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Su-30 for Russian Air Force

a89

a89: Posts : 105
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Location : Oxfordshire

Post n°91

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

a89 Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:59 pm

IRBIS has:

- more detection range than any other radar in the world
- much better search angels than any other radar in the world

What is this based on?

Of course it is feasible Irkut could have converted to single seat production, but let me remind you the state of things in the 90s. Nobody had time or funds to change the tooling and production line, they had hard enough time modernizing Su-30 and producing it in time. Add to that conflict with Sukohi and KNAAPO....it would not have been easy, nor useful at all. Su-30 family was the logical path for export.

I remember reading a while ago that KnAAPO and and IAPO had a non written agreement. The former would produce the single seater variants and the latter the two seaters. This was broken when KnAAPO signed a contract with China for Su-30MK.

Kinda hard to say that Su-35 is a failure because of previous Flanker success no? Because if it is better than previous flankers, then it should sell better than these previous flankers. It is a great fighter imo, but it just seems odd about its failure in the international market. Yet, Su-30 still sells quite well, even with its lack capabilities compared to Su-35. Seems odd, since it is supposed to be the better plane.

Circumstances are different. Major clients that could be interested already operate Su-30. The logical thing to do would be to upgrade these and not acquire Su-35.

The Russian Military certainly seem to be buying the Su-30s as trainers and for other missions where two crew would be useful as there is no two seat Su-35.

The advantage of buying of Su-30MKI versions is that they have beel built in large quantities, thus price is lower.

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8754
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Post n°92

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

sepheronx Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:57 am

It is no secret that Irbis has a 350-400km track range against a tanker sized aircraft and around 300+ km for a fighter sized aircraft, making it have significantly large track range compared to any other fighter based radar (I read that APG-79 had something like 200+ km track range for fighter sized targets). But in order to have such a large track range, it produces a lot of power output, which can be spotted quite early by enemy aircraft sensors. Maybe quicker than the Irbis radar would be able to spot it, as with most of these jets with such sensors, have LO RCS.

It would have been interesting to see Irkutsk offer Russia a comparable jet to the Su-35S for less, as the airframe already used in high production would allow costs to be down for production, so Russia could have afforded to purchase more of these jets in order to keep numbers up and have a good work around until PAK FA comes in numbers.

Like guy above me said, due to Su-30 being already in numbers, it is cheaper to upgrade them than purchase Su-35. As well, newer Su-30's would be cheaper than Su-35 and upgrading them to newer standard with newer radar would probably be equally cheaper and just as good.

TR1

TR1: Posts : 5435
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Post n°93

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

TR1 Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:10 am

If Irkut made a single seat Su-30, it would NOT have cost less, since they would have needed to make a new production line, new tooling, a whole new testing and trials period, etc etc, entirely defeating the purpose.
Buying Su-30SM can be defended, but a single seat Irkut Flanker is counterproductive.

Irkut is phasing out Flanker production by the end of the decade in any case, making a new airframe does not make sense.

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8754
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Post n°94

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

sepheronx Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:47 am

TR1 wrote:If Irkut made a single seat Su-30, it would NOT have cost less, since they would have needed to make a new production line, new tooling, a whole new testing and trials period, etc etc, entirely defeating the purpose.
Buying Su-30SM can be defended, but a single seat Irkut Flanker is counterproductive.

Irkut is phasing out Flanker production by the end of the decade in any case, making a new airframe does not make sense.

So besides Yak-130, they are dropping out of the fighter market? That would suck. Would be interesting to see what they could come up with.

TR1

TR1: Posts : 5435
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Post n°95

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

TR1 Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:56 am

They are moving on to big, lucrative commercial contracts (MS-21 in particular) but Yak-130 will remain in production due to large demand until at least 2020. The line was moved from Sokol already, they won't be moving it again.
Irkut already moved Be-200 production to focus on the bigger fish.

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8754
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Post n°96

Why Irkutsk never presented a single seat variant of Su-30MKI?

sepheronx Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:12 am

TR1 wrote:They are moving on to big, lucrative commercial contracts (MS-21 in particular) but Yak-130 will remain in production due to large demand until at least 2020. The line was moved from Sokol already, they won't be moving it again.
Irkut already moved Be-200 production to focus on the bigger fish.

Yak-130 has huge potential on export and so far, it does look pretty good, and same with domestic as well. They just need to push it out more, as I bet many african countries would be quite happy to have it. And then there is Brazil with the potential of getting it as well, especially if Brazil is part of the deal in using their own radar for it. I cannot see them shutting down or moving production of Yak-130 after 2020.

MS-21 has lots of potential, but the civil market is flooded with foreign jets and Russian commercial jets seem to get bad wrap, even though they are good (Tu-204 has lots of potential but rarely sold), so Irkutsk shouldn't put all their eggs into one basket, especially since that the military market is still very lucrative.

TR1

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Post n°97

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

TR1 Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:38 am

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/583726.html

Unexpected. In December 2012 a contract was signed with Sukhoi for delivery of 16 Su-30M2 to the RuAF, in 2013-2015.

medo

medo: Posts : 4343
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Post n°98

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

medo Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:22 pm

TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/583726.html

Unexpected. In December 2012 a contract was signed with Sukhoi for delivery of 16 Su-30M2 to the RuAF, in 2013-2015.

I think 16 Su-30M2 will be enough for 96 Su-35 fleet to serve as trainers (2 per squadron). This could just confirm, that Su-30SM will form independent squadrons. Are all those 4 existing Su-30M2 serve in Far East?

George1

George1: Posts : 18456
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Post n°99

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

George1 Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:58 pm

medo wrote:

TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/583726.html

Unexpected. In December 2012 a contract was signed with Sukhoi for delivery of 16 Su-30M2 to the RuAF, in 2013-2015.

I think 16 Su-30M2 will be enough for 96 Su-35 fleet to serve as trainers (2 per squadron). This could just confirm, that Su-30SM will form independent squadrons. Are all those 4 existing Su-30M2 serve in Far East?

can we assure this from some other source?

mack8

mack8: Posts : 1039
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Post n°100

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

mack8 Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:28 am

Someone at paralay.com said that, in addition to the Bars-R radar (i assume R is for Rossii), the Su-30SM has Izd.99SM aka Izd. 99M2 or AL-31FM2 engines of 14,000kgf thrust. Is that accurate info, is it confirmed ? (imo i always thought MKI type aircraft could use more power, they are heavy aircraft and a little draggier than a KnAAZ Su-30MK f.e.)

On another note, something that puzzled me, the Su-30SM bort 54, is it really the third SM, or is it 01 or 02 with the new bort ?

Thank you.

Viktor

Viktor: Posts : 5796
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Post n°101

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

Viktor Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:05 am

New Su-30SM in the sky.

Su-30 for Russian Air Force - Page 5 Xneypc

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/38903/

kopyo-21

kopyo-21: Posts : 203
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Join date : 2013-08-21
Location : Bangkok - Thailand

Post n°102

Re: Su-30 for Russian Air Force

kopyo-21 Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:03 am

In the take-off magazine No. 18 Nov 2010, Yuri Bely, GM of Tikhomirov-NIIP , said that "Just a fortnight ago, in late September, there was the first successful launch of an upgraded air-to-air missile by a Su-27SM3 prototype, with the missile hitting its target. To extend the missile’s range, we had upgraded the antenna, transmitter and RF update channel of the Su-27’s organic radar".

Do they upgrade the existing N001-01A twist-cassergainian antenna or replace it by new one (new twist-cassergainian or even Pero PESA anteena). If they upgrade the exiting antenna so what components / how are they upgraded? Thank you.