AIM-120 AMRAAM

ahmedfire wrote:i also found anice point

With an IIR missile and high speed and a datalink a Su-35 with its L band wing mounted AESA might detect a datalink transmission in open space where its X band radar sees nothing or a tiny blip.

Fire an IIR missile on that bearing at very high speed to prevent time for whatever it is from moving away and if the missile as it flys along detects the IR signature of an F-22 then the Flanker pilot can command it to attack and perhaps launch another weapon on a similar bearing to see if it is alone.

The Su-35 would be able to carry 8 or more of these missiles so launching a few on a bearing wont leave the aircraft unarmed and vulnerable.

There is a big problem with this. The L-Band wingtip radars are too small to actually detect something as stealthy as say, a Raptor from beyond the Raptor's firing range (IIRC, the L-Band's range is 40 km). 40 km isn't far, but it's farther than the Su-35's Irbis to see a Raptor from. However, you can argue that the Su-35 pilot "detected" a radio transmission from the F-22, however unlikely that maybe, that's easily countered by not talking. Anyways, IIRC, the Su-35's RCS is about 0.1 m2 (no idea if it was clean or not), so, that means that the AN/APG-77 can see the Su-35 from over 110 km way, and because it's an AESA, the AN/APG-77 can also intercept any chatter the Su-35 is having. AFAIK, the AIM-120D's range is now 180 km, so 2-3 shots at the Su-35, if not more, if not than run, etc.

Sorry to expand it into a F-22 v.s. Su-35 topic :v

the AIM-120D's range is now 180 km, so 2-3 shots at the Su-35, if not more, if not than run, etc.

Mindstorm wrote:

There is a big problem with this. The L-Band wingtip radars are too small to actually detect something as stealthy as say, a Raptor from beyond the Raptor's firing range (IIRC, the L-Band's range is 40 km). 40 km isn't far, but it's farther than the Su-35's Irbis to see a Raptor from. However, you can argue that the Su-35 pilot "detected" a radio transmission from the F-22, however unlikely that maybe, that's easily countered by not talking. Anyways, IIRC, the Su-35's RCS is about 0.1 m2 (no idea if it was clean or not), so, that means that the AN/APG-77 can see the Su-35 from over 110 km way, and because it's an AESA, the AN/APG-77 can also intercept any chatter the Su-35 is having. AFAIK, the AIM-120D's range is now 180 km, so 2-3 shots at the Su-35, if not more, if not than run, etc.

Sorry to expand it into a F-22 v.s. Su-35 topic :v

IronsightSniper from what you have just writed i get the impression that you use the comical figures and ideas widely spreaded on low level media by people with ,at best,very scarce knowledges,if anything, on the subjects of which they talks .
The often cited (and often out of turn) figures of RCS for LO/VLO aircraft ,in the order of -30 or -40 dBSM refer to very narrow,almost academic,reradiating cones for co-planar radar wave incidence in high frequency scattering regimes,an occurrence almost completely utopical in the three dimensional "many vs many" engagements with net-linked aircraft and corollary aid assets on both sides characterizing a conflict against a serious enemy.
Even only very small angular variations from that "ideal" inception angle produce exponential increases in relative RCS, up to some orders of magnitude in few dozen of degrees of variation.
That is the motivation for which Eurofigther consortium declared that from internal simulations resulted that a group of 4 Typhoons in OCA operation at protection of an AWACS was capable to win 85% of times against an attacking squadron of 8 F-35s, mantaining a formation allowing a relative overlapping of the radar footprint from angles of 25 degrees or more.


That is also the motivation for which russian experts (and here i remember to you that almost the whole theoretical structure at the basis of modern stealth was developed in URSS and litteraly imported in USA) prefer to employ with LO/VLO objects the effective average area of refraction ; the figures associated to that measure are surely less "mythical" or "hollywoodian" than the purely academic RCS figures for narrow perfect head-on angles,but represent the REAL order of magnitude of the effective refraction area of VLO aircrfat in operative situations.
Aircraft like F-22 or PAKFA have effective area of refraction in the range of 0,3 - 0,5 square meters,light years far from the promoting sensationalistic figures selled in open media.

www.inosmi.ru/army/20100313/158588233.html

the AIM-120D's range is now 180 km, so 2-3 shots at the Su-35, if not more, if not than run, etc.

From where come out from those comical figures, designation-system . net ? F-16 . net ?

Any professional, serious source give to AIM-120D at range at maximum in the 100-110 Km area ,

www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.181/pub_detail.asp

and also here wee talk obviously of an head-on engagement with a cooperative target.
Truly IronsightSniper ,try to push quickly out of the window ,that immense series of comical platitudes on those subjects (including an X band AESA radar used to intercept data links in different bands...ha ha) which you can ear in low level media, because them are a true offence to your intelligence.

Quick FYI, we're not simulating actual battle conditions as that is far more complex than a simple discussion regarding the Su-35's L-Band radars, thus, I am sorry to inform you that this "simulation" is 1v1, head-to-head, somewhere over the ocean, and some altitude, without any support.

....The point still stands, F-22 sees first, F-22 shoots first, F-22 kills first.

A fully passive IIR seeker however can be looking from launch all the way for potential targets with a datalink back to the launch aircraft warning it if the target has made a significant course or speed change that might lead it to not be where it was expected when the missile was launched.

GarryB wrote:

The F-22 is an excellent aircraft but with only 189 of them and their limit to only carrying AMRAAM as a long range weapon I think your view of the situation is a little narrow.