Russian Naval Spetsnaz

Hi everyone!

Do you guys know whether the Navy has its own spetsnaz regiment? Are the Morskaya Pekhota (Marines) considered spetsnaz?

Thanks!

ekacipta021292 wrote:Hi everyone!

Do you guys know whether the Navy has its own spetsnaz regiment? Are the Morskaya Pekhota (Marines) considered spetsnaz?

Thanks!

Spetnaz means special purpose... all branches of the military and militia have their own Spetznaz. It has different purposes depending on the service. The navy does have its own Spetznaz... Marines are not Spetznaz.

So, I suppose that the marines have their own spetsnaz. Is that true?

No.

http://dss.army.lv/preface.htm

The KGB also had a naval spetsnaz ...well kind. Back in the day Alfa and Vymple had naval unit's trained by instructors from GRU's Navel sabotage unit's.

The naval spetsnaz and marines are like the VDV and spetsnaz.

The term spetsnaz is a generic term that simply means special purpose troops.

Even the construction forces have special purpose troops.

What we in the west call Spetsnaz are GRU Spetsnaz.

Naval Spetsnaz are not so well known in the west but they are separate from the Soviet Naval Infantry or Marines.

If you see a guy with rebreather gear (ie no bubbles) and an underwater rifle or pistol then they are probably Naval Spetsnaz.

Would you agree Vlad?

(I sometimes find it confusing myself... there are all sorts of spetsnaz, some of which are MVD or FSB like Alpha group and Vympel and others, it gets very confusing... )

True.

Being in Singapore, with all sort of 'western-oriented' sources and combined them with the Russian sources make me freaking confused. I think I should be a lot more certain when I move to Vladivostok permanently next year. In Singapore, we tend to equalize the GRU (foreign intelligence) and spetsnaz overall.

"If you see a guy with rebreather gear (ie no bubbles) and an underwater rifle or pistol then they are probably Naval spetsnaz."

I think that Naval spetsnaz is very wide in definition, it could be scout, or reconnaissance team. While in MVD or FSB it is mainly for counter terrorism, and anti-riot units, and have their own names such as Vityaz, 604 TsSN, Saturn, Rosich, Rus', etc.

Is that true? I am novice to Russian military (xaxa)

In Singapore, we tend to equalize the GRU (foreign intelligence) and spetsnaz overall.

When you read about spetsnaz in the west it is generally GRU spetsnaz they are referring to.
MVD and KGB/FSB spetsnaz are more counter terrorism units.

To put down riots the MVD interior ministry standard units have similar equipment to the armed forces including tanks and apcs and assault rifles so they really don't needs special troops for riots.

Naval spetsnaz include most divers and other navy personel involved in special missions (like SEALs).

I think that Naval spetsnaz is very wide in definition, it could be scout, or reconnaissance team.

And for those special roles they use special forces...

From riding mini subs into enemy harbours, to recon missions to check beach conditions for a landing, through all sorts of other missions the Navy Spetsnaz are the best kept secret of the Soviet Union.

Like the guys in the front of this boat:


or these three:

Talking about GRU, I heard that GRU exists in every part of Armed force. So, the Russian VMF also has its own GRU detachment?

AFAIK the GRU has been seperate from the armed forces and can support any part of the armed forces.

They are basically intel/recon services, so they operate mainly with the Army.

I would think that the Naval Spetsnaz are part of an organisation that offers the same services for the Navy.

The Airforce has its own intel/recon services I assume.

To be honest I hadn't really thought about it too much so take the above as just my opinion.

I wouldn't be surprised that even a Russian post office has a spetsnaz unit.

Seriously it's a giant mess right now.


and Garry those divers could be OB PDSS or FSB frogmen or MVD frogmen.

of course SVR has thair own frogmen too. Or should have at least ..the kgb had ..besides the Alfa and Vymple who had their own frogmen.

It depends on the type of operation of course. For a Naval beach landing it would be Naval Spetsnaz's job to recon the beach and to go in first to help secure it and possibly also spot targets for naval gunfire support or air attack to suppress any resistance to the landing.

Of course it is a bit like SWAT in the US. SWAT means special weapons and tactics, so pretty much any government branch can have SWAT units for "emergency situations".

Interesting photos:








What make them interesting to me is that the top photo is the first photo I have seen of an operational test of the ADS, which is a modified version of the A-91 assault rifle that can use specially designed underwater ammo and normal 5.45mm standard issue ammo from the same weapon. The special underwater ammo is said to be as effective as the specially designed stuff for the odd underwater weapons they used previously, while firing standard ammo with the same or better accuracy as the standard AK.

The other photo shows the GSh-18 pistol that as shown functions normally underwater as it does on land.

The question I would have is how effective are the short fat 9mm projectiles under water... perhaps they have developed new special ammo for them as well?

Here is a better view of the ADS:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MA1IFKwdAQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQLBW5Olm0c

Shooting underwater isn't really effective with gunpowder.

....But water molecules line themselves up to a magnetic field. If you could induce a magnetic field with the water molecules lined up, and you have a monopole magnet for a bullet....in theory you could shoot underwater.

Nobody has figured out how to make a monopole magnet yet. Figured that out and you revolutionize Naval warfare/ship propulsion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole

Water molecules lining up to a magnetic field is interesting. As you line them up theres a release of energy. Get two glasses of water. Separate them by 1 foot. Take a multimeter and put one electrode in 1 glass of water, and drop the other electrode in the other. Set the multimeter to milliVolts/DC. Take your left hand and use three fingers and gently rub the left glass in one direction, either up or down. Only 1 direction. Faster you go the more voltage differential you see on meter.

How is that possible? GLASS is in an insulator. Separated by 1 foot. Your hand is inducing a magnetic field on the water and the water molecules want to line up. Now take a magnet and do the same thing.

You killed it. No more voltage. Not even if you try using your hand next. Why? Your magnet had a North Pole and South Pole which disrupted the water. Take your left hand and put a finger in glass, take your right and put in other glass at same time..."shorting" the water.

OK....water now ready for programming again to show voltage difference if molecules get lined up again.

Another neat experiment, take a magnet and throw it in a plastic cup with some water and freeze it. After it's frozen dump the icecube out. Notice the ice shows molecules in water lined up to magnetic field with ice arcs?


Only way to "shoot" in water is with magnetic field technology. Master that and you could also fly in the air and then use same craft to fly into water..like UFO.

Shooting underwater isn't really effective with gunpowder.

Tell that to Naval Spetsnaz...

APS full auto underwater assault rifle and SPP-1 underwater pistol:

....But water molecules line themselves up to a magnetic field. If you could induce a magnetic field with the water molecules lined up, and you have a monopole magnet for a bullet....in theory you could shoot underwater.

Nothing to do with magnetics and everything to do with hydrodynamics.

An M16 would be useless underwater in 5.56mm cal for the same reason an AK would be useless in 5.45mm cal. Both are small high velocity bullets that are designed to slow down quickly in water... human targets are 75% water. They are designed to dump their energy rapidly to have a greater effect on the target so they will travel no more than a metre or two in water.

Slower bullets like pistol bullets are more effective because of their lower velocity and more solid bullet construction, but the ideal shape for moving through the water efficiently is a long slim shape like a knitting needle... or a torpedo.

The best way to push an object through water is to separate the object from the water... in other words a rocket motor is inefficient at pushing a missile through water, but put a gas generator in the nose of the missile and it is pushing through air instead of water.

Without a nose mounted gas generator ( as used on the 200Knt Shkval torpedo) the next best thing is to use nose tip shape to form an air bubble at the nose for the object to move with... it is called super cavitation.

Only way to "shoot" in water is with magnetic field technology. Master that and you could also fly in the air and then use same craft to fly into water..like UFO.

The APS and SPP-1 have been in operational service for decades.

The new ADS uses a new type of ammo that is externally similar to standard 5.45mm ammo and when using standard ammo the ADS is as accurate as any normal rifle, but with the new ammo it can be used underwater to kill enemy frogmen or dangerous underwater creatures like jellyfish and sharks or dolphins trained by the enemy etc.

This rifle looks really cool.


Forward ejection so you can use it left or right handed without getting hot shell cases in the face with no adjustment needed to change hands.
Fires standard 5.45mm effective to 600m, but also fires special rounds designed to be fired underwater to effective ranges greater than the APS weapon it replaces (with the long needle like ammo).

Replaces two weapons for navy divers... APS for underwater and into and out of water shooting, and the AK-74 for above water shooting at targets not in the water.

Navy Spetsnaz testing kit:



The old pistol



The new pistol (GSh-18 in 9x19mm) that can be fired underwater



The new ADS underwater



The new ADS above water.

That reminds me... the photo above shows a range of special new ammo the Russians are using or testing.

The bullets relevant to this thread are on the right hand column and are the bottom three cartridges...

From top to bottom they are a 4.5 x 19mm round and two 5.45 x 39mm rounds.

All three are based on standard rounds (9x19mm NATO, and two 5.45 x 39mm rounds).

They all use sabot designs with small calibre very long projectiles and are all designed to be fired from conventional weapons underwater.

The long narrow design of the projectiles greatly increases their effective range underwater.

This means instead of carrying different weapons for above and below the water you can carry magazines filled with above or under water ammo and simply change mags as you change medium.

Pretty nasty projectiles I would say!

Very customised for specific purposes.

As they say... guns don't kill people... bullets do.

New French Rebreathers for Russian Navy Divers

SEVASTOPOL, April 2 (RIA Novosti)



The Russian Black Sea Fleet is considering replacing Soviet-made underwater breathing equipment used by its combat divers with new French-produced Amphora closed circuit rebreathers, a Defense Ministry spokesman said on Monday.

The respirators are currently being tested, the spokesman said. If the tests are successful, they would replace IDA-71 individual breathing apparatuses that have been used by Soviet and Russian navy divers since 1971.

The French rebreathers are lighter and smaller than their Soviet analogues and are equipped with an advanced breathing mixture supply system, the Defense Ministry spokesman said.

Unlike IDAs, which are attached to the diver’s back, the Amphora apparatus’s main unit is fastened to the chest, he said. As a result, Russian navy divers will have to undergo additional training to be able to implement their combat tasks with the new rebreathers, he added.
The Amphora is based on the combat diver Frogs (Full Range Oxygen Gas System) apparatus. It is made up of two components: a 2.1L Oxygen cylinder which provides a dive duration of 240 minutes at 7 meters, and a 2L mixture cylinder to be filled with nitrox, which gives a dive duration of 60 minutes.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120402/172560168.html

Whatever works for them I guess. Usually I don't like to see Russia buying foreign equipment, but if their current rebreathers really are that old then I guess it definitely couldn't hurt.

Perhaps they could pass a few of the french models on to the Russian developers so that the Russian developers can see what is expected of them and try to improve further on the design for when they need more or to upgrade?

GarryB wrote:Perhaps they could pass a few of the french models on to the Russian developers so that the Russian developers can see what is expected of them and try to improve further on the design for when they need more or to upgrade?

A good idea. It could possibly be like when they purchased some of those French FELIN systems. They could just be studying and evaluating them. Then they'll work to develop their own version.

I hope anyways.

Do the Russian naval infantry or naval spetsnaz guys or anyone else use ekranoplans, like the A-90?

Do the Russian naval infantry or naval spetsnaz guys or anyone else use ekranoplans, like the A-90?

Not AFAIK.

There were plans for using them as troop transports, and as anti ship missile carriers, but work ended a while ago.

More recently there has been some renewed interest but it is early days yet.