Russian Civil War Thread

Hi, I'm new to this site and hope you can help.
I am very interested in finding out information with regards to the platoon and company make-up of both opposing Russian sides during the Russian Civil War, after WW1.  I would be very grateful for as much guidance as possible.

Marco

Marco1964 wrote:Hi, I'm new to this site and hope you can help.
I am very interested in finding out information with regards to the platoon and company make-up of both opposing Russian sides during the Russian Civil War, after WW1. I would be very grateful for as much guidance as possible.

Marco

What kind of platoon and companies? There were many different compositions for some types as it was just a hodgepodge of forces thrown together until the Red Army got off the ground. The Whites never had a real composition commanality.

Hi Vladimir,

At the moment, it's more for the infantry composition on platoon and company level. I think, deep down, I had a sneaking suspicion that many of the forces, at that time, were just thrown together. But anything to go on would just be fantastic Also, information on cavalry and artillery would be of use as well.
Another period I am looking at is the Baltic campaigns of 1919 - which I'm also finding very interesting.

Marco

Marco1964 wrote:Hi Vladimir,

At the moment, it's more for the infantry composition on platoon and company level. I think, deep down, I had a sneaking suspicion that many of the forces, at that time, were just thrown together. But anything to go on would just be fantastic Also, information on cavalry and artillery would be of use as well.
Another period I am looking at is the Baltic campaigns of 1919 - which I'm also finding very interesting.

Marco

I doubt if I can find White forces composition, you do best just to look at Imperial Russian makeup of WWI. I will see what I can find for the early days of the Red Army which should give you the best picture.

Many thanks for that Vladimir - it will be very helpful. I will follow up on the Imperial Russian make-up for WW1.

Cheers, Marco

This source has alot of good information about the early Red Army including artillery, cavalry units... in Russian

http://lib.rus.ec/b/72982/read

Thanks for the link to that particular site. I managed to get it translated (phew!) and you're right, it is an excellent source for great information about the early Red Army. The illustration plates are wonderful as well - infact fantastic. I am always fascinated by old military photos and there were certainly a lot of really intersting ones. Are there any other archives, that you know of, which have photos from this period?

Marco1964 wrote:Thanks for the link to that particular site. I managed to get it translated (phew!) and you're right, it is an excellent source for great information about the early Red Army. The illustration plates are wonderful as well - infact fantastic. I am always fascinated by old military photos and there were certainly a lot of really intersting ones. Are there any other archives, that you know of, which have photos from this period?

That photos have period from 1918 to 1922. Look at that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War
Here you can see some information about that Civil War and pictures of soldiers

Pirate wrote:

Marco1964 wrote:Thanks for the link to that particular site. I managed to get it translated (phew!) and you're right, it is an excellent source for great information about the early Red Army. The illustration plates are wonderful as well - infact fantastic. I am always fascinated by old military photos and there were certainly a lot of really intersting ones. Are there any other archives, that you know of, which have photos from this period?

That photos have period from 1918 to 1922. Look at that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War
Here you can see some information about that Civil War and pictures of soldiers

Hello Pirate,

Many thanks for the link It certainly has a great deal of information and photo references which will be extremely useful.

Cheers,

Marco

Just see these videos

http://www.mediafire.com/file/lzfjfhzkhdj/Russian_Revolution.rmvb
http://www.mediafire.com/file/dmnvfmz4jzw/Russian_Revolution-01.rmvb

The positions of the Allied expeditionary forces and of the White Armies in European Russia, 1919



Numbers of allied soldiers who were present in the indicated regions of Russia:

• 600 French and British troops landed in Arkhangelsk

• A number of British troops in Vladivostok.

• 23,351 Greeks, who withdrew after three months (part of I Army Corps under Maj. Gen. Konstantinos Nider, comprising 2nd and 13th Infantry Divisions, in the Crimea, and around Odessa and Kherson)

• 13,000 Americans (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)

• 11,500 Estonians in northwestern Russia

• 2,500 Italians (in the Arkhangelsk region and Siberia)

• 2,300 Chinese (in the Vladivostok region)

• 150 Australians (mostly in the Arkhangelsk regions)

• A number of Romanian troops in Bessarabia.

• 15,000 Japanese soldiers in the Eastern region

• 4,192 Canadians in Vladivostok, 600 Canadians in Arkhangelsk

As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

jhelb wrote:As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the  Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

When could Russia take revenge? The USSR was busy trying to get even out of Brest-Litovsk during the attempted Revolution through Europe (Aka Soviet-Polish War of late 1919-1921) on a side note, the USSR is a great part of the Great Britain's decolonization woes (be the help to Turkey or after WW2/GPW its aid to the African nations in need of liberation).

Furthermore, just look at the UK now...just a sad island clinging hard to stolen money and derelict political system...

KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore, just look at the UK now...just a sad island clinging hard to stolen money and derelict political system...

Good point. But note that with this stolen money they are punching above their weight the world over. Also, they have one of the best Intelligence Service in the world that will allow them to create trouble globally in the near future. Russia is on top of this list.Make no mistake about it.

jhelb wrote:As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the  Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

The bolsheviks were soon about to use poison gas against russian peasants themselves. Not to mention murdering scores by more "conventional" means. Nobody in the bolshevik leadership cared one jot about the lives of innocent russians. They were a bunch of murderers themselves.

Cucumber Khan wrote:

jhelb wrote:As we all know that Churchill had a tremendous hatred towards Russians. In fact on his command the UK dropped 50,000 chemical bombs on Russia.

In two months at the end of the First World War, between August and September 1918, Churchill authorised the M Device - shells with chemical tips - to be dropped over villages and military posts held by the  Bolsheviks in northern Russia.

Thousands of innocents civilians were killed across Northern Russia.


My question is why did Russia never avenge this war crime?

The bolsheviks were soon about to use poison gas against russian peasants themselves. Not to mention murdering scores by more "conventional" means. Nobody in the bolshevik leadership cared one jot about the lives of innocent russians. They were a bunch of murderers themselves.

It's funny because the Tambov Rebellion had it been quelled by the Tsarist authorities would have meant the whole population displaced and killed not "thousands" and Northern Russia? Tambov is Northern Russia now? And it is also funny because the guys who rebelled against the Bolo's were Bolo's themselves. Nevermind the fact that it became very clear that the War Communism measures were ultimately the only fit ones to actually stay independent, something the said peasants, like always, saw less relevant than their local economy. Personally, being Albanian and having had my own area suffer from out of touch, archaic Village elders back in the Ottoman times I couldn't agree more with dekulakisation and the process of generally having a self-counscient population. While the Tambov rebellion was a far more grey matter than Bolo's bad, Anto's good, the crux is that the underpinnings of that crisis were the fact that the Russuian peasantry was burden to the level of development of the whole nation. And the fact that kulaks tried time and again to break the equality line by holding back grain, currency and manpower is yet to be disproved by any historian. The fact that the westerners don't like to talk about the real issue peasantry posed to most of them during the 18th-19th modernisation period (and for some like Italy, Portugal or even Bavaria well into the 20th century) is a telltale that the peasant problem has always been a burden.

At the end the violence and monstruosity of the Bolo's was a distinctive feature of how the federal-local economical interest dispute plaid out everywhere (hint think about the US). A full scale civil war will all the state of the art inputs you had then.

GarryB wrote:Amusing that the Bolsheviks are still considered a murderous regime even today, yet the sins of the British and Germans and Japanese and Americans are forgotten... it is a very powerful thing to write history... shame it is so badly misused in the west to colour everything...

To say that the Bolsheviks were murderers does not mean denying that the foreign occupiers also were.

Svyatoslavich wrote:

GarryB wrote:Amusing that the Bolsheviks are still considered a murderous regime even today, yet the sins of the British and Germans and Japanese and Americans are forgotten... it is a very powerful thing to write history... shame it is so badly misused in the west to colour everything...

To say that the Bolsheviks were murderers does not mean denying that the foreign occupiers also were.

true, true

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