Ka-226 and Ansat-U

Werewolf wrote:

The certification will come 2016 reports say

That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.

Austin wrote:

TOT is just a name for local lic manuf and maintenance , its does not mean manufacturer will transfer each and every technology  but would transfer knowledge to maintain it here with local manufacturing.

Yes they might just have a seperate deal with Safran

There are certain levels of ToT. 100% as you suggested would mean complete transfer of all data and materials necessary for manufacture and operation. Basically moving the whole production unit, or buying it outright. A screw driver job isn't ToT, that is called an offset.

Vlad, do you seriously think that neither countries, with their specialists didn't think of this before hand?

An engine may not have been funded for a while, but guess what? Funding is going on now for import substitution.

Vladimir79 wrote:

GarryB wrote:The french have no arms embargo against India...

The EU has an arms embargo... France is part of the EU.

Not against India it doesn't, hence the Rafale.

They can sell the engines if so, and I bet you they have already agreed to it hence the agreement from India.

Vladimir79 wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

The certification will come 2016 reports say

That engine has been sitting on the bench unfunded since 2005. The state was complacent relying on imports not funding domestic engines, much less the plants to build them.

And the article is from 2013, which goes beyond your statement of 2005 being unfunded.  If it was unfunded since then, in 2013, they wouldn't have said it will pass certification....

Edit: According to Wiki, the VK-800 engines program restarted in 2005, and in 2007 showcased a prototype that flew various hours. So program is still ongoing and it exists. They do not need a different plant to produce them as they can be built in the same plant as the VK-2500 engine which is being built....in Russia.

http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2015/04/01/333821.html

So in 2015 it was certified for French engines, so best bet is that the engines don't fall under embargo.  As well, it does mention that work is still ongoing for VK-800 engines for the helicopter.

But, some say that the VK-800 is too heavy/powerful for such a light helicopter. The VK-800 is about 800HP at 142kg while the French engine is 450hp at 78kg.

That the Snecma engine is already certified and ready to go helps, it doesn't require any interaction of RusHelo and Safran,
whatever Indian company is involved in assembly can just order the engines directly, or even IAF/Army can order them separately.

VK-800 is obviously a very different class of engine, if anything I would think it would enable a single engined version,
slightly less power, but also slightly less weight than 2x Snecmas (+supporting structure and systems),
and if the power/weight ratio still isn't quite as nice, then the single engine will be good for low-altitude while
2xSnecmas is nice for high altitude but less economical/ not particularly needed for everything else.

Anybody know how India side will be represented in JV? HAL? Private?

Russia’s offer to build Kamov Ka-226T helicopters under the ‘Make in India’ initiative also gets nod .

Indian Govt has cleared is the Russian proposal to assemble advance twin engine Kamov helicopters . Sources said that 200 light utility helicopter Kamov Ka-226T would be manufactured in India under Make in India initiative, adding that the cost and other modalities would be worked out later.

sepheronx wrote:Vlad, do you seriously think that neither countries, with their specialists didn't think of this before hand?

An engine may not have been funded for a while, but guess what? Funding is going on now for import substitution.

They probably thought Proglio was going to become Chairman of Thales and have the clout to get a deal through, but he quit as he refused to step down from RusAtom. The French are clearly not playing our game now. As India intends to use Ka-226T as a military platform, it is barred from meeting civilian use exemption of the embargo. The only way out is to have Safran do direct sale to India with a separate contract.

sepheronx wrote:
Not against India it doesn't, hence the Rafale.

They can sell the engines if so, and I bet you they have already agreed to it hence the agreement from India.

uhm...

And the article is from 2013, which goes beyond your statement of 2005 being unfunded.  If it was unfunded since then, in 2013, they wouldn't have said it will pass certification....

Edit: According to Wiki, the VK-800 engines program restarted in 2005, and in 2007 showcased a prototype that flew various hours.  So program is still ongoing and it exists.  They do not need a different plant to produce them as they can be built in the same plant as the VK-2500 engine which is being built....in Russia.

Actually, it hasn't been off the bench. We talking VK-800V, not 800.

It was said VK-800V was tested. Now mind you, it is apparently too powerful for the Ka-226, compared to the french engines.

I trust the idea that they know what they are doing, especially in selling a product. I imagine it will end up as sale of the helicopter and they purchase a separate contract for engines from France. Or India invests in co-development of the VK-800V engines.

How many Ka-226 has beeen ordered by All branches of Russian Military and Private companies so far ?

Well all this time during tender(s) with no sanctions on Russia, India was assessing it with French engines.
Klimov does list VK-800 as "500-800hp" so at the lower end it is just a perfect replacement.
Obviously in Ansat or whatever 800hp or more is going to be the goal.

I doubt the Ka-226T is as bad the article claims to be

The Indian Light Utility Helicopter Procurement: where does the HAL LUH stand?

Moscow. May 22. Interfax-AVN - New helicopter unit is formed as a part of 6991-th Russian Air Force Base deployed at Chkalovsky airfield near Moscow, said on Friday "Interfax-AVN" in the helicopter industry.

      "The new squadron will be armed with 12 Ka-226B. Currently 10 machines have already been delivered," - said the agency interlocutor.
      According to him, "the personnel of the squadron passed retraining on new equipment."
      6991 Air Base - is the successor to the aircraft division of special purpose. Its aircraft recently completed the task of evacuating Russians from civil war-torn Yemen.

http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=377242

Also...

Russian Helicopters Ka-226T receives IAC AR certification
http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersKa226TreceivesIACARcertification

Russian Helicopters' Ansat and Ka-226T enter the Russian commercial market
http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersAnsatandKa226TentertheRussiancommercialmar

Austin wrote:I doubt the Ka-226T is as bad the article claims to be

The Indian Light Utility Helicopter Procurement: where does the HAL LUH stand?

I'm no expert, but that post sounds like a hatchet job on the Ka-226, considering it outperformed it's rivals in the original tests and IMO is more versatile

The Ka-226T underwent testing in India as part of the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter (RSH) acquisition programme, which was cancelled by the Indian authorities in 2014. The helicopter out-performed its Western counterparts during flights in India's hot conditions and mountainous areas. The Ka-226T was demonstrated at Aero India 2015 exhibition held in Bangalore, India.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ka-226t-multi-mission-helicopter/

Cyberspec wrote:

Moscow. May 22. Interfax-AVN - New helicopter unit is formed as a part of 6991-th Russian Air Force Base deployed at Chkalovsky airfield near Moscow, said on Friday "Interfax-AVN" in the helicopter industry.

      "The new squadron will be armed with 12 Ka-226B. Currently 10 machines have already been delivered," - said the agency interlocutor.
      According to him, "the personnel of the squadron passed retraining on new equipment."
      6991 Air Base - is the successor to the aircraft division of special purpose. Its aircraft recently completed the task of evacuating Russians from civil war-torn Yemen.

http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=377242

Also...

Russian Helicopters Ka-226T receives IAC AR certification
http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersKa226TreceivesIACARcertification

Russian Helicopters' Ansat and Ka-226T enter the Russian commercial market
http://www.verticalmag.com/news/article/RussianHelicoptersAnsatandKa226TentertheRussiancommercialmar

Austin wrote:I doubt the Ka-226T is as bad the article claims to be

The Indian Light Utility Helicopter Procurement: where does the HAL LUH stand?

I'm no expert, but that post sounds like a hatchet job on the Ka-226, considering it outperformed it's rivals in the original tests and IMO is more versatile

The Ka-226T underwent testing in India as part of the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter (RSH) acquisition programme, which was cancelled by the Indian authorities in 2014. The helicopter out-performed its Western counterparts during flights in India's hot conditions and mountainous areas. The Ka-226T was demonstrated at Aero India 2015 exhibition held in Bangalore, India.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ka-226t-multi-mission-helicopter/

Because this is one of the indians that is a die hard inidian patriot paired with Pro USA crap, all his "analysis" are tailored in advances to have an outcome favored for a specific aircraft. That guy has so much of genuine intentions of a fair comperision and evaluation like a lobbyist for Monsanto.

"Technodynamics" develops engines for light helicopters

Holding "Τechnodynamics" State Corporation "Rostec" on May 20, 2016 during the exhibition Helirussia-2016 announced the start of work on the family of the main engines for the TD-700 light helicopters in Moscow. They are expected to replace the existing engines manufactured by Pratt & Whitney and Turbomeca helicopter "ANSAT" and Ka-226T.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1914658.html

If this is the case, then these engines may end up what is needed for Ka-60?

sepheronx wrote:If this is the case, then these engines may end up what is needed for Ka-60?

Nope. These are too small and don't create enough power for the Ka-60.
Try again.

They would need something like VK-1700 series of engines, but way to go to market such product which they have showed little interest to research and produce such product yet. Slim market share for such engines Klimov has that is why they are not gambling on such class of helicopters.