The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

arpakola wrote:

hysteria...

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Christ... it's mortifying and pathetic at the same time.  

New updates in the combat front..

“In the first half of the day July 19 active fighting took place in the vicinity of Luhansk. The Ukrainian army tried to approach the city from two sides… apparently facing two tasks: to cut off the road to Donetsk and unblock the airport. In both directions, the aggressor was fought off by the LNR units… as a result, the enemy sustained serious losses both in manpower and materiel, retreating from its positions,” the press service said. wrote:

More details...

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741496

arpakola wrote:

hysteria...

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http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/russian-transport-of-buk-that-shot-down.html

Its worse than hysteria. Its devious hate filled deceit.
The Sun's headlines are a carbon copy of the lies they made about the Hillsborough disaster. A disaster entirely caused by corrupt and dishonest police (see my link).

The Independent (about as "independent" as a Guantanamo Bay military judge) is owned by Lebedev, another corrupt exile oligarch.

I wonder what these scum would have to say if London was being bombed by Fascists.

____________
Another pt, I wonder if the jet was shot down by the hohols trying to get the Resistance's Su25.
People haven't tended to mention that.

I also wonder if the Ukr Airforce was attempting to hide in the radar shadow of the airliner, with the Ukr air traffic control having been taken over by the hohol military. Using a civillian airliner as a "human shield" so it could bomb Donetsk is surely as bad as shooting it down.

Yet another explanation, maybe the hohols shot the airliner down in a training accident.

Or just deliberately. There's just too much suspicious symbolism and exploiting the disaster for it all to have been innocent.

It's a mess, it's nearly impossible to stick with facts. Hysteria everywhere.

A question for the most educated of you. Due to the short distance from Russia, is it probable that PVO has data of the tragic event? I'm speaking of track or something like that, not statements like "a Kupol was active at the moment". SOC are you here?

I don't need any investigation.. the fact that Ukraine air traffic controllers deviated the commercial malasyan plane from a safe course that they were used to fly into the middle of the war zone ,where many planes where being shot down every week is enough evidence for me ,to point fingers at kiev. They wanted the civilian plane to be destroyed in a false flag event.  Who fired the missiles or if there was a bomb inside is just details.  In the worse case , had Buk defenses and shot it down ,they cannot be blamed for any war crime.. since they are defending their cities from the Ukraine airforce and army that is indiscriminately bombing them.

So the investigation if done correctly will only reveal ,only details ,of a major false flag event ,that a Boeing Malasyan plane was guided by Ukraine to a warzone deliberately to be destroyed with the intention to gain world political support in their criminal war in easthern Ukraine.

What is for me the epitome of incompetence and deserves Putin to be kicked from his seat , is that the lack of monitoring Russia have in the war zone.. they should spend all the money in the world to fully monitor any thing that moves in air and in ground in eastern Ukraine.. Because NATO special forces ,spies are everywhere inside eastern Ukraine.. and they could launch missiles ,drones at Russia to provoke a fight between Russia and Ukraine..  THis malasyan plane incident is just the start of the false flags.. wait for more..

An aerostat Radar ,could have fully recorded every little bird that fly in the war zone ,including what hit the malasyan plane and from where the missile came if it was a missile. Were are speaking here
at the incompetence of Russia to monitor what happens 30 km past the Russian border. THis is insanely stupid ,what the hell is Russia waiting to realize there have been a declaration of war already on Russia ,and is for now in proxy mode using ukraine ,and they need to monitor fully monitor what is happening in Ukraine Border?  What fucking thing needs to happen for Putin to realize he needs to monitor the fucking border? not only air but also what happens in the ground.   Wish i could Slap Putin face , so the incompetent president wake up. Russia do not knows what destroyed a plane flying just 30km of its borders. do not have evidence to provide to the investigation what hit the plane and from where came a missile.. Not even have information of the supposed Ukraine planes chasing the Malasyan plane. this is total failure from Russia.  They have all the tools in the world to monitor the border or Russia. But pretty much looks like Russia is just sitting on his hands doing NOTHING..  they continue to be shelled every day ,civilians killed and they without a fucking of the place used for those attack.. Something that powerful Infrared Cameras on the air could detect and record for evidence against kiev.

Ewww... I really mad at the fact that ppl easily pointing finger and even started flamewars everywhere (Oh yes..Russophobes are practically masturbating with both of their hands now while on the other side busy started flamewars or conspiracies), using little amount of brain created by God and use newsmedia as feed... Now we have that video depicting BUK TELAR being carried with flatbed, quite blurry i see with two missiles not visible and they (ppl) Simply calling the damn thing was the one shooting down the jet. Damned it's simply like i arrived at scene of a murder holding knife and being accused as the murderer without examination.

Why the hell no one started analysis about who shoot down the thing based on course of the jet and probable deployment of both Ukrainian PVO and Rebel unit.

I'm still have some questions regarding this strange stuff...

1. When the plane was shot down.. Not when it crashed, It's a big airliner we have there..One or two BUK's won't make it down like a bricks..The plane may attempt to glide and were happen to crash at rebel territories that also deploy BUK's

2.Where are the Ukrainian PVO unit having BUK deployed..Their locations especially, would be happy if we're also see some sort of radar footage.


Those are my questions... I really hate making wild guessess.

Firebird wrote:
Another pt, I wonder if the jet was shot down by the hohols trying to get the Resistance's Su25.
People haven't tended to mention that.

I think that can't be a valid option, because, the only valid option is the one option that has already been proven, and that is the use of the airliner, by the Nazi puppets' "puppetmasters", in a combined false-flag/human-shield exercise. The key to the proof of this assertion is the change, on 17th, in the flight path used by MH17 to take it into another country (Novorossiya), which happens to be a war zone. Also, this happened right after the encirclement of the Nazi forces by the Novorussian forces.

Another point that is implicitly proven here is that, because, Malaysian Airlines changed the route on 17th, the order should have come from the higher-ups that also control the Malaysian Airlines, not by any local Ukrainian structure.

Another corollary (almost a corollary) of this proof is that the airliner was not hit by a missile at all; it was destroyed by a bomb planted in it. The reason follows an assertion made by MalAir to the effect that “In the hours before the incident, a number of other passenger aircraft from different carriers used the same route". If the "puppetmasters" wanted to use a missile to destroy an airliner they wouldn't have needed to change the MalAir's flight path; they could have just shot down another airliner to achieve their goals.

zino wrote:Due to the short distance from Russia, is it probable that PVO has data of the tragic event? I'm speaking of track or something like that, not statements like "a Kupol was active at the moment".

The Russians have that info, except that, very very very seldom in Russia's history they have provided that kind of info.

If they wanted to provide that kind information, they would have very simply pointed the finger of blame towards "US", but that's not the plan.

Guys, I found a whole list of videos done with "Igor Bes Bezler" in it. At first I only found 2, now there are 5.

The guy named "Igor Bes Bezler" who was supposedly part of the "leaked" rebel "phone conversation" is a fictional / imposted character. 2 actors are so far known to act as "Igor Bes Bezler".

Their acting folios:






start from 1:11



and of course



The actor who played as "Igor Bes Bezler" was reconised as an ex criminal in the region in the 2nd video.

Every time "Igor Bes Bezler" shows up, it's always after a supposedly "bad" thing or "crime" committed by the rebels and he "exposed" everything. If he indeed exposed such bad information on the rebels and what he said is true, he won't be alive today. At least he'd be kicked out of the rebellion long time ago.

However, not only that he managed to stay alive, he actually remains in the rebels as an important figure, and is able to pump out more videos / audios to show more "crimes" committed by the rebels.

That's not possible.

The "leaked" rebel "phone conversation" is fictional / staged, period.

The west main focus is at who fired the missile on the plane.. and suggesting Rebels and or Russia did it..

But the real focus should be WHO authorized a plane to fly over a war zone? There is absolutely no reason why the Malasyan plane need to travel there. he could have taken the routes of previous days that were 100% totally safe away of the warzone.. Leading a Commercial Airline into the middle of a war zone is a criminal regardless if the plane is shotdown or not. Is placing at risk civilian plane. If for example the plane experience problems with an engine will have to fly lower or even do an emergency landing.. and the place the malasyan plane flew was extremely dangerous. I hope RUssia manage to bring this argument in United Nations. The Civilians planes and warzones are not compatible.. No civilians planes were lost in Syria war more than 3 years.. no foreign planes flew over Syria. but here you have in Ukraine ,that from all the territory the country have.. a malasyan is driven by Kiev air controlers to flight precisely over the combat zone.. LOL Sorry but i don't eat that.

The ultimate authority over the transit route over any commercial plane is the nation that is air space is being used. So it was Ukraine 100% responsability to ensure that no International flights enter the airspace that its airforce was using to bomb cities. It pretty much looks like kiev using as a shield the Malasyan plane. In a real court ,i don't think the Novorossiya republic could be held accounted for the Malasyan plane crash.. even IF.. it was true Rebels did it with a BUk System.

Russia supplied missile launchers to separatists, U.S. official says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukranian-officials-accuse-rebel-militias-of-moving-bodies-tampering-with-evidence/2014/07/19/bef07204-0f1c-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html



It seems my government has just jumped the shark.

Wow.. just wow.. LOLOLOL

The video uploaded by Ukraine security serviced on youtube.. to Proof the Rebels downed the plane..
even though was uploaded in same day of the accident.. the video was encoded a day EARLIER of the accident.
LOLOL

This clearly proof ,that the Ukraine intelligence services ,the authors of the video of Rebels discussion about the plane ,already new a day BEFORE of the accident ,that a major plane incident will happen that will be shot down with civilians killed and that will be blamed on the rebels.. LOLOL  This is crazy..  The smocking gun evidence ,that directly links Ukraine Government with the shot down of malasyan plane ,is the very same video they used as "proof" the rebels did it.. LOLOL    


Very Interesting report indeed ,but try to watch the report without being distracted by the
amazing boobs of the girl..    

Vann7 wrote:Wow.. just wow.. LOLOLOL

The video uploaded by Ukraine security serviced on youtube.. to Proof the Rebels downed the plane..
even though was uploaded in same day of the accident.. the video was encoded a day EARLIER of the accident.
LOLOL

This clearly proof ,that the Ukraine intelligence services ,the authors of the video of Rebels discussion about the plane ,already new a day BEFORE of the accident ,that a major plane incident will happen that will be shot down with civilians killed and that will be blamed on the rebels.. LOLOL  This is crazy..  The smocking gun evidence ,that directly links Ukraine Government with the shot down of malasyan plane ,is the very same video they used as "proof" the rebels did it.. LOLOL    


Very Interesting report indeed ,but try to watch the report without being distracted by the
amazing boobs of the girl..    

Guys you should be very careful with infowar.com and Alex Jones. Many think that he's an American government agent and he occupies / dominates the realm of alternative media and he sometimes dis-inform / make-truth-seekers-look-stupid in a subtle way.

However I myself didn't find anything wrong in this video in particular, except they seem to have that American corp culture smell all over them.

Again not saying we shouldn't trust him, I just say we should treat anything that comes from America with caution. Don't be surprised if his next video is a complete stupid one (Alien / UFO / mind control / ghosts etc). But he seems to be OK though.

Also I listed out a bunch of videos on the previous page as proof that the "intercepted rebel phone conversations" was a staged act. Why no comments? Am I imagining things or not? Please tell me what you guys think. Thank you.

"the" BUK .. suposengly belonging to Donbass.




and the picture here  suposingly being in Lugansk area of the same buk


notice that there is NO blue ribon on the truck



just collecting  pictures from Ukranian BUKs .. perhaps from Crimea also .. presented as evidence

arpakola wrote:"the" BUK .. suposengly belonging to Donbass.




and the picture here  suposingly being in Lugansk area of the same buk


notice that there is NO blue ribon on the truck

just collecting  pictures from Ukranian BUKs .. perhaps from Crimea also .. presented as evidence

All of these images does not prove it's the Buk that shoot down the MH-17. This is just like i brought a knife to a place of a dead body while in fact i'm not the one who killed him.

onwiththewar wrote:Also I listed out a bunch of videos on the previous page as proof that the "intercepted rebel phone conversations" was a staged act. Why no comments? Am I imagining things or not? Please tell me what you guys think. Thank you.

In the Orwellian society disinformation is a given fact; so a lot of these details are actually only distractions.

Everything that I have ever heard from Alex Jones were always there to distract.

With respect to what I think is important about the MH17 issue, I have mentioned them in my posts above.

Rebels destroyed ukr army position near Krasnodon:













Current Situation in Ukraine (Unconfirmed map) from Reddit

What does the west care about the truth, it has already decided who the good guys are already and the good guys don't shoot down planes even as provocations... that is why those Iranians killed on that airbus the US navy shot down in the late 1980s are all still alive...

It is funny that Kiev can shell an area of its own country and kill women and children and no one in the west seems to care, but for some reason a civilian airliner is diverted over a civil war zone and is shot down by who knows which side and all of a sudden some one must pay for this outrage.   

arpakola wrote:"the" BUK .. suposengly belonging to Donbass.




and the picture here  suposingly being in Lugansk area of the same buk


notice that there is NO blue ribon on the truck



just collecting  pictures from Ukranian BUKs .. perhaps from Crimea also .. presented as evidence

the missing blue ribbon is clear enough, but the flatbed is also missing its loading-ramps on the rear of the trailer.

and like Stealthflanker stated it does not prove a thing this supposed "evidence".

i really do not believe one bit about the "leaked" rebel conversation either when its time-stamped a day before the murdering/shooting down of MH-17. then there is the Spanish air controller's working in Kiev sending a handfull of tweets pointing the responsibility to Kiev in a manner i only can describe as desperatly trying to get the word out to the world. before he and his co-workers where seized at the Ukrainian ATC immediately after the crash. and the guy is confirmed to actually work for Kiev's ATC.

the reactions i get here in the Netherlands about MH-17 is mostly at first "the russians did it". altough i must say now people cooled off a bit more people start "i do not know, it feels a bit like we where sold the invasion of Iraq at the time". regardless of their opinion, when i bring up the inconsistency's about weapon operation and range, the spanish aircontroller's tweets and seizing of all radar and radio traffic evidence immidiatly after the crash and MH-17's flight path and denied climbing and ordered to descent people start to realise too many facts do not agree with the massive propoganda bullshit going on in the media. and some actually get pissed off and mention bombing Kiev as retaliation if they are responsible.

even a dutch retired general publicly said in the Media that BUK's are not bought on a black-market for 50.000 euro and after a glancing over a manual you know how to operate it. and they need several specialised vehicles and crew to operate effectively. stating "its a state-weapon with trained state-crew".

i just find it frustrating i have to bring up such things while they could have looked it all up themselves on the internet before they see the complete bullshit blame-game going on. or do not even listen to dutch experienced millitary proffesionals saying facts do not fall in place with the media-claims.

Looks indeed Rebels do have some serious weapons there.. Those armored carriers have their turret on the floor.
Whatever it happens , The Donetsk forces needs a lot of work to do.. to retake all their cities back.. capturing the encircled Ukrainians in the south could give them Rebels the negotiating tool to end the war.. However maybe kiev will not retreat even to save 5,000 soldiers.. but still there is a lot of weapons there ,that they will have access .

arpakola wrote:Current Situation in Ukraine (Unconfirmed map) from Reddit

Is this a Nazi variant of the "reality" or there is some truth to it?

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

arpakola wrote:Current Situation in Ukraine (Unconfirmed map) from Reddit

Is this a Nazi variant of the "reality" or there is some truth to it?

Probably some kind of truth in it i dont think the separatists control a much larger area then that.

Of course 'control' is a very fleeting term. That blue territory indicates not where the Ukrainian forces are entrenched, but where the rebels can't spend the numbers to occupy. Case in point - Mariupol, occupied by a couple dozen government troops/NatsGuard for all of an afternoon about a month ago; leaving while being jeered and booed by the locals. And they haven't really turned back up since; maybe there are a few Ukrainian government police now there, I don't know - but certainly it's not under their 'control'. All the Ukrainian forces are concentrated in that ring around the rebels. Behind them; it's pretty much no-mans land, maybe a handful of garrison NatsGuard auxillaries at most.

Ukrainians should be happy that wasn't an american plan that was shot down, if it was i think we would have a war going.