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Spacecraft "Liana" put into production
Spacecraft "Liana" put into production
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miketheterrible
owais.usmani
Lurk83
Arrow
franco
PapaDragon
George1
Rmf
Mike E
dionis
TR1
Viktor
GarryB
milky_candy_sugar
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20 posters
Liana reconnaissance system
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
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Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
Interesting article
Russia preparing for “Star Wars”
Russia preparing for “Star Wars”
In Russia, work is underway to ensure constant target intelligence. According to Anatoly Savin, the scientific director of JSC Almaz-Antey, an “original system of space intelligence” has been created which allows for detection and tracking the movement of US carrier-based compounds, as well as strategic NATO submarines, in the oceans.
“We began to keep virtually all of the world's oceans under constant surveillance,” he added.
Additionally, in the near future, expansion of the network of autonomous radar (RLS) in the Arctic region has been planned.
GarryB likes this post
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Join date : 2009-08-25
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Location : Croatia
Nicely coming along a powerful set of tools for the RF
To develop military space system "Liane" with devices "Lotus-C" and "Pion-NKS"
To develop military space system "Liane" with devices "Lotus-C" and "Pion-NKS"
He pointed out that creation and operation of an orbital cluster of military satellites was a task of major importance.
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George1- Posts : 18498
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Models of the satellites of the system of space target designation ("Liana").
PapaDragon- Posts : 13456
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Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
Kosmos 2528 launched, delivered to orbit and handed over to user. Guys at Plasetsk don't mess around unlike some...
https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/113366/
George1- Posts : 18498
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It is the 3rd Lotos-S1 satellite launched which are one component of the Liana ELINT system.
https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/lotos.htm
https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/lotos.htm
George1- Posts : 18498
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More info here:
http://russianforces.org/blog/2018/10/cosmos-2458_-_new_lotus-s1_ele.shtml
http://russianforces.org/blog/2018/10/cosmos-2458_-_new_lotus-s1_ele.shtml
George1- Posts : 18498
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Russia completing work on new reconnaissance satellite
The timeframe of its launch largely depends on the developers of space rocketry, the minister said
MOSCOW, March 3. /TASS/. The work on creating the Pion-NKS satellite as an integral part of the Liana radio-electronic reconnaissance system is at its final stage, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Tuesday.
"The Defense Ministry continues its work on creating and maintaining the orbital grouping of military satellites. In December last year, we approved the schedule of completing the work on the Pion-NKS. The timeframe of its launch largely depends on enterprises that are the developers of space rocketry," the defense minister said at a conference call.
The conference call will hear "the reports on what the Berg Radio-Technical Institute and the Arsenal Design Bureau are doing to implement the mapped-out plans," Shoigu said.
https://tass.com/defense/1126007
The timeframe of its launch largely depends on the developers of space rocketry, the minister said
MOSCOW, March 3. /TASS/. The work on creating the Pion-NKS satellite as an integral part of the Liana radio-electronic reconnaissance system is at its final stage, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Tuesday.
"The Defense Ministry continues its work on creating and maintaining the orbital grouping of military satellites. In December last year, we approved the schedule of completing the work on the Pion-NKS. The timeframe of its launch largely depends on enterprises that are the developers of space rocketry," the defense minister said at a conference call.
The conference call will hear "the reports on what the Berg Radio-Technical Institute and the Arsenal Design Bureau are doing to implement the mapped-out plans," Shoigu said.
https://tass.com/defense/1126007
franco- Posts : 7035
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The creation of the Liana marine reconnaissance and target designation system in orbit is nearing completion. Unique satellites will be able to detect enemy ships in any corner of the oceans for thousands of kilometers and accurately aim at them winged "Calibers", as well as hypersonic "Daggers" and "Zircons". What are the prospects for the system, the development of which began back in 1993, was understood by military expert Anton Lavrov.
This year, it is planned to complete the deployment of the Liana space reconnaissance and target designation system, as well as several additional elements of it, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia.
Full article:
https://sawwnhdac36x4app5mw7rkbhgy--iz-ru.translate.goog/1133265/anton-lavrov/dotianulas-do-kosmosa-zavershaetsia-sozdanie-sistemy-razvedki-liana
This year, it is planned to complete the deployment of the Liana space reconnaissance and target designation system, as well as several additional elements of it, sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia.
Full article:
https://sawwnhdac36x4app5mw7rkbhgy--iz-ru.translate.goog/1133265/anton-lavrov/dotianulas-do-kosmosa-zavershaetsia-sozdanie-sistemy-razvedki-liana
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Arrow- Posts : 3412
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So Russia already has the ability to track ships globally by satellite, as was the case with the Legenda system?
GarryB- Posts : 40443
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AFAIK the Legenda system was never fully complete, but to be honest I don't think they wanted it to be complete... they didn't really need complete global coverage of the worlds oceans... just the water around the Soviet Union and immediate allies was good enough.
This new system is very interesting and can be used for rather more than tracking HATO surface ships everywhere... they can also monitor trade patterns and routes and possibly even keep an eye out for pirates operating in various places...
This new system is very interesting and can be used for rather more than tracking HATO surface ships everywhere... they can also monitor trade patterns and routes and possibly even keep an eye out for pirates operating in various places...
Arrow- Posts : 3412
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Is it known what coverage this system has on the seas and oceans?
Lurk83- Posts : 124
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Is it me or is it almost pointless having 2000km range kinzhal etc when they haven't completed Liana. They don't have a single Pion satellite aloft yet? I'm not sure Lotos satellites alone would be sufficient (or preferable) for targeting. Seems like completing Liana should be a no1 priority for Russian military.
owais.usmani- Posts : 1822
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Lurk83 wrote:Is it me or is it almost pointless having 2000km range kinzhal etc when they haven't completed Liana. They don't have a single Pion satellite aloft yet? I'm not sure Lotos satellites alone would be sufficient (or preferable) for targeting. Seems like completing Liana should be a no1 priority for Russian military.
Can you kindly elaborate what has Liana satellites got to do with Kinzhal missiles? They are pretty much the Iskandar ballistic missiles adopted to be carried by Mig-31, their targeting system should work the same as their land based version does.
Lurk83- Posts : 124
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owais.usmani wrote:Lurk83 wrote:Is it me or is it almost pointless having 2000km range kinzhal etc when they haven't completed Liana. They don't have a single Pion satellite aloft yet? I'm not sure Lotos satellites alone would be sufficient (or preferable) for targeting. Seems like completing Liana should be a no1 priority for Russian military.
Can you kindly elaborate what has Liana satellites got to do with Kinzhal missiles? They are pretty much the Iskandar ballistic missiles adopted to be carried by Mig-31, their targeting system should work the same as their land based version does.
My understanding of iskander is that it essentially uses glonass to hit its target and doesn't have active homing seekers etc. How will they target a moving vessel at sea at 2000km, particularly beyond range of radars of their MIG 31k carrier ? It's my understanding that Liana, the replacement of soviet legenda system, is to use Lotos SIGINT satellites and Pion radar satellites to provide targeting for long range cruise missiles against naval targets.
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PapaDragon- Posts : 13456
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Lurk83 wrote:My understanding of iskander is that it essentially uses glonass to hit its target and doesn't have active homing seekers etc....
What is this understanding based on?
Lurk83- Posts : 124
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PapaDragon wrote:Lurk83 wrote:My understanding of iskander is that it essentially uses glonass to hit its target and doesn't have active homing seekers etc....
What is this understanding based on?
My limited knowledge based on Public domain info about the missile is that it uses glonass and some kind of terminal guidance system ? Does it have active homing seekers? Even then what is performing the targeting on a moving target at sea 2000km away before themissile is sent to the general area? Surely an active homing seeker on a missile only has like idk.. 50km range? *guess*
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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It does having sensors. But much of it is kept under wraps.
It's assumed in the meantime before the SATs are done, they rely on various radar systems.
It's assumed in the meantime before the SATs are done, they rely on various radar systems.
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Lurk83- Posts : 124
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miketheterrible wrote:It does having sensors. But much of it is kept under wraps.
It's assumed in the meantime before the SATs are done, they rely on various radar systems.
I hope that's the case and it works. It'd be a bit of a paper tiger if you had such a fast missile with such a long range but no way of accurately hitting moving sea targets at such a range. Would love to see a test in a sea target at range. Haven't heard of one.
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Big_Gazza
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4857
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- Post n°45
Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket launched from Plesetsk space center — Defense Ministry
Big_Gazza Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:42 am
Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket launched from Plesetsk space center — Defense Ministry
source
The "new-generation spacecraft" looks to be the first Pion-NKS ELINT and radar-imaging bird, a development of the previous generation Lotos ELINT. Specifically designed to image ships and provide guidance for long range AShMs.
A constellation of these will make the Pentagram rather concerned for the surviveability of their wallowing (but target-rich) garbage scows aka CVNs.
More info at Zaks site:
MOSCOW, June 26. /TASS/. The space troops of Russia’s Aerospace Forces have conducted a successful launch of a Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket from the Plesetsk space center in northwestern Russia, the Russian Defense Ministry’s press service said.
"At 22:50 Moscow time on Friday, June 25, an operational unit of the Space Forces of the Russian Aerospace Forces has launched a Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket with a new-generation spacecraft for the Russian Defense Ministry from Pad 43/4 of the Russian Defense Ministry’s State Test Cosmodrome Plesetsk in the Arkhangelsk Region," the ministry’s Department of Media Affairs and Information said.
According to the ministry, all pre-launch operations and the blastoff proceeded normally.
"The launch and flight of the carrier rocket were controlled by ground-based equipment of the Space Forces," the ministry said.
Shortly after, the ministry announced the Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket had delivered the new-generation spacecraft into the designated orbit.
"The medium-lift Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket that was launched at 22:50 today, on June 25, from the Russian Defense Ministry’s State Test Cosmodrome Plesetsk in the Arkhangelsk Region, has successfully put into the designated orbit a spacecraft for the Russian Defense Ministry within the scheduled time," the ministry said.
Steady telemetry communication has been established with the spacecraft, and its on-board systems function well.
The spacecraft was placed under control of the ground services of the Titov Main Test and Space Systems Control Center.
After being placed under control, the satellite was designated as Kosmos 2550
source
The "new-generation spacecraft" looks to be the first Pion-NKS ELINT and radar-imaging bird, a development of the previous generation Lotos ELINT. Specifically designed to image ships and provide guidance for long range AShMs.
A constellation of these will make the Pentagram rather concerned for the surviveability of their wallowing (but target-rich) garbage scows aka CVNs.
More info at Zaks site:
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George1- Posts : 18498
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Pion-NKS complements Lotos-S ground surveillance sattelites in liana ELINT system
LMFS- Posts : 5152
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And suddenly, all those claimed over the horizon targetting issues for the Russian AShM simply vanish 
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kvs- Posts : 15829
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I think that there is too much amateur hour dismissive hand flapping about what Kinzhal and similar have for guidance systems.
A satellite assisted system like GPS is the most primitive one out of the possible advanced alternatives to simple ballistic lobbing.
With modern computer resources it is possible to calculate complex trajectory data in the form of nearly continuous course correction
increments. Laser gyroscopes have general utility and are not exclusive to ICBMs and rockets. They are sufficiently precise to
allow high resolution targeting and can track changes in all three spatial axes. Back in the 1960s it was not possible for missiles
to have enough computing resources in the warhead, today it is not an problem.
So a missile can literally feel its way through a complex trajectory calculated at the time of launch. If anything the satellites
just help get more accurate over the horizon data. But they are not absolutely necessary for the Kinzhal. Any sufficiently
precise target position determination enables their use. These spy satellites are useful for tracking targets and the US relies
on such systems. Let's hear the criticism of US missile systems that we hear in these threads about Russian systems.
A satellite assisted system like GPS is the most primitive one out of the possible advanced alternatives to simple ballistic lobbing.
With modern computer resources it is possible to calculate complex trajectory data in the form of nearly continuous course correction
increments. Laser gyroscopes have general utility and are not exclusive to ICBMs and rockets. They are sufficiently precise to
allow high resolution targeting and can track changes in all three spatial axes. Back in the 1960s it was not possible for missiles
to have enough computing resources in the warhead, today it is not an problem.
So a missile can literally feel its way through a complex trajectory calculated at the time of launch. If anything the satellites
just help get more accurate over the horizon data. But they are not absolutely necessary for the Kinzhal. Any sufficiently
precise target position determination enables their use. These spy satellites are useful for tracking targets and the US relies
on such systems. Let's hear the criticism of US missile systems that we hear in these threads about Russian systems.
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Hole- Posts : 11100
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Pictures of civilian surveillance sats (like the ones Roskosmos and Yandex have in service) are enough for Tsirkon.
GarryB- Posts : 40443
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You could as well ask how a small corvette sitting in the Caspian Sea can locate a weapons cache in Syria and launch a 2,500km range subsonic missile to attack it.
And Kinzhal is moving at about 9 times faster than the Kalibr missile.
The target is a moving target in the case of Kinzhal but the target wont detect the missile launch and may not even notice the incoming threat till it is very close because it probably flys at a rather high trajectory that normal AWACS aircraft wont be monitoring normally.
Iskander has various guidance options including optical, radar and basically ground coordinates and inertial guidance.
I would think that the size of the aircraft carrier target means optical guidance would be totally fine for that job and also completely passive.
Most of their large radar guided heavy supersonic missiles had their own radar and communicated target information between the missiles in flight and back to the launch platform... the initial target information could have come from a variety of sources located closer to the target.
And Kinzhal is moving at about 9 times faster than the Kalibr missile.
The target is a moving target in the case of Kinzhal but the target wont detect the missile launch and may not even notice the incoming threat till it is very close because it probably flys at a rather high trajectory that normal AWACS aircraft wont be monitoring normally.
Iskander has various guidance options including optical, radar and basically ground coordinates and inertial guidance.
I would think that the size of the aircraft carrier target means optical guidance would be totally fine for that job and also completely passive.
Most of their large radar guided heavy supersonic missiles had their own radar and communicated target information between the missiles in flight and back to the launch platform... the initial target information could have come from a variety of sources located closer to the target.