Russian Gun Artillery Thread

It looks too ugly..

The analysis of the data offered by the Military Balance 2016 for Russia, has one of its weakest points in the data refered to a number of old towed artillery systems that are not in active service.

It is definitely proved by the fact of an interesting coincidence.

According to the following link, published in february of 2008, armyrecognition.com offers the same data for many systems than The Military Balance 2016:

http://armyrecognition.com/russie/russie_armee_russe_forces_terrestres_equipements_militaires_vehicules_blindes_information_descriptio.html#artillery

Canon- obusier tracté
D-44 85mm ?
D-30 122mm (Tracté) 4,600 (active)
D-74 122mm (Tracté) ?
M-30 M-1938 122mm (Tracté) 3,750 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/122-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%86%D0%B0_1938_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0_(%D0%9C-30)#.D0.9D.D0.B0_.D0.B2.D0.BE.D0.BE.D1.80.D1.83.D0.B6.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B8
M-46 130mm (Tracté) 650 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/130-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%9C-46#.D0.9D.D0.B0_.D0.B2.D0.BE.D0.BE.D1.80.D1.83.D0.B6.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B8
2A36 152mm (Tracté) 1,100 (active)
2A65 152mm (Tracté) 750 (active)
D-1 152mm ? (see M-1943, is the same)
D-20 152mm (Tracté) 1,075 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/152-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0_%D0%94-20#.D0.AD.D0.BA.D1.81.D0.BF.D0.BB.D1.83.D0.B0.D1.82.D0.B0.D0.BD.D1.82.D1.8B
M-1943 152mm (Tracté) 700 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/152-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%86%D0%B0_1943_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0_(%D0%94-1)#.D0.9D.D0.B0_.D0.B2.D0.BE.D0.BE.D1.80.D1.83.D0.B6.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B8
ML-20 M-1937 152mm (Tracté) 100 https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=152-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%86%D0%B0_1937_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0_(%D0%9C%D0%9B-20)&stable=0&redirect=no
B-4M 203mm (Tracté) 40 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/203-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0_%D0%91-4%D0%9C#.D0.9D.D0.B0_.D0.B2.D0.BE.D0.BE.D1.80.D1.83.D0.B6.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B8

Mortier
2B16 Nona-K 120mm ? (active)
2S9 Nona-S 120mm ? (self propelled active)
2S12 120mm 920 (active)
PM-38 120mm 900
M-160 300mm 300 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/160-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%86%D0%B0_1949_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0_(%D0%9C-160)#.D0.9E.D0.BF.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B0.D1.82.D0.BE.D1.80.D1.8B
2S4 240mm self-propelled mortar 430 (self propelled active)

After the data of armirecognition.com of 2008 is included the link to the Russian wikipedia, where it is possible to see in the part of the operators, the data offered by The Military Balance 2016.

I do not know who is the primary source. I would not rule out to be The Military Balance (it is easy to see in their reports of the 2008 or 2007), but it would mean they have been providing the same data for these systems for almost 10 years without updates, and with an strong decommission wave between 2010 and 2013. These systems are from the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. This is the weakest part of their data.

GarryB wrote:Driving range of the truck. not range of the gun.

I know, since there is no 120 mm gun-launched cruise missile

2S36 is being the notation used for the BMD-4M based Zauralets-D artillery system.

Yes, 300mm for the M-160 is a mistake in the source of origin of the data.

I do not think all the types of ammunition of 122mm would be available for export. Some maybe, but the most advanced maybe for own use only. They will not be wasted unnecessarily, and to use them Russia needs a number of 2S1, when required. I tend to think that the 2S1 (and as consequence the 122mm caliber) can remain in service with Russia between 10 and 20 years. Maybe more.

The first replacement in the Russian armed forces will be likely the replacement of the low numbers still active of towed artillery. This even can be done before the procurement of new units of artillery systems based on the new platforms (except the 2S35), with the stored units of self propelled vehicles. Likely this decade.

Later I tend to think that the less strong systems would be the 2S9 and 2S23, and it can make them the first systems replaced. Surely in the next decade.

Nice (however, there is a Msta in the first picture, not a Koalitsiya)  

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Russian artillery vehicles 2S35 and 2S19 to be equipped with communication systems for Arctic.

Russian armor, including latest modifications of 2S35 Coalition-SV and 2S19 MSTA-S self-propelled artillery guns will be equipped with advanced communications means capable of operating in the Arctic, said Director General of the Popov Gorkosvky Communications Equipment enterprise which produces the device Mikhail Gusev.


The enterprise is currently engaged in fulfilling the state defense order to equip Russian armor, including the latest one, with advanced communication complexes. "We have already reequipped and continue to equip the existing hardware: howitzers Coalition, Msta, Gvozdika, Tulip, Acacia, as well as the latest 2S35 Coalition-SV, 2S19 MSTA-S and BMD-4 with modern communication means. They are capable of operating at temperatures from minus 50 to plus 50 degrees also in conditions of the Arctic," he said.

Gusev stressed that the new communication complex is a fully domestic design of the Nizhny Novgorod enterprise which specializes in the production of such devices. "From the point of view of import replacement the unit is fully produced from made-in-Russia components. As for today its functional capabilities cover all the needs of mentioned arms of troops," he said.

The complex consists of a radio station and internal communications and commutation system which receives outside signal, topographic data and other necessary information for the crew during combat and allows them to communicate between themselves.

"The new design is distinguished by high functionality, reliability (service life of up to 25 years), minimal size and convenient interface. A tankee can connect with the radio station, field telephone and communicate with all crewmembers with one touch of a hand even in gloves," Gusev said adding the equipment was produced upon demand of domestic armor designers. He said his company production was worth 1 billion rubles last year of which 90 percent were state defense orders. This year the state defense order grew 25 percent.


Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russian_artillery_vehicles_2s35_and_2s19_to_be_equipped_with_communication_systems_for_arctic_10210161.html

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It is nice to see more arctic variants of more and more vehicles . Russia currently has two arctic brigades, the 80th (stationed at Alakurtti, Karelia) and the 200th (stationed at Pechenga, Murmansk region) Detached Motor Rifle Brigades, with a third being formed, and these brigades will surely to be equipped with these state of the art equipment, including arctic Msta and Koalitsiya howitzers.

I do not expect the 2S36 Zauralets-D based on the BMD-4M needs load of the weapon from outside.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/tsniitochmash_has_tested_its_new_fighting_module_for_zauralets-d_self-propelled_artillery_system_tass_10502166.html

There are not 2B16 Nona-K in the reserve, and the production finished in 1989.

eehnie wrote:I do not expect the 2S36 Zauralets-D based on the BMD-4M needs load of the weapon from outside

Please can you point out from where this information come from ?

franco wrote:SP Artillery Numbers
- includes Ground Forces, Naval Infantry and Coastal plus Airborne
- normal battalion has 18 firing pieces, rounded up to 20 to allow unit spares
- does not include training, reserve or storage pieces

2S1 - 340 (17 bns)
2S3 - 840 (42 bns)
2S4 - 8 (1 bn)
2S5 - 140 (7 bns)
2S7 - 12 (1 bn)
2S9 - 370 (16 bns + 7 btys)
2S19 - 600 (30 bns) last production received in 2014
2S23 - ~50 not sure if used as a bn mortar bty
2S34 - ~50 not sure if used as a bn mortar bty or replacing 2S1 bns
2S35 - 12 delivered this year, main production starts next year
A-222 - ~30 Berg 130mm Coastal Artillery, status not sure

Rocket Artillery Numbers
- broke down by caliber to include all types

122 - 980 (49 bns) at least 8-10 bns have upgraded Tornado-G
220 - ~200 ( 4 units of 24 and 8 units of 8 Uragan = 160 plus 5-15 units of 3 TOS-1A)
300 - 24 (2 brigades of 12 each)

SP Antitank Numbers
- part of the Artillery & Rocket Forces
- organized into companies of 9, rounded up to 10 to allow spares

BTR-RD - 120 (12 coys) AT-4/5
9P148 - 200 (20 coys) AT-5
9P149 - 960 (96 coys) AT-6
9P157 - ~50 (started production replacing the 9P149) AT-15
Tigr/Kornet - ~10 (just delivered, starting production) AT-14
2S25 - ~30 delivered, awaiting upgrading before resuming production

Towed Artillery

2A18 D-30 122mm field howitzer - 120 (bn of 12 for 4 abn div = 48 plus bty of 6 for 4 abn bde = 24 plus bty of 6 for 8 spetz bde = 48)
Nona-K 120mm gun/mortar - ~30 (maybe used in place of D-30's in some Spetz bdes)
MT-12 Rapira 100mm gun - 270 (bty of 6 for 35 MR bdes plus bty of 6 for 10 arty bdes)
2A36 152mm field gun - 100-120 (5-6 bn of 18 in 18th MG div (2) and Coastal Artillery bdes)
2A65 152mm field howitzer - 160-200 (8-10 bn of 18 in Artillery bdes)

Notes - you would expect the 100mm MT-12 AT gun to be obsolete for destroying tanks but the Russian artillery keeps it as an artillery "sniper" weapon

Very interesting data to remember, posted by Franco more than 1 year ago (in the page 2 of this topic). In this quote I unified the data of two posts.

It would be very interesting some update to confirm the trends of the last years and to see new trends.

Report from the artillery factory № 9

Rare video footage of one of the key enterprises of the Russian military-industrial complex - JSC "Zavod № 9" (Ekaterinburg, in the Soviet period was a "special production" "Uralmash", and now is a part of JSC "Scientific and Production Corporation" Uralvagonzavod "name F . Dzerzhinsky ")



http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2235448.html

Some reports say that the Border Service of the FSB has some units of 2S1 (12 units) and D-30 (20 units) both of 122mm.

I tend to think that these weapons are over what would be necessary in the security forces. In overall terms the 122mm caliber is something that in my view should be used exclusively by the Russian Armed Forces. To be in non-military forces seems a downgrade of this warfare to me, and makes more difficult the standardization. The trend that I would expect (if has not been done at this point) for this caliber and these weapons is to be out of the Russian security forces. In the case of the 2S1 a transfer to the Russian Armed Forces. In the case of the D-30 can also go as aid to third contries.

Also is reported the presence of some 2S9 (18 units). While I'm not sure if the Russian security forces would need really self propelled artillery, in case of real need this would be the right weapon and the right caliber to have (in my opinion). They have also bigger amounts of other 120mm mortars of portable/man-portable size like the 2S12.

eehnie wrote:
It is very interesting data.

The fact that the crew is out, unprotected while firing, makes this new system some step back the 2S1, 2S34, 2S36, and even of the 2S23 and 2S9, on safety of the crew. It makes unlikely the adoption of this system by the Russian Armed Forces. I do not think it would meet the current Russian requirements on safety of the crew.

Otherwise this system would be far ahead of towed artillery.

i agree, other countries have managed to have their systems operate from inside and self loaders etc, i think the Serbs version both the Sora 122mm and the Nora B-52 are both great systems. Russia is a bit behind when it comes to wheeled SP artillery yes they produced the  A-222 Bereg 130mm, but this was put on such a heavy chassis making the system weight 43.7 tons, which makes it 10.7 tons heavier than the heaviest version of Nora B-52, and even 1.7 tons heavier than 2S19 Msta-S which is armoured and carrying a bigger gun. I really don't know why Russia choose the MAZ 543 to mount a 130mm gun, you would think with all the trucks, and surplus armoured vehicles they could have mounted it on something else which would be lighter, such as the following:

KamAZ-6350/6560 8x8 (used for Panstir and Tornado MRLS)
Ural-5323 8x8
ZIL-135 (used for FROG-7)
BAZ-5937/6944/6950 (used for OSA)
BTR-80
BTR-70
BTR-60

Analysis : Russian defense industry promotes modern artillery systems on global military market.

Despite latest defense hardware developments, artillery that was introduced to armies several centuries ago remains 'the god of war' and the backbone of land forces. It drastically facilitates the accomplishing of almost all combat tasks. Therefore, artillery and rocket artillery systems are supposed to be in high demand in the years to come.


Russia`s Rosoboronexport company offers proven, reliable, and combat effective hardware of the aforementioned types to potential foreign customers on the global arms market.

The 300 mm Smerch (Whirlwind) multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) is one of the most powerful rocket artillery platform in the world. The system is intended for engaging enemy`s manpower, soft-skin pieces of hardware, artillery units, helicopters on their landing sites, deployed air defense assets, air- and sea-borne assault teams, command-and-control (C2) posts, etc. The launch vehicle (LV) features an automated laying/fire control system that allows establishing of information and technical interface between the LV and the C2 post; transmitting/receiving of information in automatic mode at high speeds and its visual displaying on the computer screen; laying of the launching tubes from inside the crew cabin; determining of LV position through the medium of satellite navigation hardware.

The Smerch MLRS system can use rockets equipped with several types of warheads, including fragmentation sub-munition, anti-tank (AT) mine cluster, high-explosive fragmentation (HE-Frag), thermobaric, HE penetrating, shaped-charged fragmentation, and sensor-fuzed sub-munitions ones. According to the specifications, Smerch has a caliber of 300 mm, a firing range of 25-90 km, a full salvo time of 40 seconds, a time required to change the LV from travel to combat position (and vice versa) of 3 minutes, a maximum road speed of 60 km/h, a cruising range of 850 km, a full weight of 43,700 kg, and a crew of three servicemen. The LV is armed with 12 launching tubes. Rosoboronexport also offers a lightened truck-based variant of the Smerch system that features six launching tubes. It features the similar specifications, while having a full salvo time of 20 seconds, a maximum road speed of 90 km/h, a cruising range of 1,000 km, a full weight of 23,570 kg or 24,650 kg (depending on the type of container), and a crew of two servicemen. The presence of two modifications of the Smerch MLRS systems in the Rosoboronexport's catalogue allows meeting almost all types of requirements for modern rocket artillery.


The company also offers the proven and reliable 122 mm Grad MLRS system that is believed to be one the most effective rocket weapons in the world. Grad is intended for engaging enemy`s manpower, soft-skin targets, light armoured vehicles, artillery/rocket artillery/mortar batteries, C2 posts, ammunition depots, etc.

The Grad LV features an automated laying and fire control system that allows firing from an unsurveyed position; laying of the launching tubes from inside the crew cabin and without using the aiming points; reducing of time of staying on firing position; preparing initial firing data. According to Rosoboronexport`s catalogue, Grad has a maximum firing range of 40 km, a full salvo time of 20 seconds, a full weight of 15,020 kg, and a crew of two servicemen. The system features 40 launching tubes. Grad can be based on the Ural wheeled trucks.


The company also pays a significant attention to the promoting of Russian-originated self-propelled artillery on the global arms market. The 152 mm Msta-S self-propelled gun (SPG) remains the central piece of Rosoboronexport`s SP barrel artillery portfolio. The SPG features an automated laying and fire control system, that allows displaying the information for vehicle`s crew, processing the individual corrections introduced by commander, storing the received information in memory, calculating initial firing data in indirect firing mode, etc. Msta-S is intended for the engaging of enemy`s manpower, weapon systems, and other types military hardware. According to the specifications, the SPG has a firing range of 6-29 km, an ammunition load of 50 rounds, a firing rate of 8 rounds per minute, an elevation angle between -3° and +68°, a traverse angle of 360°, a maximum speed of 60 km/h, a cruising range of 500 km, a weight of 42 t, and a crew of five servicemen. Msta-S can cross a trench of 2.8 m and a vertical obstacle of 0.5 m.

Rosoboronexport also offers the upgraded Akatsiya SPG to potential foreign customers. The self-propelled gun is equipped with an automated laying and fire control system. Akatsiya is intended for engaging enemy`s manpower and military hardware. According to the specifications, the SPG has a firing range of 4.2-20.5 km, a firing rate of 4 rounds per minute, an elevation angle between -4° and +60°, a traverse angle of 360°, an ammunition load of 46 rounds, a weight of 27.5 t, and a crew of four servicemen.


The 2S31 Vena SPG is intended for engaging enemy`s manpower, hardware, C2 posts, and armoured vehicles. The self-propelled gun allow quick fire concentration to engage selected targets. Vena features a high level of the gun automation, enhanced performance of the integrated equipment, and the increased reliability of communications systems.

The 2S31 SPG is equipped with a 120 mm gun, HE rounds of which do not fall short of their 122 mm or 152 mm analogues in terms of effective area. The gun also features a high accuracy of fire. According to the specifications, Vena has a firing range of 0.4-13 km, a firing rate of eight to 10 rounds per minute, an ammunition load of 70 rounds, an elevation angle between -4° and +80°, a traverse angle of 360°, a maximum speed of 70 km/h, a cruising range of 600 km, a weight of 19.5 t, and a crew of four servicemen. In initial configuration, the SPG is based on the chassis of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle (IFV).


Rosoboronexport offers the 120 mm Nona-SVK SPG to potential foreign customers. It is designed to destroy and suppress enemy`s manpower, artillery and mortar batteries, armoured targets, C2 posts, etc. The system features a 120 mm breech-loading rifled gun installed in a welded turret that is mounted on the chassis of the BTR-80 vehicle. It can deliver both direct and direct fire by artillery projectiles and mortar shells. According to the specifications, Nona-SVK has a firing range of 0.48-12.5 km, a firing rate of 10 rounds per minute, an elevation angle between -4° and +80°, an ammunition load of 30 rounds, a weight of 14.5 t, and a crew of four servicemen.

Russia`s company promotes a range of towed artillery platforms that have retained their combat effectiveness in the SPG and MLRS era. Towed gun seems to be a relatively inexpensive and cost-effective approach to the increasing of infantry units` firepower capabilities.


The 122 mm D-30A howitzeris an updated variant of the world-known D-30. The D-30A is intended for destroying and suppressing of enemy`s manpower, hardware, engineering installations, engaging enemy`s artillery and mechanized units, and breaching the minefields and barbed wire-protected areas.

The howitzer is complemented by a three-frame carriage that enables all-around firing. According to the specifications, D-30A has a firing range of 4-15.3 km, a firing rate of six to eight rounds per minute, an elevation angle between -7° and +70°, a traverse angle of 360°, a weight of 3,200 kg (in combat position), and a crew of six servicemen.


Rosoboronexport offers the 120 mm Nona-K towed gun that is intended for engaging of enemy`s manpower and military hardware in the nearest tactical area. The combined breech-loading rifled gun can deliver both direct and indirect fire. It can fire both artillery projectiles and mortar shells. The gun`s barrel features a muzzle brake, unlike the self-propelled variant. According to the specifications, the Nona-K towed gun has a maximum firing range of 8.8 km (for artillery projectiles) or 7.1 km (for mortar shells), an elevation angle between -10° and +80°, a traverse angle between -30° and +30°, a firing rate of eight rounds per minute, an ammunition load of 60 rounds, a weight of 1.2 t, and a crew of five servicemen. It can be towed by a UAZ-469 all-terrain car or similar utility vehicles.

Russia`s company also promotes the Nona-M1 towed rifled semi-automatic breech-loading mortar. It is intended for engaging enemy`s manpower, materiel, mortar batteries, engineering installations and for providing of fire support to motorized rifle units. The mortar can be dismantled into four pieces for comfortable carrying or installation on various vehicles. According to the specifications, the Nona-M1 mortar has a caliber of 120 mm, a firing range of 450-12,800 m, a maximum firing rate of nine (for artillery projectiles) or 11 (for mortar shells) rounds per minute, a weight of 507 kg, and a crew of five servicemen.


Rosoboronexport`s towed mortars portfolio also includes the 120 mm Sani system. It is intended for engaging of enemy`s manpower and military equipment. According to the specifications, the Sani mortar has a firing range of 480-7,100 m, a maximum firing rate of 10 rounds per minute, an elevation angle between 45° and 80°, a traverse angle between -5° and +5° (without bipod relocation) and of 360° (with bipod relocation), a weight of 230 kg (in combat position), and a crew of five servicemen.


The company also offers the 82 mm Podnos muzzle-loaded mortar. It is designed to engage enemy`s manpower and materiel. According to the specifications, the Podnos mortar has a firing range of 0.08-4.02 km, a firing rate of 24 rounds per minute, an elevation angle between 45°and 85°, a traverse angle of 8° (without bipod relocation) and of 360° (with bipod relocation), a weight of 42.6 kg (in combat position), and a crew of five servicemen.


Rosoboronexport promotes the 125 mm Sprut-SD self-propelled anti-tank gun (SPATG). It is intended for destroying of enemy`s tanks, SPGs, armoured personnel carriers (APC), and other mobile and static targets 2S25 Sprut-SD 125mm tracked armoured self-propelled anti-tank gun.

Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/analysis_russian_defense_industry_promotes_modern_artillery_systems_on_global_military_market_11312165.html

i am surprised they aren't trying to sell the following: upgraded 2S3, 2A65 "Msta-B towed 152mm, and the 2A36 Giatsint-B 152mm,  and also push the 2S5 Giatsint-S to try and clear stocks of this, i am sure Iraq would probably buy these it wasn't so long ago they bought     D-20 from Russia. The 2S1 is also pretty handy SP artillery and easy to maintain. They could look to clear BM-21 stocks.

d_taddei2 wrote:i am surprised they aren't trying to sell the following: upgraded 2S3, 2A65 "Msta-B towed 152mm, and the 2A36 Giatsint-B 152mm,  and also push the 2S5 Giatsint-S to try and clear stocks of this, i am sure Iraq would probably buy these it wasn't so long ago they bought     D-20 from Russia. The 2S1 is also pretty handy SP artillery and easy to maintain. They could look to clear BM-21 stocks.

Why would you like to see Russia selling these, if Russia has still less modern and less powerful artillery?

2B9, ZU-23-2, (M)T-12, 2B16 and D-30 should go first. Russia has several thousands of (M)T-12 and D-30.

82-mm mortar carrier 2S41

With English subtitles, the KOALITSYA program on Voyenaya Priomka:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5b8_1460261581

George1 wrote:82-mm mortar carrier 2S41

Very interesting!
And what is the upper left one?