The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

According to an authoritative source, two Su-27 Flankers escorted the Malaysian Boeing 777 minutes before it was hit by one or more missiles.
There are still too many unanswered questions about the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17, 2014. Among them, one of the most important deals with the possible error made by the operator inside the SA-11 “Gadfly” (“Buk”) TELAR (transporter erector launcher and radar) who did fire one or more missiles against a civilian plane.

Indeed, the operators inside the Buk could “read” the Boeing 777′s altitude and transponder and could easily identify the civilian plane enroute from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur flying at FL300 inside the eastern Ukraine’s airspace.

Why did they mistake a large civilian plane for a smaller Ukrainian Air Force surveillance plane?

Just a matter of poor training?

Iranian defense expert Babak Taghvaee believes the mistake was caused by the fact the Malaysian Boeing 777 was escorted over eastern Ukraine. Taghvaee is always very well informed and an extremely reliable source. Therefore, after he provided some details about this activity of the Ukrainian Air Force on ACIG forum thread about the war in Ukraine, we contacted him for some more insight.

Here’s what he wrote to us.

“When the Crimea crisis began, the Ukrainian Air Force air command center quickly forward deployed six Su-27s to the Kulbakino AB. Since beginning of the crisis and the Russia intervention, the 831st TAB has the important task to provide air defense as well as security of whole country. Six fully armed Flankers have always been in the sky especially when the other Ukrainian Air Force airplanes such as transporters and attackers like Fulcrums and Rooks were in the East of Ukraine,” explains Taghvaee.

“But when the Su-25M1 was shot down by the Russia Air Force 6969th AB’s MiG-29 on Jul. 16, the situation and condition became more critical than previous days and more Su-27 sorties were conducted to confront Russian MiG-29s. I believe those two Su-27s were not in sky just for standard practice in that day [Jul. 17], I believe they were involved in HAVCAP (High Asset Value Combat Air Patrol) mission sortie in that day.”

In other words: since the Russian interceptors had downed a Su-25 on the previous days, the Ukrainian escorted all military and civil flights over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17. Including MH17.

“During the UEFA 2012, the 831st TAB and its Flankers had same role, during those competitions they had duty to escort the airliners in FL330 and other routes in case emergency. They played same role during the Sochi Winter Olympics in Russia. They were airborne and they even escorted a hijacked airplane. They were also ready to provide security of all passenger airplanes over Ukraine. They are now following same procedure and they could protect all of the airplanes over Ukraine in-front of Russians since Jul 16.”

Provided the Su-27s were really escorting or (more likely) watching from their CAP station many, if not all, civil flights over Eastern Ukraine for the first time ever on Jul. 17, in the wake of the downing of the Su-25, the operators inside the Buk may have mistaken the Boeing 777 shadowed by/near two Flankers for a high-value plane of the Ukrainian Air Force. On their radar screens, the sight of a large plane with two accompanying (or circling in CAP not too far away) fighter jets was completely new and may only mean the Ukrainians were escorting an important plane. And that would be the reason why they downed it without spending too much time analysing its transponder code and altitude.

NickM wrote:

arpakola wrote:

Ukraine crisis is not irrelevent to this >> http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140715/190943464/US-Dollars-Days-Are-Numbered-as-BRICS-Meet.html   US Dollar’s Days Are Numbered as BRICS Meet

Which planet do you live in ??? BRICS as an alternative to the US or UK ??? You need to add a disclaimer that your source of info is Cartoon Network.

Majority of the people in those BRICS countries are migrating to the US and UK . They have no interest in staying back in those failed states .

Come down here to London and you will see it for yourself , every second individual is from Asia or Africa .

The same is the situation in Australia , Canada , New Zealand and US . Is the reverse true ???

Do you see people from the West migrating to the BRICS ?????

Like it or not the Western world will remain the dominating chip stack in the foreseeable future .

Dig this ,the "rebels/separatist" have shot down the plane & there is zero relation to BRICS .

NickM wrote:

arpakola wrote:

Ukraine crisis is not irrelevent to this >> http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140715/190943464/US-Dollars-Days-Are-Numbered-as-BRICS-Meet.html   US Dollar’s Days Are Numbered as BRICS Meet

Which planet do you live in ??? BRICS as an alternative to the US or UK ??? You need to add a disclaimer that your source of info is Cartoon Network.

Majority of the people in those BRICS countries are migrating to the US and UK . They have no interest in staying back in those failed states .

Come down here to London and you will see it for yourself , every second individual is from Asia or Africa .

The same is the situation in Australia , Canada , New Zealand and US . Is the reverse true ???

Do you see people from the West migrating to the BRICS ?????

Like it or not the Western world will remain the dominating chip stack in the foreseeable future .

Dig this ,the "rebels/separatist" have shot down the plane & there is zero relation to BRICS .

Ukraine bears responsibility for keeping its airspace open to flights like the doomed MH17, says the chief executive of the International Air Transport Association, Tony Tyler.
“Airlines depend on governments and air traffic control authorities to advise which air space is available for flight, and they plan within those limits,” he said. “It is very similar to driving a car. If the road is open, you assume that it is safe. If it’s closed you find an alternate route.”
However, an industry source said in this case, the “road” was more like a toll road, as the cash-strapped Ukrainian government was receiving overflight fees for each commercial flight above its territory and therefore had a financial incentive to keep the airspace open as long as possible.
Three days before MH17 was apparently shot down by a surface-to-air missile, Ukraine had raised the minimum altitude open for commercial flights over the eastern part of its country to 32,000 feet, from 26,000 feet previously after a military cargo jet was downed at 21,000 feet....

arpakola wrote:
Come in the summer in a greek island and you will se how many Brits are beging for a job in the Rhodos or Kretan hotels .. washing plates in the kitchens..

Firebird wrote:People from the West DO move to Russia, and China, and Lat America (LOTS of Americans too!). But they frankly don't want the place to end up like Britistan.

Firebird wrote:But they frankly don't want the place to end up like Britistan.

NickM wrote:

arpakola wrote:

Ukraine crisis is not irrelevent to this >> http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140715/190943464/US-Dollars-Days-Are-Numbered-as-BRICS-Meet.html   US Dollar’s Days Are Numbered as BRICS Meet

Which planet do you live in ??? BRICS as an alternative to the US or UK ??? You need to add a disclaimer that your source of info is Cartoon Network.

Majority of the people in those BRICS countries are migrating to the US and UK . They have no interest in staying back in those failed states .

Come down here to London and you will see it for yourself , every second individual is from Asia or Africa .

The same is the situation in Australia , Canada , New Zealand and US . Is the reverse true ???

Do you see people from the West migrating to the BRICS ?????

Like it or not the Western world will remain the dominating chip stack in the foreseeable future .

Dig this ,the "rebels/separatist" have shot down the plane & there is zero relation to BRICS .

NickM wrote:

arpakola wrote:
Come in the summer in a greek island and you will se how many Brits are beging for a job in the Rhodos or Kretan hotels .. washing plates in the kitchens..

Depends how you define Brits . If by Brits you mean Pakistanis , Indians , Arabs who pass themselves off as Brits then maybe yes . FYI , these chaps wash dishes when they are in the UK as well .

arpakola wrote:Ukraine responsible for airspace safety: IATA
http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/ukraine-responsible-for-airspace-safety-iata-20140720-zuzmp.html

Ukraine bears responsibility for keeping its airspace open to flights like the doomed MH17, says the chief executive of the International Air Transport Association, Tony Tyler.
“Airlines depend on governments and air traffic control authorities to advise which air space is available for flight, and they plan within those limits,” he said. “It is very similar to driving a car. If the road is open, you assume that it is safe. If it’s closed you find an alternate route.”
However, an industry source said in this case, the “road” was more like a toll road, as the cash-strapped Ukrainian government was receiving overflight fees for each commercial flight above its territory and therefore had a financial incentive to keep the airspace open as long as possible.
Three days before MH17 was apparently shot down by a surface-to-air missile, Ukraine had raised the minimum altitude open for commercial flights over the eastern part of its country to 32,000 feet, from 26,000 feet previously after a military cargo jet was downed at 21,000 feet....

medo wrote:

arpakola wrote:Ukraine responsible for airspace safety: IATA
http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/ukraine-responsible-for-airspace-safety-iata-20140720-zuzmp.html

Ukraine bears responsibility for keeping its airspace open to flights like the doomed MH17, says the chief executive of the International Air Transport Association, Tony Tyler.
“Airlines depend on governments and air traffic control authorities to advise which air space is available for flight, and they plan within those limits,” he said. “It is very similar to driving a car. If the road is open, you assume that it is safe. If it’s closed you find an alternate route.”
However, an industry source said in this case, the “road” was more like a toll road, as the cash-strapped Ukrainian government was receiving overflight fees for each commercial flight above its territory and therefore had a financial incentive to keep the airspace open as long as possible.
Three days before MH17 was apparently shot down by a surface-to-air missile, Ukraine had raised the minimum altitude open for commercial flights over the eastern part of its country to 32,000 feet, from 26,000 feet previously after a military cargo jet was downed at 21,000 feet....

This Russian MoD press briefing was interesting. They show with satellite pictures positions of Ukrainian Buk batteries and that suddenly Ukrainian military jet climbing to airliner, which is most probably Su-25 as they could not recognize the type of the plane from radar picture.

http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/21/su-27s-escorted-mh17/

The Aviationist said that airliner was escorted by Ukrainian SU-27 fighters. It could be, that they shadow it from lower altitude, that passengers don't see them.

My opinion is, that Ukrainian Su-27 suddenly climb up to launch IR guided AAM to hit airliner engine to slow it down and than finished by Ukrainian Buk to fall down in Novorussian territory to point finger to Novorussian AD to shot it down. Those chaffs seen on video could be well from the same Su-27, which was still in the area, because one their Buks could lock it too. I wonder why Ukrainian side didn't give any data from their escorting fighters, because escorting mean being in visual contact and their RWR and other equipment would record all situation (even through gun sight video), if Novorussian side actually shot it down, as crown proof of Novorussian missile hitting the airliner and RWR will record direction of Buk tracking radar. Also they could show communication of Ukrainian pilots.

For now Russian side show only radar picture from civil ATC, not from their military radars, ELINT complexes etc. But when needed, they will show them too. i don't know, if Russian civil ATC radar picture is also linked to ICAO or just recorded. If it is also linked in real time to ICAO, that ATC radar picture is a fact about presence of Ukrainian military jet.

I think the circle is slowly closing around Ukraine.

arpakola wrote:

medo wrote:

arpakola wrote:Ukraine responsible for airspace safety: IATA
http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/ukraine-responsible-for-airspace-safety-iata-20140720-zuzmp.html

Ukraine bears responsibility for keeping its airspace open to flights like the doomed MH17, says the chief executive of the International Air Transport Association, Tony Tyler.
“Airlines depend on governments and air traffic control authorities to advise which air space is available for flight, and they plan within those limits,” he said. “It is very similar to driving a car. If the road is open, you assume that it is safe. If it’s closed you find an alternate route.”
However, an industry source said in this case, the “road” was more like a toll road, as the cash-strapped Ukrainian government was receiving overflight fees for each commercial flight above its territory and therefore had a financial incentive to keep the airspace open as long as possible.
Three days before MH17 was apparently shot down by a surface-to-air missile, Ukraine had raised the minimum altitude open for commercial flights over the eastern part of its country to 32,000 feet, from 26,000 feet previously after a military cargo jet was downed at 21,000 feet....

This Russian MoD press briefing was interesting. They show with satellite pictures positions of Ukrainian Buk batteries and that suddenly Ukrainian military jet climbing to airliner, which is most probably Su-25 as they could not recognize the type of the plane from radar picture.

http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/21/su-27s-escorted-mh17/

The Aviationist said that airliner was escorted by Ukrainian SU-27 fighters. It could be, that they shadow it from lower altitude, that passengers don't see them.

My opinion is, that Ukrainian Su-27 suddenly climb up to launch IR guided AAM to hit airliner engine to slow it down and than finished by Ukrainian Buk to fall down in Novorussian territory to point finger to Novorussian AD to shot it down. Those chaffs seen on video could be well from the same Su-27, which was still in the area, because one their Buks could lock it too. I wonder why Ukrainian side didn't give any data from their escorting fighters, because escorting mean being in visual contact and their RWR and other equipment would record all situation (even through gun sight video), if Novorussian side actually shot it down, as crown proof of Novorussian missile hitting the airliner and RWR will record direction of Buk tracking radar. Also they could show communication of Ukrainian pilots.

For now Russian side show only radar picture from civil ATC, not from their military radars, ELINT complexes etc. But when needed, they will show them too. i don't know, if Russian civil ATC radar picture is also linked to ICAO or just recorded. If it is also linked in real time to ICAO, that ATC radar picture is a fact about presence of Ukrainian military jet.

I think the circle is slowly closing around Ukraine.

see those sat pics ??
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

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http://stat.function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=11970654@egNews

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 !! ??

Strizh wrote:Кроме того, российскими средствами контроля воздушной обстановки зафиксирован набор высоты самолетом украинских ВВС, предположительно Су-25, в направлении малазийского «Боинга-777». Удаление самолета Су-25 от «Боинга-777» составило от 3до 5 км.

По своим характеристикам Су-25 способен кратковременно достигать высоты в 10000 м. В состав его штатного вооружения входит ракета класса «воздух-воздух» Р-60, способная захватывать и поражать цель на удалении до 12 км, а гарантированно на дальности до 5 км.

Could somebody translate this and post this on mp net I cant read the crap there anymore.
Su25 was 3-5km away Su25 can reach 10km not in a sustained flight but for a short period. Thats what he said.

medo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgS7-b3FLn8

In this video is very important to note, that at 22:16 they point on Ukrainian military jet and it have altitude 36000 ft, what is around 12000 m, so it fly higher than airliner after shot down.

NickM wrote:
The plane that got shot down was Malaysian . Naturally the pilot did not receive as much training as say British Airways pilots do . So they are basically incompetent . A missile was fired & the pilot was unable to dodge it . Why is it that BA or Lufthansa or KLM aircrafts that fly over that same airspace do NOT get shot down ?

Airbornewolf wrote:

medo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgS7-b3FLn8

In this video is very important to note, that at 22:16 they point on Ukrainian military jet and it have altitude 36000 ft, what is around 12000 m, so it fly higher than airliner after shot down.

its propably to avoid flying into the parts and pieces comming off of its "target". it circles around in the area after all after MH-17 goes down.

they said the SU-25 can temporarily achieve 10.000 meters, but isnt 12.000 questionable?. that it perhaps was another type of fighter?.

arpakola wrote:
Dig this ,the "rebels/separatist" have shot down the plane & there is zero relation to BRICS .

Regular wrote:

NickM wrote:
The plane that got shot down was Malaysian . Naturally the pilot did not receive as much training as say British Airways pilots do . So they are basically incompetent . A missile was fired & the pilot was unable to dodge it . Why is it that BA or Lufthansa or KLM aircrafts that fly over that same airspace do NOT get shot down ?

Hahahahahha almost spilled my gray goose:D how in the hell you can dodge missile coming bellow You with an airliner ? Passengers would be turned into smash from steep dive:D haha I know I shouldn't laugh, I'm bad and cruel person

Vann7 wrote:

NickM wrote:

arpakola wrote:
Dig this ,the "rebels/separatist" have shot down the plane & there is zero relation to BRICS .

it was a FALSE FLAG attack.
With the full knowledge of your Terrorist pile of shit government.
You don't send civilians airplanes into the middle of a war ZONE... GO DIG that up in your place.
Specially when the Ukraine airforce is losing planes every day over the same zone.. So regardless
if Rebels have manpads or not.. You dont send civilians planes over a war zone PERIOD.

And is questionable who fired the missiles.. because Rebels have nothing to win doing that.. neither Russia.
But Ukraine have everything to win.. if they use the event to blame the Rebels.

Actually Russia released today satelite images that proof Ukraine have BUKS defenses close to the zone the plane crashed.. but evidence that an Ukrainian SU-25 plane was chasing the Malasyan plane.

The US AIRPACE aviation federal commission banned all flights over Ukraine airspace of American airliners.
This is the way it have to be done.. But Ukraine not only keep it open ..but allowed the malasyan plane to fly exactly the same zone their planes were falling non stop.  SO clearly the Nazi Government that your Terrorist country finance with american tax dollar and you support killed the 300 passengers.  United States is the biggest terrorist organization in the world.. Not happy with financing coups for decades creating civil wars ,even in democratic government, causing misery to millions ,not happing with Invasions of other nations killing millions based on weapons of mass lies.. is now replacing their armies with Middle east jihadist and Supporting Alqaeda and Isis in the middle east. Financing them and giving them weapons..

Go a see by yourself the terrorist Scum leaders that represent your nation..
and you are proud of.. American Generals with Alqaeda friendly Terrorist in Syria..





make no mistake those Jihadist shell with mortars cities of civilians that support the Syrian government almost every day. and killing civilians women and children almost every week.  FSA which Obama calls moderates ,have disbanded and joined either Alnusra terrorist group or ISIS.. But of Course such small details Dumb americans will never be told by their Brainwashing media.

US Special forces and military Generals are not there without knowledge of the White House and pentagon. same way when McAin a Senator was caught shaking hands with Popular terrorist who dedicated to kidnap people for money.. they are sent there by the Pentagon to help make more effective Terrorism in Syria. Now not happy with the destruction of 3 years supporting terrorist in Syria ,Obama asking for 500 more millions to continue murdering more civilians women and children.. and use terrorism as a tool to force the Syrian Government to surrender their nation to them. And now supporting NeoNazis in Ukraine .First US congress finance violence in kiev to overthrow a democratically elected President and later they help the illegitimate nazi junta to stay in power ,by using their army to bomb indiscriminately civilians womens and children. How can you don't feel ashamed of that?   



just google it.. marines against joining side with Alqaeda

https://i.imgur.com/yelMuwQ.jpg

 
As a matter of fact there are many american ashamed of living there.. and have quit their citizenship ..

Record number of Americans give up citizenship
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101406922#.

For the only reason the number is not in the millions is because american are brainwashed dumb like you.
That live in a bubble of fantasy ,thinking they live in the land of freedom and democracy and that the government cares about you . Others simply have no choice and need to stay for economical reasons.

Who wants to live in a country like that who support terrorism and is police state ,with a tyrannical government that consider your life worthless? Obama today have the same Powers of Kim Jong-un  in North Korea. He can by the finger arrest any American without a trial ,and either murder him or arrested forever under the patriot act.. without opportunity for justice.. as long your kenyan President believe you represent a problem for their power . In US elections are rigged too ..  No such thing as democracy..  go read about the fraud of voting machines..

United States  long time ago lost its course. Is the number 1 state sponsor of terrorism and second to Israel,They even kill their own citizens as they did in 9/11. To later blame it in talibans hiding in caves in afganistan.    
US could be ahead in many technology and entertainment but Is totally corrupted Nation ,and it will get Worse. once US start a major war ,as it will , weather against IRAN or Syria or CHina or Russia. they have hundreds of concentration camps [FEMA CAMPS] through all US cities to keep americans who protest there indefinitely. USA is moving to a pure Facism ,totalitarian State ,with zero rights ,zero freedoms ,zero privacy ,while the government takes the role of parenthood of your children... Have fun with that..