulk of spetsnazovets may arguably best be compared with the French Foreign Legion, the British 16th Air Assault Brigade or the U.S. 75th Ranger Regiment, in that they are elite, mobile light infantry able to function in a range of operations and climates, and optimized for interventions, but not a 'Tier One' special operations force.” Moscow does retain around 500 tier one troops (equitable to Delta or Seal Team Six) in a separate force, which were utilized in seizing the Crimean parliament.

And while the more elite units of the military are starting to embrace small unit independence and rapid deployment, the conventional Russian military continues to be influenced by the old Soviet structure of numerous under-manned units, pre-positioned with equipment to be brought up to full staffing levels during times of conflict. The drawbacks of this design were laid bare during the 2008 war with Georgia, where airborne units (VDV) were able to deploy faster from interior Russia than those units stationed in the Caucasus. The 2008 modernization effort sought to replace this unwieldy division structure with smaller, more agile and autonomous Brigades. Although, the efforts to reduce the reliance upon mass mobilization and undermanned units continue, this trend has been somewhat reversed as some divisions have been brought back.

Remaining 2 pages you can read from the link




http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russias-deceptively-weak-military-13059

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm

Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.

You should not laugh.

If NATO/Lithuania really tried to take Kaliningrad I am about 50/50 for Russia not responding in any kind but just accepting defeat.

I will laugh like a madman and your claims are so ridiculous like US being protector of the world.

Lithunia couldn't do jack shit, they have no army. Lithunians themselfs are fools and live in a failed state with nazi parades believing in being western and russia is the enemy. Tell how could you defeat Kaliningrad with M113 tincans with people that have not clue how to even hold a gun?

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:
You should not laugh.

If NATO/Lithuania really tried to take Kaliningrad I am about 50/50 for Russia not responding in any kind but just accepting defeat.

I will laugh like a madman and your claims are so ridiculous like US being protector of the world.

Lithunia couldn't do jack shit, they have no army. Lithunians themselfs are fools and live in a failed state with nazi parades believing in being western and russia is the enemy. Tell how could you defeat Kaliningrad with M113 tincans with people that have not clue how to even hold a gun?

Of course Lithuania would not be able to take Kaliningrad by itself, but it can provide a base for NATO to lauch an attack against Kaliningrad.

I don't think NATO will be invade Kaliningrad.
They DO want war, but they DON'T wanna be the one who start it.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm

Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.

You should not laugh.

If NATO/Lithuania really tried to take Kaliningrad I am about 50/50 for Russia not responding in any kind but just accepting defeat.

I will laugh like a madman and your claims are so ridiculous like US being protector of the world.

Lithunia couldn't do jack shit, they have no army. Lithunians themselfs are fools and live in a failed state with nazi parades believing in being western and russia is the enemy. Tell how could you defeat Kaliningrad with M113 tincans with people that have not clue how to even hold a gun?

Of course Lithuania would not be able to take Kaliningrad by itself, but it can provide a base for NATO to lauch an attack against Kaliningrad.

and what do you think Russia's response will be to an attack on it's soil by Nato .... giant mushrooms all around ... do not poke the bear it has claws


visit Russia before Russia visits you ...

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

max steel wrote:   NATO is Ready to Snatch Kaliningrad From Russia – Lithuanian Media


According to hackers who got into the system of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, the small Baltic country is getting ready to annex Russia’s Kaliningrad region.
A group of hackers broke into the system of the main office of the Lithuanian Armed Forces late Wednesday and found out that the little Baltic nation has big plans — to snatch Russia's Kaliningrad region, Lithuanian news portal Delfi reported.



http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150611/1023226099.html#ixzz3d1gXZQxm

Lol, they wouldn't be able to defeat Swiss Guard protecting the Vatican and they have just a few off them. Try to annex it, they will be vaporized by the ground forces and will get nasty little rocket up their rear called Iskander.

You should not laugh.

If NATO/Lithuania really tried to take Kaliningrad I am about 50/50 for Russia not responding in any kind but just accepting defeat.

I will laugh like a madman and your claims are so ridiculous like US being protector of the world.

Lithunia couldn't do jack shit, they have no army. Lithunians themselfs are fools and live in a failed state with nazi parades believing in being western and russia is the enemy. Tell how could you defeat Kaliningrad with M113 tincans with people that have not clue how to even hold a gun?

Of course Lithuania would not be able to take Kaliningrad by itself, but it can provide a base for NATO to lauch an attack against Kaliningrad.

Gobshite!

Secretary Says Air Force Could Send F-22s to Europe to Counter Russia

Increasing tensions, heading to a dangerous path.

iraqidabab wrote:Secretary Says Air Force Could Send F-22s to Europe to Counter Russia

Increasing tensions, heading to a dangerous path.

I'm sure they'll be scaring Russia when they're couped up in their hangars for maintenance...just the thought of maintaining those hangar queens would scare anyone!

But in all seriousness, placing F-22's in Eastern Europe is sucking the air out the cockpit...err I mean room!

Kalin artillery better most EU army

good luck

max steel wrote:

I GUESS NATO took it seriously



 Russia's Deceptively Weak Military

Professional soldiers, equipped with the latest weaponry and body armor, quickly and efficiently seized Crimea. A rebellion, with “indigenous” rebels suddenly equipped with heavy weaponry and sufficient coordination, quickly metastasized into a full blown insurgency. New, modern and impressive equipment paraded before Moscow and the world in the largest Victory Day Parade since the fall of the Soviet Union.

The recent activities and public displays of modern equipment leave the impression that Russia has begun fielding a first rate military again, commensurate with its aspirations of being a global power. The role and visibility of the “little green men” in recent months leave an impression of a well-trained and coordinated Russian military, increasingly equipped with state of the art equipment. The takeover of the Crimea peninsula was supremely impressive. It was well executed with professional units. The Airborne (VDV), Naval Infantry and Spetsnaz that were responsible for seizing the initial key points around Crimea were impressive not only for their coordination but their professionalism in the face of journalistic interest. The seizure of Crime was shocking both for the audaciousness of the Kremlin, but also in terms of military capability. Few realized that Russia had the capability to conduct an operation like Crimea. And with increasing concern over the potential return of fighting in Eastern Ukraine, the fears over a resurgent Russian military continue to menace.


Beyond the public displays lays a more complicated view with more nuanced realities. While Russia has produced new technological toys (such as the Armata series tanks and armored vehicles), Moscow’s ability to pay and sustain modernization efforts leaves lingering doubts about a resurgent Russian military. Despite the almost ebullient hysteria surrounding Russia’s new equipment and capabilities, its military is still hampered by structural, economic and strategic constraints that not only limit its evolution and growth, but also threaten its current progress.

The “New Look” modernization effort Russia began in 2008 has created two militaries; an elite (or more professional) force capable of conducting rapid, complex operations with generally modern equipment; and the rest of the military, which still relies upon conscription, mass mobilization and mixed levels of modern equipment.

Even among the “little green men,” the outlook is far more mixed than the Crimea annexation would suggest. Most spetsnaz are actually conscripts on one year terms, although they do get the pick of the conscription call up. As Mark Galeotti notes, “the bulk of spetsnazovets may arguably best be compared with the French Foreign Legion, the British 16th Air Assault Brigade or the U.S. 75th Ranger Regiment, in that they are elite, mobile light infantry able to function in a range of operations and climates, and optimized for interventions, but not a 'Tier One' special operations force.” Moscow does retain around 500 tier one troops (equitable to Delta or Seal Team Six) in a separate force, which were utilized in seizing the Crimean parliament.

And while the more elite units of the military are starting to embrace small unit independence and rapid deployment, the conventional Russian military continues to be influenced by the old Soviet structure of numerous under-manned units, pre-positioned with equipment to be brought up to full staffing levels during times of conflict. The drawbacks of this design were laid bare during the 2008 war with Georgia, where airborne units (VDV) were able to deploy faster from interior Russia than those units stationed in the Caucasus. The 2008 modernization effort sought to replace this unwieldy division structure with smaller, more agile and autonomous Brigades. Although, the efforts to reduce the reliance upon mass mobilization and undermanned units continue, this trend has been somewhat reversed as some divisions have been brought back.

Remaining 2 pages you can read from the link




http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russias-deceptively-weak-military-13059

Surprisingly none of you paid attention to my second post .

General Yuriy Yakubov, Russian Ministry of Defence spokesman said :

The tactic of using the F-22 and other military equipment is the most aggressive step of [the] Pentagon and NATO since the Cold War last century,...

It is clearly an act of war. Russia must react, and quiclkly against this barbaric north american regime. It is not admissible, Russia never threatened anyone, the US seed the shit everywhere in the world, it is time stop these bastards once for all.


http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/06/17/416235/US-Air-Force-warplanes-Russia-border

The United States is planning to send warplanes to Europe in order to stop Russia’s “aggression” in the region, says US Air Force Secretary Deborah James.

Describing Moscow as “the biggest threat” in the region, James said it is “extremely worrisome on what's going” on in Ukraine.

"I could easily see the day -- though I couldn't tell you the day exactly -- when the F-22, for example, rotates in is a possibility. I don't see why that couldn't happen in the future," she was quoted as saying by Military.com.

Washington relations with Moscow are icy over the conflict in Ukraine. The Kremlin is accused of supporting pro-Russian forces in eastern Ukraine.

The New York Times reported last week the Pentagon is ready to station heavy military equipment in countries on Russia's border to face a possible “Russian aggression.”

Unnamed officials said the weaponry, which includes battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, was enough for as many as 5,000 American troops.
On Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin made an announcement following the Pentagon’s decisions for deploying more military equipment in Europe.

Putin announced that his country would add intercontinental ballistic missiles to its nuclear arsenal this year.

“More than 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles, able to overcome even the most technically advance anti-missile defense systems, will be added to the make-up of the nuclear arsenal this year,” Putin said.

“If someone threatens our territories, it means that we will have to aim our armed forces accordingly at the territories from where the threat is coming,” he added.

Meanwhile, US Secretary of State John Kerry condemned Putin’s announcement.

"It does concern me," Kerry said. "Nobody should hear that kind of announcement from a leader of a powerful country and not be concerned about what the implications are."

In an interview with Press TV over the weekend, American political commentator Stephen Lendman warned about Washington’s aggressive policies against Moscow, saying tensions with Russia may spark the flames of another world war.

“This is a willful provocation along with previous ones, along also with repeated belligerent military exercises, provocative events, provocative things going on to literally try to get Russia, to do something stupid to provoke a confrontation that America could blame on Russia,” Lendman said.

“The idea that America should continue theses provocations risk the possibility that we literally could have what I call the unthinkable another global war,” he added.

below the other links about shits like CNN, and IBT

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-air-force-considers-deployment-f-22-raptor-fighter-jet-eastern-europe-1506502
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/16/politics/air-force-f-22-europe/