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    PAK FA, T-50: News #1

    Dima
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    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 18 Empty Re: PAK FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Dima Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:10 am

    Sujoy wrote: Off Topic
    The confusion surrounding the radar for the Mig 29K had primarily been started by members of the Indian Navy. They had reported to the Defense Ministry that the MiG-29K is equipped with the Zhuk-E radar . Now the Zhuk E / Zhuk MFS - E uses a PESA antenna, which has a diameter of 980 mm with a peak power output of 8 kW. This BTW is the same radar that the Chinese Shenyang J-10B is using .

    However, last September when CAG pulled up the Navy for purchasing 16 MiG 29K aircraft without finalising contract for an accompanying weapons system they had no answers for it . It was also reported that the BVR missile selected cannot be integrated with the current radar. This development is surprising coz all Russian made BVR missiles should be able to be integrated with the Zhuk M radar (This came close on the heels of 3 Navy officers being accused of damaging a "sensitive radar" ).

    The fact that the Indian Navy purposely got the Mig 29K without any weapons gives further credence to the fact that not all is well with the Navy's Mig 29 K Fire Control System.

    AFAIK, there was two units of PESA units from NIIR based on the unified platform of the Zhuk series.

    Zhuk-MFE
    (700mm, I suppose) meant for MiG-29 class of fighters
    Zhuk-MSFE
    (>900mm) meant for the Su-30 class of fighters.

    Zhuk AESA units
    Zhuk-AE
    Front end (antenna) and the processing & related unit being different, meant for MiG-29 class of fighters
    Zhuk-MAE
    I hope the designation is correct. Its a larger diameter variant meant for Su-30 class of fighters. This is the unit which we earlier heard being meant for Su-30 upgrade and which the media wrongly reported as Zhuk-AE. Yes it is based on the development of Zhuk-AE, but for Su-30 class, it will be with larger diameter antenna and more T/R modules.

    Zhuk slotted array units
    Zhuk-ME/M2E
    currently installed in MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29UPG
    Zhuk-MSE
    meant for Su-30 class

    Like the new series of MiG-29 fighters, the Zhuk series are based on maximum commonalty of the unit such that if the customer want to change from slotted array to PESA, they can change the required front and back-end without the need to modify the structure for the makeover.


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    Post  Sujoy Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:25 pm


    Off Topic
    The MiG-29K’s & MiG-29UPG’s Phazotron JSC-built Zhuk-M2E uses a mechanically scanning radar whose slotted-array antenna has to physically move in azimuth & elevation whenever it is searching & tracking airborne/ground targets. PESA & AESA on the other hand make uses of electronic scanning modes of operation. Mechanically scanning radars & PESA radars cannot undertake concurrent or interleaved operations, instead their modes of operation are sequential. For instance, when one is searching & tracking, fire-control operations (like guiding a BVRAAM or ARM) isn’t possible. With AESA-MMRs, all these functions can be carried out at the same time . Since the Indian Navy had the option of integrating their Mig 29's with an AESA radar , not sure why they chose not to .
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    Post  TR1 Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:45 pm

    PESA can continue searching while performing tracking operations.
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    Post  Viktor Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:46 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    Off Topic
    The MiG-29K’s & MiG-29UPG’s Phazotron JSC-built Zhuk-M2E uses a mechanically scanning radar whose slotted-array antenna has to physically move in azimuth & elevation whenever it is searching & tracking airborne/ground targets.

    That has its advantages too. Imagine Irbis 400km range detection system allowing pilot to move away from several targets being fired upon by R-37/77 and target tracking being aplied by mehanical steered antena. Something that AESA positioned in a way they are at most fighters can not provide.

    Similar effect like HMS/R-73 combo.
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    Post  TR1 Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:54 am

    Irbis is just a rare combination of electronic + mechanical scanning, which results in some insane angles and some tactical trickery. Some AESA designs seek a vaguely similar solutions, like the washplate mounted arrays.

    Very interesting in what VVS thinks of Irbis in service.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:32 pm

    Viktor wrote:

    That has its advantages too. Imagine Irbis 400km range detection system allowing pilot to move away from several targets being fired upon by R-37/77 and target tracking being aplied by mehanical steered antena. Something that AESA positioned in a way they are at most fighters can not provide.

    Similar effect like HMS/R-73 combo.

    Agreed ! But here is the thing . Had the Indian Navy opted for an AESA radar ( which are in any case being integrated in the Super Sukhois ) the AESA antenna would have provided a full +/-100-degree field-of-regard, which allows the aircraft to turn away after a BVRAAM launch, whilst still maintaining data-linking with the BVRAAM .
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    Post  Viktor Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:21 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Agreed ! But here is the thing . Had the Indian Navy opted for an AESA radar ( which are in any case being integrated in the Super Sukhois ) the AESA antenna would have provided a full +/-100-degree field-of-regard, which allows the aircraft to turn away after a BVRAAM launch, whilst still maintaining data-linking with the BVRAAM .

    I think only Captor-E AESA in Typhoon that is also mehanical steered can provide +/-100°. Not sure about others but I think its less in comparison with +/-120° Irbis-E.

    Su-35BM also has datalink to guide its missiles but each of missiles is much more resistant to jamming if you guide it a bit further. On the other hand latest models of AIM-120 need to be guided almost all the way before AIM-120 radar lights up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8C06dHhlXc
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:22 pm

    Viktor wrote:

    I think only Captor-E AESA in Typhoon that is also mehanical steered can provide +/-100°. Not sure about others but I think its less in comparison with +/-120° Irbis-E.

    The Vixen850E AESA also provides the same functionality . However , Zhuk's AESA radar can detect targets from 125 miles away . Eventually IRST will be integrated with an AESA-based multi-mode radar by most developers.

    Viktor wrote:
    Su-35BM also has datalink to guide its missiles but each of missiles is much more resistant to jamming if you guide it a bit further. On the other hand latest models of AIM-120 need to be guided almost all the way before AIM-120 radar lights up.

    More importantly the SU 35 ( as well as the SU 30 MKI) can carry not only a large number of BVRAAMS but also a variety of BVRAAMS with different seeker options so one jamming or defensive technique will not defeat all the incoming threats. Russian and Indian Sukhois carry between 10-12 Beyond Visual Range ( BVR) missiles so they can fire more than three or four round Beyond Visual Range missile salvo during the opening stages of an engagement. In this manner the aircraft being targeted will face a difficult problem as it must jam, decoy and/or outmanoeuvre three or four tightly spaced inbound missiles.

    Viktor wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8C06dHhlXc

    Thanks for sharing this link.
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    Post  Austin Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:03 am

    AFM: Sukhoi T-50 Follow On Flanker

    http://www.mediafire.com/?auksfyy9oz898c4
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:11 am

    Like its US counterpart but on a more severe scale
    ????

    WTF?

    The F-22 was intended to replace the F-15C in service as the premiere US fighter, while the F-35 was to pretty much replace everything else.

    Cuts, delays and price increases have been severe problems for both US fighters, but the PAK FA program is hardly comparable.

    Certainly the Su-27 and Mig-29 are in serious need of replacement, but their replacement is not limited to 5th generation very very expensive fighters which is the situation in most of the west right now.

    Mig-29SMT and Mig-35 and Su-30M and Su-35 are very good relatively low cost replacements for existing fighters.

    That PAK FA might be delayed is more a case of lack of urgent need than anything that could be the fault of the aircraft.

    In comparison the early model F-22 actually sounds like a bit of a dog with WVR AAM capability inferior to in service Mig-29s and Su-27s...

    The next part of the article compares the progress of the F-22 with the MFI and MFS and then PAK FA programs and wonders why it took the Russians so long to create their F-22 carbon copy. All the current whining in the west about the economic depression is amusing considering they ignore the 2-3 economic collapses that Russia went through in the 1990s.

    The real question that should be asked is why would Russia rush through their PAK FA program? They have no global empire to maintain, no regime change agenda to pursue. The PAK FA is not a copy of an F-22, it is its solution.

    The suggestion that Indian money has saved the PAK FA from the same fate as the MFI program is actually laugh out loud funny.

    The MFI was a cold war programs. PAK FA wasn't the cheaper simpler alternative, it was a different aircraft to meet different goals and requirements of Russia... and I mean Russia because MFI and MFS were SOVIET programs, not Russian ones.

    Russia and the Soviet Union are not the same countries.

    Indian money for the FFGA design will be spent on that. The future Russian in service PAK FA might benefit from that investment, in the same way the Su-35 has benefited from the joint venture on the Su-30MKI, but the current PAK FA program is not terribly effected so far.

    From a dead industry and a stagnant air force the PAK FA program is going incredibly well in my opinion... this article reminds me why I stopped buying AFM and AirInt... the basically anti Russian bias is annoying.

    I rather suspect the comments at the start of the article comparing the PAK FA with the F-22 are face saving comments because the F-35 the British are tied in to buy is probably not going to be any where near the hype talked about when it was a paper plane. The Typhoon is still a very limited aircraft in terms of multirole options too.

    Perhaps as a British publication facing austerity measure in the public sector and of course the almost guaranteed military budget cuts that have been and are to come they are likely a little jealous of the funding the Russian military are now getting.
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    Post  TR1 Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:29 am

    Can't blame the Brits - they will continue to fly a half-baked, terrible outmatched plane (Eurofighter) for the next several decades.
    Probably with the current Captor too for the rest of the decade Very Happy .

    But yeah, AFM and Combat Aircraft always have laughable Russian reports, unless it is by an actual Russian author.
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:40 pm

    Most Englishmen have views about India ( and to a lesser extent about Russia ) that are characterized by a number of psychiatric symptoms such as acute delusional states, hallucinations, feelings of persecution. So how can they let go of any opportunity to defile India or Russia when presented with an opportunity .

    Till the end of last year Air Force Magazine was championing the cause of Super Hornets for the RAF before making a complete U Turn earlier this year stating that the F 35 was the future of the RAF. Inconsistencies are nothing new in British journalism but they have been remarkably consistent when it comes to defaming . Be it the IRA , Indian Freedom Fighters , Argentinian premiers to name just three.

    In this article too they have resorted to these same antics . The writer is ill informed about the PAK FA / T 50 . To begin with the Indian FGFA is going to be considerably different from the Russian PAK FA . The FGFA is being designed to carry out deep penetrating strikes inside enemy territory , whereas the PAK FA is more of a "Hunter Killer" .

    The writer states that
    the T 50 design is well over a decade later than that of the F 22
    but somehow fails to explain how stealth design have undergone supposedly massive changes over the past decade . Given the fact that the F 35 is far less stealthy than the F 22 it can therefore be concluded that even the F 35 manufacturers were oblivious to the fact that there design was a decade old or better still seek advice from this writer about stealth designing .

    Russia also appears to continue to pursue a different approach to platform survivability overall, with less emphasis on minimizing all aspect radar cross section reduction

    For reasons unknown the writer chose not to explain the above observation .

    Everything said and done as with any other article coming out of the English press it reflects more of an agenda than news per se. A far cry from the stellar assessment made of the Chinese J 20 by Vladimir Karnozov

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/02/j-20-chinas-ultimate-aircraft.html

    or even research done by the much maligned Indians .

    http://defense-update.com/20120502_beyond-visual-range-stealth-fighters-in-asia.html


    [ BTW - Austin , as always thanks for sharing this article ]

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    Post  TR1 Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:50 pm

    Well, you know these authors, they see no S-duct and as yet unshielded engines > OMFG NOT STEALTH!

    No black paint either, we know that adds vast stealth qualities Wink
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:05 am

    Yes, it really becomes a case of its stealth like ours or it isn't stealth.

    There is plenty of scope for shielding the engines from radar including internal blockers and even what they did with the Tu-160 which had the front blades of the engines treated with radar absorbing material to reduce RCS.

    I rather suspect there would be scope for ionisation of the air as it enters the intake... in other words plasma stealth inside the intakes...
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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:04 am

    TR1 wrote:Well, you know these authors, they see no S-duct and as yet unshielded engines > OMFG NOT STEALTH!

    No black paint either, we know that adds vast stealth qualities Wink

    Dafaq... then my planes aren't stealthy just because it's not black eh... although my simulations says otherwise.. Mad


    I rather suspect there would be scope for ionisation of the air as it enters the intake... in other words plasma stealth inside the intakes...

    This might be interesting. I read a paper dated back to 1985 talking about some form of RAM with some radioactive content to ionize the air.
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    Post  Mindstorm Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:30 pm


    Stealthflanker if you refere to some pasted solutions for this specific aircraft frontal RCS contributiion's area (some of which greatly perfectioned or even vastly surpassed by the date of the articles' publication... ) a small "window coverage" in the open western press was the 2004 article "Russian Stealth Research Revealed" by Bill Sweetman.



    Those are the assertions related to the design solutions which you, probably, had refered to.



    The ITAE, though, has developed a high-performance, ferro-magnetic RAM for the compressor face and duct walls. The material has to be thin, because it cannot constrict airflow or impede the operation of anti-icing systems, and must withstand high-speed airflows and temperatures up to 200°C. The ITAE team has developed and tested coating materials which meet these standards. A layer of RAM between 0.7-mm and 1.4-mm thick is applied to the ducts, and a 0.5-mm coating is applied to the front stages of the low-pressure compressor, using a robotic spray system. The result is a reduction of 10-15 dB in the RCS contribution from the inlets – more than halving the RCS.


    and


    The ITAE has flight-tested a unique and exotic technology to mask the Su-35's huge 35-inch radar antenna: the use of a low-temperature, "plasma-controlled screen." The screen is mounted in front of the antenna and is transparent to radar when switched off; it may be similar to a plasma TV screen, comprising cells filled with neon or xenon gas, which is excited by an electrical current. (Video shows a clearly defined luminous panel in front of the antenna.) When activated, the screen absorbs some incoming radar energy and scatters the rest in safe directions, over all RF bands lower than the frequency of the plasma-generation system. The screen switches on and off in tens of microseconds, according to the ITAE, thanks to years of intensive development of the gas mixture and plasma-generation system.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:02 pm

    Plasma-stealth is the biggest piece of internet-forum vaporware in the 21st century.
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    Post  Sujoy Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:32 pm

    TR1 wrote:Well, you know these authors, they see no S-duct and as yet unshielded engines > OMFG NOT STEALTH!

    No black paint either, we know that adds vast stealth qualities Wink


    Also, the aircraft should choke the pilot to death .......... or else it's not stealth .
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    Post  GJ Flanker Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:57 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Plasma-stealth is the biggest piece of internet-forum vaporware in the 21st century.

    Hello to everyone!

    Plasma technology can only be useful to confuse an incoming AAM or SAM. It can work only for a short sequence of time, otherwise it would only conflict with the sensors of the aircraft that uses Plasma.
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    Post  Mindstorm Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:27 pm


    Plasma-stealth is the biggest piece of internet-forum vaporware in the 21st century.


    flamming_python the unique vaporous things on this subject are ,to the exact contrary ,only the uneducated (often up to comical levels) debates on "plasma-stealth" present in open media .

    Among those the most ridiculous ,in absolute terms, are just those attempting to depict this technology a sort of fairy-tale or hoax Laughing Laughing and all of us know perfectly where all those low level innuendo usually come from. Rolling Eyes


    It is not only a very well rooted and proved scientifical acquisition, with also some notable operative employments already today, but will represent ,in a not far future, almost the unique viable and efficient way to reduce radar visibility...and not only.... of space vehicles against future most advanced sensor
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:08 am

    Plasma-stealth is the biggest piece of internet-forum vaporware in the 21st century.

    Plasma stealth is a known fact... radio and radar contact is lost with spacecraft during reentry because of the ionised gas generated around the object. Ionised gas absorbs radio and radar energy.

    The problem on the internet is ignorance... they assume plasma can only be created by heat, like that created by friction of travelling at very high speed through the atmosphere. Plasma can also be created with high voltages... as toy plasma balls proves. Very simply the nose of an aircraft has an antenna but in front of that large flat antenna is mostly empty space where the nosecone is pointed to make it a better aerodynamic shape. Have a gap in front of a moving antenna to allow it to move and then put a sealed balloon with exotic gasses that ionise with an electric current. There is already plenty of power routed to the nose of the aircraft to power the radar, and the radar wont be much use through ionised gas anyway so you can wire the electric power to either go to the radar or balloon. When the power is going through the radar it can transmit and listen, and when it goes through the balloon it hides the radar antenna and absorbs any incoming radar energy greatly reducing the RCS of the aircraft.

    Plasma stealth is already being used on ICBM warheads...

    The main problem is ionising the (open) air in front of the aircraft rapidly enough to cover the aircraft in ionised air... obviously it needs to be generated rapidly or the plane will just fly through it.

    The other problem of course is that radar and radio communication with the aircraft become problematic.

    Contrary to myth the aircraft does not become a ball of fire lighthouse that can be detected at very long range via IR sensors, though of course it would do nothing to reduce IR signature either.

    Also, the aircraft should choke the pilot to death .......... or else it's not stealth .

    LOL!

    Plasma technology can only be useful to confuse an incoming AAM or SAM. It can work only for a short sequence of time, otherwise it would only conflict with the sensors of the aircraft that uses Plasma.

    A good analogy... when the enemy fires AMRAAMs at you you turn on your plasma stealth system and monitor the missiles with IRST/DAS. When the F-22/35 closes and tries to use IR or IIR guided short range missiles then you use DIRCMs to defeat their optical sensors... then it comes down to a gun fight and to be honest I would rate an Su-35 as being in a better position than an F-22 or an F-35.

    For a fighter then plasma stealth is protection from long range radar guided missiles like RVV-BD or Meteor or medium range missiles like AMRAAM or RVV-SD.

    For a bomber it could be left on most of the time with IRST/DAS sensors monitoring the airspace around the aircraft. When radar is needed a flying wing shaped bomber could use air cavities in the front of the leading edge of the wings for internal plasma stealth with AESA radar arrays behind that. Shaping alone could dramatically reduce RCS and with plasma stealth the RCS could be as low as the B-2 or lower without the cost or design compromise.
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    Post  Mindstorm Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:04 am



    The main problem is ionising the (open) air in front of the aircraft rapidly enough to cover the aircraft in ionised air... obviously it needs to be generated rapidly or the plane will just fly through it.

    Exactly to the point GarryB , the major hurdle existing today, obviously only for vehicles travelling at relatively high speed in dense layers of atmosphere , is to construct an high energy generator economically affordable and mass producible (perfectly working and efficient unique specimens are already present since several years) capable to create a frequency-selective/pan-frequency field around the aircraft faster than the air-flow induced dispersion's velocity, also at high speed regimes of flight.


    The other problem of course is that radar and radio communications with the aircraft become problematic.....
    For a fighter then plasma stealth is protection from long range radar guided missiles like RVV-BD or Meteor or medium range missiles like AMRAAM or RVV-SD.


    That GarryB is another of the generalizations on the so called "plasma-stealth" technology fruit of badly informed debates on internet ,not different that the ridiculous notion that the electromagnetic field around a similar aircraft will allow to "passive sensors" of enemy aircraft to detect easily it .
    The radiation's magnitudo of a similar ionized field would be some thousands of times lower than that generated by airframe overheating and aircraft engines operating at several thousand of degrees in the IR band ,moreover in electromagnetic frequencies with far less atmosphere's penetrative capabilities; rather the dispersion of the plasma "screen" with airflow will also work as an IR mitigating factor Very Happy

    The resultant range of detection for a purposely designed enemy passive sensor for a similar plasma field, would be fatally merely a very tiny fraction of actual range of detection on enemy aircraft by theirs IR emissions for unavoidable energy's magnitudo question.


    Returning to the question of radar sensor using a similar technology , i think that you are aware that the technology of which we talk foresee two separate parts :

    1) A continually operating pan-frequency field around the whole aircraft except its radar dome ("around" which the plasma "screen" would be generated).
    2) A purposely designed frequency-selective screen in front of the radar dish and perfectly collimated ,both in exit and access, with the pseudo-random frequency hopping sequence of the active radar.


    Some information on the principles of operation of this second device was presented by Prof. A.Lagarkov in an article i already posted in another thread .


    http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/JOURNAL/VRAN/03_10/STELLS.HTM


    This is the related part.


    "Другое техническое решение - установка перед локатором экрана, на поверхности которого размещены так называемые частотно-избирательные структуры - система периодических отверстий определенной формы, настроенных таким образом, что они свободно пропускают в обоих направлениях электромагнитную волну в узкой полосе собственных частот локатора и полностью отражают электромагнитные волны других частот. Вводя в эти специальным образом организованные отверстия, которые, по существу, представляют собой открытые резонаторы, управляющие полупроводниковые системы, можно при желании "закрыть" экран, сделав его непрозрачным для всех частот.

    Проблеме частотно-селективных поверхностей посвящена обширная литература, из которой можно сделать выводы об особенностях их применения. Мы разработали численные методы расчетов частотно-селективных экранов, владеем соответствующей технологией и изготовили действующие макеты управляемых экранов. В зависимости от конкретной конструкции антенны можно использовать как частотно-селективный экран, так и плазменный. Он монтируется внутри обтекателя таким же образом, как и частотно-селективный экран, но его принцип действия несколько другой. При отсутствии сигнала управления, который может подаваться пилотом самолета или его станцией обнаружения внешнего облучения, экран выключен и прозрачен на всех частотах. Когда поступает сигнал, на экран подается напряжение, в нем зажигается низкотемпературная столкновительная плазма, в результате излучение частично отражается от экрана в направлениях, показанных на рисунке 5, в, а частично поглощается в экране. Экран эффективен для электромагнитного излучения всех частот, меньше плазменной. Значение плазменной частоты в таких системах может быть очень большим. Многолетние исследования процессов, протекающих в низкотемпературной плазме, позволили найти оптимальные параметры для состава газов, образующих плазму, и оптимизировать высокоскоростную систему генерации плазмы, необходимую для реакции на быстро меняющуюся внешнюю обстановку. Летные испытания демонстрируют высокую эффективность предложенных решений, направленных на снижение радиолокационной заметности антенного отсека."

    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:48 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:

    Some information on the principles of operation of this second device was presented by Prof. A.Lagarkov in an article i already posted in another thread .


    http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/JOURNAL/VRAN/03_10/STELLS.HTM


    This is the related part.


    "Другое техническое решение - установка перед локатором экрана, на поверхности которого размещены так называемые частотно-избирательные структуры - система периодических отверстий определенной формы, настроенных таким образом, что они свободно пропускают в обоих направлениях электромагнитную волну в узкой полосе собственных частот локатора и полностью отражают электромагнитные волны других частот. Вводя в эти специальным образом организованные отверстия, которые, по существу, представляют собой открытые резонаторы, управляющие полупроводниковые системы, можно при желании "закрыть" экран, сделав его непрозрачным для всех частот.

    Проблеме частотно-селективных поверхностей посвящена обширная литература, из которой можно сделать выводы об особенностях их применения. Мы разработали численные методы расчетов частотно-селективных экранов, владеем соответствующей технологией и изготовили действующие макеты управляемых экранов. В зависимости от конкретной конструкции антенны можно использовать как частотно-селективный экран, так и плазменный. Он монтируется внутри обтекателя таким же образом, как и частотно-селективный экран, но его принцип действия несколько другой. При отсутствии сигнала управления, который может подаваться пилотом самолета или его станцией обнаружения внешнего облучения, экран выключен и прозрачен на всех частотах. Когда поступает сигнал, на экран подается напряжение, в нем зажигается низкотемпературная столкновительная плазма, в результате излучение частично отражается от экрана в направлениях, показанных на рисунке 5, в, а частично поглощается в экране. Экран эффективен для электромагнитного излучения всех частот, меньше плазменной. Значение плазменной частоты в таких системах может быть очень большим. Многолетние исследования процессов, протекающих в низкотемпературной плазме, позволили найти оптимальные параметры для состава газов, образующих плазму, и оптимизировать высокоскоростную систему генерации плазмы, необходимую для реакции на быстро меняющуюся внешнюю обстановку. Летные испытания демонстрируют высокую эффективность предложенных решений, направленных на снижение радиолокационной заметности антенного отсека."


    Mindstorm and GarryB,

    We need to isolate a major question about stealth aircrafts, ie there is a stealth aircraft paradox. The higher the aircraft's altitude the better it can be seen by radar, so why have stealth where you can get a couple of Su 30 and fly them low to attack a target for air defence suppression. Or why have stealth and not get good BVR missiles to attack and then flee immediately for air superiority.

    Another example might be the F-35 when operating at littoral environments like the Arabian sea, due to sea clutter and many islands? Is this a serious threat for countries like say Iran ? You guys get the gist right ?

    Regards,
    Sujoy
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:19 am

    We need to isolate a major question about stealth aircrafts, ie there is a stealth aircraft paradox. The higher the aircraft's altitude the better it can be seen by radar, so why have stealth where you can get a couple of Su 30 and fly them low to attack a target for air defence suppression. Or why have stealth and not get good BVR missiles to attack and then flee immediately for air superiority.

    actually what you mean is that radar is generally a line of sight system so a high flying aircraft exposes itself over much greater distances to ground based radar assets.

    A low flying aircraft is just as exposed to airborne radar as a high flying aircraft is to ground based radar.

    The point is that high flying aircraft enjoy several advantages including extended range for their own sensors, more efficient use of jet propulsion allowing more than double the flight speed and greatly extending flight range. Equally high altitude and speed increases the reach of weapons released/launched.

    The problem is extended distances at which you can be detected and engaged.

    Solution is stealth to reduce detection ranges and limit the types of things that can detect you.

    [qutoe]Another example might be the F-35 when operating at littoral environments like the Arabian sea, due to sea clutter and many islands? Is this a serious threat for countries like say Iran ? You guys get the gist right ?[/quote]

    There are several anti stealth systems that act like fences that detect stealth aircraft as they pass over. An integrated air defence network with lots of different radar types and other types of sensors and SAMs including MANPADS is the best solution to low flying stealthy aircraft.

    Stealth makes things harder.
    George1
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    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 18 Empty Re: PAK FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  George1 Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:16 pm

    Alexander Zelin: Т-50s will be put into service in 2015

    Russian air forces intend to put fifth-generation fighter into service in 2015, said General-Colonel Alexander Zelin, Assistant to the Minister of Defense, RIA Novosti reports.

    Mass media reported earlier that these fighters will be acquired by the Russian air forces after 2015.

    "The first batch will be delivered in 2015, the schedule has not been changed", - Zelin said.

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/8/13/1145/

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    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 18 Empty Re: PAK FA, T-50: News #1

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