UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why is it that Russia can create the software to coordinate a swarm of maneuverable sea skimming supersonic AShMs in the 80s but its still impossible to create the software for a UAV to drop and LGB or shoot a kornet? Why could it create armed tank drones but not an armed UAV?

and where Russia would use it? now perhaps in Syria and besides? US and West in general bombs civilians and sometimes even terrorists. But so far it was not priority for Russia. Yes there ar e lost of articles now about armed drones for bombing and reconnaissance . No fighter ones yet though

Russia concentrated it´s efforts on small drones, because they are cheaper to develop and produce. And the wanted to make the reconnaissance for there artillery better. Remember, the russian army got much more artillery than NAZO.

Gunship is also right. Predator/Reaper are mostly for the bombing of weddings/funerals/kindergartens/schools. A few years ago one guy that they are high-tech weapons for wars against head hunters. Mostly useless in a modern war with a enemy that got a decent air defence.

Russia concentrated it´s efforts on small drones, because they are cheaper to develop and produce. And the wanted to make the reconnaissance for there artillery better. Remember, the russian army got much more artillery than NAZO.

I don't actually agree with this... they are certainly working on some heavy drones too and spending lots of money on them, but larger drones need more development time and more work and will likely be for very specific missions that they probably don't want people to know about.

Their needs are different from the US as well so it does make sense that they develop different systems with different capabilities and performances...

They developed drones to reduce their costs because sending manned aircraft to do the same mission costs a huge amount of money and ties up a lot of resources when you include support systems and aircraft as well.

The problem was that when their new drones found a target it would take time to scramble an attack force to deal with the target found, and often by the time a force was gathered and launched the target had moved on...

The solution was to put a maverick or Hellfire or light bomb on the drone so it could engage limited targets when it spotted them.

That meant when a target vehicle was being followed with a target in it and it met up with another vehicle with a high priority target the drone could take both vehicles out right there and then.... no waiting, no fuss.

Part of the issue is that these drones often operated deep in enemy territory with no friendly airfields or aircraft nearby so it was hours before a proper attack package could be sent... plenty of time for both targets to disappear.

For Russia operating a drone over Syria and having an Su-30 sitting on the airfield with a couple of dumb bombs and a few guided missiles ready to take off means perhaps 20 minutes from detection to target destruction... which is pretty good anyway.

If you want better time then an aircraft already in the air could engage the target quicker... but most of the targets they seemed to attack were HQs... lots of radio signals coming and going from a building... or a large ammo dump, or the staging area for an attack, or a column of enemy vehicles.

PapaDragon wrote:

Check ze engine



https://www.flyrotax.com/produkte/detail/rotax-912-is-isc-sport.html

And there seems to be some attack capability availabe

PapaDragon wrote:

Militarov wrote:And there seems to be some attack capability availabe

Combine that helidrone with Uran-9 and you have nice little mini horror show for entrenched enemy while you sip tea at safe distance. Drones tenderize, troops mop up...

Add some human snipers in the mix and oh boy


That fixed wing model in the back is something new, haven't seen it before, anyone have some info on it?

It is called KORSAR

Isos wrote:We saw what hapened to US drones near Iran or near Crimea. Not reliable technology for a conventional warefare. US trying to base their tactics, even military strategy, on it is stupid. Unless you make them totaly autonomus, they will ever be subject to hacking, jamming or destroyed by manned fighters. The worst scenario would be that they can be hacked by terrorist and used against civilians (USA are doing this too however) .

Russia is producing them to have the technology and to help their ground forces to have instanteneous picture of battlefield. They use small cheap drone so that they can send them for 30 minutes on the enemy line and coordinate attacks. They know they won't last more than that their.

Bigger drones have to fly high and can be spotted by any anti air system and destroyed easily before they reach their engagement zone, specially by front line pantsir, buk and Tanguskas or tor.

Is because drones were never intended to bypass the air defenses of any modern nation.. Drones major role
come into place because Terrorist hide in caves like afganistan, or underground bunkers like Syria whenever listen combat planes or attack helicopters near. So you send a combat plane...terrorist hide before you do anything and then bomb is wasted.. and terrorist go outside ,when no longer listen the combat plane.. With drones they use fans to make them silent.. and for very efficient continuous operation in air.. So with a drone you can have 24 hours or 36 hours non stop monitoring of terrorist positions , and do it stealthily. and when they show up , and leave their bunkers
and show their heads.. BOOM.. target the terrorist with the bombs in the attack drone..

So drones have its place.. it fills the gap between Combat planes and attack hellicopters , Drones are ideal for soft targets and to carry many mini bombs designed to soft targets..like terrorist. or pickup trucks.. for a fight against
NATO drones are useless.. they only can operate in zones there are no air defenses targeting them..

and drones also remove the risk of losing human live.. So drones have its place.. but their role is largely more
important against Rebels and or terrorist.. Against NATO Russia will be better with an A-50 or A-100 intellignece.

Drones can also save money ,in monitoring military bases from air non stop. If Russia had combat drones.. it will have made more harder for ISIS to hide.. and will wiped way more ISIS terrorist.

Vann7 wrote:
Is because drones were never intended to bypass the air defenses of any modern nation.. Drones major role
come into place because Terrorist hide in caves like afganistan, or underground bunkers like Syria whenever listen combat planes or attack helicopters near. So you send a combat plane...terrorist hide before you do anything and then bomb is wasted.. and terrorist go outside ,when no longer listen the combat plane.. With drones they use fans to make them silent.. and for very efficient continuous operation in air.. So with a drone you can have 24 hours or 36 hours non stop monitoring of terrorist positions , and do it stealthily. and when they show up , and leave their bunkers
and show their heads.. BOOM.. target the terrorist with the bombs in the attack drone..
So drones have its place.. it fills the gap between Combat planes and attack hellicopters , Drones are ideal for soft targets and to carry many mini bombs designed to soft targets..like terrorist. or pickup trucks.. for a fight against
NATO drones are useless.. they only can operate in zones there are no air defenses targeting them..
and drones also remove the risk of losing human live.. So drones have its place.. but their role is largely  more
important against Rebels and or terrorist.. Against NATO Russia will be better with an A-50 or A-100 intellignece.

Drones can also save money ,in monitoring military bases from air non stop. If Russia had combat drones.. it will have made more harder for ISIS to hide.. and will wiped way more ISIS terrorist.

Let's make a distinction there.
UAV have surely their role in all type of conflict, big or small.
Armed drones it's just another matter.
Against even a small sized air defence they are helpless, if not supported by conventional planes.
Same about anti-terrorism role, also in this case it's a question of scale.
In a case like Syria/Iraq you didn't face rag-tag groups of insurgents hiding in a cave of a mountain, both large groups capable of fielding hundreds of fighters.
When faced by air forces alone they would disperse and blend with local populace leaving just the minimum visible presence needed to keep civilians into submission.
Against such a structure. use of armed drones could just get some pinpricks here and there but nothing substantial.
Better use them just as a recon device in DIRECT support of ground forces, leaving rebels into get up and fight in the field, so getting all AF and artillery firepower against them or keep to stay hidden and be overrun by the advancing troops.

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Check ze engine



https://www.flyrotax.com/produkte/detail/rotax-912-is-isc-sport.html

That's twice the size of the Scheibel S-100 it draws upon.

It is literally and S-100 doubled up.

And do you know where Russia encountered the S-100? In Ukraine used by the OSCE mission.

https://112.international/conflict-in-eastern-ukraine/donetsk-militants-fired-at-osce-drone-25512.html

Good move from Russia, they went for a good engine.

Oh BTW the S-100 can be equipped with modest AA capability.

Korsar

New Russian coaxial rotor UAV by AO KumAPP during the Victory Day Parade rehearsal in Alabino.
Still taken from 0:58 mark in the video - https://youtu.be/rmzVsWT8Ke4 Re; earlier Tweet in this thread - those are 9M120 Ataka missile launch tubes, not 9M114.



https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/988885169779200021

KORSAR again.
The missile does not look like ATAKA to me.

It is maybe hermes missilee or a fuel tank.

One end looks slightly wider like Konkurs... but I don't think they would go for Konkurs over Ataka simply because wire guided is not as good as command guided for air launched missiles...

It is certainly not a fuel tank and I don't think it is Hermes either...

Fresh image of the Korsar UAV by KB Luch during the evening Victory Day Parade rehearsal in Moscow.With wings attached and 9M120 Ataka & 9M113(M) Konkurs missile launch tubes on the KamAZ trailer. Note the pixelated livery, plus one more Korsar in the background.



https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/989607378432790533

George1 wrote:Fresh image of the Korsar UAV by KB Luch during the evening Victory Day Parade rehearsal in Moscow.With wings attached and 9M120 Ataka & 9M113(M) Konkurs missile launch tubes on the KamAZ trailer. Note the pixelated livery, plus one more Korsar in the background.



https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/989607378432790533

What a load of Crap...  

I don't know what's wrong with Russia military , decision makers in using such crappy missiles
in drones.. For attack drones you need FAST missiles ,not incredibly slow ones.. warning your enemies
5 minutes before the missile hit their positions.  I have been watching Russian Attack Helicopters in Syria
their abysmally awful missiles , that takes an eternity to  get to the terrorist.. and how because they are guided manually through optics.. have seen not only how incredibly slow the missiles are.. but how painful and embarrasing
was after the pilot wasted 1 minute or 2 .. waiting for the missile reach a moving car with terrorist and then failing
to intercept it.. the pilot to need to fire another missile and wait even more.. It was like 4-5 minutes to kill a single pick
up truck in motion.

looked very amateurish.. and very weak.. having to fire 2 ataka missiles ,
and wait an eternity for just destroying a stupid pickup truck in motion of a terrorist in Syria.

speed...
ataka ,missiles   =  400 m/s
9M113 Konkurs  =  170 m/s

This is horribly slow , to hit anything..
in comparison..

Predator hellfire missile speed. = Mach 1.3

So literary the Predator missiles are up to 10x times the speed of the crap Russia drones use.
if your missiles are very slow.. it will give plenty of time for terrorist to do evasive maneuvers and hide..
if missiles are fast. terrorist will not have enough time to react. and hide.

speed...
ataka ,missiles   =  400 m/s
9M113 Konkurs  =  170 m/s

This is horribly slow , to hit anything..
in comparison..

Predator hellfire missile speed. = Mach 1.3

Mach 1.3 = 446 m/s which is almost the speed of ataka ...

Max. speed of Vikhr is 600 m/s. Ataka and Khrizantema ATGM have similar speed to Hellfire, all the rest western or russian ATGMs are subsonic.

AT-5 Konkurs ATGM have average speed of 200+ m/s and is in class with HOT and TOW ATGMs, which are wire guided. 170 m/s is for AT-4 Fagot ATGM.

Ataka and Khrizantema ATGMs have average speed of 400+ m/s and max. speed for Ataka is 550 m/s, so it is not that slow. Only ATGMs are faster than speed of sound with UAV armament, all other munition is subsonic, so Predator or Reaper ammunition is no faster than russian ammunition. It take similar time to reach target at 8 km for Ataka or Hellfire missile.

Vann7 wrote:

George1 wrote:Fresh image of the Korsar UAV by KB Luch during the evening Victory Day Parade rehearsal in Moscow.With wings attached and 9M120 Ataka & 9M113(M) Konkurs missile launch tubes on the KamAZ trailer. Note the pixelated livery, plus one more Korsar in the background.



https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/989607378432790533

What a load of Crap...  

I don't know what's wrong with Russia military , decision makers in using such crappy missiles
in drones.. For attack drones you need FAST missiles ,not incredibly slow ones.. warning your enemies
5 minutes before the missile hit their positions.  I have been watching Russian Attack Helicopters in Syria
their abysmally awful missiles , that takes an eternity to  get to the terrorist.. and how because they are guided manually through optics.. have seen not only how incredibly slow the missiles are.. but how painful and embarrasing
was after the pilot wasted 1 minute or 2 .. waiting for the missile reach a moving car with terrorist and then failing
to intercept it.. the pilot to need to fire another missile and wait even more.. It was like 4-5 minutes to kill a single pick
up truck in motion.

looked very amateurish.. and very weak.. having to fire 2 ataka missiles ,
and wait an eternity for just destroying a stupid pickup truck in motion of a terrorist in Syria.  

speed...
ataka ,missiles   =  400 m/s
9M113 Konkurs  =  170 m/s

This is horribly slow , to hit anything..
in comparison..

Predator hellfire missile speed. = Mach 1.3

So literary the Predator missiles are up to 10x times the speed of the crap Russia drones use.
if your missiles are very slow.. it will give plenty of time for terrorist to do evasive maneuvers and hide..
if missiles are fast. terrorist will not have enough time to react. and hide.

Holy S*** if this post doesn't get you ban for laughably delusional ignorance, I don't know what will.

George1 wrote:Fresh image of the Korsar UAV by KB Luch during the evening Victory Day Parade rehearsal in Moscow.With wings attached and 9M120 Ataka & 9M113(M) Konkurs missile launch tubes on the KamAZ trailer. Note the pixelated livery, plus one more Korsar in the background.



https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/989607378432790533

Is it remote controled ?

I'm really not fan of drones. They are not cheap at all and the cheapest trainer aircraft could be transformed in light reco anf attack to make their job.

Russia proved itself that it can easily jam small drones in Syria and the best that US has. Same with Israel intercepting one with a chopper ...

The bigger ones are easy targets for anti air systems. A yak 152 with reduced RCS and some missiles could do a far better job than those things. Pilots don't need an expensive training and the plane itself is cheap to operate.

The human factor can't be replaced in aviation.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

George1 wrote:Fresh image of the Korsar UAV by KB Luch during the evening Victory Day Parade rehearsal in Moscow.With wings attached and 9M120 Ataka & 9M113(M) Konkurs missile launch tubes on the KamAZ trailer. Note the pixelated livery, plus one more Korsar in the background.



https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/989607378432790533

What a load of Crap...  

I don't know what's wrong with Russia military , decision makers in using such crappy missiles
in drones.. For attack drones you need FAST missiles ,not incredibly slow ones.. warning your enemies
5 minutes before the missile hit their positions.  I have been watching Russian Attack Helicopters in Syria
their abysmally awful missiles , that takes an eternity to  get to the terrorist.. and how because they are guided manually through optics.. have seen not only how incredibly slow the missiles are.. but how painful and embarrasing
was after the pilot wasted 1 minute or 2 .. waiting for the missile reach a moving car with terrorist and then failing
to intercept it.. the pilot to need to fire another missile and wait even more.. It was like 4-5 minutes to kill a single pick
up truck in motion.

looked very amateurish.. and very weak.. having to fire 2 ataka missiles ,
and wait an eternity for just destroying a stupid pickup truck in motion of a terrorist in Syria.  

speed...
ataka ,missiles   =  400 m/s
9M113 Konkurs  =  170 m/s

This is horribly slow , to hit anything..
in comparison..

Predator hellfire missile speed. = Mach 1.3

So literary the Predator missiles are up to 10x times the speed of the crap Russia drones use.
if your missiles are very slow.. it will give plenty of time for terrorist to do evasive maneuvers and hide..
if missiles are fast. terrorist will not have enough time to react. and hide.

Holy S*** if this post doesn't get you ban for laughably delusional ignorance, I don't know what will.

I think he's kept around for comic relief. Literally nothing will get him banned, he's been spamming and trolling this board for YEARS!

Vann7 wrote:

What a load of Crap...  

I don't know what's wrong with Russia military , decision makers in using such crappy missiles
in drones.. For attack drones you need FAST missiles ,not incredibly slow ones.. warning your enemies
5 minutes before the missile hit their positions.  I have been watching Russian Attack Helicopters in Syria
their abysmally awful missiles , that takes an eternity to  get to the terrorist.. and how because they are guided manually through optics.. have seen not only how incredibly slow the missiles are.. but how painful and embarrasing
was after the pilot wasted 1 minute or 2 .. waiting for the missile reach a moving car with terrorist and then failing
to intercept it.. the pilot to need to fire another missile and wait even more.. It was like 4-5 minutes to kill a single pick
up truck in motion.

looked very amateurish.. and very weak.. having to fire 2 ataka missiles ,
and wait an eternity for just destroying a stupid pickup truck in motion of a terrorist in Syria.  

speed...
ataka ,missiles   =  400 m/s
9M113 Konkurs  =  170 m/s

This is horribly slow , to hit anything..
in comparison..

Predator hellfire missile speed. = Mach 1.3

So literary the Predator missiles are up to 10x times the speed of the crap Russia drones use.
if your missiles are very slow.. it will give plenty of time for terrorist to do evasive maneuvers and hide..
if missiles are fast. terrorist will not have enough time to react. and hide.

Okay.. now... go and do the math how many m/s is 1,3 Mach please. After you are done place finger firmly on your forehead and think, very, very carefully... why we all dislike you.