Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
type055 wrote:I heard some news from china website, china buy Pomornik-class Large LCAC from Ukraine， but this LCAC made in Crimea. russian says we need pay them, it make china confused ,cos Ukraine and russia both are our friends ~hard choice
par far wrote:What will Russia do of it does not get the Mistrals? Can Russia build its own?
sepheronx wrote:par far wrote:What will Russia do of it does not get the Mistrals? Can Russia build its own?
Yeah, why not? Just means they will have to spend more money to design one. Mistral is small compared to the aircraft carrier they did for India. Difference is, they will need a new design. BTW, part of the Mistral was made in Russia, and the other part was made in France, where the two parts combined.
As far as I know, Mistral contract is the compensation for France. After Soyuz had defeated Ariane in the Gallieo project, Russia agreed to buy French Mistral so that France can still gain some money after the defeat of Ariane.
Russia also want some information in the design of Mistral. But some people commented that Mistral belongs to the class of "2nd-rate ferry of Manche", not "1st-rate ferry of Baltics", therefore the techs in Mistral are not something very special.
That is the reason why these Russian Mistrals have much higher price than the original Mistrals. Actually, many Russian people had protested against the Mistral contract.
I was wondering what posters opinions are if the Mistrals are not delivered.
I know that the USSR had the Kherson design in the 1980's, but obviously things have moved on since then.
In the event of the Mistrals not being delivered, is there a Russian design out there that would be considered?
I'm assuming that various shipyards must have had designs that perhaps competed or were put forward originally before the Mistral was selected?
GarryB wrote:As far as I know, Mistral contract is the compensation for France. After Soyuz had defeated Ariane in the Gallieo project, Russia agreed to buy French Mistral so that France can still gain some money after the defeat of Ariane.
Not the way things work... or what did Russia get when the Rafale won the Indian MMRCA competition?
Russia also want some information in the design of Mistral. But some people commented that Mistral belongs to the class of "2nd-rate ferry of Manche", not "1st-rate ferry of Baltics", therefore the techs in Mistral are not something very special.
It was a mature tested design that could be put into production rapidly and they could get into service within a couple of years of signing the contract. Any new design would need competition and comprehensive testing which would take a decade.
That is the reason why these Russian Mistrals have much higher price than the original Mistrals. Actually, many Russian people had protested against the Mistral contract.
the higher price was because they are basically handing over the entire technology for the vessel... the third and fourth vessel... if ordered would be built in Russia and licence production is never cheaper than having the maker make them for you.
I was wondering what posters opinions are if the Mistrals are not delivered.
I know that the USSR had the Kherson design in the 1980's, but obviously things have moved on since then.
In the event of the Mistrals not being delivered, is there a Russian design out there that would be considered?
I'm assuming that various shipyards must have had designs that perhaps competed or were put forward originally before the Mistral was selected?
As mentioned these vessels are just helicopter barges... nothing too complicated or special, but obviously the last few years the Mistral deal has been signed so progress on any domestic equivalent would be unlikely.
With the design and construction plans they could easily build more Mistrals, but I suspect part of the ToT would require royalty fees be paid for Russian production vessels.
I rather suspect if the Mistral deal falls through they will start a domestic program to design and build replacements but such vessels would not be ready till at least 2020.
I think the Mistral would be rather useful in the arctic and near the Kurile isles... without them I suspect they might perhaps change the force structure in the north and far east to compensate with more ground based helos till new carriers are ready.
wilhelm wrote:I was wondering what posters opinions are if the Mistrals are not delivered.
I know that the USSR had the Kherson design in the 1980's, but obviously things have moved on since then.
In the event of the Mistrals not being delivered, is there a Russian design out there that would be considered?
I'm assuming that various shipyards must have had designs that perhaps competed or were put forward originally before the Mistral was selected?
And it begins.par far wrote:
I think they probably started designing a ship domestically(or they must must be doing something domestically), when France backed out of the deal(with american pressure), then I think they probably started doing something.
Russia to start building own helicopter carriers
The Navy has put construction of Russia’s own amphibious assault ships on a long-term program of shipbuilding for up to 2050 and these plans have been endorsed by the Defense Ministry, a source says
MOSCOW, December 11. /TASS/. Designing and manufacturing of own universal amphibious assault helicopter carriers is part and parcel of a long-term program of naval shipbuilding through to 2050, a high-rank source in the Russian defense sector told TASS on Thursday.
“The Navy has put construction of Russia’s own amphibious assault ships on a long-term program of shipbuilding for up to 2050 and these plans have been endorsed by the Defense Ministry,” he said. “The document envisions (the emergence of) these ships, many such ships actually.”
The Russian Navy needs universal amphibious assault ships similar to the French Mistrals, or the ships that would be somewhat smaller in size and tonnage. Such ships will be able to solve many more combat tasks than the bid amphibious assault ships of the Ivan Gren type, under construction now.
When TASS asked the source where the Russian helicopter carriers would be designed, he mentioned the Nevsky and Northern Design Bureaus, “as both of them have done important enough exploratory works on universal amphibious ships.”
http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/766498
wilhelm wrote:I was wondering what posters opinions are if the Mistrals are not delivered.
I think they probably started designing a ship domestically(or they must must be doing something domestically), when France backed out of the deal(with american pressure), then I think they probably started doing something.
So the Mistral could come with nasty surprises inside.. spy hardware ,that could reveal the ship location to NATO at all times.. from satellite
Some 400 Russian sailors training on a Mistral-class warship France controversially built for their navy will be returning home for an unspecified amount of time, the ship’s French builder has said.
"I can confirm that the Russian sailors will return (to Russia) before the end of year," a spokesman for shipbuilder DCNS told AFP news agency on Wednesday.
The spokesman did not give a date for the sailors' departure and could not say whether they would return to the port city of Saint-Nazaire, where the ship was built.
The sailors have been training since June on board the “Vladivostok”, one of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers destined for the Russian navy according to the terms of a €1.2 billion ($1.58 billion) deal signed in 2011.
The contract has been subject to months of intense speculation, with Paris coming under intense pressure from its NATO allies to scrap delivery of the ships due to Russia’s behaviour in the Ukrainian crisis.
President François Hollande suspended the delivery of the first of the two ships “until further notice” last month citing lack of progress in Ukraine, where Russia is accused of arming pro-Moscow rebels in the country’s east.
His defence minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, later said the ships might “never be delivered”.
Russia has warned Paris of "serious" consequences if France reneges on the deal.
Last month, Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov told the ITAR-TASS news agency that if France ultimately fails to fulfil its side of the deal, Russia will “go to court and impose fines”.
France’s naval industry considers the Mistral one of its engineering jewels, with the navy dubbing the ship the “Swiss army knife”.
It is designed to carry as many as a dozen assault helicopters, sixty armoured vehicles, and a dozen tanks. It can also host up to 700 troops and a full hospital.
F-15E wrote:Russians training on Mistral warship ‘to leave France’
Some 400 Russian sailors training on a Mistral-class warship France controversially built for their navy will be returning home for an unspecified amount of time, the ship’s French builder has said.
"I can confirm that the Russian sailors will return (to Russia) before the end of year," a spokesman for shipbuilder DCNS told AFP news agency on Wednesday.
The spokesman did not give a date for the sailors' departure and could not say whether they would return to the port city of Saint-Nazaire, where the ship was built.
The sailors have been training since June on board the “Vladivostok”, one of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers destined for the Russian navy according to the terms of a €1.2 billion ($1.58 billion) deal signed in 2011.
The contract has been subject to months of intense speculation, with Paris coming under intense pressure from its NATO allies to scrap delivery of the ships due to Russia’s behaviour in the Ukrainian crisis.
President François Hollande suspended the delivery of the first of the two ships “until further notice” last month citing lack of progress in Ukraine, where Russia is accused of arming pro-Moscow rebels in the country’s east.
His defence minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, later said the ships might “never be delivered”.
Russia has warned Paris of "serious" consequences if France reneges on the deal.
Last month, Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov told the ITAR-TASS news agency that if France ultimately fails to fulfil its side of the deal, Russia will “go to court and impose fines”.
France’s naval industry considers the Mistral one of its engineering jewels, with the navy dubbing the ship the “Swiss army knife”.
It is designed to carry as many as a dozen assault helicopters, sixty armoured vehicles, and a dozen tanks. It can also host up to 700 troops and a full hospital.
http://www.france24.com/en/20141217-russian-sailors-disputed-warship-mistral-leave-france-ukraine-nazaire/
F-15E wrote:It is better to France to cancel the mistral deal.
Canceling the Mistral deal will have no influence over India buying 126 Rafale aircrafts from France for ~12 billion euros and would open doors for 29 billion euros tenders in Poland and Australia.
France would have to refund ~800 million euros already paid by Russia (if i'm not wrong) and pay a penalty of ~260 million euros in case of non delivery,The total that Russia can claim in case of cancelation is therefore around 1 billion euros... not 3 to 10 billion euros as you sometimes can read in russian medias.
F-15E wrote:It is better to France to cancel the mistral deal.
Canceling the Mistral deal will have no influence over India buying 126 Rafale aircrafts from France for ~12 billion euros and would open doors for 29 billion euros tenders in Poland and Australia.
France would have to refund ~800 million euros already paid by Russia (if i'm not wrong) and pay a penalty of ~260 million euros in case of non delivery,The total that Russia can claim in case of cancelation is therefore around 1 billion euros... not 3 to 10 billion euros as you sometimes can read in russian medias.
Zivo wrote:I actually enjoy watching Hollande make himself look like a stooge. He's a puppet, and everyone can see his strings.
The 2017 elections are going to been fun to watch.
F-15E wrote:Russian Sailors Left France Without The Mistral.
F-15E wrote:Russian Sailors Left France Without The Mistral.
Home
Latest images
Register
Log in
AlfaT8