west is fully capable of going to the end to win. WW1, WW2, Recent chemical attacks...check and check....No need to kick yourself in nuts.
You are joking right?
The immaturity and pettiness and arrogance of the western allies in WWI led directly to WWII happening... it was totally unnecessary and terribly costly, even if it did hasten a lot of technologies we enjoy today...
For instance, we blundered in Syria, Russia took the opportunity. They blundered in Ukraine (kinda) but they got Crimea (good) but Ukraine is up in the air with the way things are there....you get the wind of what I am talking about....serious power struggles going on. We have a lot on the line but US and West are leaders and offensive powers...Russia and China play defensively and their whole force is designed around it....
It is the US doing all the blundering... they fucked up Iraq... most of the former pro-saddam sunnis formed ISIS and screwed most other countries in the region.. the US didn't take note till after Iran and Russia were called in by Syria to help clean up the mess the US created... result... America lost in Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan... in fact everywhere except Israel think you are dicks.
In the Ukraine Nuland spent 5 billion of your tax dollars to illegally overthrow a government that was not pro Russia as everyone in the west claims, they were just in the process of accepting a deal from Russia and China that was vastly more appealing to the Ukraine than the shitty loans and promises of the EU. The coup funded by the US pretty much screwed the entire country and almost allowed Sevastopol to become a NATO naval base, but Putin outsmarted you... not hard, but ignores the careful planning needed to ensure no chaos or bloodshed in the crimea while a referendum is held... how ironic that evil democracy hating Putin used the ballot box to let the people of the Ukraine decide their own future, while blood thirsty America uses snipers to shoot people on both sides during protests at maiden to create chaos and bloodshed, and now poverty... I would say the Ukraine is no longer making money from Russia... Russia is learning to make the things they used to get from the Ukraine themselves, so I would say the losers are the Ukraine first of all, but the US and EU because they now have a basket case nazi hell hole to look after, and Russia got their lease of Sevastopol extended to forever, and the Crimea, which was a popular holiday destination for Russians before, so they will be all smiles... a bit of money spent to improve things there but they will be generating revenue for the country soon enough if not already...
So the US forced the Iranians to expand into Syria and increased their sway in Iraq, and forced Russia to move forces into Syria and display quite a bit of competence in doing so... weapon sales have been boosted with interesting improved performances and upgrades based on experience.
.I still think we will try to put pressure on Russia by doing exactly what I mentioned and the goal would be to make Russia busy with variety of threats,
I agree... keep it up... pushing Russia away from the west will stop them becoming like you and they will realise the rest of the world is there... wanting what the west is promising.... free trade and free open markets and fair trade, but it never seems to end up that way when it happens with the west. It happens with the Chinese and it happens with the Russians. They might be poor right now, but they have resources Russia and China don't, which gives them value. As they trade and become more advanced and capable themselves they will thank the Russians and Chinese for free and fair trade not designed to hold them in the third world and as they get richer they can spend more and improve ties with Russia and China and eventually India and the other BRICS countries if they want to keep it up.
the goal is not in hitting Moscow or some other city by delpoying hypersonic missiles in Bulgaria or Romania as Python indicated.. SS-26 or Kalibr is not going to change the calculus much but the Posedian and Avangard will....
The goal can be what ever you want it to be the the actual result will be something similar pointed at your head with the same hair trigger... and with the speed of these things... don't blink... what ever you do... don't blink.
Dude, you need to calm down man....you will give yourself a heart attack.
I am fine.... you are the one poking the bear... I am the one thinking this is going to get messy and I really should look away but I have to watch, because are you really that stupid...
What I asked is hypothetical but not impossible....I am psychotic?
Swimming with sharks is possible... getting in to the lion enclosure at your nearest zoo is possible... but to actually do so is normal behaviour?
Would you agree the high fatality rate would make it uncommon behaviour because after the first person does it and gets ripped to shreds and eaten it often makes the others line up hesitate a bit...
But no... they are just fish and nice big puddy tats... I am sure they wont bite you.
When you get close to a rattle snake it rattles its tail as a warning... if you keep getting closer and ignore the warning eventually they strike and try to bite you... for millions of years they have developed fangs and a high speed strike and venom that kills... it is really up to you if they use it... why do you keep moving closer to Russia... it is rattling its tail and you ignore it because you think it is weak and you are strong, but guess what... that venom will kill us all... but that is OK in ten years time your venom will be just as strong if not better... except in 10 years time they will have ten years experience of using and defending so their attack will be even more devastating by then... but you are a
and as you say... you just keep on pushing... why?
In your experience do you think people that survived the second world war fought through their country where major cities were destroyed three or four or five times taken and retaken over and over again, the people that fought in Stalingrad and survived the siege of Leningrad... do you think they are just going to say... hmm they have more missiles that us we might as well give up and do exactly what they tell us to do like a little bitch because I am sure they will be much nicer to us and that is all we care about... them liking us...
WAKE UP... YOUR FUCKING AMERICAN DREAM IS GOING TO GET US ALL KILLED.
you seem to think Russia is some kind of angel that wont hurt a fly...they sell weapons to UAE and without blinking they will sell it to Saudis given a chance who are murdering Yemenis and they possibly fund islamic radicals in Russia too...get real. I can't wait to hear your hypocritical justification...
Nobody is saying Russia is innocent... Russia does not want special treatment, Russia does not want to control the world, what it wants is to be treated with respect and be left the fuck alone by the imperial stormtroopers of the west.
Yes, they sell weapons to the UAE, and Saudi Arabia... only a tiny fraction of the 400 billion dollars of weapons the US is selling to Saudi Arabia alone. Russia can suggest but it wont tell its customers or allies what to do. Does you supermarket manager tell you what colour car you need to get when you are buying a new one? Do you think he should do that?
Issues like Yemen should be dealt with at the UN... and every time anyone brings it up or anything about Israel, the US or UK blocks it.
Not going to happen....you do not seem to understand the power struggle between super powers that is going on now...they will push each other and that is a given.
What do you think hypersonic missiles in the Black Sea is?
What do you think Global Strike is all about?
The clever ones will gain advantage over the other...I thought you would have some weight in your thinking but the few responses from you are just nothing but emotional....as I said there is a reason why Putin or Lavrov does not get riled up on a regular basis....they very well know what is going on...
They can only play the hand they are holding right now... with a lot of their actions they have massively improved their situation, and despite wanting to trade and grow with the west these directions of play have been taken out of the game as options and they are looking elsewhere for trade partners and allies. A very sad situation caused by the wests attitude... they won the cold war now they are in charge and they set the hierarchy of power and Russia and China are below everyone in NATO... they are making the exact same mistake as they did just after WWI... what a fuck up that was, and how could you possibly blame any one country for that shit storm, but the west simply blamed Germany and punished them like they planned it from the start... ignoring completely how it really started, and that it actually snowballed because stupid little alliances forced bigger powers to get involved in something that wasn't worth 10 lives let alone 20 million.
But Germany got repeatedly punished for a war they were no more responsible for than the UK or France...
The result of that utter utter stupidity, was a change of the planet... former German colonies were gobbled up around the planet and borders were redrawn in the middle east and royal families and countries created with the stroke of a pen based on known oil reserves by Britain and France... boy that wont come back to bite us in the ass either right?
But now you are doing it again... except Russia has nukes and technology every bit as good as yours... and 1.5 billion Chinese that will more than likely be on their side, plus a possible 1.3 billion Indians too... and a good proportion of the rest of the world too if I am honest.
But no... you keep playing your games...
You are the superpower here....so go ahead and use your power if I hurt your ego and take action on me. You kinda threatened and warned me already in other post.....you can't even handle reasonable discussion calmly and you expect incumbent superpower to give up its power and be reasonable to rising powers.....not going to happen. USSR giving up its power was a rare event in history...,not many incidents in the entire history like that.
Oh cry like a little girl why don't you?
You are the American... you own the internet... surely if I banned you for anything within minutes the black helicopters would be outside my window with orders to shoot to kill because I might have some dirt on the Clintons or the Obamas that they don't want in open court...
Why France and Germany now? Well, we kinda decided that they can not mooch off of us anymore and let us do the dirty work....
What dirty work? Keeping the Russians from invading Europe? Yeah right.... what they need is more land...
our treasury has taken a pretty big hit and we have our own in house issues going on....so they need to step up if they want to enjoy the benefits of world domination and lordship over the world....
When the Soviets pulled out of Eastern Europe they kinda actually expected the US forces to pull out of western europe... not move into eastern europe closer to Russia and the former Soviet States... but now it seems you want them to pay you for your presence.... I think that is a great idea.... why should they not pay... you are protecting them from their fantasies of a Russian invasion... why should you pay anything for that?
What I don't understand is why France or Italy should pay for that though...
It don't matter....it will be hard to step into Putin's place. He has displayed extreme patience, strength and loyality to his country. Our strategists either underestimated him or just too arrogant to have studied him seriously. I still remember silly remarks from Obama administration. You may want to consider non-optimistic scenario also...
His replacement might be rather more proactive and aggressive... he might be even better at playing the game as you say... he might say the west is going to kick Russia out of swift so lets leave and invade the Ukraine... might take a week.... and then lets say the Russians in the Baltic states are calling for help so we have to help them too... that would only take another couple of days... are you honestly going to say you would start WWIII over the baltic states?
Trump and Obama were
and invaded and bombed all sorts of countries... why should Russia not do the same?
Or they could expand their bases in central and south America and bring them out in the open and sell them enormous amounts of high tech weapons like the US did with Saudi Arabia... that would be fun...
They will use their puppets in Europe as you "patriotically" proposed with Bulgaria and Romania IIRC for provocations and to take some hits so US can come to the rescue and plunge Russia and Europe in a big conventional conflict that bleeds (again) both of them dry.
Except hypersonic missile attacks from Bulgaria or Romania... it will be a while before they know if they were conventionally armed or nukes, so the response would probably first of all be to sink the ships, but nuke warheads would result in their countries capitals being nuked too... hypersonic threats to Moscow would likely be countered with a nuclear armed Nudel which by coincidence would probably be the first effective anti hypersonic weapon system simply because it is enormously fast and can carry an enormous warhead which would likely effectively counter any minor differences in trajectory in the terminal attack phase.... a miss by 20m would be a total miss with conventional warheads, but easily destroyed by a 1 MT nuke warhead... but that will make determining if the incoming missile was a nuke or not... why would they launch a conventional weapon however, so just assume it is a nuke and fire at their capital city and brussels and washington where the control of nuclear weapons would be located and see if they want to launch a full scale retaliation... if they do then everything gets launched...
I get what you mean but West may miscalculate how serious Russia is about not allowing to be destroyed again. They think it is all a bluff don't they?
But surely they just need to keep poking the bear because the only reason a wild bear is not a domestic putty tat is because it has not been poked hard enough... from the book training wild animals by poking them with a stick, by a guy named Some Dead Fuck.
Unfortunately I do not control beyond that. You do not need to get on your mighty moral horse either. You are getting puffed up for no reason with some kind of hot air like one of those feminists going on and on.
Yes, of course, you might think that things are the way they are and you can't change them so don't even try... perhaps you are white and not poor and not a woman and everything is basically OK so why rock the boat... it is not so bad once like those round bikes on South Park... I am sure you will understand the reference... getting on the first time is uncomfortable for most heterosexuals, and you might lose a few teeth if you go too fast and are not careful... but everyone is doing it so why not?
As for technical, it is subjective and I can quote 100 of your posts where you are idle talking. Anyway, what about technical, information is out there and whatever classified remains classified and i just said that this particular missile does not change calculus too much but does bring Russia into a comfortable position vs early 2000's when it was on the brink. Or you prefer I mention how tall, wide and fast this missle goes once again?
This missile was in service in the early 2000s, and the Tochka-U missile could do similar things over a shorter range...
Both are based on the Oka missile that had to be scrapped for the INF treaty, so it was not technology that stopped it entering service it was lack of money for anything at all...
They could have had it in service in the early 1990s...
I am getting tired of this "I am the pope and save the mankind" kinda of morality. You do not become better by ignoring what is happening around you.
Welcome to our world.... America has been spreading peace and love for the last 30 years omnipotently as the worlds last and only super power... now Trump is here on the command of god to save israel and start the rapture... fuking nutters.
That's it for me....supermod (sorry I should say kiwi) is going to roast me
I don't ban people unless I have to... I think what you are saying is pretty much the defence I would hide behind if I was in your position having to justify what
my leaders have done with their awesome power and money. They had an enormous potential to do what they did after WWII except do it after WWI instead and avoided WWII. But they just repeated the same old mistakes... they picked a bad guy potential rival to their power and then they picked up the fragments of what they had available including Japan and west germany and they formed a coalition of the willing to waste trillions of dollars in a pointless meaningless cold conflict that lasted most of the rest of the century.
Let me ask you if communism was so evil and so wrong why did America get right in to bed with China and Yugoslavia when it suited them... would it not have been easier to just get friendlier and less aggressive against the Soviets and let time and market forces destroy the corrupt and impossible communist system... I mean if you were so sure it was always going to fail.
But no, the west was not Christian... it did not turn the other cheek... it created war and poverty and it shed blood around the world... and when they finally won and Russia gave up communism and became democratic... you treat them worse now than you ever did... it never had anything to do with communism... they are a rival of enormous potential and you are scared to death they might grow faster that you and influence your citizens to expect more from their government than just taking their taxes and wasting it on weapons they don't need and wars that just kill people and make a few people in the west rich.
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I kinda got over the specs side of the weapons and these days I am more towards personality and strategy analysis. Everyone brags about exaggerating their cock index measurements (remember the southpark cock index episode, funny as hell!) ...so to me they are kinda less consequential than the leaders that potentially can use them. Anyway, thanks for having me....I will find threads that are oriented towards that type of discussion. In that way you don't have to do the house cleaning because of me. I might drop by once in a while if I notice something interesting.