Dogfight between F-15 and Su-27: Who should be the winner?

nemrod wrote:Can someone tell us if Su 27 is better than F15 ? Have you examples of fair dogfights ?

Vladimir79 wrote:Su-27 would definetly lose in the BVRAAM fight. The R-27 is a shit missile. In the dog fight, the Archer would reign supreme against legacy Sidewinders. Not so much against the AIM-9X.

The efficacy of BVR air to air missiles has been criticized. The increased success rate of BVR combat during Operation Desert Storm may have significantly depended on other factors, such as assistance of AWACS, NCTR system of F-15Cs, as well as enemy incompetency. Of major issue with BVR is still unreliable IFF technlogy (Identification friend or foe)....

GarryB wrote:
It is hard to judge a Serbian or Iraqi pilot taking off in their aircraft against the best the west can deliver, in often old model fighters with weapons of dubious quality/handling.

After all their air defence network is broken they are pretty much on their own and blind against an enemy that is well equipped and can create a large local superiority in numbers that really makes it very one sided... which is of course their goal... only an idiot fights fair when the stakes are death.

I doubt that Saudi F-15s would have done better than Iraqi Mig-29s in Desert Storm.

During tests in europe the Mig-29 did quite well against F-15s in both WVR and BVR tests and these were exported Mig-29s that could not use the larger R-27E model missiles, in fact they could only use the R-27R SARH missile, they couldn't even use the R-27T IR guided model or the R-27P passive radar homing missile let alone the R-27E models of those weapons with the larger longer burning rocket motors.

Very simply the West will only fight on terms where it has an excellent chance of success with minimal chance of losses... hense Iran is not being attacked... and neither is Syria at the moment.

Yeltsin made a lot of mistakes... he believed the west was his friend, when in fact they have no friends... just interests.

nemrod wrote:Garry, Iam still convice that if Russia wanted, Serbia could win its war against Nato, but in that time, Russia's adminstration wanted to collaborated with USA.

Yeltsin made a lot of mistakes... he believed the west was his friend, when in fact they have no friends... just interests.

Yetlsin did not do mistakes, but compleltly betrayed Russia. Yeltsin, Gorbatchov, Tchernomirdin, etc... and most russians's politicians in that time, were true bastards. They fed up with Russia, russian's people interrests.
This was golden age of other foreign billionaires -in fact true mafia's criminals-, Berezovski, Abrahmaovics, Khodorovski, etc...They spoke russian, they borned in Russia, however their hearts were towards $, Jerusalem, and Washington, totally ignoring what -the wonderfull people- russian's people is. Moreover they despise russia's people.
Yeltsin adminstratiion helped these ugly bastards, meanwhile russian people fall into poverty.
Obviously in that context, did they feel -Yeltsin's adminstration, he is not the alone- something for their slavian's brothers ? Not at all.

Today, a new era is rising, Russia has a new dynamic politicians, that seems to be true russians's patriots, true brave slavians, and with Russia's people know-how, Russia with the Chinese's help can end US empire.
In fact, Iam muslim, friend among hundreds of millions muslims of Russia , totally opposed of US hégemonic empire, and their muslims religious'extremists criminal lackeys.
Each new russian's weapons, new russian's innovations is a good news for us.
Now more than never Russia will have to help Serbia in the goal to retrieve Kossovo, as Russia is helping now Syria.

Regards.

HM1199 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNgwIsCKwcw
guys these people are actually sying that the su27 is lesser than f15 in maneuverability , most notably , they are only judging them in energy maneuverability

as far as i can find , there are too many mistakes , what do you guys think?

...the su27 is lesser than f15 in maneuverability...

Russia's F-15 Killer: Why America (and the World) Fears the Su-27 Flanker

It was the USSR’s best plane—and it still packs one heck of a punch.
Robert Farley
July 22, 2016
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To the West, most of the legendary Soviet aircraft of the Cold War came from the design bureau Mikoyan Gurevitch, which spawned such aircraft as the MiG-15 “Fagot,” MiG-21 “Fishbed,” MiG-25 “Foxbat” and MiG-29 “Fulcrum.” The single best Soviet fighter of the Cold War, however, was Sukhoi’s Su-27 “Flanker.” Intended both to defeat U.S. fighters over central Europe in a NATO-Warsaw Pact conflict and to patrol the airspace of the Soviet Union against U.S. bomber incursions, the Su-27 survived the end of the Cold War to become one of the world’s premier export fighters.

Origins

The Flanker emerged as part of the high part of the high-low fighter mix that both the United States and the Soviet Union adopted in the 1970s and 1980s. In the U.S. Air Force this manifested in the F-15 and F-16; in the U.S. Navy, the F-14 and F/A-18. The MiG-29 “Fulcrum” played the light role in the Soviet partnership.

Sukhoi designed the Flanker with the capabilities of the F-15 Eagle firmly in mind, and the aircraft that emerged resembles the fast, heavily armed, long-ranged Eagle in many ways. Whereas the Eagle looks healthy and well-fed, the Flanker has a gaunt, hungry appearance. Although designed as an air superiority aircraft, the Su-27 (much like the Eagle) has proven flexible enough to adapt to interceptor and ground strike roles. Sukhoi has also developed a wide family of variants, specialized for particular missions but retaining overall multirole capabilities.

The Su-27 entered service more slowly than its fourth-generation counterparts in the United States (or the MiG-29, for that matter). A series of disastrous tests bedeviled the program’s early years, with several pilots dying in early versions of the Flanker. As it entered service in the mid-1980s, production problems slowed its transition to front-line status. And of course, the end of the Cold War curtailed the overall production run of the aircraft.

The Su-27’s capabilities are formidable. The Flanker can reach Mach 2.35 with a thrust-to-weight ratio above one (depending on fuel load). It can carry up to eight air-to-air missiles (generally of short to medium range; other variants specialize in Beyond Visual Range combat) or an array of bombs and missiles. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Su-27 can carry out a bewildering array of maneuvers, many of which have delighted air show audiences across Russia and Europe.

The basic Su-27 frame has proven remarkably flexible. The Russian Air Force has modified most of its existing Flanker fleet with a variety of advanced avionics, improving its air-to-air capacity and also giving it an effective ground attack capability. Several Flanker variants have acquired their own designations, especially on the export side.

Export

The original version of the Flanker has enjoyed tremendous export success, and still flies in eleven air forces around the world. The bulk of aircraft fly in Russian (359) and Chinese (fifty-nine) service. In some smoldering conflicts (Russia-Ukraine, Ethiopia-Eritrea, Vietnam-China) both sides fly Su-27s. Overall, 809 Flankers have entered service, plus large production orders for several variants.

The transfer of Su-27s to China caused a surprising amount of friction between Moscow and Beijing. China purchased some Flankers off the shelf, agreed to coproduce another batch, and acquired a license for production of additional aircraft. However, Russia soon accused China of violating the terms of the agreement by installing its own avionics on the J-11 (as the Chinese designated their own Flankers), appropriating Russian intellectual property and developing a carrier variant (eventually the J-16). The dispute cooled Russian enthusiasm for arms exports to China, a situation that persists today.

Combat

For such a remarkable aircraft, the Su-27 has seen relatively little combat. It has flown combat missions in several theaters across the world, although it has yet to serve in a sustained air superiority campaign. Flankers flew in some of the wars that characterized the disintegration of the Soviet Union, and have constituted the core of Russian airpower in the Wars of Russian Reconsolidation. Indeed, Su-27s have flown on both sides of the spasmodic conflict in Ukraine. Su-27s in Russian service also currently fly in Syria. In foreign service, the Su-27 has flown in the Angolan Civil War and the Ethiopia-Eritrea War, scoring its only air-to-air victories (over Eritrean MiG-29s) in the latter.

The Su-27 was the last of the major fourth-generation fighters to enter service, and has proven an exceedingly successful design. Big enough and powerful enough to sustain a number of modifications and improvements, the Flanker should continue to see service (and even production) for quite some time. This is especially true given the uncertainty associated with the future of the PAK FA, the fifth-generation stealth fighter intended to replace both the MiG-29 and the Su-27.

Robert Farley, a frequent contributor to the National Interest, is author of The Battleship Book. He serves as a senior lecturer at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce at the University of Kentucky. His work includes military doctrine, national security and maritime affairs. He blogs at Lawyers, Guns and Money, Information Dissemination and the Diplomat.

Image: Sukhoi Su-27SM. Wikimedia Commons/Fedor Leukhin

guys these people are actually sying that the su27 is lesser than f15 in maneuverability , most notably , they are only judging them in energy maneuverability

GarryB wrote:

During exercises I have read of F-15s going up against Su-27UBs where each aircraft would start in front of the other aircraft (ie the other aircraft starting on their 6)and have to manouver to get the enemy aircraft off their tail.

They did this repeatedly starting with the Su-30 in front and with the F-15 in front and in every case the F-15 could not lose its Su-30 tail, while the Su-30 repeatedly lost its F-15 tail.