Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

12 tanks destroyed is a huge lose for most armies. Less missile but bigger ones means Pk is higher and guidance part is bigger and more effective.

Well another important point is that helicopters don't operate alone, so 12 ATGM per helo actually means 48 missiles per four helo flight group, which is plenty.

The best way to up the guided weapon count would be laser homing unguided rockets in rocket pods, as modern ATGMs have enormous warheads to penetrate very well protected MBTs which makes them serious over kill for the vast majority of actual vehicles on the battlefield like trucks and light vehicles... an 80mm rocket with a direct hit and a decent HE warhead would be perfectly fine for dealing with such threats...

Seems like Syria is a rather useful testing ground for them... and their attack platforms seem to be seriously benefiting from it.

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
22h
According to Kamov's test pilot Alexander Cherednichenko, the naval helicopter the Ka-52K will receive an external sling to be able to carry cargo or evacuate people/casualties.

That is a clever idea... they might never actually use it, but adding it would not be that difficult and it wont get in the way or be much of a problem normally.


Would be an interesting way to deliver food and ammo and weapons to deployed troops and recover any injured or troops being replaced.

Wouldn't be very comfortable just being in a net, but I suspect various containers could be developed... perhaps even fitted with a tail for stability and light armour protection from small arms perhaps...

Talking about the Ka-52M here
I think such news has been posted before but there are a few new tidbits in this article. So improved avionics, comms, self-reliance/reliability and possibly a reduction in weight.
As I had heard in regards to this upgrade before, the main thing the pilots were worried about is the lack of cabin armour, so I assume that will be focused on too.

http://mil.today/2019/Syria2/

Flying Tank Ka-52 Upgraded After Syrian Campaign

Attack helicopter Ka-52 modernized after combat experience in Syria was for the first time presented at the Army-2019 military forum. This showpiece did attend the Russian Airspace Force operations in that country. Mil.Press found out which parameters were improved and what trends exist in the present-day helicopter industry.

"This helicopter has advanced sighting system, increased target detection and identification range", said an anonymous expert. "Onboard software is optimized, which improves the efficiency of crew work in terms of reduction of decision-making time in certain operations. The upgrade has touched endurance as well, now the helicopter can operate 14 days off the base without maintenance. Only refueling and ammo replenishment is needed".

According to the interviewee, combat helicopters undergo permanent modernization. Allied companies design new equipment, new weapons, and engineers apply every innovation to available copters.

One of the key areas of continuous researches relates to the deadweight reduction, allowing for larger payload and longer operational radius. This problem, in particular, is resolved by wider use of composite materials. For instance, modern Ka-52 copters are over 50 percent made of composites. Another promising area for upgrade is connected to the communication system, particularly, in terms of electronic warfare resistance.

flamming_python wrote:Talking about the Ka-52M here
I think such news has been posted before but there are a few new tidbits in this article. So improved avionics, comms, self-reliance/reliability and possibly a reduction in weight.
As I had heard in regards to this upgrade before, the main thing the pilots were worried about is the lack of cabin armour, so I assume that will be focused on too.

http://mil.today/2019/Syria2/

Flying Tank Ka-52 Upgraded After Syrian Campaign

Attack helicopter Ka-52 modernized after combat experience in Syria was for the first time presented at the Army-2019 military forum. This showpiece did attend the Russian Airspace Force operations in that country. Mil.Press found out which parameters were improved and what trends exist in the present-day helicopter industry.

"This helicopter has advanced sighting system, increased target detection and identification range", said an anonymous expert. "Onboard software is optimized, which improves the efficiency of crew work in terms of reduction of decision-making time in certain operations. The upgrade has touched endurance as well, now the helicopter can operate 14 days off the base without maintenance. Only refueling and ammo replenishment is needed".

According to the interviewee, combat helicopters undergo permanent modernization. Allied companies design new equipment, new weapons, and engineers apply every innovation to available copters.

One of the key areas of continuous researches relates to the deadweight reduction, allowing for larger payload and longer operational radius. This problem, in particular, is resolved by wider use of composite materials. For instance, modern Ka-52 copters are over 50 percent made of composites. Another promising area for upgrade is connected to the communication system, particularly, in terms of electronic warfare resistance.

Thanks for this. Thre is a good Ka-52 book called "Gator of the Rise". The author interviewed the Ka-52's designer Sergey Mikheev. Sergey's reasoning for side by side layout was that that the same level of protection could be achieved (compared to tandem arrangement) with less armour. I think I mentioned in my video above that he stated he placed the radar in the nose because there would be too much vibration if it were mast mounted. Also a bigger radar could be placed in the nose. The book outlines how the Ka-50 beat the Mi-28 twice in trials. the weapon system was better. Kamov gained experience in avionics from the experience with their naval helicopters.

Re "According to Russian Helicopter, the KA-52 is equipped with a fixed 30mm cannon" in the article. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/russian-helicopters-awaits-big-ka-52m-buy-462695/

The cannon is actually not fixed. It has limited movement to fine-tune the aim certainly in azimuth where it can move a few degrees starboard.  Mikheev stated it makes a more stable gun platform. Also, the side gun is nearer the centre of gravity which aids stability.

The cannon used is the same as that fitted to the BMP-2, the 2A42 cannon, which is a very very powerful cannon... it throws the Hind around when it uses its twin barreled fixed 30mm cannon. The Havoc also moves quite a bit when firing too, but the Hokum looks very stable when firing.

Also to turn the nose left and right for most helicopters relies on the pedals and the tail rotor... when flying forward the effect of the tail rotor is greatly reduced and above about 50km/h it will only turn the nose a little because the slipstream force on the fuselage and the weak power of the tail rotor limit its effectiveness.

The Hokum on the other hand has three rotor blades spinning in each direction and each has significant momentum to the pedals increase or decrease the speed of one of the rotors to induce a turning effect much more powerful than any tail rotor.

Because of this the helo is able to perform pedal turns while travelling in any direction at relatively high speeds... it means it can also point rockets at targets without having to fly directly at them too... which is useful when they are shooting at you.

The mount on the Hokum is excellent and offers very very good stability and accuracy with a very powerful cannon because the cannon is attached to the aircraft near its centre of gravity making it more stable so it is not kicked around when it fires.

Ka-52´s onboard egyptian Mistral.

I was getting ridiculed 5 years ago for suggesting that Ka-52's could potentially get 100km range Hermes ATGM, but it looks like it might be reality:

Ka-52M armed with a missile with a range of 100 kilometers

The upgraded Ka-52M Alligator attack helicopter will be able to use a cruise missile with a flight range of up to 100 kilometers.






- The upgraded Ka-52M will be able to carry the latest product 305 cruise missiles. This helicopter helicopter can effectively hit any ground targets - including armored vehicles - at a distance of up to 100 km, a source in the military-industrial complex told TASS .

The interlocutor of the agency added that the modernized Alligator has an improved sighting and navigation system, the avionics of the cockpit and the screw group have been improved.

Earlier, another source in the defense industry told the agency that the “305 product” had passed combat tests in Syria. In time, they coincided with testing in conditions of real combat of the upgraded Mi-28NM Night Hunter attack helicopter.

Then , the first mention of the “305 product” appeared in the media . The flight range was modestly designated - "over 25 kilometers." The coordinates and target data are entered into the rocket before launch, the “product 305” overcomes most of the way under the control of an inertial navigation system, and when approaching the target, the homing head is turned on.

It is equipped with highly sensitive sensors operating in different ranges of the spectrum. The missile can be guided by the mark of the laser rangefinder-target designator, the heat radiated by the target, and also broadcast the picture from the camera to the helicopter cockpit. The weapon is protected from interference, is able to distinguish the target among infrared traps and operate in the "shot-forgot" mode.

The range of missiles from the current arsenal of combat helicopters of the Russian Aerospace Forces exceeds 15 kilometers. New weapons will allow front-line aviation to hit targets without entering the enemy’s air defense zone.

https://rg.ru/2020/02/15/ka-52m-vooruzhat-raketoj-s-dalnostiu-100-kilometrov.html

That's gonna be a good SEAD helicopter.

Interesting... so it is given the targets coordinates and is launched in that direction and has an optical including thermal seeker with a datalink back to the launch helicopter presumably so the weapon operator can select the target from the view of the missile itself a bit like the AS-13 and AS-18...

Very interesting...

The strike capacity of a Ka-52 with this missile will be close to that of a F-35.

Well it would be a good weapon to be used against an F-35... we have seen that US stealth aircraft of all types can easily be seen and tracked with IR sensors... these missiles should be the ideal way to bring such targets down...

GarryB wrote:Well it would be a good weapon to be used against an F-35... we have seen that US stealth aircraft of all types can easily be seen and tracked with IR sensors... these missiles should be the ideal way to bring such targets down...

Should be a really effective air-to-air tool, and the Apache doesn't even stand a chance in a duel, it'll literally convert Apaches in to flaming confetti! At Mach 5 speed, it takes approximately 1 minute to travel 100km, and the Apache fan boys are still circle-jerking over their latest modification having superior performance in altitude and speed (but with no evidence of this performance with a useful weapons load). It's like claims of the SR-71 and it's top speed (Mach 3.3) without the ability to carry any form of weapons. Performance statistics that don't factor weapons load is almost completely useless beyond knowing the max ferry range, and specialized surveillance/ELINT roles.

BTW, Hermes has been described as a mini-iskander, with the ability to maneuver with high g's/speed. I'm sure when Zircons development cycle is finished Hermes can benefit from the technology transfer and eventual performance boost.

GarryB wrote:Well it would be a good weapon to be used against an F-35... we have seen that US stealth aircraft of all types can easily be seen and tracked with IR sensors... these missiles should be the ideal way to bring such targets down...

GarryB the weapon of choice for air to air engagement, particularly agianst enemy helicopters (and only incidentally against enemy aircraft flying at low altitude to avoid destruction by long range AD systems) will be the Р-74М, just recently selected for integration with the Ми-28НМ that thanks to its new sensor suit will fully exploit its increased engagement range.



https://vpk.name/news/373558_pyatoe_pokolenie_vybivayut_vertolety_mi-28nm_prevratyat_v_istrebiteli.html



The stand-off cruise missile in question, still in final testing phase, is instead a product designed mostly for the new concept of employment of the expanding rotor wing component of Army's brigades, not only in support of the classical domestic combined arms operations, but much more importantly in deep operations of ВДД and also in those of the new airborne assault brigades.

This correspond to the new idea of "reactive" deep strike, entirely based on very-low-altitude penetration-capable platforms, with the integration of forward proceeding UAVs in the ISR roles, helicopter-mounted stand-off munitions in the deep-fire support/SEAD roles, all opening the way to the ВДД units destroying or gaining control of key enemy installations (particularly main air bases, radar satations and sommand/communication center).

This concept capitalize the enormous void, in western military force's composition, of the most elementary AD coverage at mid/low altitude, organic EW and masking elements for theirs infrastructures and first and second echelon ground offensive forces; this situation render almost impossible for them to prevent those kind of operations aimed at disorganize and collapse the same basis of theirs essential integration of air support and data dissemination for their ground component.

Isos wrote:
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
22h
According to Kamov's test pilot Alexander Cherednichenko, the naval helicopter the Ka-52K will receive an external sling to be able to carry cargo or evacuate people/casualties.

I guess it could even carry a sonar and some anti-submarine rockets or torpedo on weapon pylons. Making them sub hunters if they need to.

The new Mistral like class will carry a douzen of them so they can use the ship for annti sub operations.

The sonar can be mounted on external pylon in a pod so that the conversion into attack/sub hunter became easy.

That would allow them to help ka-27 in hunting submarines when they need to cover large area to protect the ships around and if they need to to have attack helicopters for land operation.

GarryB wrote:Interesting... so it is given the targets coordinates and is launched in that direction and has an optical including thermal seeker with a datalink back to the launch helicopter presumably so the weapon operator can select the target from the view of the missile itself a bit like the AS-13 and AS-18...

Very interesting...

But previously in another thread you had suggested that long range missiles/ BVR missiles can be dodged because the defendant has some time in hand to employ evasive manoeuvre or use other countermeasure?

Isos wrote:

That would allow them to help ka-27 in hunting submarines when they need to cover large area to protect the ships around and if they need to to have attack helicopters for land operation.

Will the naval Ka 52 also carry the 100km range cruise missile?

The Ka-52K will carry Kh-35U (270km range) against ships and coastal targets.

Hole wrote:The Ka-52K will carry Kh-35U (270km range) against ships and coastal targets.

So is this new 100km range missile an export version of the Kh-35U ?

Hole wrote:The Ka-52K will carry Kh-35U (270km range) against ships and coastal land targets.

Corrected.

Of course it can carry the Klenok/Hermes, I just wanted to demonstrate that it can carry much heavier weapons.