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Comparison death penalty in USA and Iran
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
GarryB- Posts : 40557
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Lets hope Iran makes the right moral decision?
Is the last thing this reporter says.
We heard nothing about the evidence against this Iranian woman and everything about how she would be killed if found guilty and the fact that Iran executes more people than the US does.
How can we even know what this right moral decision is without all the facts, or is it clearly wrong of Iran to execute people?
The real issue is that the vast majority of people executed in Iran is because of moral based laws... adultery in the west is hardly even considered a crime anymore is just an example.
We have seen that in the US you can get away with prison time if you are rich and famous, and we also know from the statistics that many of those executed in the US are of below average intelligence, are often not white, and/or can't afford a good lawyer.
If you are not particularly smart, black, and have no money for a flash lawyer on a charge that gets you the chair there is a good chance you will fry even if the Jury is made up of non whites because it has been shown... again with statistics, that non whites are more likely to be given the death penalty.
And returning to the video at about 1 minute 50 seconds this reporter lists the people Iran has executed for political reasons. He claims the US does not execute people for political reasons. No, they just lock them up without trial or legal representation at Guantanimo or shuttle them around the world and call it rendition.
Is the last thing this reporter says.
We heard nothing about the evidence against this Iranian woman and everything about how she would be killed if found guilty and the fact that Iran executes more people than the US does.
How can we even know what this right moral decision is without all the facts, or is it clearly wrong of Iran to execute people?
The real issue is that the vast majority of people executed in Iran is because of moral based laws... adultery in the west is hardly even considered a crime anymore is just an example.
We have seen that in the US you can get away with prison time if you are rich and famous, and we also know from the statistics that many of those executed in the US are of below average intelligence, are often not white, and/or can't afford a good lawyer.
If you are not particularly smart, black, and have no money for a flash lawyer on a charge that gets you the chair there is a good chance you will fry even if the Jury is made up of non whites because it has been shown... again with statistics, that non whites are more likely to be given the death penalty.
And returning to the video at about 1 minute 50 seconds this reporter lists the people Iran has executed for political reasons. He claims the US does not execute people for political reasons. No, they just lock them up without trial or legal representation at Guantanimo or shuttle them around the world and call it rendition.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
@GarryB
No hard feelings sir
No hard feelings sir
Nowadays isn't Russia following the same trail as of USThe real issue is that the vast majority of people executed in Iran is because of moral based laws... adultery in the west is hardly even considered a crime anymore is just an example.
GarryB- Posts : 40557
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Personally I think morality should have nothing to do with laws.
Morality is a personal thing that should not be subject to law where it does not contravene the rights of others.
Morality is a personal thing that should not be subject to law where it does not contravene the rights of others.
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
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Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
Well if you want to be philosophical, all Laws comes from Morals. You cannot have Laws unless you have Morals. That's a big problem in a Country because you cannot guarantee that everyone has the same Morals and thus everyone would have the same Law. But, because we are a Democracy, and the Majority rules, the Morals of the Majority are therefor the Laws. Certainly, there are certain laws which are fundamental and based off of Human Nature, but the majority of laws are going to be based off of the subjective morals of the many.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
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@GarryB
Prostitution/adultery in no way comes near the morals of anyone. Forget about the religions & the divine teachings just have a consensus that who person in normal circumstances would like his/her mother/sister involved in such activities' I bet even through democracy you willnt be able to get majority votes encouraging adultery....Morality is a personal thing that should not be subject to law where it does not contravene the rights of others.
GarryB- Posts : 40557
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Well if you want to be philosophical, all Laws comes from Morals.
Not strictly true. Many come from tradition, and most actually come from experience.
There are some towns in England today where it is perfectly legal to kill a Scotsman if said Scotsman is within the boundaries of the town and is carrying a crossbow.
This is nothing to do with morals and everything to do with the history of what Scotsmen with Crossbows did within that city in the past.
That is also why many laws change over time, though those making laws often delve in areas that do not concern them.
Prostitution is an example.
If one person chooses to have sex for money and another person wants to pay for that service what business is it of the government? As long as taxes are paid on income derived it has no business. If some people are offended who cares? There is many a rich man who finds it has cost him half his worth to have sex with a woman when they separate who might think prostitution would have been much more pleasurable and cheaper.
I bet even through democracy you willnt be able to get majority votes encouraging adultery....
The point is that adultery is rather more natural than monogamy and needs no encouragement. It is not illegal in the west in general, while it might effect the terms of the divorce no one is going to jail for it.
But, because we are a Democracy, and the Majority rules, the Morals of the Majority are therefor the Laws. Certainly, there are certain laws which are fundamental and based off of Human Nature, but the majority of laws are going to be based off of the subjective morals of the many.
Except the purpose of democracy is to protect all members of society, not just the majority. In fact there are times when it seems that minorities have more control and protections than the majority. Certainly the rich seem to be outnumbered in most societies by a factor of 20 to 1 or more yet their voices seem to be heard loudest and most often.
(BTW I am glad we can have this open chat about it without getting angry or personal, if I do offend anyone I apologise, I am enjoying this chat
)
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
@GarryB
You have got some senses & I think you better utilize it do see what is good & what is evil & Prostitution is an example
Tell me how the pimp pays that service?? via his mother or sister tell me tell me I am waiting for your answer.
So in other way you are saying: something that west approves Russia will follow it.
Give me a break sir & tell me when did Russia readily accepted west & in this case blindedly
E
I ain't offended at all
OK so when in history inhumane laws like burying the newly born female children are common does this mean that you make a law out of this dumbstruck tradition..nono sure you won't!!Not strictly true. Many come from tradition, and most actually come from experience.
There are some towns in England today where it is perfectly legal to kill a Scotsman if said Scotsman is within the boundaries of the town and is carrying a crossbow.
This is nothing to do with morals and everything to do with the history of what Scotsmen with Crossbows did within that city in the past.
That is also why many laws change over time, though those making laws often delve in areas that do not concern them.
Prostitution is an example.
You have got some senses & I think you better utilize it do see what is good & what is evil & Prostitution is an example
If one person chooses to have sex for money and another person wants to pay for that service what business is it of the government? As long as taxes are paid on income derived it has no business. If some people are offended who cares? There is many a rich man who finds it has cost him half his worth to have sex with a woman when they separate who might think prostitution would have been much more pleasurable and cheaper.
Tell me how the pimp pays that service?? via his mother or sister tell me tell me I am waiting for your answer.
The point is that adultery is rather more natural than monogamy and needs no encouragement. It is not illegal in the west in general, while it might effect the terms of the divorce no one is going to jail for it.
So in other way you are saying: something that west approves Russia will follow it.
Give me a break sir & tell me when did Russia readily accepted west & in this case blindedly
E
your point ??xcept the purpose of democracy is to protect all members of society, not just the majority. In fact there are times when it seems that minorities have more control and protections than the majority. Certainly the rich seem to be outnumbered in most societies by a factor of 20 to 1 or more yet their voices seem to be heard loudest and most often.
I ain't offended at all
GarryB- Posts : 40557
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
OK so when in history inhumane laws like burying the newly born female children are common does this mean that you make a law out of this dumbstruck tradition..nono sure you won't!!
Humans are the most inhumaine creatures on the planet and will kill for fun or pleasure or for a hundred other reasons that have nothing to do with survival.
In most western countries it is illegal to marry more than one person at a time and for the most part that is because western cultures are based on largely christian religions that practise monogamy. Someone of a faith that allows multiple marriages might claim that violates their rights but the laws are not to enforce christian beliefs they are created for the purpose of regulating ownership and inheritance of property and material goods.
The laws we perceive today as inhumaine were created for a reason. It doesn't need to be a good reason. For instance Chinas one child policy was introduced to deal with explosive population expansion problems. The result is that with the Chinese culture placing less value on girls and technology allowing the gender of children to be determined before they are born can lead to abortions for the purpose of having a boy, who can help on the farm and will not require a dowry when marrying and will retain the family name when he marries so he and his wife can support his parents in their retirement (and they will help with babysitting).
From a western point of view there is no way we would let the government determine how many children we could have.
You have got some senses & I think you better utilize it do see what is good & what is evil & Prostitution is an example
Being an athiest the term good and evil mean different things. Evil is someone who molests other people that they can control... that can be children or it can be people with the intellectual capacity of a child, or it can be people that have power over others that abuse their position.
A man or a woman going to a prostitute to pay for activities that are legal is quite healthy in my opinion. As long as both are clear what is happening and neither is being forced to do something they don't want to do then I think legalised prostitution makes perfect sense. By making it legal it can be regulated. The working people can get regular check ups to help control the spread of STDs and organised crime don't run it.
[qutoe]Tell me how the pimp pays that service?? via his mother or sister tell me tell me I am waiting for your answer. [/quote]
Who said pimps will get involved? Here in New Zealand it is perfectly legal to set up a brothel in your own home. Advertise in the paper. No pimps required, though they often have a Madam that keeps the books and helps girls with problem customers, but there is no need for heavies or enforcers. Someone becomes a problem they simply call the police.
So in other way you are saying: something that west approves Russia will follow it.
Give me a break sir & tell me when did Russia readily accepted west & in this case blindedly
E
I said nothing about Russia. I am commenting on the part of the west I know best... New Zealand. I have never heard of anyone in New Zealand being arrested for adultery even though it is clearly a breach of contract, but then a vow of love forever seems like an unnatural thing to promise to anyway.
your point ??
My point is that despite the fact that you suggest democracy means will of the majority, in actual practise there are checks and balances in place to prevent the majority putting in laws that benefit the majority over the minority. In fact I would suggest that it has built into it an obvious mechanism that ensures the minority get their way most of the time. That minority is the rich land owners. I remember a decade or so ago the finances of one of the richest men in Australia was released to the public and it seems that this chap and his company... thanks to lawyers and accountants and buying failing companies etc his company paid $5 tax for the year and he personally paid nothing because it was able to claim all the rest back for various reasons. His name is Alan Bond... no relation of James.
He exploited loopholes in the Tax laws to avoid paying his fair share of tax.
Even the guy that sweeps the streets pay more tax than he or his company did that year.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
Points : 634
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
@GarryB
You make things much difficult than they really are; simply because I think you are rather misinformed.
Look at these & then start replying
Marriage & pleasure mind you are two different things. Marriage is about caring for one another & pleasure (prostitution) undermines this very norm of mutual respect.
I beforehand said take the religion out; just use your common sense. I believe after seeing realities for yourself you will reclassify Prostitution/adultery in a different category
I believe you better research how these madams get girls involved in such a profession. Calling police hehe dancing with the devil & claiming innocence
Corruption!!
Just assume if that billionaire person pays some charity to the poor Africans they might not get AIDS via activities, they are forced to get indulged to compensate for their stomach appetites
You make things much difficult than they really are; simply because I think you are rather misinformed.
Look at these & then start replying
Humans are the most inhumaine creatures on the planet and will kill for fun or pleasure or for a hundred other reasons that have nothing to do with survival.
In most western countries it is illegal to marry more than one person at a time and for the most part that is because western cultures are based on largely christian religions that practise monogamy. Someone of a faith that allows multiple marriages might claim that violates their rights but the laws are not to enforce christian beliefs they are created for the purpose of regulating ownership and inheritance of property and material goods.
The laws we perceive today as inhumaine were created for a reason. It doesn't need to be a good reason. For instance Chinas one child policy was introduced to deal with explosive population expansion problems. The result is that with the Chinese culture placing less value on girls and technology allowing the gender of children to be determined before they are born can lead to abortions for the purpose of having a boy, who can help on the farm and will not require a dowry when marrying and will retain the family name when he marries so he and his wife can support his parents in their retirement (and they will help with babysitting).
From a western point of view there is no way we would let the government determine how many children we could have.
Marriage & pleasure mind you are two different things. Marriage is about caring for one another & pleasure (prostitution) undermines this very norm of mutual respect.
I prefer you watch documentaries; first is from Russia.Evil is someone who molests other people that they can control.
I beforehand said take the religion out; just use your common sense. I believe after seeing realities for yourself you will reclassify Prostitution/adultery in a different category
Who said pimps will get involved? Here in New Zealand it is perfectly legal to set up a brothel in your own home. Advertise in the paper. No pimps required, though they often have a Madam that keeps the books and helps girls with problem customers, but there is no need for heavies or enforcers. Someone becomes a problem they simply call the police.
I believe you better research how these madams get girls involved in such a profession. Calling police hehe dancing with the devil & claiming innocence
I remember a decade or so ago the finances of one of the richest men in Australia was released to the public and it seems that this chap and his company... thanks to lawyers and accountants and buying failing companies etc his company paid $5 tax for the year and he personally paid nothing because it was able to claim all the rest back for various reasons. His name is Alan Bond... no relation of James.
He exploited loopholes in the Tax laws to avoid paying his fair share of tax.
Even the guy that sweeps the streets pay more tax than he or his company did that year.
Corruption!!
Just assume if that billionaire person pays some charity to the poor Africans they might not get AIDS via activities, they are forced to get indulged to compensate for their stomach appetites
GarryB- Posts : 40557
Points : 41059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Those vids didn't work for me.
Just opened a video page but when I tried to play the vids it tried to sell me call time on my cellphone.
Yeah, that is what all my married friends tell me...
Except they say they are VERY different.
Marriage is a commitment to one person. The divorce rate in most western countries suggests humans are not very good at making and keeping commitments.
Vids are not working for me.
As far as I am concerned if a woman or a man chooses to sell sexual favours then it is not up to the government to decide whether they can or not.
As I have said. Prostitution is not illegal in New Zealand so it can be regulated. If someone is being forced by someone else to be a prostitute then they can approach the police and get them to handle it. Madams get girls by placing adverts in the newspapers. Any prostitute found to be underage or forced to be a prostitute will have the Madam in trouble and the may lose their business licence.
It is fully regulated and just not worth the hassle for the Madam. Many women don't even have a madam and simply operate from their own homes.
I am sure that when there is a law against prostitution that the Madams don't follow any moral or legal code except their own which will lead to slavery and problems of that nature.
Not just billionaires... when the local wage is less than a dollar a day then even an average slob from Europe is rich in places like Thailand and Laos.
A large fraction of the white male tourists in Thailand are not there for the weather. They are there for the prostitutes because in their home countries they can't get what they want they go to a relatively poor where the police are more corrupt and they get access to the sort of services that should never be legal. Things like little boys and girls as prostitutes is not morally acceptable and shouldn't be anywhere... but it happens. Laws don't stop crime.
Just opened a video page but when I tried to play the vids it tried to sell me call time on my cellphone.
Marriage & pleasure mind you are two different things.
Yeah, that is what all my married friends tell me...
Except they say they are VERY different.
Marriage is about caring for one another & pleasure (prostitution) undermines this very norm of mutual respect.
Marriage is a commitment to one person. The divorce rate in most western countries suggests humans are not very good at making and keeping commitments.
I beforehand said take the religion out; just use your common sense. I believe after seeing realities for yourself you will reclassify Prostitution/adultery in a different category
Vids are not working for me.
As far as I am concerned if a woman or a man chooses to sell sexual favours then it is not up to the government to decide whether they can or not.
I believe you better research how these madams get girls involved in such a profession. Calling police hehe dancing with the devil & claiming innocence.
As I have said. Prostitution is not illegal in New Zealand so it can be regulated. If someone is being forced by someone else to be a prostitute then they can approach the police and get them to handle it. Madams get girls by placing adverts in the newspapers. Any prostitute found to be underage or forced to be a prostitute will have the Madam in trouble and the may lose their business licence.
It is fully regulated and just not worth the hassle for the Madam. Many women don't even have a madam and simply operate from their own homes.
I believe you better research how these madams get girls involved in such a profession. Calling police hehe dancing with the devil & claiming innocence
I am sure that when there is a law against prostitution that the Madams don't follow any moral or legal code except their own which will lead to slavery and problems of that nature.
Corruption!!
Just assume if that billionaire person pays some charity to the poor Africans they might not get AIDS via activities, they are forced to get indulged to compensate for their stomach appetites
Not just billionaires... when the local wage is less than a dollar a day then even an average slob from Europe is rich in places like Thailand and Laos.
A large fraction of the white male tourists in Thailand are not there for the weather. They are there for the prostitutes because in their home countries they can't get what they want they go to a relatively poor where the police are more corrupt and they get access to the sort of services that should never be legal. Things like little boys and girls as prostitutes is not morally acceptable and shouldn't be anywhere... but it happens. Laws don't stop crime.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
Will answer afterwards you witness REALITIES
see the image below
click on URL namely 4shared not on play download thing!!
see the image below
click on URL namely 4shared not on play download thing!!
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
A death sentence in America is hardly a death sentence. They sit on death row for 25 years or until they die of natural causes. It is administered sparingly, except in Texas. Iran will sentence you to death for many mundane things, and their death penalty is quite painful.
GarryB- Posts : 40557
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Prostitutes in NZ are not sex slaves.
The vast majority work out of their own homes.
Slavery and prostitution are not the same thing.
The vast majority work out of their own homes.
Slavery and prostitution are not the same thing.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
Points : 634
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
I am back!!I hope you have seen the documentaries.Dont let urself concerned only with NZ talk about Russia US INdia & what not...Prostitution is a form of slavery mind if I giv you some latest linkshttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-1146851614 October 2010 Last updated at 08:53 GMT HelpGarryB wrote:Prostitutes in NZ are not sex slaves.
The vast majority work out of their own homes.
Slavery and prostitution are not the same thing.
see the related video too
BBC Three's Stacey Dooley visits a karaoke bar in Cambodia, where girls as young as 16 are paid to sit and talk with men. The UN estimates between 15,000 and 20,000 people are affected by commercial sexual exploitation in the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh, of whom 25% are children.
GarryB- Posts : 40557
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Is that a problem with prostitution or is it a problem of poverty?
I would say the latter.
Prostitution only becomes a problem when it is made illegal... it is like drinking alcohol... ban it and someone will still want it... and people who already break the law will provide the people what they want.
When criminals and organised crime run prostitution then of course there will be problems with underage sex workers and sex slavery.
When you legalise prostitution then you can control it.
I am not suggesting legalisation is always a good thing... people need sex, but they learn to need alcohol and drugs so I would have no problem banning drugs and alcohol and even smoking.
I would say the latter.
Prostitution only becomes a problem when it is made illegal... it is like drinking alcohol... ban it and someone will still want it... and people who already break the law will provide the people what they want.
When criminals and organised crime run prostitution then of course there will be problems with underage sex workers and sex slavery.
When you legalise prostitution then you can control it.
I am not suggesting legalisation is always a good thing... people need sex, but they learn to need alcohol and drugs so I would have no problem banning drugs and alcohol and even smoking.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
@GarryB
Sorry for late reply; I was busy....
Prostitution only becomes a problem when it is made illegal.
This crap wasn't expected from you!! Prostitution & so is the drugs/human smuggling is a problem thats why they are illegal
So by your logic Oil is to be blamed & not the American forceful incursion to take it; likewise by your logic poor Palestinians are to be blamed & not the Israeil which exploit their weakness to their advantage.Is that a problem with prostitution or is it a problem of poverty?
Look poverty is a weakness & a noble person religious or not mustnt exploit it. If i am poor girl & approach you for giving me some alms so that I be able to get mom some food but in return you want me to sleep with you will that be a problem with poverty or you??
Though the above scenario totally fits the definition of Prostitution that though you aren't forcing me to do sex but you know well that I have no alternative.
So yes poverty is a problem rather root of many problems & prostitution is one of them.
GarryB your agreeing with me willnt diminish your reputation but you are trying to prove something that is totally wrong.
If you dont mind; I giv the ultimate ultimatum to whoever be the supporter of adultery or prostitution (like I see you):
Do you accept your sister/mother to be indulged in such a profession unless ofcoarse you are a psycho or a pornstar urself
GarryB- Posts : 40557
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
This crap wasn't expected from you!! Prostitution & so is the drugs/human smuggling is a problem thats why they are illegal
Why is prostitution illegal in your country?
More to the point is using the services of a prostitute illegal too?
If a woman chooses to have sex with any man for free is that legal?
If the sex is free but the man decides that he should help the woman financially because she has given him what he wants is that prostitution?
What about a woman who demands a man pays for her meal and then takes her dancing and then for more drinks in return for sex... is the man that just spent $200 getting sex for money?
What happens when he spends $200 and she says no to sex?
As far as I am concerned if they are both consenting adults and he wants to skip the meal and dancing and just hand her the cash and she wants to have sex with him then I have no problem with that.
If she chooses to live in a brothel and offer her services to any man that can pay for it then what business is it of mine.
Would I like my mother to do it, or my sister? No. I don't think I would be proud of that, but I would have no more right to tell them not to than they would to tell me what I could or could not do.
Just because something is illegal does not mean it should remain so.
If you think drugs and prostitution should be made ilegal then you will agree that cigarettes and smoking should be illegal too now that the consequences of such things are well known. Equally alcohol should also be banned because of the damage to society.
Of course the thing is that when you ban stuff that people think they want or need they will find other ways to get it. And if they are going to break the law to get sex... well why care about laws restricting age... kids would be easier to control and use force against.
Just like banning firearms creates a market... a black market, where not just semi auto weapons are on offer but anything you want.
It makes sense to simply legalise and control.
I personally think alcohol should be banned because of the death and hardship it creates but I know that if people start making it themselves and hiding it from the law then criminal gangs will just make money out of it.
Look poverty is a weakness & a noble person religious or not mustnt exploit it. If i am poor girl & approach you for giving me some alms so that I be able to get mom some food but in return you want me to sleep with you will that be a problem with poverty or you??
Poverty is something I have never had to experience. Where I grew up poor didn't mean you lived in the street, it meant your family only had one TV.
If an adult woman decides she wants to earn some money by offering sex or sex related favours then it is no business of the government.
There will be plenty of people pointing the finger and yelling "whore"... and most of the men who do that will turn up on her door step at 11pm wanting to know how much she charges.
Regarding your question if the girl is attractive and I made that proposition (which I don't think I would BTW) she has every right to take that as a no to charity and move on to the next person.
She might offer other services, like clean my car, or polish my shoes instead of asking for a straight handout of course.
Any decision about whether we have sex or not would pretty much be hers and hers alone. Otherwise it is not prostitution.
Though the above scenario totally fits the definition of Prostitution that though you aren't forcing me to do sex but you know well that I have no alternative.
Where in that story is there no alternative? Little girls all over the planet probably get rude propositions all the time there are always alternatives.
I saw a documentary on Afghanistan the other day where a family of 8 girls had to go out begging because their father was unable to work because he was an addict. They had lots of places they went and sex was not mentioned once. Some places they went they got handouts and other places they were too late. Often they would go home with nothing. When they did go home with something it went up their fathers nose anyway, so they tended to try to get food rather than money.
So yes poverty is a problem rather root of many problems & prostitution is one of them.
You say that but you clearly must be wrong, because as I have said... there is little poverty here... little real poverty that is, where people are actually starving to death.
Yet there is prostitution.
And it is only seen as a problem by the very religious, but then they see most things as a sin... so it is hard to take them seriously.
I giv the ultimate ultimatum to whoever be the supporter of adultery or prostitution (like I see you):
I never said I supported adultery. I just said it is not treated as a crime in the west. People don't go to jail for adultery in the west.
In the case of prostitution then as long as it meets the legal requirements (ie consenting adults of legal age etc), I see it as a question of morals. I haven't engaged the services of a prostitute myself, but I refuse to morally judge anyone who chooses to engage in such activity... either the paying for sex or the performing sex with strangers for money.
Ask any man getting a divorce and ask him how much sex cost him and he will think prostitution was a much better alternative.
Do you accept your sister/mother to be indulged in such a profession unless ofcoarse you are a psycho or a pornstar urself
If they chose such a thing... how exactly would you propose I stop them? A strongly worded letter? They are all adults and entitled to make their own decisions... and to live with the consequences.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
Points : 634
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
First of all I would like you to backup your claims with adequate references!!
I would like you to giv me some proof or statistical figures of the % of people willingly indulged in prostitution. Remember I have given you much of the proof that even blind cant argue with ~~
Regarding example of Pakistan & Afghanistan they dont fall in the category of very very liberal people. Your proof of Afghanistan is fully inappropriate as people (Muslims) there are engulfed by religious boundaries & they would likely to be murdered than being selled for flesh desires. Though am not saying that we are some ANGELIC nations
Seemingly enough you again & again derail from the harsh realities & happen to argue that West/NewZealand had no poverty yet they have brothels?? Do giv me proof that people illegaly aren't smuggled in the respective countries for the sake of flesh pleasures. For the greatest economy i.e USA happens to be the major importer of females from its latin states that of coarse dont enjoy the gold riches. Again I giv you proof of a true story based film
Taken http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0936501/
There happens to be statistical figures at the end of this film
You must rather see it before correlating sex with economy as i feel you aren't properly equipped to understand the weeping realities.
Now I got you boy
The bold part is a very lame thinking. Very religious haha you happen to signify from this that apart from very religious all others dont bother about prostitution.Ok then I will say that let a video leakout of the Newzealand president having sex at brothels & then you tell me the same person be elected president the next time. I keep it generalI
i.e this law applies to any president of any country & I will know how much of the population discourage or encourage prostitution
Mind if you research out the number of rapes per second in US or again I will giv you some reference & again if you enlighten me by giving some info about the girls entertaining boys during adultery they enjoying or not
I ain't saying you go for an honour killing but if you had brought them well they willnt go for such a thing but what if they do....
How do you stop them; ummmmmmmmmmm... you dont stop them let them be & assuming that in adultery only the willing people are involved I must say the the porn & adult industry will drop to its knees because psycho people only but make a fraction of the total population.
In the end Garry you dont have to utilise your gifted logics to counter my logics because they aren't logics I simply copy/pasted the facts of the world around me.
Before you stretch this conversation further with your logics & opening up new points you must answer the following summarized points:
I would like you to giv me some proof or statistical figures of the % of people willingly indulged in prostitution. Remember I have given you much of the proof that even blind cant argue with ~~
Regarding example of Pakistan & Afghanistan they dont fall in the category of very very liberal people. Your proof of Afghanistan is fully inappropriate as people (Muslims) there are engulfed by religious boundaries & they would likely to be murdered than being selled for flesh desires. Though am not saying that we are some ANGELIC nations
Seemingly enough you again & again derail from the harsh realities & happen to argue that West/NewZealand had no poverty yet they have brothels?? Do giv me proof that people illegaly aren't smuggled in the respective countries for the sake of flesh pleasures. For the greatest economy i.e USA happens to be the major importer of females from its latin states that of coarse dont enjoy the gold riches. Again I giv you proof of a true story based film
Taken http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0936501/
There happens to be statistical figures at the end of this film
You must rather see it before correlating sex with economy as i feel you aren't properly equipped to understand the weeping realities.
I never said I supported adultery. I just said it is not treated as a crime in the west.
Now I got you boy
Again giv me some proof that that how many girls love to be in brothels atleast the girls of the emerging economy i.e India dont really like at brothels refer to my previous documentary.You say that but you clearly must be wrong, because as I have said... there is little poverty here... little real poverty that is, where people are actually starving to death.
Yet there is prostitution.
And it is only seen as a problem by the very religious, but then they see most things as a sin... so it is hard to take them seriously.
The bold part is a very lame thinking. Very religious haha you happen to signify from this that apart from very religious all others dont bother about prostitution.Ok then I will say that let a video leakout of the Newzealand president having sex at brothels & then you tell me the same person be elected president the next time. I keep it generalI
i.e this law applies to any president of any country & I will know how much of the population discourage or encourage prostitution
& from this again I feel you are in luv with the west??People don't go to jail for adultery in the west.
Mind if you research out the number of rapes per second in US or again I will giv you some reference & again if you enlighten me by giving some info about the girls entertaining boys during adultery they enjoying or not
Too much freedom equals anarchy.If they chose such a thing... how exactly would you propose I stop them? A strongly worded letter? They are all adults and entitled to make their own decisions... and to live with the consequences.
I ain't saying you go for an honour killing but if you had brought them well they willnt go for such a thing but what if they do....
How do you stop them; ummmmmmmmmmm... you dont stop them let them be & assuming that in adultery only the willing people are involved I must say the the porn & adult industry will drop to its knees because psycho people only but make a fraction of the total population.
In the end Garry you dont have to utilise your gifted logics to counter my logics because they aren't logics I simply copy/pasted the facts of the world around me.
Before you stretch this conversation further with your logics & opening up new points you must answer the following summarized points:
- % of people willingly indulged in providing fleshly desires?
- Are rich people exploiting poor people as sex slaves?
- If adultery is legalised & controlled why in US an economy giant people go for a rape?(DO SOME RESEARCH ON RAPE FIGURES)
- Do you prefer an alternative profession (other than adultery) for your children?
- If there occurs no alternative (today's massive unemployment) & state can't provide adequate food(Zimbabwe, Nepal & Pakistan....) for the people; can it giv rise to adultery by providing a chance for the rich to exploit the moment(human smuggling...)??
- Is prostitution favoured by majority of people of any state? (remember the President scandal example)
GarryB- Posts : 40557
Points : 41059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
First of all I would like you to backup your claims with adequate references!!
Unfortunately it is mostly opinion and common sense.
I would like you to giv me some proof or statistical figures of the % of people willingly indulged in prostitution.
It is a very publicity shy industry and only appears in public when someone wants to change the legal status of their house to allow it to be used as a Brothel (ie place of business) and it is near a school or day care centre. Usually there is a few complaints from various religious groups initially that it will pollute the minds of the children... and then it all blows over because most brothels have their curtains closed and don't have people on the roof dressed as half naked pirates having sex on all day and all night.
Your proof of Afghanistan is fully inappropriate as people (Muslims) there are engulfed by religious boundaries & they would likely to be murdered than being selled for flesh desires. Though am not saying that we are some ANGELIC nations
And I am not saying that legalised prostitution is for everyone. Different cultures have different ways of dealing with different things.
As far as I am concerned however selling sexual services should not be a legal issue, it is a moral issue for those concerned.
Should Jews be made to eat pork? Should the catholic priests that molest altar boys be made to get married or get legitimate adult sexual outlets for their feelings?
Should an athiest be forced to conform to religious rules of conduct?
Well with thou shalt not kill I agree, because societies structure would not hold together if anyone could kill anyone else for any reason, however there are times when societies needs are met by the killing of people. War is one example. Self defence is another.
But some rules are more personal... moral questions relating to that religion. Should Christians be forced to face Mecca when they pray? These rules should only apply to those that believe such things are important.
Jews don't burn down pig farms to prevent the production of pork.
What happened to tolerance of the beliefs of others?
Do giv me proof that people illegaly aren't smuggled in the respective countries for the sake of flesh pleasures.
I am sure there are a few, but why bother?
There are plenty of women wanting to earn money already here.
The police check legal brothels for under age workers, but no system is perfect.
For the greatest economy i.e USA happens to be the major importer of females from its latin states that of coarse dont enjoy the gold riches.
Is prostitution legal in the US?
I don't think it is.
From Wiki:
Nevada is the only U.S. state to allow some legal prostitution,[1] in the form of heavily regulated brothels. Prostitution outside these licensed brothels is illegal throughout the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada
So the majority of those kidnapped persons being imported into the US are being done so by organised crime I would think to supply an illegal market. As such I am sure there will be problems of underage workers and sex slaves... they are already breaking the law by using prostitutes they might as well give the customer exactly what they want... even if it would be illegal if properly regulated.
Now I got you boy
I have a sister in law and a brother in law that were both guilty of adultery. Neither were arrested. Neither spent any time in jail or even a fine. Both divorced my relatives respectively and both got half of the shared assets. They were not penalised in any way for being adulterers.
Again giv me some proof that that how many girls love to be in brothels atleast the girls of the emerging economy i.e India dont really like at brothels refer to my previous documentary.
I have done a lot of jobs I didn't like very much. I chose to do them for the money that I earned from doing them.
The bold part is a very lame thinking. Very religious haha you happen to signify from this that apart from very religious all others dont bother about prostitution.
I made that statement because when the news item pops up on TV about a person applying for the licence to operate a brothel in a private residence that is 10 houses away from a day care centre or a school it is always the local priest that is interviewed and he is always worried about the effect it will have on the children.
Then a few agitated parents are interviewed and they too share the same fears that perhaps the children might somehow be corrupted seeing men going into the address and leaving an hour later.
Ok then I will say that let a video leakout of the Newzealand president having sex at brothels & then you tell me the same person be elected president the next time. I keep it generalI
i.e this law applies to any president of any country & I will know how much of the population discourage or encourage prostitution.
First of all if the Prime Minister of New Zealand was single I rather think the opposition party will make a big deal out of it, but that most of the public wouldn't care much... a bit like the monica lewinsky affair for Clinton. If the PM doesn't try to hide the facts then he has broken no law.
If New Zealanders had such moral objections to brothels they wouldn't be legal would they?
I am sure MP Georgina Beyer might have struggled to get elected in many countries in the middle east too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgina_Beyer
& from this again I feel you are in luv with the west??
The west is not perfect, but I am rather happy with my part of the west. Note the west includes Holland, Amsterdam which legalises so called lesser drugs, and in most of the west prostitution is not legal.
There are some things that are banned in the Middle East I agree with like the banning of alcohol, but I know it would never work in practise here. It is legal to brew your own alcohol here and you can buy brewing kits from the supermarket to make anything from beer to various spirits.
Mind if you research out the number of rapes per second in US or again I will giv you some reference & again if you enlighten me by giving some info about the girls entertaining boys during adultery they enjoying or not
In many cases rape has nothing at all to do with sex and everything to do with domination. Conjugal visits in prisons might relieve tensions and reduce rape rates but it would not stop rapes entirely.
Too much freedom equals anarchy.
No. Ignoring or having no rules is anarchy.
How do you stop them; ummmmmmmmmmm... you dont stop them let them be & assuming that in adultery only the willing people are involved I must say the the porn & adult industry will drop to its knees because psycho people only but make a fraction of the total population.
Really. Then can you explain why 70% of the internet is porn?
Why the porn industry in the US makes 20 times what Hollywood makes in profits every year?
If nobody was interested in sex why do you think the Earths population is increasing at the rate it has?
following summarized points:
1. % of people willingly indulged in providing fleshly desires?
I would counter that by asking how many people do not have sex at all during their entire lives. I would suggest that this is a very small portion of the worlds population.
2. Are rich people exploiting poor people as sex slaves?
Yes, some are. But it is easier to create sex slaves when prostitution is illegal and unregulated.
A high class hooker sorry... escort can earn more in a weekend than some women earn in their lifetimes. Who is exploiting whom?
3. If adultery is legalised & controlled why in US an economy giant people go for a rape?(DO SOME RESEARCH ON RAPE FIGURES)
Do some research of your own, first of all rape has little to do with sex. Second Nevada is the only state in the US that legalises prostitution.
4. Do you prefer an alternative profession (other than adultery) for your children?
I wouldn't want my children to get involved with prostitution.
If that was their choice (to pay their way through university) then that is their decision.
5. If there occurs no alternative (today's massive unemployment) & state can't provide adequate food(Zimbabwe, Nepal & Pakistan....) for the people; can it giv rise to adultery by providing a chance for the rich to exploit the moment(human smuggling...)??
Adultery and prostitution is not the same thing. Sexual favours is a commodity that can be bought and sold on a free market. If it happens to be illegal that wont stop the trade, any more than making murder illegal will stop murder from occurring.
Certainly for some women that is all they have to trade of value sometimes. It is still up to them whether they choose to make such an offer or move on to someone else to ask for food/work/money.
If sex is forced on them that is not prostitution... it is rape.
6. Is prostitution favoured by majority of people of any state? (remember the President scandal example)
It became legal here for a reason. Our legal system is largely based on that of the UK where prostitution is legal but operating a brothel is illegal.
It is legal here to operate a brothel so someone at some time must have changed that law and it hasn't been changed back.
I think most kiwis see prostitution as the business of those involved. As long as it is discrete and is between consenting adults then why should it be a crime?
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
Morals and values should not be absolute in a state as laws are based upon morals and if we choose a sole source for our morals and thus our laws than we'd become an oppressive, totalitarian, theocratic state, no better than Iran or North Korea. Of course, we can't have too much freedoms too, as we'd also have Anarchy, where human nature will take hold, and being a Hobbesian myself, people can only hate each other.
As for prostitution, I always supported legalization of it. If my daughter wishes (and yes, people do whore) to become "an adultrious slut" than I'd let her be. Becoming a prostitute is compariable to serving ones country, my body for the state. Those who chooses not to, have the right not to. Those who are raped, abducted, enslaved deserve justice, and that's what Americans aims to do.
You see, if us Americans had to have one idea shoved down our throats, it'd be love. We could care less what you do, as long as it doesn't harm me or others. Now, that idea has been twisted around and misconstrued by the few (ex. George W. Bush), but that does not mean all Americans wish to barge into your village, kill a few people, and go home.
Anyways, on topic, "cruel and unusual punishments" is totally sibjective, and what was usual/unusual is not the sane as it were the day our Constitution wad written. You can argue that Iranian beheading/stoning is usual or unusual, or that lethal injection is usual or unusual, but I always opted for Life in Prison as you live your days in our manifestation of he'll and die anyways.
As for prostitution, I always supported legalization of it. If my daughter wishes (and yes, people do whore) to become "an adultrious slut" than I'd let her be. Becoming a prostitute is compariable to serving ones country, my body for the state. Those who chooses not to, have the right not to. Those who are raped, abducted, enslaved deserve justice, and that's what Americans aims to do.
You see, if us Americans had to have one idea shoved down our throats, it'd be love. We could care less what you do, as long as it doesn't harm me or others. Now, that idea has been twisted around and misconstrued by the few (ex. George W. Bush), but that does not mean all Americans wish to barge into your village, kill a few people, and go home.
Anyways, on topic, "cruel and unusual punishments" is totally sibjective, and what was usual/unusual is not the sane as it were the day our Constitution wad written. You can argue that Iranian beheading/stoning is usual or unusual, or that lethal injection is usual or unusual, but I always opted for Life in Prison as you live your days in our manifestation of he'll and die anyways.
GarryB- Posts : 40557
Points : 41059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
I saw a part of a documentary last night and it was about an American Army surgeon who was presented with a patient he was told was a terrorist.
This guy had been hung up by his arms for so long the blood supply had been stopped for too long and he had contracted gangrene in both arms. The only option for the surgeon was to remove both arms.
Thing is though it turns out this guy wasn't a terrorist, he was a young farmer that refused to pay off the local warlord and so he ends up with his arms removed.
Now here in New Zealand there are things that could be done, artificial limbs with motorised hands that might allow him to live an almost normal life, though it would not be cheap.
In Afghanistan I suspect his future is dependence on his family and a general burden to society.
The Army surgeon was discharged from army service because that day he became a pacifist but this really has nothing to do with the current war. These so called war lords are simply what we in the west would call mafia bosses, or the heads of organised crime syndicates. They are everywhere and operate whether there is a war on or not.
I would suggest that anything you make illegal you will find these people taking their cut, whether it is alcohol or drugs or prostitution, firearms, whatever.
Prostitution is said to be the oldest profession... people have sold their bodies for all sorts of things and still do today everywhere. Do you think it is a coincidence that so many of the top business men have really hot secretaries?
It is human nature... and you can fight it, or you can accept it is going to happen anyway and regulate it. The amusing thing is that if you fight it everyone will keep their mouths shut. If you legalise it and the competition start bringing in underage workers that work for almost nothing then you start getting complaints from the workers losing business.
Freedom with responsibility.
Nobody wants the freedom to drink and drive because that clearly leads to death and destruction.
The freedom to go out and pay for sex when you want it does not cause death and destruction.
If you just want sex is it really fair to wine and dine a woman just to have sex with her and never phone her again?
How many women want a one night stand?
How many men want a one night stand?
The obvious difference in numbers creates a problem and leads to those men lying about their intentions till they get what they want and lots of women feeling cheap and used.
If you are not in a relationship then probably paying less than an average night out for two for sex with someone you never have to see again seems to be a good idea for some.
You can certainly argue that one punishment cruel or not cruel, but I think the real issue is the balance and weightings of punishment.
I think it is ironic but as a general trend women get away with more in the west than in the other areas of the world. Two people rob a bank, and 2-3 people get killed... if the two robbers are men then both will likely get life or the death penalty depending upon where it takes place and the circumstances. If one is a woman you can almost guarantee the woman will get a lighter sentence. It is as if women are less responsible, or easily controlled by men so it is less their fault.
In family court children will always go to the mother unless there is reasons not to (ie like their mother beat them or something).
In a divorce men suffer because they have to keep paying to support their wife even after they are separated. As if a woman needs a man to support them so until she finds another man you have to support them.
In other places in the world you hear a lot about women getting stoned for adultery but how often are men stoned? (this is a genuine question)
We certainly hear about the cases of women getting stoned for adultery, but don't hear much about men getting stoned for the same crime.
The laws seem a lot more restrictive on women than on men. Perhaps this is because men tend to hold the positions of power in government and religion.
This guy had been hung up by his arms for so long the blood supply had been stopped for too long and he had contracted gangrene in both arms. The only option for the surgeon was to remove both arms.
Thing is though it turns out this guy wasn't a terrorist, he was a young farmer that refused to pay off the local warlord and so he ends up with his arms removed.
Now here in New Zealand there are things that could be done, artificial limbs with motorised hands that might allow him to live an almost normal life, though it would not be cheap.
In Afghanistan I suspect his future is dependence on his family and a general burden to society.
The Army surgeon was discharged from army service because that day he became a pacifist but this really has nothing to do with the current war. These so called war lords are simply what we in the west would call mafia bosses, or the heads of organised crime syndicates. They are everywhere and operate whether there is a war on or not.
I would suggest that anything you make illegal you will find these people taking their cut, whether it is alcohol or drugs or prostitution, firearms, whatever.
Prostitution is said to be the oldest profession... people have sold their bodies for all sorts of things and still do today everywhere. Do you think it is a coincidence that so many of the top business men have really hot secretaries?
It is human nature... and you can fight it, or you can accept it is going to happen anyway and regulate it. The amusing thing is that if you fight it everyone will keep their mouths shut. If you legalise it and the competition start bringing in underage workers that work for almost nothing then you start getting complaints from the workers losing business.
Morals and values should not be absolute in a state as laws are based upon morals and if we choose a sole source for our morals and thus our laws than we'd become an oppressive, totalitarian, theocratic state, no better than Iran or North Korea. Of course, we can't have too much freedoms too, as we'd also have Anarchy, where human nature will take hold, and being a Hobbesian myself, people can only hate each other.
Freedom with responsibility.
Nobody wants the freedom to drink and drive because that clearly leads to death and destruction.
The freedom to go out and pay for sex when you want it does not cause death and destruction.
If you just want sex is it really fair to wine and dine a woman just to have sex with her and never phone her again?
How many women want a one night stand?
How many men want a one night stand?
The obvious difference in numbers creates a problem and leads to those men lying about their intentions till they get what they want and lots of women feeling cheap and used.
If you are not in a relationship then probably paying less than an average night out for two for sex with someone you never have to see again seems to be a good idea for some.
You can argue that Iranian beheading/stoning is usual or unusual, or that lethal injection is usual or unusual, but I always opted for Life in Prison as you live your days in our manifestation of he'll and die anyways.
You can certainly argue that one punishment cruel or not cruel, but I think the real issue is the balance and weightings of punishment.
I think it is ironic but as a general trend women get away with more in the west than in the other areas of the world. Two people rob a bank, and 2-3 people get killed... if the two robbers are men then both will likely get life or the death penalty depending upon where it takes place and the circumstances. If one is a woman you can almost guarantee the woman will get a lighter sentence. It is as if women are less responsible, or easily controlled by men so it is less their fault.
In family court children will always go to the mother unless there is reasons not to (ie like their mother beat them or something).
In a divorce men suffer because they have to keep paying to support their wife even after they are separated. As if a woman needs a man to support them so until she finds another man you have to support them.
In other places in the world you hear a lot about women getting stoned for adultery but how often are men stoned? (this is a genuine question)
We certainly hear about the cases of women getting stoned for adultery, but don't hear much about men getting stoned for the same crime.
The laws seem a lot more restrictive on women than on men. Perhaps this is because men tend to hold the positions of power in government and religion.
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
Points : 418
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : California, USA
Ad I said, I'm a Hobbesian; if people have the choice to DUI, they will. I just don't have enough faith in humanity for them not to. Responsibility, therefor, should fall upon the shoulders of the Law Enforcement. Some of them may have some ethical fallicies (police brutality), but someone has to know their morals.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
Points : 634
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 35
Location : Pakistan
@GarryB
Got you again
Shy my a$$...Google the word brothels & search for it in your own area then..u will see how shy they are. My morals disallow me to post the brothel images in West but dont plz call them shy; well ofcoarse you again will call it a advertisement issue.
Again naive are you; including cultural variation is an old way of getting
Poison remains a poison be it for Russians; Indians; Iranians...(again if you look at documentaries). By the way this culture thing again is your opinion I think; because my challenge still stand; have a vote for/against PORN & let me know which culture wants what
Guess what you dont answer straight & always go round the way!! First keep religion out & again I am repeating it... just base your decisions on the common sense & further more HUMANITY. All of your examples above directly is influenced by religious beliefs eating pork; praying in specific orientation; believing in God or gods doesnt hurt anybody or is it. You again trying to derail by imposing word like beliefs/culture/traditions/morals; you urself know how ambiguous these words may appear in any context...I ain't against any of these but if something in any beliefs/culture/traditions/morals goes against humanity its a problem or isn't it.
If you so much is a fan of undue tolerance why not make the human MORTAL COMBAT as pactised by Rome an entertaining weekend activity
Though porn is legalised & the porn money is being used to run election campaigns( I have the BBC proof if you need one) still the rape cases is an exaggerative figure or isn't it
Again u proves my point of PORN being a menace to young generation. As for the above example Priest has more brains than you & those parents are more caring than you
My question remains to be answered & make it simple & not your usual round the way. Just answer yes or no!!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f8fbe224d60dbe0be5c3dee5769931eca3e7b8fe0417a31682e3a934329c7a5e
& do tell me whether after 1960s rapes go up or down?? & do tell me whether a lot of people loved porn to be legalised & even today people majority ones want to legalise porn in any form including today internet edition??
Regarding prostitution thats why marriage is a rule made everywhere such that a boyfriend after having sex with two/three girlfriends dont deceit them; making promises of marriage& then after sex pleasures just vanish away!! One don't need his/her child to be deceived in such a way
Giv me stats man giv me proof that women in a brothel want to married to a single man or be intercoarsed by various men; but yes once she became porn indulged no one is going to take her as wife (normally) & so she be happy with the brothel life. With nowhere to go she will find brothel a home sweet home & you will see it as a happy ending~~~
Unfortunately it is mostly opinion and common sense.
Got you again
It is a very publicity shy industry and only appears in public when someone wants to change the legal status of their house to allow it to be used as a Brothel (ie place of business) and it is near a school or day care centre. Usually there is a few complaints from various religious groups initially that it will pollute the minds of the children... and then it all blows over because most brothels have their curtains closed and don't have people on the roof dressed as half naked pirates having sex on all day and all night.
Shy my a$$...Google the word brothels & search for it in your own area then..u will see how shy they are. My morals disallow me to post the brothel images in West but dont plz call them shy; well ofcoarse you again will call it a advertisement issue.
And I am not saying that legalised prostitution is for everyone. Different cultures have different ways of dealing with different things.
Again naive are you; including cultural variation is an old way of getting
Poison remains a poison be it for Russians; Indians; Iranians...(again if you look at documentaries). By the way this culture thing again is your opinion I think; because my challenge still stand; have a vote for/against PORN & let me know which culture wants what
As far as I am concerned however selling sexual services should not be a legal issue, it is a moral issue for those concerned.
Should Jews be made to eat pork? Should the catholic priests that molest altar boys be made to get married or get legitimate adult sexual outlets for their feelings?
Should an athiest be forced to conform to religious rules of conduct?
Well with thou shalt not kill I agree, because societies structure would not hold together if anyone could kill anyone else for any reason, however there are times when societies needs are met by the killing of people. War is one example. Self defence is another.
But some rules are more personal... moral questions relating to that religion. Should Christians be forced to face Mecca when they pray? These rules should only apply to those that believe such things are important.
Jews don't burn down pig farms to prevent the production of pork.
What happened to tolerance of the beliefs of others?
Guess what you dont answer straight & always go round the way!! First keep religion out & again I am repeating it... just base your decisions on the common sense & further more HUMANITY. All of your examples above directly is influenced by religious beliefs eating pork; praying in specific orientation; believing in God or gods doesnt hurt anybody or is it. You again trying to derail by imposing word like beliefs/culture/traditions/morals; you urself know how ambiguous these words may appear in any context...I ain't against any of these but if something in any beliefs/culture/traditions/morals goes against humanity its a problem or isn't it.
If you so much is a fan of undue tolerance why not make the human MORTAL COMBAT as pactised by Rome an entertaining weekend activity
Ah again; few & plenty are quiet ambiguous to me you back up your claims sirI am sure there are a few, but why bother?
There are plenty of women wanting to earn money already here.
The police check legal brothels for under age workers, but no system is perfect.
hehehehe...u own claims proves my point & simultaneously proves you wrong!! You were a great lover of legalising & control plan; guess what it didn't work for USIs prostitution legal in the US?
I don't think it is.
From Wiki:
Nevada is the only U.S. state to allow some legal prostitution,[1] in the form of heavily regulated brothels. Prostitution outside these licensed brothels is illegal throughout the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada
So the majority of those kidnapped persons being imported into the US are being done so by organised crime I would think to supply an illegal market. As such I am sure there will be problems of underage workers and sex slaves... they are already breaking the law by using prostitutes they might as well give the customer exactly what they want... even if it would be illegal if properly regulated.
Though porn is legalised & the porn money is being used to run election campaigns( I have the BBC proof if you need one) still the rape cases is an exaggerative figure or isn't it
Sad for you sir....but it quiet understandable now why you aren't offended by brothels presence..by the way won't you be relatively happy if this incident never took place:?:I have a sister in law and a brother in law that were both guilty of adultery. Neither were arrested. Neither spent any time in jail or even a fine. Both divorced my relatives respectively and both got half of the shared assets. They were not penalised in any way for being adulterers.
Your point being that you rate money above humanity (again no religions plz)I have done a lot of jobs I didn't like very much. I chose to do them for the money that I earned from doing them.
I made that statement because when the news item pops up on TV about a person applying for the licence to operate a brothel in a private residence that is 10 houses away from a day care centre or a school it is always the local priest that is interviewed and he is always worried about the effect it will have on the children.
Then a few agitated parents are interviewed and they too share the same fears that perhaps the children might somehow be corrupted seeing men going into the address and leaving an hour later.
Again u proves my point of PORN being a menace to young generation. As for the above example Priest has more brains than you & those parents are more caring than you
First of all if the Prime Minister of New Zealand was single I rather think the opposition party will make a big deal out of it, but that most of the public wouldn't care much... a bit like the monica lewinsky affair for Clinton. If the PM doesn't try to hide the facts then he has broken no law.
If New Zealanders had such moral objections to brothels they wouldn't be legal would they?
I am sure MP Georgina Beyer might have struggled to get elected in many countries in the middle east too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgina_Beyer
My question remains to be answered & make it simple & not your usual round the way. Just answer yes or no!!
I think thats why alcoholism is to be the war Putin is deemed to win!! Your own countrymen debunk youThe west is not perfect, but I am rather happy with my part of the west. Note the west includes Holland, Amsterdam which legalises so called lesser drugs, and in most of the west prostitution is not legal.
There are some things that are banned in the Middle East I agree with like the banning of alcohol, but I know it would never work in practise here. It is legal to brew your own alcohol here and you can buy brewing kits from the supermarket to make anything from beer to various spirits.
Ya I have a simple solution; Capital punishment for the rapist either boy/girl. Then you will see rapes coming down & not the 'legalising & controlling'...
In many cases rape has nothing at all to do with sex and everything to do with domination. Conjugal visits in prisons might relieve tensions and reduce rape rates but it would not stop rapes entirely.
Rules or humanity your callNo. Ignoring or having no rules is anarchy.
& you haven't proved it either that pornstars are willing to have a blowjob on their faces. But have you looked at the documentaries I have posted; what the pornstars say about having money in time with no respectable alternative. You seem to have very less knowledge about adult industry. Have you ever researched when did USA allowed this disease legal Ummmm!! tell me didn't USA opposed this beforehand. I tell you USA opposed it for quiet a long time even oppressed the infidels physically, even USA didn't till 1960s allowed the adult film industry legalReally. Then can you explain why 70% of the internet is porn?
Why the porn industry in the US makes 20 times what Hollywood makes in profits every year?
If nobody was interested in sex why do you think the Earths population is increasing at the rate it has?
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f8fbe224d60dbe0be5c3dee5769931eca3e7b8fe0417a31682e3a934329c7a5e
& do tell me whether after 1960s rapes go up or down?? & do tell me whether a lot of people loved porn to be legalised & even today people majority ones want to legalise porn in any form including today internet edition??
Pathetic taste you got. Having sex after marriage (when you are bound to giv due repect to your wife & not having her alone for your fleshly desires) is something else & having sex via sex slavery is a different issue; like killing in self-defence (your war example) & killing for amusement (my Rome example) are two different thingsI would counter that by asking how many people do not have sex at all during their entire lives. I would suggest that this is a very small portion of the worlds population.
Some again ambiguity; money over humanity again patheticYes, some are. But it is easier to create sex slaves when prostitution is illegal and unregulated.
A high class hooker sorry... escort can earn more in a weekend than some women earn in their lifetimes. Who is exploiting whom?
Elaborate your bold part or I will produce documentary illustrating how rapes/AIDS has increased in the Africa after seeing US porn movies & how wives are made by their daily porn watchers husbands to do anal sex which they wont like....& so onDo some research of your own, first of all rape has little to do with sex. Second Nevada is the only state in the US that legalises prostitution.
Now you are reasonable; but still prostitution is your last choice isn't it. & if your government adobt adequate measures to finance your child you willnt at all allow your children to go for prostitution & neither will thy want..I wouldn't want my children to get involved with prostitution.
If that was their choice (to pay their way through university) then that is their decision.
you write a lot; yes there occurs a straightforward difference; before marriage its prostitution & after marriage its adultery & so be it...Tell me if a girl is raped which noble fellow will take her as a wife....& she will end up in prostituition that you people will call coomodity in a free market ( again you haven't put forward stats of willing prostitutes but I have refer to my documentary 'Day my God died').Adultery and prostitution is not the same thing. Sexual favours is a commodity that can be bought and sold on a free market. If it happens to be illegal that wont stop the trade, any more than making murder illegal will stop murder from occurring.
Certainly for some women that is all they have to trade of value sometimes. It is still up to them whether they choose to make such an offer or move on to someone else to ask for food/work/money.
If sex is forced on them that is not prostitution... it is rape.
Regarding prostitution thats why marriage is a rule made everywhere such that a boyfriend after having sex with two/three girlfriends dont deceit them; making promises of marriage& then after sex pleasures just vanish away!! One don't need his/her child to be deceived in such a way
As long as it is discrete and is between consenting adults then why should it be a crime
Giv me stats man giv me proof that women in a brothel want to married to a single man or be intercoarsed by various men; but yes once she became porn indulged no one is going to take her as wife (normally) & so she be happy with the brothel life. With nowhere to go she will find brothel a home sweet home & you will see it as a happy ending~~~
GarryB- Posts : 40557
Points : 41059
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Got you again
What do you mean got me again?
If the New Zealand population thought like you did then why would prostitution be legal here? New Zealand is a democracy and every few years we get to vote various parties in or out.
You'd think that if the majority wanted to "save their daughters and mothers from a life of sin" the political parties would latch onto that and make it a priority to make it illegal?
You'd also think that womens groups would be demanding change too?
Unless of course you are wrong.
Shy my a$$...Google the word brothels & search for it in your own area then..u will see how shy they are. My morals disallow me to post the brothel images in West but dont plz call them shy; well ofcoarse you again will call it a advertisement issue.
If you look you will find. They don't however put adverts in peoples letter boxes and have big billboards outside their houses telling everyone where to get sex for money. A few adverts in the back of a few cheap rags some people call newspapers is generally enough. The people who are interested in that sort of thing wont have much trouble finding out what they need to know but it is not general knowledge who is selling what.
Again naive are you; including cultural variation is an old way of getting
We are currently discussing New Zealand laws on prostitution so we are already clearly off topic... New Zealand doesn't even have a death penalty as far as I am aware.
Poison remains a poison be it for Russians; Indians; Iranians...(again if you look at documentaries).
Poison kills people. Prostitution is a morality thing. Other places handle things differently and clearly have more problems than we do.
If a little girl in new zealand is starving and is thinking about prostitution... well the standard thing to do for new zealand girls is to have sex with their boyfriends and get pregnant. A single mother in New Zealand gets money from the government called the DPB, or domestic purposes benefit, which is like the unemployment benefit, but for women that have children under the age of 15. They often have several children because for each child they get a certain amount per week. I had a job a couple of years ago with an Australian guy who looked like he was in his 50s and he was always complaining about everything. It seems that the government had caught him living with his girlfriend so he had to go on the unemployment benefit so she could keep getting the DPB. The thing was that when you are on the unemployment he had to take any work that was going and he ended up on a work site where I was working at the time so his bad mood came from only getting $400 a week for working because his Kiwi girlfriend on the DPB would get over $600 a week for their 5 kids under the age of 15 when he wasn't working. Of course as the kids got older they just had some more. There would never be a need for a Kiwi girl to HAVE to be a prostitute.
By the way this culture thing again is your opinion I think; because my challenge still stand; have a vote for/against PORN & let me know which culture wants what
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... the Internet is largely created by people and something like 70% of it is porn... the people have spoken.
There is no law that says New Zealanders cannot make submissions to ban prostitution. The police generally support the current situation because they would rather deal with real crimes than people having sex with strangers for money.
Guess what you dont answer straight & always go round the way!! First keep religion out & again I am repeating it... just base your decisions on the common sense & further more HUMANITY.
Religion is a very important part of the reasons for those who object to prostitution... how can I leave it out?
It is often that prostitution is not Christian, though often they disguise it by talking about "family values" whatever they are.
All of your examples above directly is influenced by religious beliefs eating pork; praying in specific orientation; believing in God or gods doesnt hurt anybody or is it.
The problem is that people who believe in religion often also believe that their god has a set of rules to live by and to judge others by. Consider that now in Africa most women cover their breasts, yet before the white man went there such a thing didn't happen. The west imposes its values on others yet again.
Nudity as a taboo is a religious thing... it is religious groups that go around telling everyone to put something on and cover your body.
.I ain't against any of these but if something in any beliefs/culture/traditions/morals goes against humanity its a problem or isn't it.
Humanity goes against humanity all the time. We are animals but we set ourselves apart from the other animals. Was it inhuman of western society to demand African societies to put some clothes on?
Yes, of course it was.
If you so much is a fan of undue tolerance why not make the human MORTAL COMBAT as pactised by Rome an entertaining weekend activity
I don't need to... it is already happening. Watch a news channel to see all the violence in Afghanistan and Iraq. Become much more high tech... and because of that instead of 50 people dying thousands are dying... hundreds of thousands are dying. Western stomachs are soft now so they just want the numbers and to see their heros in their uniforms and on their vehicles.
hehehehe...u own claims proves my point & simultaneously proves you wrong!! You were a great lover of legalising & control plan; guess what it didn't work for US
It works in Nevada... it is in other parts of the US where the underage girls and imported sex slaves are the problem... where it is illegal.
Though porn is legalised & the porn money is being used to run election campaigns( I have the BBC proof if you need one) still the rape cases is an exaggerative figure or isn't it
Where did you get this from? Are you talking about Nevada? The State controls the brothels so any porn money used to run election campaigns would be spent by the state.
Rape has nothing to do with prostitution... or sex.
It is about violence and control.
Porn money is certainly used to run election campaigns... John F Kennedy used mob money to get elected that probably included money from drugs, racketeering, and prostitution.
At least Porn money is not organised crime money.
The porn industry in the US makes about 5 times more money than Hollywood. Money is power in the US... ask OJ Simpson.
Sad for you sir....but it quiet understandable now why you aren't offended by brothels presence.
Because I am a heathen athiest that is going to hell?
Not my problem if the people my relatives married slept around.
..by the way won't you be relatively happy if this incident never took place:?:
Both have left those marriages and are now happily married to someone else. To be honest I didn't think they were that happy in their previous marriages so I am happy for them now.
Your point being that you rate money above humanity (again no religions plz)
No, I rate being able to eat and to afford a house and car above living in the street. There are many jobs that are degrading or boring but there is no shame in doing an honest days work.
Again u proves my point of PORN being a menace to young generation. As for the above example Priest has more brains than you & those parents are more caring than you
After that news report nothing was done and the brothel started operating. The curtains remain closed and occasionally a young man or old man goes in and leaves about an hour later. The vulnerable children have no idea what is going on and really don't pay it much attention at all. When I walked to school as a kid I walked past hundreds of houses in the morning and for all I know in half of them men and women could have been having sex for all I know. I just didn't think about it... just like any vulnerable new generation kid walking past what he has been told is a brothel. If he has the guts he might go up and knock on the door and be told to come back in 10 years. Poor kid will start worshipping the devil I am sure... lets burn him at the stake?
My question remains to be answered & make it simple & not your usual round the way. Just answer yes or no!!
There is no yes or no answer. In this video is it sex with a woman or man? Is he any good at sex. Does he have a big weapon?
Overall I rather doubt people will care whether the guy they are voting for has sex and films it or not. If he tries to hide it by lying or comes clean and explains it has nothing to do with his ability to run the country I am sure he will lose some votes but he could certainly still get reelected. Look at Bill Clinton... he handled it poorly and lied and still maintained some popularity... because the economy was OK.
I think thats why alcoholism is to be the war Putin is deemed to win!! Your own countrymen debunk you
My own countrymen tried prohibition during WWII and it was voted down when the men came back from service in Europe. (I am a New Zealander... I am not Russian, I can't speak or read Russian, and have never even been to Russia).
Ya I have a simple solution; Capital punishment for the rapist either boy/girl. Then you will see rapes coming down & not the 'legalising & controlling'...
So you are a fan of the Iranian method of dealing with it?
Rules or humanity your call
What you are calling humanity IS a set of rules. How else could you decide what is humaine or inhumaine if there are no rules or guidelines to tell the difference?
And this humanity you speak of, does it apply to all humans or you or what?
I know people talk of inhumaine treatment of animals but it is often humans responsible for the treatment...
& you haven't proved it either that pornstars are willing to have a blowjob on their faces.
There is plenty of work in porn from softcore right through to hardcore and beyond. If an actor is not comfortable doing something then they become known for not doing that and don't get those job offers. The pay for men is pathetic... most do it for the sex. Pay for women is better but not amazing... they generally do it for the sex too.
what the pornstars say about having money in time with no respectable alternative.
They are addicted to easy money and don't want to do real work for a sensible wage. I can understand that. If I got paid to shag a really hot chick I would probably not really want to go back to flipping burgers at McDs. Life isn't fair.
You seem to have very less knowledge about adult industry.
This is Russian Military Forum... not Penthouse Forum.
Have you ever researched when did USA allowed this disease legal Ummmm!! tell me didn't USA opposed this beforehand. I tell you USA opposed it for quiet a long time even oppressed the infidels physically, even USA didn't till 1960s allowed the adult film industry legal
Indeed and the Christian church fought all ideas of democracy too.
Yes, you will complain about me bringing religion into it, but listen to how often US presidents mention god... I find it very creepy.
& do tell me whether after 1960s rapes go up or down?? & do tell me whether a lot of people loved porn to be legalised & even today people majority ones want to legalise porn in any form including today internet edition??
You said I know nothing about it and then you ask more questions?
Pathetic taste you got. Having sex after marriage (when you are bound to giv due repect to your wife & not having her alone for your fleshly desires) is something else & having sex via sex slavery is a different issue; like killing in self-defence (your war example) & killing for amusement (my Rome example) are two different things
It is sad you equate sex with killing. Marriage is a religious thing that is totally against Nature. Marriage was invented by religion, but based on nature. Some animals have a male and lots of females which is good for population expansion and genetics because it is always the strongest males genes that are passed from generation to generation. Other animals pair up into couples but sometimes those couples mate for life and sometimes just for that season. The couples option makes a society structure possible because males do not spend all their time fighting for their position. It means if confronted by a threat that there will be lots of males to defend the group. Humans were not strong enough for the Harem model because one man defending a group of women from say a Hippo attack would quickly be killed. A large group of men could fend off all sorts of attacks like a pack of wolves etc but alone they would be vulnerable even if they were the strongest local male.
Some again ambiguity; money over humanity again pathetic
You choose to judge her? Are you so perfect? I know I am not and that it is not my place to judge her choices.
Elaborate your bold part or I will produce documentary illustrating how rapes/AIDS has increased in the Africa after seeing US porn movies & how wives are made by their daily porn watchers husbands to do anal sex which they wont like....& so on
The solution is clear for those wives... if their men are so interested in anal sex they should go out and buy a 10 inch long dildo and keep it by the bed... when their husbands ask for anal sex shove the dildo up their husbands ass. I am sure they wont be so interested in anal sex again.
Rape is about violence and control and not about sex.
Now you are reasonable; but still prostitution is your last choice isn't it.
It is not my choice at all.
& if your government adobt adequate measures to finance your child you willnt at all allow your children to go for prostitution & neither will thy want..
Why should the government pay? They can get a job and work for 2-3 years to save up the money to go to university, or they can get a part time job and do university part time. There are plenty of choices... but it is not me making those choices.
before marriage its prostitution & after marriage its adultery
Prostitution requires payment for sex. Adultery is a married person having sex of any kind outside the marriage.
So a married man goes to a prostitute and buys an hour of her time it is both adultery and prostitution.
Tell me if a girl is raped which noble fellow will take her as a wife.
There are so many rapes, including child molestation cases, what noble fellow has a choice. Why do you judge a girl that has been raped? If the woman you loved gets attacked and raped do you stop loving her? Why should the woman be responsible for rape?
I guess there must be an enormous number of unmarried women where you live... if a man rapes his wife does that mean they must divorce?
she will end up in prostituition that you people will call coomodity in a free market ( again you haven't put forward stats of willing prostitutes but I have refer to my documentary
So rape victim is a reason to become a prostitute... even though being a prostitute is illegal? One crime makes another crime OK?
Regarding prostitution thats why marriage is a rule made everywhere such that a boyfriend after having sex with two/three girlfriends dont deceit them; making promises of marriage& then after sex pleasures just vanish away!!
So boys must be denied sex... is that the rule?
I heard on a talk back radio show a week ago that a guy was between girlfriends and was visiting prostitutes. He wanted to ask if, when he does start dating someone seriously if he should tell them about the prostitutes. He claimed he just wanted sex and didn't want to lie to women and spend money on food and dancing when all he wanted was sex and then dump them. Most of the women who phoned in said they actually respected his honesty and his intentions and thought he should continue that and be honest with any new partner about what he did and why.
One don't need his/her child to be deceived in such a way
I live in a western culture and having several sexual partners before marriage is normal.
Giv me stats man giv me proof that women in a brothel want to married to a single man or be intercoarsed by various men
If a woman.... any woman wants to be married to a single man WFT is she doing in a brothel? Many women and men want to try before they buy so to speak.
but yes once she became porn indulged no one is going to take her as wife (normally)
Porn and brothels are not the same thing. If she was a porn star then she might be widely known, but if she works in a brothel all she needs to do is move to a different town and start a new life. What she tells other people about herself is her own business.